The Spy Law That Big Tech Wants To Limit (bloomberg.com) 26
Top tech companies are mounting a push to limit how US intelligence agencies collect and view texts, emails and other information about their users, especially American citizens. From a report: The companies, including Alphabet's Google, Meta Platforms and Apple, want Congress to limit Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as they work to renew the law before it expires at the end of the year, according to three people familiar with the discussions. There is a growing bipartisan consensus in Congress to not only renew the law but to make changes in response to a series of reports and internal audits documenting abuses. That's left the tech industry optimistic that broader reforms will get through Congress this time, according to two lobbyists who asked not to be identified relaying internal discussions.
The law, passed by Congress in 2008 in response to revelations of warrantless spying on US citizens by the Bush administration, granted sweeping powers that have been criticized over the years for different reasons. Civil liberties groups think more privacy protections are needed. Former President Donald Trump and his allies claim that spying powers enable intelligence agencies to conspire against conservatives. "Reforms are needed to ensure dragnet surveillance programs operate within constitutional limits and safeguard American users' rights, through appropriate transparency, oversight and accountability," said Matt Schruers, president of the tech trade group Computer & Communications Industry Association, which counts Apple, Google, Meta and Amazon among its members. Intelligence agencies say Section 702 is an essential tool that has generated critical information on the espionage and hacking activities of countries such as China and contributed to the successful drone strike that killed al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri last year.
The law, passed by Congress in 2008 in response to revelations of warrantless spying on US citizens by the Bush administration, granted sweeping powers that have been criticized over the years for different reasons. Civil liberties groups think more privacy protections are needed. Former President Donald Trump and his allies claim that spying powers enable intelligence agencies to conspire against conservatives. "Reforms are needed to ensure dragnet surveillance programs operate within constitutional limits and safeguard American users' rights, through appropriate transparency, oversight and accountability," said Matt Schruers, president of the tech trade group Computer & Communications Industry Association, which counts Apple, Google, Meta and Amazon among its members. Intelligence agencies say Section 702 is an essential tool that has generated critical information on the espionage and hacking activities of countries such as China and contributed to the successful drone strike that killed al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri last year.
ConSPirACY theoriEs (Score:1, Troll)
> Top tech companies are mounting a push to limit how US intelligence agencies collect and view texts, emails and other information about their users, especially American citizens.
Why is slashdot spreading harmful misinformation. It's a conspiracy theory that the American government is spying on American citizens. This harmful propaganda nee.. wait, this isn't a theory and we let this happen?
Maybe they don't want government in their stash? (Score:2, Interesting)
Makes me wonder if these companies just don't want government in their telemetry data stash. Of course, they love fighting this stuff in the US because it is good PR, but when it comes to China, Iran, Russia, or other places, it seems like they don't do anything but say "thank you, may I have another", as they happily fork all this data over to the local country intel departments without a single word of protest.
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The fact is Bush II did more to socialize this country since FDR. Medicare part D that just gave cash to the drug dealer. Homeland Security that is the definition of the socialist nanny state. Mass secret surveillance with no ability for the citizen to defend themselves.
What no one talks about is the cost. Yes, it provides low skilled jobs.
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if the government does this against the law, then does the presence or absence of the law doesn't matter?
Who has more power? (Score:1)
So we will see who has more power: The deep state - i.e. entrenched federal agencies who want FISA to continue letting them stomp on people's rights? Or the big tech companies, with their ability to buy politicians wholesale?
Either way, citizens are not actually in focus. it's all about power and/or money.
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Also the conspiracy that FISA is being used to target conservatives is just a story told to gather in the loyal voters. If FISA is being used on citizens then it's being used on them regardless of what their political stripes are. But it's always a good rallying cry to claim you're the aggrieved victim.
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Rather obvious their properly encrypted competition is taking their customer base, which is why Google and others are irritated about their 702 handcuffs. You're right. This is about money.
should not exist (Score:2)
The US Government should not be able to spy on its own citizens. I suppose the argument is that this was necessary for a short time after 9-11, not sure I buy that. But in 2023 that investigation is long over and extending this spying is just wrong.
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Technically, the spying between a foreign national and a US citizen is allowed by FISA - with the warrant of course - however spying between a set of only US citizens is not allowed. Ie, if Al Quaeda were sending instructions to a sleeper cell within the US, some of whom are citizens, most people would agree that is a reasonable use of intelligence tools. "But they're spying on _ordinary_ citizens!" some might say, except that the law doesn't define "ordinary citizens" here even if politics might.
The problem isn't really the FISC, it's the FBI (Score:5, Insightful)
The worst example of FISC abuse we know of is Crossfire Hurricane which lead to the FBI and DoJ officials bypassing the CIA and DNI to introduce the Steele Dossier before the court. The court is a rubber stamp most of the time, but they're generally used to dealing with the CIA, NSA and DIA who have extremely rigid internal regulations on "US Persons data." Crossfire Hurricane would have been a career-ending move at those agencies because of how badly the FBI wiped its collective ass with rules of evidence and disclosing material defects in probable cause to the court.
But as usual, the FBI broke the law and no one got prosecuted because the DoJ doesn't prosecute the employees of its golden haired child. The agency is legendary for how it can get away with literal murder compared to most federal agencies (what they did to Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge would have got most cops and agents outside the FBI prosecuted).
The FBI isn't really a part of the US IC. It's a partial member and not held to the same regulations, but there is an easy legislative fix: all FBI OIG reports should be sent to DHS for follow up criminal investigatory review.
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The FBI isn't really a part of the US IC. It's a partial member and not held to the same regulations, but there is an easy legislative fix: all FBI OIG reports should be sent to DHS for follow up criminal investigatory review.
It's interesting and ironic that right-wing extremists would call for oversight of the FBI but be vehemently against similar oversight for local police. As has always been the case throughout history, core principles tend to be malleable to fit one's current personal interests and ideologies.
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It's interesting and ironic that right-wing extremists would call for oversight of the FBI but be vehemently against similar oversight for local police. As has always been the case throughout history, core principles tend to be malleable to fit one's current personal interests and ideologies.
Not at all. Having lived in small towns, where such "people" end up, I can assure you that they want very tight oversight of the local police. The trick is, they will be providing that oversight.
In other words, if the feds are keeping an eye on the local cops, they might notice that the local cops are terrified of the goons living on the compound outside of town, with all the guns, and just do what they're told.
It's all internally consistent with their world view.
Just let the whole thing die. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's been more than two decades now since 9/11. And it's well past time to terminate all of the hysterics and overreactions. There will never be another 9/11. And that's not because of FISA, the TSA, DHA, ICE, the "war on terror," or any of the other post-9/11 dipshittery. If you truly believe otherwise, please contact me because I have a supply of magic tiger-repelling rocks and you should really buy one to protect against tiger attacks. How do you know they work? Well, I'm here typing this, aren't I? I couldn't post on slashdot from the inside of a tiger's stomach, could I? So you can clearly see that my magic rocks work. Buy one!
What made another 9/11 impossible is 9/11 itself. Now that a breached cockpit no longer means chilling on the beach in Cuba for a week until the state department arranges an Air Canada charter, but certain death along with everyone in whatever building the hijacker has targeted; the passengers themselves will never allow the cockpit to be breached again. There are plenty of documented incidents where someone tried, and got themselves a passenger-induced beat down for their efforts. In some cases, the would-be hijacker has even been killed... either with a crushed windpipe or simply bludgeoned to death... by that beat down session. 9/11 is just not going to happen again.
So just let the whole thing die already. FISA, the PATRIOT act, DHS, TSA, the whole bloody lot of the post-9/11 hysteria is well past its sell-by date. Terminate and disband the lot of them. We'll get by just fine, like we did for the 200+ years of the country's history before 2001. And nothing of any value will be lost.
Opt-in to collection (Score:2)
Yeah. (Score:2)
They think only *they* should be spying on their customers.
They should just stop (Score:2)
There is no reason to renew FISA, in any incarnation.