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KDE GUI

KDE Plasma 6 Gets Better Default Settings to Improve Out-of-the-Box Experience (pointieststick.com) 71

KDE developer/QA manager Nate Graham describes the week-long development sprint for the next major release of Plasma desktop environment. And one big focus was "better default settings" to "improve the UX out of the box."

Some highlights from Nate's blog post: - Plasma 6 will default to opening files and folders with a double-click, not a single-click. Even though almost everyone in the room for the discussion actually uses and prefers opening with single-click, we had to admit that it's probably not the ideal default setting for people who are migrating from other platforms, which is most of them. They can still learn the benefits of single-click later.

- We decided to use the "Thumbnail Grid" Task Switcher by default and make some UI changes...

- We're going to make a very strong push for Wayland to be the default session type for Plasma 6. The X11 session will still be there of course, and distros will be free to override this and continue defaulting to X11 if they feel like it suits them better. But we want Wayland to be our official recommendation...

- For Plasma 6, we're going to try a slower release schedule of two per year once we feel like it's stabilized enough after its initial release. And we're going to be reaching out to distros with twice-yearly release schedules themselves to see if we can find release dates that will allow all of them to ship the latest version of Plasma soon after it's released rather than skipping it in favor of something older. Making use of these lengthened release periods, we're also going to lengthen our Beta releases and update them on a weekly basis, so there's more time to find and fix bugs.

Nate also shared this explanation for switching to a floating Panel by default: Microsoft has blatantly copied us in Windows 11, and as a result, people are starting to see Plasma as a cheap clone of Windows again. We see this all the time in the Visual Design Group room... Making the panel float by default provides an immediate visual differentiation from Windows 11 and we hope this will help jolt users' brains out of "ew, it's slightly different from Windows 11" mode and into "wow, this is new and cool and I wonder what's in it" mode.
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KDE Plasma 6 Gets Better Default Settings to Improve Out-of-the-Box Experience

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  • Now using Mate exclusively.

    A good openning for a novel about a computer geek:

    He drove a ten year old car, used a 20 year old desktop environment, and passed his time watching 30 year old scifi.

    Now get off my lawn.

    • Now using Mate exclusively.

      I too abandoned the Gnome ship when I learned what Gnome 3 was going to be like, partially because I didn't have enough RAM for it and wasn't in a position to upgrade. In my case, I migrated to Xfce and never looked back.
    • by dddux ( 3656447 )

      Same here. Unfortunately Mate developers went ahead of themselves, too and ruined Mate desktop experience with some stuff (windows focus strictly on mouse is the worst offender) nobody asked for so I had to switch the Windows Manger from Marco to Metacity. Metacity is actually leaner and better, I discovered. DE developers have to learn how to make simple and usable default desktops (no, not like Windows or Mac) and work more on a configuration program that can make suitable for everybody.

    • by anthk ( 5588258 )

      Well, I'm thirty-something, I use Emacs as my shell (even my X11 one, EXWM), and I still watch Star Trek:TNG
      among playing IF games in Malyon/Frotz, Slashem and BSD games.

  • by organgtool ( 966989 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:10AM (#63520423)

    This appearance change has generally been well-received by users, but it faced a persistent criticism: diminished ability to distinguish the active window at a glance.

    This has been a problem with almost every OS and every Linux DE for at least 15 years. Going back to at least Windows 95, the titlebar of active windows was very distinguished and I rarely confused which window was active. Then some buffoon came along and wanted to make window decorations more muted. This became compounded when multiple monitors became popular and you'd have more than one maximized window open simultaneously. I wish I had a dollar for every time I entered the credentials to an online account into a group chat because I didn't realize the chat window was active rather than the browser.

    Rather, it’s the fact that Microsoft has blatantly copied us in Windows 11, and as a result, people are starting to see Plasma as a cheap clone of Windows again...Making the panel float by default provides an immediate visual differentiation from Windows 11

    Wat?! Who cares what Windows does and what Linux user genuinely cares about the opinions of Windows users? All that matters is whether or not the desktop is easy to use and has a generally pleasing aesthetic. For my own taste, there's something really unsettling about seeing the taskbar just hanging out near, but not actually at, the bottom. It's also less usable since throwing the mouse at the bottom of the screen will now overshoot the taskbar. But hey, at least Windows users won't accuse my OS of choice with copying their OS of choice!

    • Then some buffoon came along and wanted to make window decorations more muted.

      Now you can't even find the title bar of window if you want to drag it. No edge for reference, either. And forget scroll bars.

      Running Mint with default install is so much more enjoyable.

      • As far as window management, I get around those issues by using Alt/Super + Left/Right mouse drag to move and resize windows without needing to use the titlebar, but you're right that it's definitely more difficult if you don't use those. As for scrollbars, I wish the scrollbar was super skinny, constantly visible, and easily distinguishable from application content when my mouse isn't hovering over the scrollbar and then when I do hover over it, widen the scrollbar to make it easily clickable.
    • by HiThere ( 15173 ) <charleshixsn@NOSpaM.earthlink.net> on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:13AM (#63520519)

      FWIW, I prefer double click to open things, and I haven't used MSWindows since sometime around 2000. Too often I'll generate a single click by accident.

      That said, I've never bothered to reset the default choices. Just "preference" isn't a strong preference. But the assumption that only MSWindows users prefer double-clicks is just self-centerd (i.e., I prefer it that way, so so does everyone like me).

      • Apparently it's not just Windows users, it's users who don't have good equipment or otherwise create unwanted clicks, as well as user who don't know better (such as Windows users). /S
    • 100%. This is true across all default environments from windows to mac to linux. Why can't we get a clear visual indicator of which windows is active? This seems to obvious with no actual gains from the muted/neutral look now. The use of a drop shadow isn't good enough, it's too subtle.

      Also agreed on the floating bar. Make the best user interface, don't worry about tiny things that are just to differentiate, no one is confusion windows for linux. Fact is that macos dock floats so you're just trading o

      • Why can't we get a clear visual indicator of which windows is active?

        You can; all you have to do is spend a few minutes editing whatever theme you've picked for your desktop. Once you've got it looking the way you want instead of what some UI designer thought would look good, you'll always know which is the active window.
        • by bjwest ( 14070 )

          You can; all you have to do is spend a few minutes editing whatever theme you've picked for your desktop.

          You do realize not everyone is comfortable, or even knowledgeable enough these days, to find and edit theme files. Linux is long past the days of geek-only users who know their way around the Linux filesystem.

          • Which is why there's a theme editor provided so that you don't have to.
            • by bjwest ( 14070 )
              And, again, this is something that may very well be above today's average Linux user's knowledge and/or comfort zone.
              • All it takes is enough curiosity to wander around the menus, clicking on things to see what they do. Now, the average user might not have the guts to try new things but it's not exactly hard to find if you actually want to.
                • by bjwest ( 14070 )

                  All it takes is enough curiosity to wander around the menus, clicking on things to see what they do.

                  That's quite presumptions of you to think that some people in this country don't have some kind of issue where something like just "clicking on things to see what they do" won't cause them some type of anxiety. Not everyone has even the remotest sense of technical ability, let alone the curiosity to start clicking away at things to see what they do. Our education system has been fucked for longer than personal computers have been in everybody's homes, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover t

                  • Look: if you're running Linux and you don't like the way your title bars look, it's not only possible to change them, it's not that hard. The fact that all too many people are unwilling to find away to fix the way they look doesn't change the fact that they could.
          • I think editing was a bad choice of words. It is a gui option to change the the window bars - same as it is in Windows.

    • and what Linux user genuinely cares about the opinions of Windows users?

      Linux is about as good as fusion power. With that kind of approach the year of Linux on Desktop will forever be 50 years away. I mean who cares about potential users right?

  • by xack ( 5304745 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:21AM (#63520435)
    Microsoft tried single click as an option when using the "Web integration" in Windows 98, people didn't like it so they reverted back to double click. Most people who use Linux want it to be "Windows without telemetry" so like it to be as Windows like as possible. I've used KDE since the 2.x days even though I mostly use Mate nowadays when using Linux since they removed most of Gnome 2.x's "experiments".
  • by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:30AM (#63520447)
    it is twitchy and annoying, but it is my preferred multi screen workstation install. For me the Shade feature is a requirement. Used to work great up through 20.04, but as of 22.04 and one to the 5.xx updates it is broken. Wonder if they fixed it? Was actually toying with the idea of tracking it down when I had some free time. I will have to make some time to check it out.
    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      KDE3 was my preferred desktop, then they updated it, and my preferred desktop was Gnome2. Then they updated it and now my preferred desktop is Mate, with several KDE applications. I also like xfce, but prefer Mate. (I prefer xfce over Cinnamon.)

      I like my desktops fairly simple (not extremely simple) and without bugs. The KDE2 reboots have (or had when I last checked) a problem of non-compatibility with the current KDE applications.

      This click vs. double-click thing is annoying, and I wouldn't call the ch

  • "Plasma 6 will default to opening files and folders with a double-click, not a single-click."
  • "We're going to make a very strong push for Wayland to be the default session type"
    • by bjwest ( 14070 )
      Not yet, it doesn't, and this is one of the reasons I'm not yet using Wayland. IMHO, Wayland is not in a state to fully replace X11 yet, but as long as they install everything X11 needs so it can be easily set as the default, I have little problems with them making it the default.
      • True, I still use kubuntu, but am considering rolling my 1, 22.04 workstation back to 20.04. Having to manually resize every window after double clicking the title to unshade is such a pain. ;) Thxs for the info!
  • by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:39AM (#63520467)
    Here's how to do it. Mimic Windows 7 perfectly by default. Add the ability to mimic the classic Windows 2000 look and feel for those that want it. Also add the ability to change the desktop experience to mimic Windows 10, 11, and OSX, again, for those that want it. Don't add useless default programs. Keep the penguin image far away. Don't force updates on users. Don't include spyware, adware, anybadware. Actually sell the distro with levels that include 1 to 3 years of support. Don't call your new users "NOOBs". Don't tell your users to "RTFM". Never, ever, require a standard user to use the terminal for anything, that's power user territory.
    • Never, ever, require a standard user to use the terminal for anything, that's power user territory.

      Should never require a terminal for anything on the desktop. Power user or no.
      This is the 2020s. Not the 1980s.

      • It's still faster and easier to perform many of the common file functions at the CLI level for power users. I for one would miss the CLI if it was eliminated.

    • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      Sounds like you have all the answers! Since Linux is FOSS, why don't you go ahead and built the perfect distro?
      • I want to use Linux, not build it. I want others to use it too and have introduced many to Linux. However, most abandon it because of God-awful support and implementation. If Linux is to go mainstream then these issues need resolved.

  • When you drag and drop files a menu pops open so that the KDE devs didn't have to implement the same thing every other OS does, intelligently choosing between moving and copying.

    Last I looked at the bug its status was essentially "might fix eventually"

    I also don't get how anybody prefers single click to open. Maybe if all you ever do with files with a GUI is launch apps that makes sense. For those of us who actually manipulate files with the GUI sometimes, it's terrible.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      ??
      I prefer to choose. The "intelligent choice" systems often assume that I want something quite different from what I actually want. And they don't have enough context that it's even possible for them to make that decision. (The only exception I can think of are the systems where you can't change a file you've written, but only create a new edition of it, where only the changed bits are copied. In those cases "copy" is the only reasonable choice for non-removeable media, because all you're doing is shar

      • It should be left drag intelligent copy/move, right-drag to choose. Ideally you could configure the specific behavior, but that's the best default.

        • by bjwest ( 14070 )

          It should be left drag intelligent copy/move, right-drag to choose. Ideally you could configure the specific behavior, but that's the best default.

          Why is that the best default? How is this "intelligent" copy/move supposed to know if I want to copy or move the file? What happens if I want to create a link instead of copy or move? Until we get to the point that our computers can read our minds, there is absolutely no way to determine what I want to do with that file. The current system of displaying a menu with left drag, moving with shift-left drag, copy with ctl-left drag, and link with shift-ctl-left drag is, IMHO, the best choice for this. I'm

          • How is this "intelligent" copy/move supposed to know if I want to copy or move the file?

            The same way everyone else has done it for decades.

            • by bjwest ( 14070 )

              How is this "intelligent" copy/move supposed to know if I want to copy or move the file?

              The same way everyone else has done it for decades.

              You mean by using the shift and/or control keys? How is that considered an intelligent copy/move operation, when I have to physically press a key for it to "decide" on what to do with my drag?

              • You mean by using the shift and/or control keys? How is that considered an intelligent copy/move operation, when I have to physically press a key for it to "decide" on what to do with my drag?

                You apparently don't know what any other OS does when you left-drag. This is weird, because most of us have used more than one OS.

                • by bjwest ( 14070 )

                  You mean by using the shift and/or control keys? How is that considered an intelligent copy/move operation, when I have to physically press a key for it to "decide" on what to do with my drag?

                  You apparently don't know what any other OS does when you left-drag. This is weird, because most of us have used more than one OS.

                  Please tell me how any OS can determine on it's own if I want to copy, move or create a link to a file I left-drag to another folder or my desktop. On both Windows 10 and 11, I see left-drag defaults to move to both the desktop and a folder, and I have to press Ctrl to copy or Alt to create a link. I don't know about OSX, but I highly doubt it has any better mind reading abilities than any Linux DM or Windows.

    • ...every other OS does, intelligently choosing between moving and copying.

      I've only used KDE (Kubuntu) and Windows (shudder), so my experience is limited to those two.

      KDE's file copy (aside from its abysmally slow speed since it's inception) is perfectly intelligent from my perspective. Hold down Control while dropping files, and it's a copy operation. Hold down Shift instead, and it's a move operation. Hold down Control+Shift, and it's a soft link operation. Simple, concise, and to the point.

      Windows, on the other hand, makes my skin crawl. It seems like random chance as to whet

      • Double clicking raises my blood pressure, especially on high-latency VPN's. [...] Since Windows 10 has zero launch status feedback, I frequently didn't know if I had successfully launched the program or not. I either had to wait a long time to find out I hadn't launched it, or I would launch more than one copy.

        KDE doesn't have this problem, because it has launch feedback. When you launch a .desktop file, the icon bounces next to your pointer while the executable launches.

        I also prefer single clicking for managing files. It's a bit faster (which quickly adds up quickly over the session time managing files), causes less stress on my fingers, and eliminates the guesswork inherent in double clicking anything (am I selecting something for a subsequent operation, opening the file, or launching a program tied to the file type?).

        There's no guesswork when double click opens, because single click selects. When single click opens, it's especially bad on Windows, because hovering selects.

    • I use single click, and prefer it. In my mind, it's more efficient.
      Good thing that you can change the default, or I would be looking for a window manager that supports single click.

  • Please feel free to correct me f i am incorrect here, as I have not tried Wayland, but I do not believe it sis a network distributed display system, as X11 is. If this is correct, then for my usage Wayland will never be an appropriate solution. A lot of what I do is run processes on machine that are not the one I am physically in front of (my workstation), and I absolutely depend on being able pus the remote displays to my local display session.

    • Last time I tried Wayland I had to disable it to get shade to work.
    • You can run an X server on Wayland.

      Exercise:
      Launch your password manager on X11.
      Now launch xev as your unprivileged user. Move it out of the way but where you can watch it.
      Now unlock your password manager and watch xev output.
      Then think about running a binary like Chrome or a plugin (widevine, anybody?).

      This is the most urgent need for Wayland.

      You might also prefer app-level RDP on Wayland depending on your use case.

      Certainly having a DE like KDE getting past their showstoppers is critical to thinking abou

  • The sad thing is that 20 years ago we had better desktop environments on Linux.
    KDE itself was a shining example of it.
    But in the years since the golden age of the Linux desktop,
    Desktop environment development has been about the style, about the flash, about differentiating from other desktops instead of building a functional desktop.
    You want to do something new and cool, slim it down, bring us back to the golden days.
    Make a good desktop environment that works. Don't care what the other guys are doing bec
    • I'd much rather use the old Indigo Magic desktop from SGI than anything modern. http://yohanan.org/steve/proje... [yohanan.org]

    • by _merlin ( 160982 )

      I don't know why this was moderated flamebait - it's true. Linux is a worse desktop than it was in the past. I just use the terminal to do everything. Windows is getting worse, too. The ribbon sucks, the new start menu and task bar suck. The settings app sucks.

      • You and Kremmy can stay in the 80s.
        Some of us want to use the horse power provided by the PC and not have it run like it still 1985
  • Colors (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jmccue ( 834797 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:02PM (#63520779) Homepage

    Since KDE 1.x, the default colors of KDE always gave me sever eye strain after an hour of use. KDE 4.x was a bit of an improvment, KDE 5.x, same as 4.x. I always have to search for a color theme that is good for me. I found one, it prevents strain for about 5 to 6 hours . That is my only issue with KDE.

    I can say a lot of bad things about GNOME3, but the default colors of GNOME3 is like floating on a cloud for my eyes. No strain at all and it is like getting a massage. The best thing KDE can do for me is do something about its default colors (or rendering), then things would be good.

  • I like that it is going to double click now. Nothing more annoying than installing it fresh and opening a bunch of files.
    But the floating panel by default looks like nonsense. It looks like something Windows is going to have in a year or two.
  • Hate gnome the bloated. Used to use ICEwm. Using kde. Was find, CentOS 5-7. Was fine under Ubuntu 20.04. I moved to almalinux... and when I log in, one time out of maybe ten it returns my screen to what it was. ALL the rest of the times, it decides to show all minimized windows, and *always* wants to move my two urxvt windows to the upper left, instead of the upper right where I want them.

    Tried auto, tried manual. Nope, no difference.

  • For those of you who survived a stroke reading this, here's a hopefully somewhat reassuring correction.

    The Good

    Nate Graham isn't a KDE QA manager.

    The Bad

    To my knowledge, there has never been a KDE QA manager.

    The Ugly

    Graham does remain a KDE developer, and if KDE had to name a QA manager today, Graham would probably be the current contributor who would best correspond. He does claim to be a QA Manager working on KDE: https://pointieststick.com/201... [pointieststick.com]

It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river. -- Abraham Lincoln

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