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Transportation Businesses Power

Transition to EVs Cited as More Automakers Reduce Workforces (seattletimes.com) 148

Posted by EditorDavid from the downsizing-downside dept.
This February Ford cut 3,800 jobs, according to CNN, "citing difficult economic conditions and its major push toward electric vehicles... The veteran automaker said the layoffs were primarily triggered by its transition to electric vehicles, and a reduction in 'vehicle complexity.'"

Then in March GM also "unexpectedly cut several hundred jobs to help it trim costs and form a top-tier workforce to guide its transition to an all-electric car company," according to the Detroit Free Press — while later also announcing buyouts to try to "accelerate attrition." A spokesperson explained that GM wanted "to reduce vehicle complexity and expand the use of shared systems between its internal combustion engine and future electric vehicle programs."

Up next is Stellantis, the multinational automotive giant formed when Fiat-Chrysler merged with PSA Group in 2021. It's now "trying to cut its workforce to trim expenses and stay competitive," reports the Associated Press, "as the industry makes the long and costly transition to electric vehicles." Stellantis on Wednesday said it's offering buyouts to groups of white-collar and unionized employees in the U.S., as well as hourly workers in Canada. The cuts are "in response to today's increasingly competitive global market conditions and the necessary shift to electrification," the company said in a prepared statement.

Stellantis said it's looking to reduce its hourly workforce by about 3,500, but wouldn't say how many salaried employees it's targeting. The company has about 56,000 workers in the U.S., and about 33,000 of them could get the offers. Of those, 31,000 are blue-collar workers and 2,500 salaried employees. The company has another 8,000 union workers in Canada, but it would not say how many will get offers...

The offers follow Ford and General Motors, which have trimmed their workforces in the past year through buyout offers. About 5,000 white-collar workers took General Motors up on offers to leave the company this year. Ford cut about 3,000 contract and full-time salaried workers last summer, giving them severance packages.
The article adds that Shawn Fain, the new president of the United Auto Workers union, has told reporters "that he's unhappy with all three companies" over attempts to unionize "new joint-venture factories that will make battery cells for future electric vehicles."

The Detroit Free Press has specifics: He said, for instance, that the wages are lower at the GM and LG Energy Solution Ultium Cells joint venture in Ohio compared with other auto production jobs even though the work is potentially dangerous and requires significant training... The EV transformation is crucial for the future of the industry and its workers, and the union expects its members not to "get lost in the transition," Fain said, noting that jobs are needed "that raise people up, not take us back."
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Transition to EVs Cited as More Automakers Reduce Workforces More

Transition to EVs Cited as More Automakers Reduce Workforces

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  • Learn to code! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 30, 2023 @01:41PM (#63486962)
    You auto workers should just learn to code and life will be good.

    • I know how to code (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:07PM (#63487082)
      If (ruling_class_lackey == true){

      guillotine();

      }

      I realized something. We can't get to guys like Bill Gates or Jim Farley. They've got private armies. And if we get close to them the real army will get called out and used against us.

      But the middle manager lackeys that do their bidding? Yeah, those guys are fair game. And you won't get any protection, because you're easily replaceable.

      Now, don't get me wrong, that won't solve anything. The 1% will just cycle in another bunch of assholes to put the boot on us. But on the other hand it won't help *you* if you're one of those aforementioned lackeys who gets on the wrong end of a sharp, descending blade.

      China does this all the time. They throw a few people the the wolves after a scandal. Executing them for the corruption the real rulers know is happening. They get replaced and everything proceeds as normal.

      What I'm saying is, if you're Staning for the 1%, praising billionaires for being "visionaries" you should probably stop. You're not one of them. You're never going to be one of them, and as we've seen with how Twitter employees & users have been treated in the last several months, you're nothing but a disposable commodity to them.

      Wake up. Or as the kiddies say "go woke". "Woke" doesn't mean "stuff I don't like" it means being aware of your situation.
      • I would say that being aware your situation means not making a product more expensive by retaining an unnecessary workforce.

    • Judging by the quality (clunkiness) of the software in many cars today, they need to find someone--somewhere--that knows how to code! Maybe they should start by getting training for the coders they already have.

      • its all up and down. I say this as someone who has been in 2 car companies (bay area) and have seen enough to know what's wrong.

        management knows nothing about silicon valley and yet most of them are here and hiring locals (or people who work and live here) but they show they have no clue about the engineering culture.

        testing is mostly in name only. development is given to the cheapest newhires you can get and retain. no one knows linux (well) and no one knows much about networking. cars are all about li

        • Your description of how software development works in the car business isn't surprising at all. It comes down to one thing...sticking with what you're good at doing.

          A Mexican restaurant, or a diner, shouldn't try to add steaks to their menu. It's not what they're good at. Car companies shouldn't try to create software, it's not what they're good at.

          Apple and Google are making headway in this space, with CarPlay and Android Auto. I hope more car companies sign on.

          • Apple and Google are making headway in this space, with CarPlay and Android Auto. I hope more car companies sign on.

            If you think the entertainment system is what he is referring to, you don't seem to realize just how much programming is happening in a typical vehicle, either EV or ICE.

            Ever heard of CAN bus? [wikipedia.org] All the controllers for the anti-lock brakes, air bags, seat belt tensioners, fuel levels, breaks, turn signals, self driving, adaptive headlights, etc, etc, etc. are connected via the CAN bus and there are dozens of controllers, transceivers, memory units, etc that are in constant communication. Remember the chip s

            • Apple CarPlay and Android Auto do a lot more than entertainment. These systems also control many of the car's built-in systems such as environmental controls and displays traditionally placed on a car's dashboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] Agreed, these systems are in their infancy, but they are much better designed than automakers' own software.

              As for the CAN bus, Apple and Google don't really need to be writing code at that level. That is clearly at the level of the mechanical operation of the eng

  • It's a transition for the better (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @02:15PM (#63486996) Journal

    As we will depend less on petrol and resources that can't last forever there will be an uncomfortable transition. Jobs will be lost, new jobs will be created, out with the old and in with the new. History repeats itself.

    Personally I love the change. I just bought an EV too, it feels weird not having to go to the gas station ever again, and my vehicle is ready charged for me every day, sure - the power bill has gone up but the costs are not much different from what I used to pay for gasoline, and now I can safely start the car inside the garage as well, no dangers of getting exhaust fumes and die from that.

    One could always argue that the fire hazard has increased, but those things happening is super rare, maybe in places where electricity has been installed by unauthorized hobbyists and "I can fix it" types in areas that allows for that, but here in Scandinavia we don't allow that and safety is high.

    It also feels serene to not have a motor that maybe doesn't start, or having to service it so often, and it's blissfully silent to drive. Sure - the range ain't that big, but let's face it, how often do you travel 2+ hours each day? I commute 30 mins to work each day so for me it's a non-issue. Not to mention the cleaner air.

    Safety has never been this good either, for example today there was this crazy person that drove on the highway behind me, she was literally tailgating me, and I had no clue how close she was, but my car just "half-took-over" (mine is made so it can't fully take over, you still have mechanical controls), but there's a belt that can take over partially - and just slides off iif you "insist" on steering it in your direction, which feels kinda safe since it can't fully take over your driving if the system should malfunction), this is the future of cars.

    As for jobs - I've never had the same job all my life, my grandparents did - and they were lucky to have that kind of job security, we don't really have that anymore. I've had jobs like delivering papers, phone sales, store clerk, programmer, substitute teacher, IT-Supporter etc... almost everything under the sun, and honestly I don't mind - keeps life interesting and not so boring.

    Eventually those workers will find other jobs or teach themselves new skills. I was 55+ when I got a new job again, and I have very little schooling.

    • Re:It's a transition for the better (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:00PM (#63487066)

      Eventually those workers will find other jobs or teach themselves new skills. I was 55+ when I got a new job again, and I have very little schooling.

      That unfortunately does not mean a lot. Being able to learn new skills is a rather rare talent in people over 30 or so. Being able to teach yourself new skills is rare in general. You do find the second talent all over the place. You find PhDs that have it (and many that do not) and you also find people with minimal formal education that have it (again, many do not) and I suspect not less in relative numbers than with the PhD holders. It probably gets even rarer in the middle area of formal education though, because these are the people that decided to stick with it but were not really good at it. The thing is highly capable people (i.e. people that can teach themselves) regularly do not fit the rather inflexible and bizarre education system. Some decide to game the system and only take what still works seriously (I did) while other decide to do it all by themselves (probably what you did). There is a reason you can get almost any formal academic qualification (including most of a PhD) by just proving you have equivalent skills.

      The problem is that most people cannot teach themselves at all as soon as they leave childhood and have a very hard time learning new things when they are above 30 or so. So while people like you and me can basically always find something we are good at and that is in demand, most people cannot do that. And hence there will be a massive social problem from this increase in productivity. Don't get me wrong, increased productivity is a very good thing. But the problems it causes also need to be solved, and that means, among other things, that the increased profits cannot stay mostly or purely private.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

        You know, I hate it when I take too good a look at a proposed concept sometimes.

        When I read your post, I immediately went "Haha, true. Suckers!"... until I remembered that to this day, I cannot wrap my brain around electronic circuits. I have a hard time understanding 3D printing and I cannot find the motivation to stick to something new until it's done as opposed to until I'm fed up.

        I really hope it's just the depression and not a new status quo for me.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          You may just have a selective limit there. Or not. In the second case, you can still make this work by planning sufficiently ahead. For example, all old tech needs people that keep it running until it finally gets phased out decades later. You just need to be in there first and demonstrated your skill before the suddenly unemployed masses flood the market.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

            It's not (yet) a problem career-wise. I'm a private cloud engineer and while public cloud is all the rage now... I kinda think people will get fed up with paying more for less (in some ways) sooner than I get out of job opportunities.

            It's more a matter of lacking hobbies to wind down for me. I get to be 42 this year. I am much more scared of running out of a will to live than job opportunities.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              Private cloud? Then I think there is no danger to you. More and more businesses are finding out the public cloud is not all it is claimed to be. Also, at least in Europe, regulated enterprises need now have a strategy to move out of the public cloud again or at least switch to a different one (which is almost the same thing).

              As to hobbies, try things. I do like some physical engineering, for example and I never stopped loving to read. I did take up some gardening and more cooking as well in the last few yea

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

          Fortunately, 3D printing is one of those things where you can get pretty good at using specific hardware and techniques without having a grasp of how the whole system works. You aren't supposed to grasp every little detail, or at least it's not supposed to be a requirement to use the hardware. That's the main difference between industrial and consumer grade -- the consumer grade stuff needs to be accessible (sometimes at the expense of capability) while the heavy machinery needs to be capable, often at the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

            Problem I have is I'm a tinkerer... I want to make most out of everything and right now my second printer, the one that actually worked for me, lies half disassembled in my office :D.

            I should have gone with a Bambu Lab I think. Would have saved me much headache.

      • My grandmother always called me a hopeless optimist and a romatic. /s

        I do get what you mean, and there are many a moment where I slap my own face and wonder about the endless stupidity of individuals, but then again I am reminded to take a look into the mirror and realize I can make mistakes too (which I do, frequently).

        There's also this thing about half glass full or empty, I've had so many friends that have told me they can't do this and too old for that - but what I've personally experienced is that will

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Thanks for your thoughts.

          You are welcome. Come to think of it, my last boss (also a friend) called me exceptionally untypical because I am best motivated by learning something new and not very motivated by doing something I know how to do. This seems to be really rare.

          • Sadly it seems to be very rare. I have this other friend, a former colleague from work. He fancies talking about himself as different from others and open to new things, it's almost as if he is trying to convince himself of this rather than me. He frequenly boosts how he gets colleagues to talk together and laugh and how he has been compared to different cultures rather than his own.

            My observation of him is very different from his self image, he loves routine work, he likes when things are known, always pla

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              Something to ponder there.

              Indeed. Most valuable insights in live are not readily obvious. You have to find them.

            • Wow...you people really seem to spend a LOT of time thinking about yourself....?

              I really rarely sit and contemplate what I am, who I am, where I'm going....and what it all means.

              I just enjoy life, you know?

              I have tons of interest....I like many old things, I enjoy some new things that strike my fancy, although I have little control on that.

              But I guess I don't have time to do all this self contemplation, I just wake up, enjoy the fact I'm starting the day breathing once again and go enjoy myself.

              Is this

        • Working in a computer store last century, I met 40 year olds who told me they were too old to learn how to use micro-computers. But at the same time I had a customer who was 84 years old (I knew his age because he was buy a present for his own birthday) tell me about all the expansions and extras he was adding to his machine. And he was looking forward to what to do on his computer next.
      • The hard part right now is that we hear that US unemployment (the U3) is at 3.5% and that's bad as we are having terrible wage inflation and nobody can hire. But then when some companies try to do business with fewer workers, that's also bad because of all of the people who will lose their jobs. It can be both in that the businesses that can't hire right now are the really bad jobs and the jobs being cut tend to be good ones. But the reality is that the problem is more complex than fits to the simple exp

      • That's not the only problem. The issue is the career reset. People who start a new career at 55 typically don't command the pay off a veteran in their career choice. You're paid on experience not on age alone.

        So even if you can learn a new skill you should generally still expect to downgrade your quality of life as a result.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      I find your idea that fires in EVs would be mostly caused by faulty wiring by do-it-yourselfers both kinda naive and insulting to be honest.

    • Acting like this is going to somehow succeed is the problem here. It won't in this iteration. The automakers 'tooling up' because their government overlords told them to are going to take a bath on this and require more bailouts. There are a variety of reasons why, but i'd point out several big ones:

      1. City streets are not covered with EV charging stations and won't be anytime soon. Anyone who parks on the street can't use one right now, basically. That's a lot of people, and the prime demographic for EV

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gTsiros ( 205624 )

      What did your car do? It is not at all clear from your description.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Wolfier ( 94144 )

      It also feels serene to not have a motor that maybe doesn't start

      As a long time EV owner, I've found out that the old relic of a 12v battery still determines whether your car can move or not, and I bet a couple of more EV owners can chime in with their own experience - yes, there's no spark plugs and coils, but unfortunately something is still in the way of making it a completely serene experience until they get vital functions of the car off the 12v batteries, or even better, just get rid of it.

  • GM is aiming for 1M EV by 2025, Ford aiming for 2M in the next couple years, VW also moving towards EVs for majority of passenger vehicles and while the Japanese brands are lagging on EV theyre also in the transition phase.

    All these companies are currently building battery and vehicle plants and part of that is cutting back and shuttering existing plants before these new ones are opened. Now will these have the same amount of line workers as the old ones? Absolutely not but new ICE plants would be more aut

  • Well, in principle, that is a good thing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @02:48PM (#63487038)

    It means significantly improved productivity. The problem comes in by way of the profits from this being privatized, i.e. the people out of a job are a problem that gets socialized and everybody pays for it. A solution would be a) more taxes on profits and b) making it a lot harder to hide profits and also add CEO prison time for doing so.

    • Or those people can get new jobs just like everyone else who loses their job anywhere else.

      Why is their job loss socialized? They all paid into the unemployment system. They'll get some of their own money back. No one else is paying extra unemployment for them.

      Unemployment isn't enough to live on anyway. It's just a stepping stone to your next job so you don't starve to death while looking for other work.

      And why would a CEO want to hide profits??? Omg, that's how most of them make their money!!! More

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        You assume more jobs will be available. For the first time in history, it very much does not look like that will happen this time, at least longer term.

        As to your other comments, please switch on your brain and look at reality.

        • You assume more jobs will be available.

          Oh, there will be plenty of jobs. Problem is, they'll be the kind of jobs that don't really pay enough for home ownership at today's prices.

  • Just think of all the labor saved by eliminating all knobs and switches on the dashboard - a touchscreen to conquer all touchscreens seems to be all that's needed now.

    Although a physical button to call 911 should be included so you can easily get help after you crashed into a tree with your rental car while trying to decipher which submenu you had to get to in order to apply the brakes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      Actually in many cases cars will automatically call 911 (or the local equivalent in other countries) when the airbags deploy. So they figured out how to eliminate that button, too.

      My touch-screen car experience is that I can mostly ignore it. When I need something, the voice commands usually take care of it. Of course, if I've engaged Autopilot, it usually doesn't matter, since the car does a better job of handling most routine driving than I do.

    • At the moment there's a story making the rounds at various outlets that buttons are back [futurism.com]. If so I would be delighted.

    • Just think of all the labor saved by eliminating all knobs and switches on the dashboard - a touchscreen to conquer all touchscreens seems to be all that's needed now.

      I hope this trend towards ALL touch screen dies a quick and painful death.

      I don't want only a large sheet of glass in my car.

      I want buttons and switches that I can find, feel and operate without taking my eyes off the road for any meaningful amount of time.

      Digging through menus of stuff on a screen while driving 80mph+ is not a safe paradi

  • Massive layoffs at buggy whip factories (Score:3)

    by marcle ( 1575627 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @07:38PM (#63487504)

    Union says horseless carriages are the work of the devil.

  • Lemmings over the cliff? (Score:3)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Sunday April 30, 2023 @08:22PM (#63487582)

    Don't get me wrong - I know that eventually we need to transition away from ICE vehicles. But the haste of the current shift smacks more of bandwagon-jumping than it does of reasoned decision making.

    I have yet to see any thorough, convincing data that making and powering EV's has an overall smaller greenhouse gas footprint than making and powering ICE vehicles. From mineral extraction and refining, to transporting parts and materials, to manufacturing, to generating and distributing electricity, (including the carbon footprint of the windmills and solar panels) - are EV's really any better at reducing greenhouse gas emissions? And currently, the social and environmental costs at the sources of rare-earth metal extraction seem more horrendous than those of the raw materials required for ICE cars.

    I hope I'm wrong. I'd be happy to be convinced that electric cars are as good in the short term, and even the medium term, as I expect they will be in the long term. Has anybody come up with a credible, complete, non-hype-driven analysis that demonstrates the superiority of EV's?

  • ICE is being legislated out. EVâ(TM)s are being pushed. Yet, despite apparently being much simpler are much more expensive. That and thereâ(TM)s bugger all development of generating capacity across the world. Add to that a big boost in unemployment. So, what to do, no job, not enough money to have a car.

    • Much more expensive: You probably haven't checked lately, this changed about 1-2 years ago, if you shop smart. Prices are still elevated due to production shortages. The entire supply chain needs to be developed and expanded.

      EV Batteries are already an order of magnitude cheaper, and getting cheaper still. I think we're in the "hump" period, where we're about to see a lot of change very quickly. That doesn't mean that it won't be a decade or more before over half the vehicles on the road are EV.

      As for

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