Meet the People Who Use 'Notion' To Plan Their Whole Lives (technologyreview.com) 119
An anonymous reader quotes a report from MIT Technology Review: Joshua Bergen is a very productive person. His secret is the workspace app Notion. Bergen, a product manager living in Vancouver, uses it to plan trips abroad in meticulous detail, with notes and timelines. He uses it to curate lists of the movies and TV shows he's watched, and records what he thought of them. It's also a handy way to keep tabs on his 3D-printing projects, map snowboarding runs, and quickly update his cute list of the funny things his kid has said. It might sound strange, but Bergen is one of a growing number of people using Notion, software intended for work, to organize their personal lives. They're using it in a myriad of different ways, from tracking their meditation habits and weekly schedules to logging their water intake and sharing grocery lists.
So why has a platform built to accommodate "better, faster work" struck such a chord when there are countless other planning apps out there? Part of the reason Notion has such a devoted fan base is its flexibility. At its heart, Notion is designed to combine the various programs a business might use for functions like HR, sales, and product planning in a single hub. It uses simple templates that let users add or remove features, and remote workers can easily collaborate on notes, databases, calendars, and project boards. This high level of customizability sets Notion apart from other work apps. It's also what's made it so popular among people looking to map out their free time. It started to gain traction around 2018 in YouTube's thriving productivity subculture, where videos of fans swapping time management tips and guides to organizing their lives regularly rack up millions of views.
Since then, its following has snowballed. More than 275,000 people have joined a dedicated subreddit, tens of thousands of users share free page templates in private Facebook groups, and TikTok videos advising viewers on how to make their Notion pages look pretty have been watched hundreds of millions of times. "You don't have to change your habits to how rigid software is. The software will change how your mind works," says Akshay Kothari, Notion's cofounder and chief operating officer. "I think that's actually been a big reason why you see so much love in the community: because people feel like the things they build are theirs." While platforms like Notion are great for people who enjoy feeling organized, spending too much time optimizing and organizing our lives can be counterproductive when we prioritize creating to-do lists over completing the actual tasks on them, says Gabriele Oettingen, a psychology professor at New York University. It's a phenomenon known as the planning fallacy.
Using Notion to track whether you're drinking enough water or going jogging, or using it to plan assignments, doesn't necessarily mean you're actually getting those things done. "In a way, Notion might help me to get structure, but it might not work to get me going," she says.
So why has a platform built to accommodate "better, faster work" struck such a chord when there are countless other planning apps out there? Part of the reason Notion has such a devoted fan base is its flexibility. At its heart, Notion is designed to combine the various programs a business might use for functions like HR, sales, and product planning in a single hub. It uses simple templates that let users add or remove features, and remote workers can easily collaborate on notes, databases, calendars, and project boards. This high level of customizability sets Notion apart from other work apps. It's also what's made it so popular among people looking to map out their free time. It started to gain traction around 2018 in YouTube's thriving productivity subculture, where videos of fans swapping time management tips and guides to organizing their lives regularly rack up millions of views.
Since then, its following has snowballed. More than 275,000 people have joined a dedicated subreddit, tens of thousands of users share free page templates in private Facebook groups, and TikTok videos advising viewers on how to make their Notion pages look pretty have been watched hundreds of millions of times. "You don't have to change your habits to how rigid software is. The software will change how your mind works," says Akshay Kothari, Notion's cofounder and chief operating officer. "I think that's actually been a big reason why you see so much love in the community: because people feel like the things they build are theirs." While platforms like Notion are great for people who enjoy feeling organized, spending too much time optimizing and organizing our lives can be counterproductive when we prioritize creating to-do lists over completing the actual tasks on them, says Gabriele Oettingen, a psychology professor at New York University. It's a phenomenon known as the planning fallacy.
Using Notion to track whether you're drinking enough water or going jogging, or using it to plan assignments, doesn't necessarily mean you're actually getting those things done. "In a way, Notion might help me to get structure, but it might not work to get me going," she says.
What a great ad disguised as news (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I want to try Notion.
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That's called a Slashvertisement. I hear they used to make good money posting those back in the day. I wonder if they still do?
Re:What a great ad disguised as news (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Do people actually DO this type thing??"
I know I'm on the other end of the spectrum....in that shy of having to book a flight in advance or book rooms to stay for a vacation in advance, I don't really plan my life longer than 5-6 hours in advance at the most.
I wake up and just go through my day doing things as they come along.
I rarely have any plans on any given week.
I mean, I wake up, I work and on the weekends...well, whatever comes along, I migh
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I have ADHD and do well with it when I can excessively plan my day like this. I’m not sure I’d like this tool though
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Re:What a great ad disguised as news (Score:5, Funny)
Now I want to try Notion.
That makes one of us!
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I don't. It looks like an ugly and less functional variant of Teams.
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Personally, I would compare it with OneNote. It seems to be a note taking app mixed with some kind of online wiki.
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Personally, I would compare it with OneNote. It seems to be a note taking app mixed with some kind of online wiki.
Yes, it's a notebook app, so Onenote, Evernote, etc are what to compare it against. I've done the comparisons. Notion has it's place, but Onenote beats it hands down.
Need to work offline and sync up when you next connect to the 'net? Need to do lots of hierarchy of sections and pages? Need more than 1 variable width &| 1 fixed with font on a page? Need more than 1 color on a page? Need to control alignment (L/R/C) on pages, as in more than 1? Do you need [Onenote like] "tag" or "icon markers" on item
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In my country, that is illegal.
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The corruption is everywhere in America.
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OneNote (Score:3)
does everything you need for that purpose and is free.
Re:OneNote (Score:4, Funny)
does everything you need for that purpose and is free.
Well, it's free except for the part about losing your soul to eternal damnation.
Re:OneNote (Score:4, Funny)
So is a text file. I use vim to edit that, it's free too.
For counting drinks whilst working, I just stack Lego bricks together. They serve as something to play with on a phone too. They're quite underated, just like vim and text files.
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I used to use OneNote but switched to Joplin for notes. It's open source, syncs with various clouds including your own NextCloud instance, and supports embedded images/PDFs.
The only real issue I have with it is that it uses Markdown, which is crap. Why do the crappiest things always seem to become the standard?
Re: OneNote (Score:2)
Markdown is easy. People like easy.
What do you suggest instead?
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To be fair I think part of the problem with Markdown is that it compiles to HTML, and HTML is crap. For example, there is no tab feature. You can emulate it by say using a monospace font and inserting non-breaking spaces, but for a note taking app when you just want to format a bit of text...
I looked at adding support for tabs but it's basically impossible. You can indent a line a bit but after that there is no way to make subsequent text align to anything. Well, maybe you could use a complex table or divs
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No, this isn't the problem with Markdown. HTML can do all the stuff you ask for.(*) The problem with Markdown (and ReStructured Text, and everything similar) is that plain text formatting is too ambiguous to do anything
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Markdown is easy...
Markdown sucks, because unlike HTML there is no standard. For example, I'm aware of at least 3 different ways to mark a code block, depending on which site/app I'm in. A painful example is to go use the Atlassian tools; they don't even use the same Markdown across their product line (because they bought the software but then didn't standardize before rolling the product out). Markdown also only works on very simple pages. Far too often when I'm forced to use Markdown, I have to break out HTML to make the pa
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The only real issue I have with it is that it uses Markdown, which is crap. Why do the crappiest things always seem to become the standard?
It serves a purpose, but not what you want, which sounds like proper typesetting.
There is an older, better standard for that. LaTeX. It can embed images and pdfs, and generate pdfs as a desired end result.
While many of us still prefer writing LaTeX in a normal text editor, there are more pretty clicky gui's available if so desired also.
If you want revision control and to push between locations, have it in a git repo and push/pull between them as desired.
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Let me look into Joplin, I have meant to get out of using Evernote for a long time. I tried a self-contained Javascript thing once (I forget what it is called), but it wasn't for me.
Thanks
I forgot about Evernote (Score:4, Interesting)
This reminded me that Evernote was a thing. I found out about Evernote when they put their logo on top of a building in Redwood City, and I got curious. I googled it, and went on with my life.
I guess there are two kinds of people in the world. People who like organizers, and used to like those little day-planner books and now they're using the digital version of that. Then there are the other kind of people who just remember stuff, or if it's really important jot it down. Like, if I have a doctor's appointment it's on a piece of paper in the kitchen so it's the first thing I see in the morning and I'm not forgetting. It's necessary because it's a break from routine and I might forget, but I'm certainly not jotting down notes for garbage day. It's Tuesday. Is your memory so shot you can't remember to make sure the cans are down or if that's not the case, you have some weird instinct that says garbage day isn't real unless it's in your day planner, which is now online because this is the 21st century? I don't get it.
The kinds of people who want to put their life in a day planner, or check in their grocery lists to a subversion repository? Have at it, guys. This stuff comes and goes, and I just don't get the need for it, or the desire. Evernote, BTW, is still a thing; but apparently they got ahead of themselves, did some layoffs and were recently acquired. Not sure about the building in Redwood City. I'll put a drive-by to check that on my TODO list... not.
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It's Tuesday. Is your memory so shot you can't remember to make sure the cans are down or if that's not the case, you have some weird instinct that says garbage day isn't real unless it's in your day planner, which is now online because this is the 21st century? I don't get it.
Not to mention using your brain is good for its health. Using an app instead of your memory may just mean your memory disappears faster.
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Or that it's freed up to remember stuff that matters more.
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You can train it, to some extent.
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I have adhd and getting things into a list so I can forget about them does free up some sort of limited resource for other things. It’s not like a hard drive, it’s more like saving state and putting a thread to sleep instead of letting it spin until it’s unblocked.
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This. If I need to do the One Important Thing I have to either set a trusted external interrupt to drive the event or sit in waiting mode. I *despise* days where I have the One Important Thing at 3:00 in the afternoon. Poof, the whole day is shot.
Your memory doesn't atrophy when organized (Score:2)
Using an app instead of your memory may just mean your memory disappears faster.
This is definitely not the case. It's like saying that once you buy a bike you suck at walking. I've been spontaneous and I've been organized. Being organized with a formal electronic system drastically improved my life. I personally use a simple Apple Notes + Apple Reminders with a lot of Siri.
My memory has improved because the art of noting something important and viewing it several times a day makes it stick a lot more. I remember all the important stuff just as well. The electronic system is fo
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Yes, it is one thing to use electronic aids to augment your brain. It is another to use them to replace it. I use a calendar for appointments and I make shopping lists myself or I inevitably forget things when I am at the store. I try to grab as many things as I can remember before I consult my list though - it is a backup, not a replacement.
My mother is 96 and has late stage Alzheimers. I can tell you not having any short term memory at all is not a pretty sight. I rely on technological supplements on
Re:I forgot about Evernote (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who remembers a LOT of stuff, I realized I am forgetting a lot of other stuff.
"It's Tuesday. Is your memory so shot you can't remember to make sure the cans are down[...]" - Well, in that particular example, I do remember very well that Wednesday is Garbage day, and Friday is recycling day, but I might not realize it's Wednesday or Friday until it's too late :)
Some people are more inclined towards practical things, such as birthday planning. My wife remembers all our acquaintances' names, birthday dates, important event dates, their relationship with each other as well as significant things that we did with them in the past. "Honey, remember when we visited our friends, the Smiths, three years ago, and their dog was sick, and their kid spilled his juice on that yellow carpet?" No, I have no idea what she's talking about, and I need quite some help to remember who the bloody hell the Smiths are. On the other hand, I could recite entire passages from movies we watched together years ago, while she can't recall most movies we watched, at all. We could watch a movie today, and watch it again a year from now, and she'll only vaguely remember a scene or two, the rest being as if she watched it for the first time.
(we complete each other beautifully that way)
My point is, people are different, and someone using an organizer is not necessarily dumb or inapt, they just might shine in other areas you might suck at.
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I automated the remembering of which bins go out on which days - now I get Telegram messages on the right days, but only if I forgot to but the bins out already. I figure that makes space for me to remember to do other stuff - and as a parent, you have to remember your own stuff, stuff to do with the household and stuff to do with your kids. A little extra space for those things is pretty handy ;-)
This is /. - if you can't get handy with some "key finder" BLE tags, OpenHab and an Telegram client, hand in yo
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That's actually neat :)
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Thanks - I thought so, but the wife seems very unimpressed ;-)
I'd just like my local council to make the schedules available by API and then I'm all good. I'm looking to scrape off their website in the meantime, but it's pretty nasty work.
Re: I forgot about Evernote (Score:2)
Re:I forgot about Evernote (Score:4, Interesting)
Note if you have ADHD or similar neurodiverse traits - then just remembering stuff is not very reliable. It's not great having a brain hardwired with 'out of sight, out of mind'. Also you never remember this when you are being told of something to remember, grr - or if you do and you go to make a note on your phone or notepad, the other person gets offended you are doing something else apart from devoting everything to what they are saying - so you learn from experience to not take notes when you should, then later you get moaned at for not doing it.
And paper lists are the solution. Digital lists, apps, etc, simply don't work. Because you have to open them up. And they're out of sight when they're not opened.
Appointments are actually something that devices do help with, because of the alerting functionality.
Also garbage day might be a fixed day, but alternating weeks are recycling or household waste, and that's never easy to remember. But you have a waste collection calendar from the council on the pinboard (a giant pinboard is a great investment) to check. Not an app.
Slashvertising! (Score:2)
It places the Notion in the basket . . . and then it realizes the Notion is free!
So what's the catch?
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In-app purchases!!
A diary that only lives as long as the VC funding. (Score:3)
Is it something he can self-host, for free? Or is it something in that nebulous "Cloud" that may or may not be there in 5 years when the makers decide they aren't getting the revenue they want from it? Imagine so much personal planning and details going up in smoke at a bankruptcy sale.
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Ah, but given his job description it's clear he's a PHB of some sort. Which makes the app entirely apt for him.
Autism App (Score:2)
Unsubscribe (Score:2)
Unsubscribe
There is free software for it (Score:2)
Emacs + org-mode
Pretty sure (from the amount of mail in their mailing list) they also have > 275000 users.
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I use zim https://zim-wiki.org/ [zim-wiki.org] with the journal plugin for the past 13 years to record my daily notes and thoughts, TODO lists, etc. It's open source, cross-platform, user friendly, and uses an open file format (a simple wiki format).
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FreePlane or OmniFocus / Outliner (Score:2)
Building a Second Brain (Score:1)
What a shit way to live (Score:2, Funny)
Who the hell would want to plan out every aspect of their life? Avoiding any spontaneity as it does not fit the plan.
This is definitely the type of person others avoid traveling with.
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Actually I love planning shit this way but I am a very spontaneous traveler. Once I’m through security there’s probably no list until it’s time to go back. I never visit famous landmarks because they usually blow the good stuff you discover.
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Went to Japan recently and I thought "pffft, stupid tourists, I'm better than this"
And in the end, my most memorable days are of when I visited touristic (or tourist-y) places. there's only so much you can do in Tokyo with no planning if you're just wandering around. It's just people, more people, and more people. And very tall buildings. But seeing tall buildings, riding the (very nice) trains, and getting crushed by a sea of people gets old after a couple of days.
"tourist places during low season" were th
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I did some things where there were tourists around in Japan but don’t recall ever standing in a line that was more than a few people deep. I know a bunch of people there so I always just do mostly whatever they think I should do and I rarely find myself surrounded by tourists. I don’t think I’ve ever been anywhere where it’s so bad locals don’t go there.
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Spontaneity and Planning aren't mutually exclusive. I have a dedicated 1hour window between 3 and 4pm to be spontaneous every day!
Jokes aside, there's a difference between planning *progress* and planning activities. Most of these people are doing the former, meticulously logging how they are going with things they are planning to do, not accounting for how they live their life or execute their day.
Re: What a shit way to live (Score:2)
When I saw "list of funny things my kid said", My first thought was, "A kid? Golly, women will sleep with anyone."
Does anybody really need more than VI for this? (Score:3)
Re: Does anybody really need more than VI for this (Score:5, Funny)
No, any text editor that handles org-mode will do. Fortunately, all the good ones do ;-)
Productivity porn (Score:2)
This sounds like (Score:5, Insightful)
some dataminers got together and thought "Let's make a day planner app for OCD people, so they voluntarily surrender even more detailed private data to us that regular people already do."
Careful when you slashvertise these days (Score:2)
The comments are gonna roast your product to oblivion.
Because people hate ads. And you just gave them something they loathe. Twice so if you're this blunt and ham-fisted in your attempt and don't even try to hide that you're just hawking your product. This is gonna backfire. Badly. Even if it was a good product.
People won't even try your product. They will just make snide comments and quips, knowing that this will result in upvotes because, as mentioned above PEOPLE HATE ADS.
Get the clue, folks. If you want
Emacs Org Mode runs ... (Score:2)
... circles around this.
Yeah, you need a degree to be able to use it, but therefore it's free (beer & speech) open source and runs on anything that uses electricity, including microcomputers from the steam age.
For an open source alternative (Score:2)
Last time I looked for an alternative (Notion doesn't have a Linux port) my top choice was Obsidian [obsidian.md] with the Kanban plugin [github.com]. Notes are taken in Markdown and it has some other good plugins [obsidian.md].
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Not actually open source, but (currently) free (as in money) and extensible with open source plugins. It's very good though.
Notion is like Atlassian Confluence and Treesheets (Score:2)
No doubt folks on the slashdots are familiar with Atlassian JIRA, and perhaps its sister tool Confluence. I didn't know Confluence had a mobile app [atlassian.com] until I looked for one today, and damn.
Notion looks an awful lot like both JIRA [notion.so], or another variation of JIRA [notion.so], and also Confluence [notion.so].
Notion functions a lot like Treesheets [treesheets.com], which I learned about here [slashdot.org]. Folks that have a problem with Notion might be happy with free, open-source Treesheets.
I've been using Remember the Milk [slashdot.org] personally for years which is $40/annually
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Yeah, but the web browser interface is plenty good enough methinks. That plus iOS/Android clients all seems plenty capable as an affordable tool to slice through life either individually or as a team.
I don't want to meet those people (Score:1)
and my diary is full for the next century.
But, but (Score:2)
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It's like installing a YouTube adblocker and then having sponsored segments in the video.
Now there's YouTube sponsor blocker... I wonder if we can have something like that for Slashdot, too. Something where, if enough people flag a story as "spam", it gets automatically blocked.
Mandatory XKCD (Score:1)
CGPGrey (Score:5, Insightful)
People need to learn to appreciate slowing down and not having to fill every minute of the day with being "productive".
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The difference between slow you and hyper productive me is that I understand you and respect your life enough not to tell you to speed up.
You might wanna add a note to your planning app to do some research if you're perhaps, actually, clearly, a self-absorbed, arrogant, passive aggressive, patronizing asshole who enjoys berating people by telling them how better you are than them - but that you're so up your own ass, you don't see how huge of an asshole you are.
Also, maybe add a note to check if you're into vulgar displays of status or self-worth.
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I misread this as Norton (Score:3)
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Ever tried uninstalling Norton? You better not make any other plans for the next couple days.
That's all well and good... (Score:2)
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Admittedly, mobile use isn't as easy as Notion, since Emacs does not like to coo
Agreeing with posts above... (Score:2)
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Try Notepad++, you'll never go back.
Yes, Notepad++ is free and I don't get a cut when you download and use it. I think this needs to be said, twice so considering the topic at hand.
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WTF ads? (Score:3, Funny)
It's so bad I'm pretty convinced it was written by an AI who didn't understand the subject matter.
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Seems we're more and more frequently seeing this kinda stuff on Slashdot. I'd expect it is some type of sponsored content ads. Though they would be violating FTC rules by not making such clear to readers.
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Good for the productive individual (Score:3)
False Feeling Of Productivity (Score:4, Interesting)
According to research, it's more likely these people just FEEL more productive than that they're actually productive. For certain personality types, making lists makes them feel more productive but even more so, makes them feel more in control. And checking things off the list is key to that feeling, as there's a little release of dopamine in doing so.
But that drive for dopamine doesn't increase productivity, it just drives the for more hits of the feel-good chemical. They take everything and break it into every possible step, allowing them to check more things off their list and thus get more hits of the good stuff. Where many of us would simply know, "I need to run that report.", they end up breaking that report into 30 different to-do items (taking additional time just to map out even a simple process that doesn't require that much detail), and then wasting far more time stopping to check off every piece along the way, so that they can feel that forward progress and get the chemical they crave.
It works for some and they feel more productive or are able to focus more because of it, and that's great. But they're not generally more productive than others, and often it's just a false sense of productivity. Apps like Notion, OneNote, Evernote, Trello, and many others capitalize on this behavior.
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But that drive for dopamine doesn't increase productivity, it just drives the for more hits of the feel-good chemical. They take everything and break it into every possible step, allowing them to check more things off their list and thus get more hits of the good stuff. Where many of us would simply know, "I need to run that report.", they end up breaking that report into 30 different to-do items (taking additional time just to map out even a simple process that doesn't require that much detail), and then wasting far more time stopping to check off every piece along the way, so that they can feel that forward progress and get the chemical they crave.
I find myself doing this when I'm high as fuck on edibles. It's no longer "Throw this piece of paper in the trash can." It's now the 15 steps required to stand up, pick up the paper, walk to the trash can, open it, etc etc. In the end nothing happens because the task now sounds too gargantuan to handle.
At first it was worrisome. Now I find I get a giddy little kick out of it when fucked up.
I have no idea what all that means in the bigger picture. It's probably some sort of sign I should be allowed to h
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According to research, it's more likely these people just FEEL more productive than that they're actually productive. For certain personality types, making lists makes them feel more productive but even more so, makes them feel more in control. And checking things off the list is key to that feeling, as there's a little release of dopamine in doing so.
As someone who's bought in on the idea of "personal knowledge management" and using todo apps to help organize tasks to a greater degree than the average person, I heartily agree that this is a real risk (I haven't used Notion though; I mostly use Todoist and Obsidian). Being busy without being productive is a huge drain and can be downright addictive. That said, I adopted these tools because I saw real deficiencies in how I was operating and have heard subsequent feedback indicating that my use of them has
Hey, quit talking about my wife! (Score:2)
...spending too much time optimizing and organizing our lives can be counterproductive when we prioritize creating to-do lists over completing the actual tasks on them...
This is my wife. She wants to have lists and dates on practically everything up to and including tasks that take longer to talk about and plan, than to just do the damn task. At least if she used Notion she would be using a far better tool than the combination of Sheets, Google Calendar, and Evernote she uses now.
And I say that having the displeasure of using Notion as our official wiki at work.
MediaWiki at home (Score:2)
I've been organizing my life with MediaWiki [mediawiki.org] installed on a local Linux PC for the past decade. It's free, it's powerful, and it's robust enough to run Wikipedia.
Please give Notion your entire life's data (Score:3)
There's no way I'd let Notion - or any company - track that kind of data of my life. I actively avoid it, knowing that plenty is done, but some is resisted.
Privacy isn't dead. People don't want privacy anymore, I guess.
So.....Onenote. (Score:2)
They have basically re-skinned Onenote and / or Evernote.
Proving once again you don't have to be smart, innovative, or creative in any way to make money in the app era. All you have to have is a name that's catchy to Gen Z and a desire for people to give you their data.
Thats an Ad! (Score:2)
Thats an Ad -Jimmy Valmer
Notion is not end to end secure (Score:2)
Notion is feature rich and I get anyone wanting to dump a lot of effort into setting it up. But when it comes to similar applications that you can trust to not hand your data over for routine inspection, your top picks are going to be Standard Notes and Joplin for provably private setup, with Notesnook a competitor that may or may not be as secure. Obsidian also gets a lot of attention as being more feature-rich and being highly suitable to a lot of stuff, but it's not secure by default. Apple's own note
My strategy (Score:2)
I have severe memory problems.
I manage by having the following at my fingertips, on both phone and computer, at all times:
* Google Calendar
* To-do list
* Grocery list
* E-mail
Only drawback is if Internet is down. That rarely happens to my phone and computer at the same time.
The rest of the time, anytime I become aware of something I need to remember, it goes onto one of these as appropriate.
I ask family members and others to send me any tasks, etc.
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Obviously a Slashdot editor modded me down.