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Transportation Apple

Ford CEO Says It Will Keep Apple CarPlay, Android Auto: 'We Lost That Battle 10 Years Ago' (thedrive.com) 168

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Drive: While General Motors has announced that it plans to phase out CarPlay in its EVs starting in 2024, Ford has just doubled down on long-term CarPlay compatibility. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Ford CEO Jim Farley laid it bare: "In terms of content, we kind of lost that battle 10 years ago," Farley said. "So like get real with it, because you're not going to make a ton of money on content inside the vehicle."

Farley's argument is extremely sound. He is contending that since most people bring their smartphones into their cars with them, that people want the infotainment to be an extension of their phones and not another thing to deal with. On another level, embracing CarPlay and Android Auto cost automakers money to license but that cost is amortized over a large production run. The possibility of having a CarPlay-only infotainment is distant and highly unlikely, as automakers do need their own interface for the high-tech gadgets of today's cars.

And let's be real: CarPlay is one of the best things to happen to modern cars. It simplifies driving, keeps people less distracted by vastly reducing the learning curve, and is just more convenient. Ford is embracing it.

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Ford CEO Says It Will Keep Apple CarPlay, Android Auto: 'We Lost That Battle 10 Years Ago'

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  • Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Maavin ( 598439 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:06AM (#63510769)
    Common sense!? That is really astounding
    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Junta ( 36770 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:18AM (#63510795)

      GM has handed every competitor an easy win by declaring their disinterest in phone based infotainment.

      It's just such an obviously bad call.

  • by dawime ( 29644 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:23AM (#63510807)

    I bought a car 2 years ago for my oldest - Considered several models, but if they did not have carplay it was a showstopper. Not sure how this will work for GM in the long run, but certainly I won't be a potential buyer for their vehicles.

  • CarPlay vs Tesla (Score:5, Informative)

    by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:24AM (#63510811)

    My car has the standard CarPlay on a respectable/appropriate sized screen.
    My wife has a model 3 (no car play).

    Although the Tesla native alternatives are pretty good, I still find it annoying sometimes in her car not to have CarPlay. I want integration. I want Waze. I want a few other things Tesla doesn't provide. And oh yeah, I gotta pay Tesla $100/year or $10/month to get the premium service with music, nav, etc. on the Tesla but my phone is just my phone. With or without my car, I'd still have the phone so that's a sunk cost either way.

    Not having CarPlay is a bad call. Will it hurt sales? Probably a little bit but the bean counters have decided to kill it at GM and risk the losses.

    • You don't have to pay Tesla $10 per month. Tether your phone to your car and Spotify etc will work without paying Tesla. You'll lose live traffic, but pretty much everything else will work.

      • by twdorris ( 29395 )

        You'll lose live traffic, but pretty much everything else will work.

        You say that as if live traffic in a driven vehicle isn't one of the main features we'd want integrated into our navigation system. Just below mapping out your route for you as the primary function, I'd say live traffic is the next top priority for most!

        And Tesla, of course, knows this. It's the only reason I (grudgingly) pay that $100 / yr...to get live traffic updates integrated in the same LARGE map that automatically tracks my battery usage and helps plan my stops to charge.

        Yes, I have my phone snappe

        • Live Traffic costs real money, Google doesn't provide it for free. Do you expect Tesla to pay for it out of their own pockets?

      • Yeah but then I get things displaying on my phone. I like having the waze map and traffic info on the big screen. It's easier to see and safer than looking at my phone. The lack of interoperability isn't a standalone reason not to buy a car but it is a negative and all else being equal I'd always go for the car play vehicle.

    • Surprised you like waze. That damn thing gives me road rage from all the goddam warnings of shit that totally doesnt matter. They need to have a system where you can get users suspended. I dont need a warning every 3 min about a goddamn vehicle on the side of the road. Its a rest area and trucks ALWAYS sleep on the shoulders of onramps. If you eliminated all the goddamn wazers input the app would be ok. Construction, traffic jams, actual cop speedtraps, and wrecks. Oh and potholes only that are large enough
      • Yes I absolutely agree on the defaults but you can turn off various alerts on waze. Where I live there is -always- a bunch of cars abandoned on the side of the road. I have no idea what's up with that, they don't look like beaters but there it is. Once I turned that kind of noise off I only hear from it about cops and bad traffic and other things I find useful.

        Dig around through the settings, it's in there somewhere. I changed mine about 2 months ago and there's been no updates since so it should be in

  • I am also pretty sure Apple doesnâ(TM)t charge a license fee for CarPlay.

    • I know people don't always read the article but did you even read the summary?

      On another level, embracing CarPlay and Android Auto cost automakers money to license but that cost is amortized over a large production run.

      Yes, there is a licensing fee, but it's a one time deal that they can then amoritize across all the vehicles they produce. From my understanding the fee is not per vehicle but rather a one time up front licensing fee.

    • They force users to pay 30 dollars for reasonably usb fast charging in a cable... or a licensing fee for using the volume up and down buttons on wired headsets when it was a thing... or every single repairable component... or all the app store purchases... but they're not going to gouge users on car integration. No offense, but do you realize how ridiculous an assumption you've just made?
  • Farley's argument is extremely sound. He is contending that since most people bring their smartphones into their cars with them, that people want the infotainment to be an extension of their phones and not another thing to deal with. On another level, embracing CarPlay and Android Auto cost automakers money to license but that cost is amortized over a large production run. The possibility of having a CarPlay-only infotainment is distant and highly unlikely, as automakers do need their own interface for the high-tech gadgets of today's cars.

    True, but underwhelming and it took them long enought to figure that one out. I really don't care about an elaborate 'infotainment' system in my car. At minimum I need a bluetooth connection to stream audio to the on-board speakers and a place to attach a device holder. Seamless Bluetooth based car integration using the onboard LCD display (basically CarPlay and Android Auto) is a bonus. Other than that, if they are really worried about driver distraction, what I'd want next from car manufacturers is that t

    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      It *should* be underwhelming, and it's only a story because GM went the other direction to say they were going to back away from Android Auto and Apple Carplay.

      Other than that, if they are really worried about driver distraction, what I'd want next from car manufacturers is that they project basic driving and navigation data onto suitable locations on the windscreen, sort of like a HUD on a fighter plane.

      Some cars do that. In fact, in my car the android auto turn by turn gets put on the HUD, my instrument panel, and the center display (the center display being the typical main android auto output).

      • It *should* be underwhelming, and it's only a story because GM went the other direction to say they were going to back away from Android Auto and Apple Carplay.

        Other than that, if they are really worried about driver distraction, what I'd want next from car manufacturers is that they project basic driving and navigation data onto suitable locations on the windscreen, sort of like a HUD on a fighter plane.

        Some cars do that. In fact, in my car the android auto turn by turn gets put on the HUD, my instrument panel, and the center display (the center display being the typical main android auto output).

        Sounds nice. A HUD should be a required piece of standard equipment in every car.

    • Bluetooth? I connect the iPod with a USB cable. That keeps the iPod charged too. Otherwise I could use the aux input to the stereo.

      It doesn't take much. The truck already has navigation even it is prone to thinking I'm driving through a wheat field when I am on a paved road. GPS knows where I am, mapping software doesn't know about the road.

      • Bluetooth? I connect the iPod with a USB cable. That keeps the iPod charged too. Otherwise I could use the aux input to the stereo.

        It doesn't take much. The truck already has navigation even it is prone to thinking I'm driving through a wheat field when I am on a paved road. GPS knows where I am, mapping software doesn't know about the road.

        Then our mileage varies. After I fried the charging circuit of an iPod and a very expensive Garmin device by connecting them to the in-car USB sockets I went directly to wireless charging of all expensive mobile devices and haven't looked back. That also brings me to another thing that I think should be standard equipment in every car, a wireless charging pad in the centre console between the front seats.

        • That also brings me to another thing that I think should be standard equipment in every car, a wireless charging pad in the centre console between the front seats.

          Which phone should fit into that console area? There are several sizes...

    • My '22 Lincoln already displays navigation in a HUD on the windscreen, along with other pertinent information. The NAV can be from the built-in navigation or from Android Auto/Apple Carplay (whichever you might be using). It even displays the song title/artist info.
      • My '22 Lincoln already displays navigation in a HUD on the windscreen, along with other pertinent information. The NAV can be from the built-in navigation or from Android Auto/Apple Carplay (whichever you might be using). It even displays the song title/artist info.

        Sir, I now envy you so much my face went green :-).

  • by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:35AM (#63510833)

    GM would benefit from focusing engineers and investment on one approach to more tightly connecting in-vehicle infotainment and navigation with features such as assisted driving, Edward Kummer, GM's chief digital officer, and Mike Hichme, executive director of digital cockpit experience, said in an interview.
    ...
    "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030.

    • this sure as heck seems like a career ending decision for Mary Barra... will take 2-3 years for the disaster to play out... sad really

      • this sure as heck seems like a career ending decision for Mary Barra... will take 2-3 years for the disaster to play out... sad really

        For which shell get a huge golden parachute and land a gig elsewhere. Agile development by CEOs is as old as teh hills - Fail Big Early and move to teh next sprint, err job...

    • Same reason why Apple is doing everything it does. I see no winning move for GM though, Apple is simply in a much better position to skim off every transaction and subscription in the consumer economy than GM ... but there is no fundamental difference.

      Best to just support Carplay and make some money now, accepting your market share will plummet once Apple car launches. Can't fight Apple, unless you want to spend a couple 100 Billion to launch your own consumer electronic ecosystem.

      • Can't fight Apple, unless you want to spend a couple 100 Billion to launch your own consumer electronic ecosystem.

        They're not doing that, they're going all in with google instead.

        If the current guy stays in office this might be a big backfire for Google, if not GM, because this administration has been relatively active when it comes to antitrust — and everybody is always gunning for Apple because taking them down a peg will make them look powerful. (Whether they deserve it or not is outside the scope of this comment.) Convincing GM to drop Carplay is definitely anticompetitive. Google is always looking for ways t

        • The problem with Google is it wants to double dip. Get you at the store AND get you through datamining ... that's why Apple wins in the end. Advertising is just a scummy business which will drag them down.

          Google could compete with Apple, if they split off advertising completely and just went with OS licensing, hardware, Google services and store as revenue sources. A new Don't be Evil Google, without advertising because advertising is inherently evil.
          Unfortunately they still make way too much money for that

          • The problem with Google is it wants to double dip. Get you at the store AND get you through datamining ... that's why Apple wins in the end. Advertising is just a scummy business which will drag them down.

            You know that doesn't actually differentiate them from Apple in any way, right? Not even slightly. Apple collects data about you by default, and uses it to sell you ads [wired.com], exactly the same thing you're complaining about Google doing. In both cases you can limit the information your phone admits it is sending home. However, both Google and Apple are part of PRISM, so you can't actually trust either of them. There is no practical difference in privacy between Apple and Google, they are both shit. Interestingly

    • by linuxguy ( 98493 )

      GM's approach is shortsighted. The industry is moving away from this model. When my girlfriend was looking at buying an EV not long ago, she looked at the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3 base model. One major turnoff for the Bolt was that GM was trying to nickel and dime buyers on small things that were included with the Tesla. This included a basic data connectivity package. There are other differences and sure the price is different as well, but generally speaking, people are going to move away from mon

  • Sadly, the automotive industry will go the way of the dinosaurs - slowly to die off as they cannot change fast enough. Just like every large corporation, they are loathe to walk away from the dross and keep doubling down on what made bank ten years ago while the startups take the limelight. We see this in internet companies - what has happened to Yahoo? Google survives because they have an ad market dominance and they regularly kill off projects before they have a chance to require a double down investment.

    • Sadly, the automotive industry will go the way of the dinosaurs - slowly to die off as they cannot change fast enough.

      Since the vast majority of us need a car to get places, no, the automotive industry won't die off. Change, sure, but not die. Not having a car only works if you live in an extremely densely populated place with amazing public transportation ... which does NOT describe most of the US.

  • And let's be real: CarPlay is one of the best things to happen to modern cars. It simplifies driving, keeps people less distracted by vastly reducing the learning curve, and is just more convenient. Ford is embracing it.

    Cell phones was one of the worst things to happen to modern cars. CarPlay and Android Auto merely mitigated some of the damage.

    =Smidge=

    • I have a car that support Android Auto and CarPlay. I have a Google Pixel device. I never use AA and just stick with BT because the built-in nav system is superior to Google Maps and because I don't want to have to connect my device via USB cable. If AA was wireless, I might actually use it sometimes, but BT is perfectly usable.

  • by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:49AM (#63510881)

    I have a Mustang Mach E and I use Android Auto every day. It's great, especially on the giant screen. Ford is making the right call on this one. Further, it's great for rentals too, just to be able to plug my phone in the USB port and have *my* Android Auto ready to go.

    Honestly, if I was car shopping today a car *not* having Android Auto would be a serious negative. It might seriously be enough for me to choose a different vehicle.

  • by metoc ( 224422 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:55AM (#63510899)

    Given how many makes and model Ford has multipled by the years and languages that need to be supported, offloading it to Apple and Google isnâ(TM)t a bad choice. People get a choice and more frequent updates.

    • On one hand, I agree. On the other, there's no reason why Ford needs to have so many completely different systems. They could definitely have come up with one system, mandated one connection between the system and the display, and so on, and been able to redeploy the same hardware in every model, or one of a couple of different pieces of hardware running the same software anyway. Instead they went with the option that would save them money up front, at the cost of having to pay to redesign both display and

  • Imagine (Score:2, Insightful)

    by DarkOx ( 621550 )

    Imagine, thinking its a good idea to make a 30,000+ car you might keep for 10 years depend on a $800 mobile phone working a certain way you might keep for two.

    Until there is a really solid standard around display sharing etc for navigation, they way there is around bluetooth audio, and phone (as in making calls) integration, I don't want my infotainment system in the car being tightly coupled to the phone.

    Chrysler's UConnect is far and away the best in this space; nice big screen, easy to find and press on.

    • Imagine, thinking its a good idea to make a 30,000+ car you might keep for 10 years depend on a $800 mobile phone working a certain way you might keep for two.

      My guess, is the phone will be integrated into the infotainment system which is just one part of the whole digital dash designed by Apple. The service could work much like Apple Watch - separate eSIM but answers your phone number, or connect to a phone via Bluetooth. Of course, the automaker will sell you the service for a small(/s) monthly fee. The challenge is when will 5G sunset, leaving vintage cars without infotainment potentially.

    • Imagine, thinking its a good idea to make a 30,000+ car you might keep for 10 years depend on a $800 mobile phone working a certain way you might keep for two.

      What an odd take. No car infortainment system is "dependent" on cell phone connectivity. What you get is a superior integration and UI.

      "Imagine, thinking its a good idea to make a 30,000+ car you might keep for 10 years depend on a shitty legacy car manufacturer, almost all of which have proven to be inept at software engineering and maintenance, for updates and bug fixes."

      Honda and Subaru systems are pretty good but cumbersome to navigate, to many layers and sub screens. Honda's displays are way to little.

      Wow, I would rather eat glass than use any Honda UI I have ever seen. I have literally never heard this take before.

      The Ford and GM rentals I have been in with higher end configurations - utter garbage.

      You should try this

    • Imagine relying on an auto maker to maintain security updates on a built-in glorified smart phone in the car, instead of just plugging you own phone in and having the car system just be the control, display, and audio out for the phone (which you updated whenever). in 3-5 years GM will completely abandon updates on their integrated infotainment system, but if a vehicle supports android auto then everything will continue to just work with my up to date phone.

    • Agreed. I have a 2018 Jeep and I find the native nav system to be far superior to Google Maps. The Bluetooth connection to my phone is all that is ever needed and it works well.

  • by banbeans ( 122547 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:27AM (#63511001)

    Watch this 30 second commercial while GM EV optimizes your battery.
    Them a year later, Watch the 2 30 second commercials while your GM optimizes your battery.
    Beeeeeeeeeeeeep your eyes are off the screen, optimizing restarting.
    Something happened error #1* restart the car.

    *Error 1 = you looked away from the commercials a second time.

  • I went on a long hunt to figure out if I could get Google Maps to work with CarPlay, rather than using Apple's offering. Gave up. Then one day I was playing around with it, and... turns out that it was already there and always had been. Worked perfectly, although insisting on physical tethering is annoying.

    My main complaint about CarPlay is that it truncates things like available music when in motion. This is apparently a safety feature to prevent distracted driving. However, I am on the highway a lot in th

  • Waze is INTENTIONALLY not supporting one of the most important stereo tie-in protocols around.

    From the WAZE support team:

    Hi David,

    Thanks for contacting us.

    We received your report that Waze no longer works with Ford Sync 3.

    As of July 2021, Waze no longer supports SmartDeviceLink.

    If you encounter issues with this system, please reach out to your device manufacturer or car dealership for assistance.

    Feel free to visit our Help Center for future reference.
    Best,

    Danea
    Waze Support Team

    So who actually uses SmartDeviceLink? Is it cars nobody uses?

    I would say Ford and Toyota count as important. [smartdevicelink.com] The rest of them are certainly worth paying attention to.

    If I had the time I would start up Waze, find who was advertising through them and write every one of their advertisers asking why they pay to advertise on a platform that intentionally excludes are large portion of their p

  • Headline says something negative about Android auto, looking through the article and it's never substatiated or even addressed again. What sort of journalism is this?
  • by kbdd ( 823155 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:49AM (#63511257) Homepage
    As a recent buyer of two GM cars, I am disappointed by their decision. On the other hand, it's refreshing to see Ford not making the same mistake for once. It confirms that we have entered the age of "car as a service" where you no longer buy a car outright, you simply buy the right to be charged monthly to use it.
  • Ford made the mistake many others have in thinking Microsoft was a technology company and could make something as reliable as what's required in the automobile. Yes, they partnered with Microsoft, put Windows-CE(also known as WINCE) under their Ford Sync system and it failed terribly. Like others, they signed a multi year contract so it took 5 or more years to get off of that and they eventually put the QNX OS under Ford Sync. They looked at Linux but didn't like that there were no Linux lawyers who'd sign

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