EPA Said To Propose Rules Meant To Drive Up Electric Car Sales Tenfold (nytimes.com) 179
The Biden administration is planning some of the most stringent auto pollution limits in the world, designed to ensure that all-electric cars make up as much as 67 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the country by 2032, The New York Times reported, citing two people familiar with the matter. From the report: That would represent a quantum leap for the United States -- where just 5.8 percent of vehicles sold last year were all-electric -- and would exceed President Biden's earlier ambitions to have all-electric cars account for half of those sold in the country by 2030. It would be the federal government's most aggressive climate regulation and would propel the United States to the front of the global effort to slash the greenhouse gases generated by cars, a major driver of climate change. The European Union has already enacted vehicle emissions standards that are expected to phase out the sale of new gasoline-powered vehicles by 2035. Canada and Britain have proposed standards similar to the European model.
At the same time, the proposed regulation would pose a significant challenge for automakers. Nearly every major car company has already invested heavily in electric vehicles, but few have committed to the levels envisioned by the Biden administration. And many have faced supply chain problems that have held up production. Even manufacturers who are enthusiastic about electric models are unsure whether consumers will buy enough of them to make up the majority of new car sales within a decade. The action from the E.P.A. is likely to hearten climate activists, who are angry over the Biden administration's recent decision to approve an enormous oil drilling project on federal land in Alaska. Some inside the administration argue that speeding up a transition to renewable energy, with most Americans driving electric vehicles, would lessen demand for oil drilled in Alaska or elsewhere.
At the same time, the proposed regulation would pose a significant challenge for automakers. Nearly every major car company has already invested heavily in electric vehicles, but few have committed to the levels envisioned by the Biden administration. And many have faced supply chain problems that have held up production. Even manufacturers who are enthusiastic about electric models are unsure whether consumers will buy enough of them to make up the majority of new car sales within a decade. The action from the E.P.A. is likely to hearten climate activists, who are angry over the Biden administration's recent decision to approve an enormous oil drilling project on federal land in Alaska. Some inside the administration argue that speeding up a transition to renewable energy, with most Americans driving electric vehicles, would lessen demand for oil drilled in Alaska or elsewhere.
some of the most stringent auto pollution limits i (Score:3)
And that's for ALL light vehicles where the US has this strange exception for pick up trucks.
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Hey there's 195 countries in the world. It still meets the definition of "some of the most stringent" ;-)
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Re: some of the most stringent auto pollution limi (Score:2)
Probably a combination of farmers being heavily dependent on them, and the US being the world's largest food exporter both in terms of volume and per-capita.
Re: some of the most stringent auto pollution lim (Score:2)
The funny part is that farms are probably the perfect opportunity for electrification of their mobility. The vehicles arenâ(TM)t driving that far, and plugging them in at night would be no big deal. Thanks to that commie plot from the mid 20th century known as rural electrification.
Re: some of the most stringent auto pollution li (Score:3)
Farm vehicles are a terrible choice for EV conversion currently. The towing capacity of EVs is terrible, the range drop-off is extreme with any additional weight.
I'd also worry a bit about safety in a farm environment... the current crop of battery packs don't seem like they could take a hit, and farm trucks get the shit beat out of them. That may be me blowing that out of proportion, but I've seen enough punctured bodies on trucks to know you couldn't just distribute one large flat pack through the body to
Re: some of the most stringent auto pollution li (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, farmers trying to reach their maize-field 200 miles away.
This is some epic level ignorance, here. No, the farmer isn't driving 200 miles to get to the cornfield, but his tractor is pushing or pulling heavy implements, and those implements may take 100s of horsepower to operate properly, depending on size and task. Have you ever seen corn being harvested? [youtube.com] They do that all day long for weeks at a time. Batteries can't keep up, and shorter duty cycles to account for charge time aren't going to be acceptable. You'd need even more equipment (and the existing diesel ones cost $800k). It's (currently) a terrible candidate for electrification.
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Probably a combination of farmers being heavily dependent on them, and the US being the world's largest food exporter both in terms of volume and per-capita.
You mean TPS Report farmers in suburban business parks?
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Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:3)
Unless you make it illegal to burn gas. Then you will have a different problem.
Re:Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:5, Insightful)
There will be a point where the percentage of EVs on the road reaches a critical level where operating gas stations will become less profitable than other uses for the land that gas stations currently occupy. This will result in a vicious cycle (from the point of view of gas hogs I guess) where people on the margin will be more likely to choose an EV for their next vehicle purchase because finding gas stations will become less and less convenient, and the product mix that auto makers offer to the public will trend more to EVs because that is what people will be wanting to buy, and filling stations will become more expensive and less and less convenient to find. "Rural America" will have to figure it the fuck out because you can't run your F150 on Copium. The role of government here is nudging the market to that tipping point.
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"Rural America" will have to figure it the fuck out because you can't run your F150 on Copium.
Ethanol conversion. Farmers will make that ethanol by diverting their produce from the food market to fuel production.
Re:Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:5, Insightful)
Which seems more likely to you:
A. paying to convert their light-duty vehicles (passenger car, light truck, van, etc.) to run on E100 while having no manufacturer support for it; then also converting acres of land that was producing a crop that could be sold for revenue into crops that can be used as feedstock for ethanol production; then also buying, permitting, installing, inspecting, getting licensure from whatever local regulatory authority that has jurisdiction, and operating the equipment and facilities necessary to create the ethanol (or pay to have it made) and store it on-site;
or
B. buy a BEV and $500 charger when the next replacement interval comes around, which carries tax incentives, at their farm which probably already has had reliable electrical infrastructure since the 1930s and doesn't require squat in the way of permitting or hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars of capital cost.
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Which seems more likely to you
A
They don't have to "pay to convert". It's simple. Most farmers are pretty handy and could do it themselves. All that other stuff about setting up for ethanol production? It's in place already, thanks to E10 gas.
buy a BEV and $500 charger
Why don't you put down the price of that BEV? It's not like they throw one in free with every $500 charger.
Re: Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:2)
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Ethanol is definitely terrible. You forgot about green diesel though, that's very slightly more energy dense than diesel, and also more fuel system compatible than transesterified biodiesel. However ethanol is also easy to make, and if you don't mind that it has methanol in it (don't drink it or get it on your skin, no big) that's relatively easy to get working in an old school gasser. Instructions on how to build the facilities [nrel.gov] were provided by the government (ISTR a much older pub on the subject specifica
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Farm equipment largely runs on diesel
The target of these rules are "passenger vehicles". Farm equipment will get a pass on trucks and tractors. Or city folks don't eat.
And that farmers F350 that he drives into town with? Probably property of the farm corporation and as such not a "passenger vehicle".
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The farmer has giant buildings with tons of space for solar arrays to feed his electric tucks and tractors for free.
So, I posted a link above to a corn harvesting video. In that video are a pair of 550hp (~435kW) combines, that typically work all day long. If we define a "day" as 8 hours that's about 3.5MWh a piece. If 1MW solar = 4 acres, your hypothetical farmer would need about 14 acres of solar panels with 8 hours of good sunlight per day to run each combine. That's a lot of fucking roof.
Re:Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:5, Interesting)
The funny thing about this argument is I don't know of a rural location without power making BEVs a low hassle choice if living rural. None of this bullshit about only having off street parking. About 50% of my rural neighbors already have atleast one BEV.
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I grew up in a rural area, and most of my family still lives in a rural area.
About 90% of them would have almost no issue switching to an EV today. All it would take is installing a car charger at home, and I suspect even then, most of them could do 110V charging.
The few that can't have commercial reasons.
Mentally, I'm not sure. Trucks are a large part of the rural identity. Will the identity shift as big trucks become more and more costly and inconvenient to use? Or are they going to revolt agai
Re:Rural America Says 'Dream On' (Score:4, Interesting)
About 90% of them would have almost no issue switching to an EV today. All it would take is installing a car charger at home, and I suspect even then, most of them could do 110V charging.
90% of the folks who will do Level 2 charging, at home, with 220V outlet will not need a "charger".
Most EVs come with an EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment), which you can plug into a NEMA 14-50 outlet and get decent charging speed. You need a "charger" installed at home, if you want fancy features, like Time-Of-Use charging (especially if your car doesn't provide scheduled charging features), WiFi control of charging, fancy usage graphs, etc. In some cases, a hard-wired charger installation will also give you extra amperage, beyond the capabilities of the car supplied EVSE.
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with 220V outlet will not need a "charger".
"Chargers" come with other benefits. What we will see in the electrification of the household is that what was previously a dumb flow of electrons will start becoming intelligent as people look for solutions that don't require a service upgrade.
You don't need a charger to charge a car. You need a charger to load balance your house, take advantage of off-peak rates, use your EV as a battery pack for solar panels, or better still turn your EV into a generator to keep the lights on in your house when the power
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There will be a point where the percentage of EVs on the road reaches a critical level where operating gas stations will become less profitable than other uses for the land that gas stations currently occupy.
Gas stations make most of their profits selling cigarettes, beer, junk food and what not. In fact, as more gas stations start adding EV chargers, there probably will be more profits to be made in selling snacks and smokes to people looking to kill time while their vehicle sits for a half hour or so.
At some point it may not be profitable to keep up with the maintenance costs of having fuel tanks in the ground, but it's a safe bet the gas stations themselves will still be there.
I don't think it matters what rural America says (Score:4, Insightful)
Rural America has a lot of voting power but that only matters if they're not caught up in cultural war and social issues. If you can distract them with those you can keep them from voting for anything else. And EVs won't become a culture War issue because the driving factor of the culture War is media empires owned by people who are going to benefit financially from the shift to electric vehicles.
That's the problem with becoming a single issue voter on social issues. You give up pretty much everything else
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Rural America has a lot of voting power
Yeah, but they waste that power by electing the same idiots into office again and again.
The problem isn't who they elect (Score:3)
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This isn't coming down from the environmentalists. The environmentalists want public transportation not cars.
I hope they want *electric* public transportation. At this point, non-electric public transportation is worse than driving a single-occupancy car, on average.
You see, cars have gotten a lot more efficient recently, whereas buses really haven't. A large percentage of cars are either electric or plug-in hybrid these days. When run on battery, these things are incredibly energy-efficient. As a result, a 40-passenger CNG bus doesn't break even compared with single-passenger use of a Tesla Model 3 until it h
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25% full is pretty low for many urban areas, considering at peak every seat may be filled and the aisles too.
That also appears to be masking quite a bit of variety. A natural gas bus, hybrid bus, partially-electric via pantograph, or 30-year old diesel are going to have some pretty different specs. Indeed, the original source for the stats you cite state as much:
Great care should be taken when comparing modal energy intensity data among modes. Because of the inherent differences among the transportation modes in the nature of services, routes available, and many additional factors, it is not possible to obtain truly comparable national energy intensities among modes. These values are averages, and there is a great deal of variability even within a mode
https://tedb.ornl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/TEDB_Ed_40.pdf#page=69 [ornl.gov]
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25% full is pretty low for many urban areas, considering at peak every seat may be filled and the aisles too.
Where did that 25% come from? To beat BEV cars, a 40-passenger bus has to be more like 83% full, and a Sprinter van 66% full, and that has to be the average, not just for the busiest leg. So they might be more efficient at peak times, but most of the time, they aren't.
That also appears to be masking quite a bit of variety. A natural gas bus, hybrid bus, partially-electric via pantograph, or 30-year old diesel are going to have some pretty different specs. Indeed, the original source for the stats you cite state as much:
Of course, but if ignoring any differences caused by vehicle age, the CO2 emissions between various models of non-electric bus aren't really that big [ucsusa.org]. I mean sure, 17% reduction over the last couple of decades is great, but it pales in comp
Will buy what is there (Score:4, Insightful)
Right now the biggest impediment to EV adoption is cost. Tesla promised a model in the low $30k range, but still only sells above 40k. There are a few EV for sale under 30. We have a lot of Trucks above $50.
I think we are going to see a lot of cost of ownership advantages to EV. I think the aggressive warranties now in place for conventional cars reflect the need to compete against that reality. But what is going to make the change is what always does. Regulation.
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A quick google search shows the Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Bolt EV, and the Chevy Bolt EUV are the only models under $30k.
On the other hand, the average new vehicle price is almost $50k these days.
I suspect the biggest problem will be urban. That's where there's more renters, and we aren't set up for g
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> Same report says average EV price is around $65k
There's a couple of $100K+ models in there skewing that average. Out of 107 vehicles [insideevs.com], 67 models (62%) of them are under $65K.
From that price list the average price is $70,723 so if we use that as our breakover point, 72 models (67%) are "below average."
That's because 24 models (22%) are $100K+
The average price for a new vehicle in 2022 was $48K [coxautoinc.com]. 42 of the 107 models in the above list (39%) are cheaper than that.
Sure, like-for-like EVs carry a modest premi
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But urban areas are the best suited for pushing for better public transport. Add to this EV powered delivery services, rental and sharing services and you can still get good mobility without even stressing much the grid.
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On the other hand, the average new vehicle price is almost $50k these days.
All that means is that the segment of the population that can afford to buy a new vehicle tend to go for the pricier models. It makes sense when you realize most Americans buy their cars on credit and you're more likely to have excellent credit if you're in a high income bracket in the first place. Folks with lower incomes might love to have a brand new $16k Nissan Versa, but if only B and C lenders want to work with you, the higher interest rates can push even an affordable vehicle out of your budget.
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The first part of your statement is true and a MASSIVE problem. Even Jeep has a nice EV product in the EU -- they don't sell it here. VW doesn't sell the ID3 here. etc.
But I don't think it's because people are resistant to EVs. It because people will buy the bigger more expensive cars here. Why sell anything where the margin is (making up some numbers here) 5% when you could sell a slightly lower number of cars where the margin is 20%? It just doesn't make sense for a rational company.
Until there's a
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Re:Will buy what is there (Score:5, Informative)
"It caught on" mainly because the government mandated platinum ball filled catalytic converters in all 1976 (I believe, I was young then...) model year cars. They changed the gas pump shape so the old gas pumps wouldn't fit in unleaded cars. People still put the leaded gasoline in the unleaded vehicles, wrecking their catalytic converters for a nice exorbitant replacement of those platinum balls. That's an aside though. My dad did auto claims back then and I got to see some of that crap first hand.
The real reason unleaded gasoline caught on was that finding an American vehicle that could achieve even 20mpg before 1976 was really, really hard. The oil price shocks and resultant increases in the price of gas, gas lines, even/odd rationing, etc etc meant people got rid of the old boat-shaped sub-15mpg vehicles en masse at roughly the same time. You had a hard time finding them in the aftermarket - no one wanted them. These were the days of Japanese vehicles taking over the US market because they could build a vehicle that achieved 25mpg, and sometimes above that. The US carmakers tried to adapt, dragged ass doing it, and Chrysler almost went under in the late 70s as a result of this, having invested in significant plant to produce land yachts just before the switch.
The bottom line was that the leaded to unleaded switch was subsumed under a much bigger geopolitical problem. This time, no such luck..
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"It caught on" mainly because the government mandated platinum ball filled catalytic converters in all 1976
It caught on because the government mandated a transition to the phase out of lead. Whether people wreaked their cars or not is irrelevant. It was a supply side regulation, not a consumer regulation. You can't put lead in your car if the refineries don't put lead in the gasoline which is what eventually happened through *regulation* not through market economics.
The devil is in the details (Score:2)
I am no math wizard, but that seems like 33% of new sales is anticipated to NOT be EVs. Likely dinosaur-juice-powered cars. You need a gasoline powered truck that can travel 1000 miles on a single tank, uphill, b
It'll take more than just some new regulations (Score:2)
The real bottlenecks to the adoption of electric vehicles are raw materials (for batteries and motors), new factories (for batteries and cars), and adequate charging stations. These problems will take a number of years to solve.
It's great that the government wants to support EVs, but it's wishful thinking to believe that new regulations will cause those EVs to magically appear.
Short-sighted (Score:2)
If the answer is from renewables, then my proposal would be to "build it and they will come." First build the infrastructure for renewables. The electricity won't go to waste. It'll replace coal and gas plants. And when there's no worries about electricity, provide more incentives for people to b
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"when there's no worries about electricity"
When it's too cheap to meter?
Didn't we do that already?
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China is clamping down on rare metal knowledge transfer and export
China is not unique in the world with knowledge on how to refine rare earth metals. This isn't some magical high tech industry where knowledge is concentrated in only a few countries in the world. It was pointless posturing by the Chinese government.
Now if China actually cease export of metals themselves, THEN we'd have a problem.
Metal supply (Score:3)
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the timing is what interests me (Score:2)
I have 3 ICEVs, and I need to budget when to cycle them out so I can get another round of ICEVs before political circumstances make them unobtainable. Based on current usage patterns none of the 3 are EV candidates, but that could change with either technological advancements or significant market manipulation.
I can propose something to help... (Score:2)
I can propose something that can help with this:
A set of laws that sunset in 20 years, which give tax benefits for serial hybrids. This way, while issues are dealt with with batteries and such, stuff like Porche's synthetic gasoline and other innovations can be used to allow a transition without much disruption, especially rural areas which are likely not going to see someone throwing in megawatt-tier wiring systems for a row of Superchargers anytime soon. It isn't perfect, but the perfect is the enemy of
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My brother in Christ, motors charging batteries, and those batteries being the main means of power, dates back to world war 1.
As someone who drives an Electric car... (Score:5, Interesting)
(2014 Nissan Leaf SL Driver)
This country isn't ready for even a statistically significant bump in electric cars on the road at this time. Charging infrastructure is already in crazy demand in many locations with hour long waits, and worse, halved charge rates due to over provisioning of power during peak times. For my car which should never travel outside a 50 mi. range, no worries, but for people who expect to be able take their cars on a road trip to see Grandma @ thanksgiving, they're going to be in for a rude awakening should the need to charge up mid drive arise.
Full electrification requires better power distribution, better batteries, better heat pumps, but most of all, way better charging infrastructure! We're getting there, but we're in the infancy of this tech. I'm glad I can charge at home because I absolutely loathe public charging. I had one weekend where 3 places in a row didn't work! I was about 1% from limp mode :( In my opinion, until every gas station is also a powerful electric charging station that can do 80 percent in 10 minutes on most cars, we're just not going to be able to be more than 30% electric in the next 6-7 years.
Don't get me wrong, I hope this post ages like milk, but we'll see.
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> 2014 Nissan Leaf SL Driver
Maybe your charging infrastructure experience is linked to the fact that your vehicle is incompatible with the vast, vast majority of it?
Not so say charging infrastructure isn't kinda shit, because it's definitely kinda shit, but it feels like maybe your experience isn't a great representation of the average.
=Smidge=
what are they selling to the bottom half (Score:3)
As far as I'm aware, ev's are in the higher price points.
What are they selling to the people who can afford only a $14k car?
Eco evangelists have annihilated the used car market with their games, so what are these people supposed to drive?
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What are they selling to the people who can afford only a $14k car?
A bus pass and Uber. You'll own nothing and be happy.
It was really nice to be part of a generation that was able to buy a brand new set of wheels for less than $16k (a Nissan Versa - that's the cheapest new car according to Google, and it's still a gas burner). Sorry, Gen Z.
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Rent everything, own nothing is the model all companies are striving for. Why make money once when you can bleed someone until they die? Its a HORRIBLE horrible model, I hate the fact that everyone is jumping on this bandwagon - Even cars (BMW, looking at you.... and the other manufacturers are following along).
I agree, I feel terrible for the people coming into their own now.
Can't buy a house? (Score:3)
If you are complaining that you can't afford to buy a house, just wait until the same number of people can't afford to buy a car, any car.
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If Ultron was real, he would look at humans use of oil and say "You were given the richest bounty of cheap chemicals in the entire universe, and you use it to power a car to drive a mile to the store. You don't deserve these gifts."
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I am looking forward to see you carrying 30 LBS of stuff from the store for a mile, on foot.
That's not even 14kg. Anyone who isn't geriatric or crippled could do this easily. Indeed, many people do it every day, even in modern western countries.
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That's not even 14kg. Anyone who isn't geriatric or crippled could do this easily. Indeed, many people do it every day, even in modern western countries.
While your milk spoils, your vegetables wilt, and your eggs get cracked, sure. Plus 30 lb/14 kg seems like a lowball number for say 6 or 7 bags of groceries. Sorry, but most of us have no interest in pretending like we live in a third-world country, we put a higher priority on our own families' food safety and quality.
Re:Good. (Score:4, Insightful)
> Oil is our ONLY SOURCE of petrol chemicals.
I guess you can't believe what you read on slashdot
Renewable Energy From Algae? - Slashdot 2004
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Boeing Helping to Develop Algae-Powered Jet - 2007
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Re: Good. (Score:2)
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> Oil is our ONLY SOURCE of petrol chemicals.
I guess you can't believe what you read on slashdot
Renewable Energy From Algae? - Slashdot 2004
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Boeing Helping to Develop Algae-Powered Jet - 2007
https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Literally none of that is what the OP was talking about and you're only re-inforceing the OP's point. We should be doing alternative things to generate energy like those you linked and saving oil for petrochemicals for which there is no current alternate source.
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The fact that you bolded "chemicals" as if that enhances your argument shows you don't know what you're talking about.
This is slashdot. It's your right to argue on the incorrect side so go wild.
Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oil is our ONLY SOURCE of petrol chemicals.
And what are the refineries going to do with the lighter fractions that are produced in the process? Burn them in flare stacks? They used to do this with propane until a few smart people figured that they could bottle and sell the stuff.
What will happen as EV use increases is that the demand for gasoline will go down. Then it's either burn it as waste or drop the price until it sells. The people with IC vehicles may end up with very cheap fuel.
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"The people with IC vehicles may end up with very cheap fuel."
Maybe. Maybe not.
Even if the fuel is practically free, but the "sin" taxes for using it will be 9000%, and someone's got to pay to haul it to you, because finding a gas station will be impossible as many cities already aren't issuing new permits for them, and are pressuring existing ones to close.
Re: Good. (Score:2)
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but the "sin" taxes for using it will be 9000%
Then nobody buys it and up the flare stack it goes.
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And what are the refineries going to do with the lighter fractions that are produced in the process? Burn them in flare stacks?
Use Fischer-Tropsch synthesis [google.com] to create longer hydrocarbon chains and burn any excess hydrogen.
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Why are people ignoring the fact that these numbers are for NEW vehicles? The existing ICE vehicles will continue to need gasoline for many years in the future. It's not like every gas station will be out of business January 1, 2030.
The goal is to have 67% of all NEW vehicles as EV by 2030-ish. That still leaves 33% that will use gasoline after 2030. ICE vehicles are not going away completely but hopefully the amount of gasoline burned will decrease. People that need special-purpose vehicles where EV i
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And what are the refineries going to do with the lighter fractions that are produced in the process?
Refineries are not a static concept. They evolve to meet the demands of a market. Most refineries specifically crack heavy stock into lighter stock. The only reason they don't go the opposite way is because it's more expensive to do so than the cost of selling the fuel on the market (thermal cracking especially is cheap, just add heat).
What will happen as EV use increases is that the demand for gasoline will go down. Then it's either burn it as waste or drop the price until it sells. The people with IC vehicles may end up with very cheap fuel.
Nope, it's literally the same thing refineries have been doing for over 100 years: Reconfigure their setup to make the most valuable products. By the way refineries serving t
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We can synthesize anything in petroleum, given enough energy. The efficiency of current synthetic hydrocarbon processes is not very good, though. The efficiency of the processes that produced the oil weren't great either, but they didn't have to be.
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Burning petroleum's akin to firing up a kitchen stove with bank notes
-D. Mendeleev
("To burn oil!.. You can fuel with money as well")
Burning gas to produce electricity is ‘stupid
-Francesco Starace, the CEO of power giant Enel
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> that investment in EVs was a terrible, terrible idea.
I leased a 2012 Chevy Volt. Leased because I didn't think it would hold it value. At the end of the lease the buy out price was $27K while the street price was $12K. I gave it back, it was crap anyway.
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Re: Remember when they told you (Score:3)
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> The point is, not one Tesla was used on a road trip, regardless of how many I saw. That means they still cant replace ICE right now.
Virtually all the cars I see at gas stations have license plates that match the state the gas station is in. Therefore, using your logic, ICE cars aren't suitable for longer road trips either.
Seriously yours might be the shittiest take I've seen. Good job. Quite impressive to stand out in a crowded field of shitty "EVs won't work" narratives.
=Smidge=
Re: Remember when they told you (Score:3)
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I take note of every tesla I see on the road. 1) their logo is weird and easy to spot 2) the car shape of every single one I saw is not the greatest, its like a c
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One of my friends bought a Chevy Bolt (I forget the model year, but it was pre-Covid) for his now ex-wife, while they were still married. He was really anxious to show it to me, and my impression of it was that it was $15k worth of car mated to $25k worth of batteries. Given the same budget, I'd rather have had two Corollas.
I'm sure he probably still thinks it's just sour grapes, because that kind of car is way beyond my budget.
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Yeah, everything in the Volt was lightened/cheapened. The Volt was average to below average, you'd think a company with 100 years of experience could make a decent interior, a car roof that didn't vibrate, etc.
Re: Remember when they told you (Score:2)
You're confusing the Bolt and the Volt. But both are great cars, IMO. Too bad the Volt is no longer made. Not sure what I would buy if mine died.
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Not confusing anything. The Bolt came after the Volt, and you can bet that some of the cheapening from the Volt made it to the Volt. I think $15K car on a $25K drive train sums it up. I guess it gets too expensive if you make it not a piece of crap, presumably until batteries get cheaper.
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Re:Let me fix the headline (Score:4, Insightful)
No one is forcing you to buy new. You have choices.
-sounds like FUD from a gas drinker.
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Is something wrong with your bicycle?.
Careful, your ableism is showing.
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Is something wrong with your bicycle?
Yeah, I don't have a death wish. I'd likely be done in either by the weather or a distracted/pissed off motorist.
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I'd likely be done in either by the weather or a distracted/pissed off motorist.
Consider moving to a first world country with proper infrastructure and people who aren't out to kill you for the lulz.
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That fix went too far. You're not being forced into any vehicle today or tomorrow. They just want to make it more difficult to buy a vehicle that runs on gasoline or diesel while working to provide reasonable alternatives.
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Well, except for all those incentive rules around BEVs already published and enshrined in legislative law that has "made in USA" requirements on the battery pack to qualify, but sure.
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my friend, half the country are currently buying groceries, gas, and paying utilities on credit cards. And a similar number are literally a single pay check away from being homeless. What you're seeing is consumer debt being used to offset the fact that the CoL is exceeding incomes. it's not sustainable, and at some point a tsunami of personal bankruptcies will be coming.
home prices are through the roof, mortgage rates are still above 6%, and an entire generation of 20-30 year olds are effectively priced
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SETTLE DOWN!
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HD trucking also delivers your mulch every spring. How else will you tow that big boat and camping trailer. I doubt your last riding mower or major appliance was delivered by a gas truck much less a hybrid or EV, it was probably in fact a diesel immune to all mpg regulations.
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what was the last thing you bought on amazon.