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Transportation Music

Saving AM Radio - the Case For and Against (msn.com) 282

This weekend the Washington Post updated the current status of AM radio: Automakers, such as BMW, Volkswagen, Mazda and Tesla, are removing AM radios from new electric vehicles because electric engines can interfere with the sound of AM stations. And Ford, one of the nation's top-three auto sellers, is taking a bigger step, eliminating AM from all of its vehicles, electric or gas-operated...

Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia and Jaguar Land Rover — said they have no plans to eliminate AM.

The case for removing AM radio: [A]lthough 82 million Americans still listen to AM stations each month, according to the National Association of Broadcasters, the AM audience has been aging for decades. Ford says its data, pulled from internet-connected vehicles, shows that less than 5 percent of in-car listening is to AM stations. Ford spokesman Alan Hall said that because most AM stations also offer their programming online or on FM sister stations, the automaker will continue to "offer these alternatives for customers to hear their favorite AM radio music and news as we remove [AM] from most new and updated models." The 2024 Mustang is Ford's first internal combustion model to be marketed without AM...

As Ford did, BMW eliminated AM from electric models in part because "technological innovation has afforded consumers many additional options to receive the same or similar information," Adam McNeill, the company's U.S. vice president of engineering, said in a letter to Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.)... For the automakers, eliminating AM is a simple matter of numbers and progress. The AM audience keeps getting smaller and older, and the growth of alternative forms of in-car audio has been explosive.

But the Post adds this this happening "despite protests from station owners, listeners, first-responders and politicians from both major parties." and they point out that half of all AM-radio listening takes place in cars: Many AM stations don't offer alternative ways to listen to their shows. Even those that do say their audience, much of which is older, tends not to be adept at the technologies that let drivers stream anything they choose from their smartphones into their car's audio system. And despite the growing popularity of podcasts and streaming audio, a large majority of in-car listening remains old-fashioned broadcast radio, according to industry studies.

[S]ome of the country's most lucrative radio stations are still on AM, mostly all-news or news and talk stations in big cities such as New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Los Angeles.ome of the country's most lucrative radio stations are still on AM, mostly all-news or news and talk stations in big cities such as New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Los Angeles.

The Post also points out that AM and FM radio combined account for 60 percent of all in-car listening, according to a new study by Edison Research. "SiriusXM satellite radio makes up 16 percent of in-car audio use, followed by drivers' own music from their phones at 7 percent and podcasts and YouTube music videos at 4 percent each."
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Saving AM Radio - the Case For and Against

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  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:03PM (#63521473)

    If most of the audience who listens to AM radio is older, and not prone to use technological alternatives, then it would seem to be wise to keep AM radio since older people generally have a lot more disposable income.

    They also claim less than 5% of drivers listen to AM. But where do they get THAT data from? It seems unrealistic, especially for older drivers.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by will_die ( 586523 )
      That data comes from people that a separate sim chip in their cars or are sharing the internet connection from their phones.
      So someone like me who almost never connects their car to the internet would not be recorded and I mainly listen to downloaded audiobooks via bluetooth and people that do that did not even come up as a measurable group.
      • by Spazmania ( 174582 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @12:47AM (#63521613) Homepage

        The argument against seems weak because the auto makers aren't admitting the real argument against AM radio.

        Your VoIP telephone adapter still supports pulse (rotary) dialing because it costs practically nothing to implement. An AM radio receiver is the same way.

        The AM radio _antenna_, on the other hand, carries a cost. It has to be relatively long, so it either has to stick out above the car body (which few buyers like), or it has to be carefully integrated into the shape of the car body. Tweaking your car body design for successful AM radio reception is both expensive and very limiting. For something few people use.

        • What? Engineering is a PITA, full stop.

          Also implementing pulse dialing is nothing because it involves no real engineering in a physical sense, no extra chips. Also listening for clicks instead of DTMF was implemented because they couldn't roll out new phones and switches nationwide at the same time, nor was AT&T still the lord and master of all.

          Finally, to be fair, if AT&T had still been lord and master of all phone services, you might not see pulse at all today. AT&T would've killed it of
          • Although the "full stop" rubric doesn't help your argument, you do have some sound reasoning in your argument. It's OK to drop AM.

            Spectrum allocation and software-defined radios have obviated what were once AM radio's benefits. Like ISDN, 10BaseT, and in the case of radio, spark transmitters and even Morse Code, all have dropped in popularity because *they should*.

            There remains only the transmitter changes to FM for public service AM radio stations.

            Engineering is not a PITA. Nonetheless, technology entropy

            • The full stop statement actually is a "for" argument.

              Not even because they "should" per se but simply because they were supplanted by advancing technology. The only reason they held as long as they did was lower cost. Radios were already engineered and changing them would cost money. New "entertainment systems" are being redone regularly, in this time of rapid changes. Look at Sync vs Sync II if you want a hint. A VFD? and USB1.1 versus a color LCD display and USB 2. That's before Sync III having USB or
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by postbigbang ( 761081 )

                The electronics are truly trivial, almost inconsequential from a cost standpoint. It's the antenna that costs, plus the additional energy that te longer wavelength adds to the noise shelf in the receiver, potentially causing more profitable telemetry data reception problems.

                The media found on AM, a few exceptions aside, is low-value and also found on FM stations. The disadvantage is largely to those in truly rural and low population density areas in the western US mountain ranges. FM sucks there because VHF

        • by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot&worf,net> on Monday May 15, 2023 @07:30AM (#63522033)

          The argument against seems weak because the auto makers aren't admitting the real argument against AM radio.

          Your VoIP telephone adapter still supports pulse (rotary) dialing because it costs practically nothing to implement. An AM radio receiver is the same way.

          The AM radio _antenna_, on the other hand, carries a cost. It has to be relatively long, so it either has to stick out above the car body (which few buyers like), or it has to be carefully integrated into the shape of the car body. Tweaking your car body design for successful AM radio reception is both expensive and very limiting. For something few people use.

          Nope. The AM antenna uses the same defogger grid as your FM antenna does. After all, power antennas stopped being a thing in the mid-90s. And AM radio has seen heavy use from then until now. So obviously the solution has been around. The only special antenna on these cars is the "shark fin" satellite radio antenna.

          The rear window defogger grid is still a huge array of wires whether it's the printed type where you can see the lines or built into the glass itself. Plus, modern vehicles have antenna amps.

          Radio in modern vehicles is done via SDR radio chips - the one I worked with handled infotainment audio (e.g., media playback, streaming, GPS, etc), AM, FM and DAB. You can get it without DAB if you wanted to use, say, proprietary HD Radio chips instead (HD Radio is completely proprietary - you need special chips and codec chips to use it, which is why it's falling out of favor).

          About the only excuse that might work is interference - EVs can be horrible at it, between the variable frequency drives and inverters, but given I listen to AM radio, I've yet to have my reception get swamped everytime a Tesla drives by.

          Heck, in Canada, AM radio is often used for all news stations and more importantly, sports.

          Hell, aircraft carry AM receivers - not just the two-way communications radios (aviation band sits between the FM broadcast band and the 2M ham band), but NDBs are so close to the AM band the receivers can receive AM too (this provides additional navigation since you know where AM stations are located). The antennas used to be huge, but now they're small and compact and it isn't unusual to see them tuned to a local AM station after a big hockey game.

        • by jstott ( 212041 )

          The AM radio _antenna_, on the other hand, carries a cost. It has to be relatively long, so it either has to stick out above the car body (which few buyers like), or it has to be carefully integrated into the shape of the car body.

          You sir, obviously have no idea how an AM radio works. All AM radios built since the 30's use coil antennas where the antenna is a fine wire wrapped around a powdered-iron or ferrite rod. Total size: about three 8 cm (three inches). You can connect an external whip antenna if

          • by dhaen ( 892570 )
            No, you sir have no idea how AM radio works. The antennae you describe are completely unsuitable for mobile reception because they are directional.
          • You sir, obviously have no idea how an AM radio works. All AM radios built since the 30's use coil antennas where the antenna is a fine wire wrapped around a powdered-iron or ferrite rod. Total size: about three 8 cm (three inches). You can connect an external whip antenna if you want, and it can sometimes help signal reception, but it isn't required..

            The real reason auto makers hate AM is because electric vehicles create tons of EMI and its cheaper to get rid of the now-unusable radio than it is to avoid creating a junk AM-transmitter on wheels. That it also creates interference for everyone around them (in violation of FCC regulations and US law) is just further reason to eliminate AM radio: problem solved if there aren't any AM radios left!

            ^This. While it’s true the natural vibration modes of EM are longer for longer wavelengths, much like a string instrument, it’s not true you need a longer antenna. You can add inductance and capacitance to balance impedance and optimally transfer power by virtually becoming the rest of the missing length. So really it’s better viewed as how much energy is needed and with todays signal to noise specs on receivers, we haven’t really needed long antennas to boost that receive energy

      • Your car data is downloaded when you take your car to get serviced.

        Ford for instance will save your driving telemetry data in the radio headunit (APIM). This information is then downloaded whenever it is connected to a Ford diagnostic system, as the diagnostic system has an internet requirement for functionality. Thus you think your offline car isnâ(TM)t transmitting but you just have no idea.

        Toyota, Mazda, Honda. They all do it. GM just went brazen about it (yeah we have a sim in every car so we just

      • I mainly listen to downloaded audiobooks via bluetooth and people that do that did not even come up as a measurable group.

        Surely that's the same category as people who listen to their own music via whatever means.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
      So the older boomers have a lot of disposable income but Gen x isn't going to be like that. The retirement outlook for a Gen x is a generation is extremely bleak and barring massive changes in society they're going to be lucky to have food and shelter let alone disposable income.. ..

      The millennials and gen Z might do better but they're also not going to be listening to radio let alone AM radio.

      Basically there's a major demographic change going on and AM radio is likely to be a casualty of that.
      • So the older boomers have a lot of disposable income but Gen x isn't going to be like that. The retirement outlook for a Gen x is a generation is extremely bleak and barring massive changes in society they're going to be lucky to have food and shelter let alone disposable income.. ..

        That "massive change in society" is not that hard to achieve. The solution is to get rid of the prosperity-throttling income taxes. Stop taxing income, tax consumption instead. A luxury tax, known as the FairTax, is far more progressive than our income taxes, and would offer the world a manufacturing environment free of income taxes. World manufacturing executives would injure themselves in the stampede to build factories in the USA. Much higher factory labor wages would bring about the "massive ch

        • > The solution is to get rid of the prosperity-throttling income taxes.

          Prosperity growth post wwii suggests income taxes are, not a problem because they were much higher then. They were also much more aggressively progressive.

          I think a return to that, plus a luxury consumption tax (including a progressive energy use tax, such that energy consumption beyond a threshold is s/t a higher consumption tax rate) is a great idea.

    • by vlad30 ( 44644 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @12:01AM (#63521561)

      They also claim less than 5% of drivers listen to AM. But where do they get THAT data from? It seems unrealistic, especially for older drivers.

      Where I live some of the highest paid radio personalities are on AM radio. That correlates to audience numbers and advertising dollars in which they lead the ratings so definitely more than 5% listen to AM radio

      • by Teun ( 17872 )

        Where I live some of the highest paid radio personalities are on AM radio. That correlates to audience numbers and advertising dollars in which they lead the ratings so definitely more than 5% listen to AM radio

        You conveniently forget one thing, the 5% figure is about AM use in cars.

      • Where I live some of the highest paid radio personalities are on AM radio.

        Such as?

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Unfortunately, when you're born they assign you either "AM" or "FM" and it's impossible to change later. Otherwise all those AM personalities could just switch over to FM and everything would be fine.

        Maybe they can learn to code.

    • Most new cars are internet connected nowadays, so they transmit back telemetry data. This means, the 5% of newer, connected car drivers are listening to AM radio, not 5% of all cars. But, if you're going to make decisions for new cars, that is the number you want to know.
      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        That logic wrongly assumes early adopters have representative habits. As people replace their older cars, the percentage is very likely to increase. What automakers see now is a mix of people replacing old cars and the people who trade in every few years -- and in today's economy, probably an unusually high share of the latter.

    • then it would seem to be wise to keep AM radio since older people generally have a lot more disposable income.

      Old people do not have disposable income. You're thinking of middle aged people. Old people are overwhelmingly stretching their income to try and make retirement, or retiring on borderline survivable income. The vast majority of people past their midlife crisis are not buying new cars.

      They also claim less than 5% of drivers listen to AM. But where do they get THAT data from?

      I understand not reading TFA. I understand not reading TFS. I understand some people can't even be bothered to read more than one sentence, but in this case it literally says where they get that data from in the same sentence

    • by jmccue ( 834797 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @07:38AM (#63522049) Homepage

      Another reason to keep AM, in my area it is the only place were I can hear real local news. Many times, the local AM radio (5000 watts IIRC) will interview people on the City Council, School Committee and other local pols. All other radio/tv stations will only interview State or the State Capital pols.

      Plus, at times, it plays old radio serials from the 30s/40s and music from the 50s. Will be sad if it folds due to this change. Local News is hard enough to get, especially for older people.

    • by CEC-P ( 10248912 )
      Let me just clue you in on the factor everyone is missing. Depending on if they measured this during the NFL season or not would swing the numbers WAY one way or another.
    • Ford says 5% of ITS internet connected cars. So do you really mind sharing your listening habits with Ford, and how do you opt out? Is there a microphone listening to what you are saying inside the car too? You can also turn the speaker into a microphone - there is no cost in doing that. Will Ford also sell your speeding info to the police/insurance companies?
  • In Europe the fall started with the demise of Radio Luxembourg.
    Now it's more or less just minor stations of various kinds and I don't think that they have many listeners. The FM band with RDS is a lot better serving European car travellers.

    • by havana9 ( 101033 )
      Also in Europe it's mandatory that radio sold must have DAB reception, even if nobody it's really interested about it. So newer designs for radios, are VHF only and are using SDR chips instead of analog, so having an AM radio reception will require a totally separate circuit to manage it.
      The other slow death of AM is the rise of electromagnetic pollution caused by badly shielded digital devices and switching power supplies, and even the widespread adoption of LED lights instead of incandescent ones. Not
      • by jsonn ( 792303 )

        Also in Europe it's mandatory that radio sold must have DAB reception, even if nobody it's really interested about it.

        There are generally three reasons why people argue for USW:

        • They don't have a modern radio and don't want to invest anything.
        • Their favorite stations are not available via DAB+.
        • They live in an area where politicians forced a lip-service implementation of DAB+ with minimal bandwidth.

        Most people I know with an actual choice between DAB+ and USW vastly prefer DAB+.

      • calm down with technology! RDS and DAB are way too new technologies for north america! It took north america 30 years to embrace chip in credit card, and there's still places where you swipe magnetic and sign. Also if tech is not from USA, they will not take it, and prefer to re-invent it and try to profit from it, like the HD Radio flop.
    • In Europe the fall started with the demise of Radio Luxembourg.
      Now it's more or less just minor stations of various kinds and I don't think that they have many listeners. The FM band with RDS is a lot better serving European car travellers.

      Many European countries have stopped AM transmissions, but that's mainly because of the dense population (which makes FM signals sufficient to cover most areas) and also the rising energy costs (which lead to sudden closedowns of privately owned stations) and which will make the current hold outs disappear in the next year - at least the BBC.

      Europe also had problems because of the 2nd world war - after which they re-organised the frequencies which causes European AM to sound much worse than US AM radio (9kH

      • Many European countries have stopped AM transmissions,

        According to Wikipedia (in French) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] the only remaining transmissions are: UK (BBC 4 / BBC World), Romania (Radio Romania, Antena Satelor), Iceland (RUV 1, RUV 2), Poland (Polskie Radio), Denmark (DR Langbolge), Ireland (RTE 1).

        • That's a list of stations that transmit on long wave - which is very limited, as most AM radios sold in the UK and probably other countries don't include long wave capability. The number on medium wave is small but not that small.

      • by Teun ( 17872 )
        The OP is a very USA-specific problem, in Europe AM disappeared several years ago and governments and stations made sure there were alternatives.
        DAB+ is a digital cell-type network and providing the power-to range ratio of the cells is OK it works really well.
        In my last three or four cars I had DAB+ and I use it almost exclusively, the one exception was a station that was at first only available on FM.
        As others have already mentioned Europe is more densely populated than some states in the US so once a s
  • by thesjaakspoiler ( 4782965 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:05PM (#63521481)

    that will get rid of the of the interference.

  • Years ago (Score:5, Funny)

    by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:05PM (#63521483)

    In my home town you could get two radio stations, one AM and one FM. Sometimes you could pick up a third if the weather was perfect, but it was in French so nobody cared. The AM station announced plans to switch to FM and everyone was talking about the poor farmers out working all day who wouldn't be able to listen to the radio anymore since their combine didn't receive FM, range wasn't sufficient, etc.

    Meanwhile the farmers were all kicking back in their air conditioned cabs listening to satellite radio.

  • They should just have a place to plug in your cellphone (for hands free use of cour5se)

    • by acroyear ( 5882 )

      Yes, cell coverage can suck at times, and also the interfaces for actually selecting something to listen to on the phone can be very distracting if you haven't gone out of your way to create single-click playlists and/or streaming options depending on the music.

      Android Auto requires apps to implement special APIs to support and not every music app does it (or in the case of youtube-music, does it for free). And those APIs are only partially compatible with the new "Android Drive" mode if you're only using t

  • by maxcelcat ( 119086 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:15PM (#63521493) Homepage
    My vast nation of Australia has a serious problem with coverage by radio stations, and indeed internet and anything else that needs broadcasting. The vast majority of the population here is concentrated in a few large cities on the east coast. Which means FM radio station signals die out pretty fast as soon as you start driving from the population centres. So AM still has a role here, even if the quality is often sketchy. In fact, it's something of a life saver when there's a major emergency like a huge bushfire. In 2009, when massive fires engulfed large areas of my home state of Victoria, the AM stations of the Australian Broadcast Corporation did nothing but broadcast emergency information. There are terrifying recordings of warnings to evacuate, naming many towns. Or worse still, saying it was too late and to stay in place... Anyway, AM still has a big role here.
    • by rossdee ( 243626 )

      Fortunately Yank Fords are not sold in Ozzie.

      Presumably Ford Falcons and (GM) Holdens will still have AM radio.

    • by Canberra1 ( 3475749 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @08:32AM (#63522189)
      In Australia, there is a $1000 plus fine for holding or fiddling with your phone while driving. Military style cameras can snap you from a mile or more away, if not downlooking streetlamps. Our version of DAB is of such stingy bandwidth, quality and range is awful. Onto the car makers. An AM radio takes up less than one square inch and the marginal cost is probably about $2. Thanks to software defined radio, interference is eliminated by filters and LNB builtin the wonder-all-in one chips. Only a very badly designed electric or hybrid car has the potential for interference, and in the EU they do test stray emissions. The real reason is car companies are on the take, and hoping to get a cut on subscription services, and heated car seats etc. AM is the thin end of the wedge. The same why they try to not include USB ports everywhere. Blutooth is a pain in the A, and requires one to handle their phone ($1000 fine). As an older person -with money if was to buy a car without AM I would not buy it. Lastly with SDR- modern radios will use that, why are not frequencies user input-able to 800Mhz and above, Ham,CB, airband etc. Costs no extra. This is just a new way of moneygrubbing options, like in the old days radio was extra, fog lights extra, abs extra, lane avoidance extra .. The car makers doing this have no pride in their finished product. So give these makers the flick.
  • by will_die ( 586523 ) on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:23PM (#63521507) Homepage
    For an article that is suppose to make the case for why AM should be kept is skips lots of what have been in the past main journalist questions.
    Lack of mention of the costs or feasibility of switching stations to FM.
    Just a brief mention of the emergency event usage of AM, and no mention why FM could not do perform that action.
    Instead we get a bunch of paragraphs on how it will hurt minorities the most, with no indication on how they are any different from anyone else that relies on those AM stations.
  • Many AM stations don't offer alternative ways to listen to their shows

    If they want to stay relevant, they'd better get busy offering those alternatives!

  • But only rarely.
    1. Right wing and religious claptrap. Few care.
    2. Emergency broadcasts. Cell phone networks are better for this.
    3. Sports. Our local station went FM anyway.
    4. Rural drives. Satellite is better.

    Old tech dies. Screw the buggy whip makers.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:59PM (#63521559)

      Cell phones are useless where there is no service, thats where AM shines, very long range.

    • 2. Emergency broadcasts. Cell phone networks are better for this.

      Cell phones don't work at all when the big wind takes down their relay towers. AM radio is the only thing that works in that environment, on a signal coming from outside the disaster area. AM is the only (free) broadcast medium that can traverse hundred of miles. FM dies after 50 - 100 miles. AM is everything after that.

    • 5. AM works better in the mountains. A steep walled east-west canyon can even block out satellites since they are over the equator.

      Cell phones are also useless in the mountains. Anything with a high enough frequency to be line of sight is of limited use.

      As an aside, I was on a drive from Butte to Helena plowing through the previous night's slush and I tried to tune to the AM weather update system as per the sign.. By the time I had figured out how to get the touch screen controlled radio to the right band

    • by Shades72 ( 6355170 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @02:34PM (#63523509)

      Reading to all the comments here, people really do not appear to grasp what is the intention of radio.
      What is the purpose of radio broadcasts? To inform listeners. Can be news, music, sport, commercials, whatever.
      What does a broadcast need? 1 antenna that does the broadcasting, each listener will only have need of an antenna that receives.
      How much energy does a broadcast require? The broadcasting antenna requires a lot of power, the receiving antennas require next to no power at all.
      Th amount of power is defined by the shape and size of the broadcasting antenna, and the range the broadcasted signal needs to travel.

      FM has much better audio quality, but is very limited in range, while requiring very much power. Range and power requirements make FM a nono for emergency services. AM has much poorer audio quality, is only available in mono, requires one hell of a lot less power for the broadcasting antenna than FM does while it has tremendous range. With a severe national calamity, nothing will work as well as AM broadcasts will to inform citizens. It will be much easier to power an AM broadcasting antenna with a fuel-fed generator than it would be for a broadcasting FM antenna.

      While AM and FM receivers do not require that much power to receive the broadcasted signal, an AM receiving requires less than an FM receiver does.

      All the newer systems cannot hold a candle against the range and (relative) low power requirements of AM broadcasts when real crap hits the rotator.

      AM is however a pretty poor medium for (commercial) music broadcasts. Any other broadcasting system does that better. And by a lot, there is no denying that. We'll agree, when all is well, AM broadcasts are surpassed in practically all aspects. But in the aftermath of any serious calamity, you'll know and acquire a true appreciation of what AM is and how it will help build things back up again from the literal ashes.

      Emergency broadcasts via cell phone....the usefulness of that depends very much on the type of calamity. For the types you are still willing to envision, I'm sure those will be useful. Don't expect it to be of any help in the intermediate aftermath when San Francisco gets hit by the 'Big one". Or when the super volcano in Yellow Stone park decides to go off. For much simpler and less severe calamities, emergency broadcast via a cell phone network will work.

      Your statement about cell phone networks being the better emergency broadcast system, is much further from the mark than you dared to realize. There is no 'one solution fits all'-system for all types of calamities.

      On-topic:
      AM costs barely anything to build into a car, yet it could be a lifesaver in your car to avoid the large areas being destroyed by earthquakes, plague-infestations, floods, magma, mud-slides etc. For all I care, you'll avoid the zombies or fungi-infected as well. And all that from hundreds of miles away before accidentally arriving/passing through those areas.

  • "...less tha five percent..."

    So what? What's the percentage of drivers who ever use the jack stowed in their auto? AM radio isn't taking up any extra room and the only reason to remove it is cost savings, whatever they may be. These stats are just an excuse.

    • by Waccoon ( 1186667 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @01:25AM (#63521643)

      Boss: "Our telemetry proves that only 1% of the userbase uses this feature, so we're removing it."
      Peon: "Yeah, but... that 1% of the userbase are developers, so it's a really important 1%. We need those people to support the platform!"
      Boss: "Sorry, bud, the numbers don't lie."

      The problem with telemetry is that it's just numbers. They can mean whatever the bosses want them to mean.

    • What's the percentage of drivers who ever use the jack stowed in their auto?

      The jack is required emergency equipment and in many cases a car can't be sold without one.

      AM radio isn't taking up any extra room and the only reason to remove it is cost savings, whatever they may be. These stats are just an excuse.

      ... errr yes. That is literally how business works. You don't just spend money on shit no one needs or uses unless you have to, and you analyse data to look for reasons to remove it. I don't understand why you think this is controversial...

    • Yeah but unlike AM radio you might end up requiring the usage of a jack and spare tire. However to be completely fair, not all cars come with a jack and spare tire. I had a Golf R (2019, Mk. 7.5) that did not come with those items.

      Yes AM does take up extra room, and does cost extra, especially on a hybrid or electric vehicle. That's before the engineering cost. Ford, in particular, tends to use the same version media system in all of the same generation cars.

      I further love the invocation of "first res
  • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @12:05AM (#63521571) Homepage Journal

    If worst comes to worst, you can receive AM radio using an old earphone, a pencil, a safety pin, and a razor blade. It doesn't take many operational transmitters to completely cover the U.S. with emergency information and news.

    The best way to make sure those transmitters are ready in an emergency is to keep them in regular service. 5G won't cut it for this, the backup batteries in the towers won't even last 24 hours.

    • It absolutely does. And if you care about emergency situations you would follow the recommended practices and have a battery powered portable AM radio. The car is a great tool for getting around, that's it. If you are relying on the radio in your car as your only source of emergency information you don't have an emergency response plan, you have a death wish.

    • How many people under the age of 60 have those items laying around, including the special high impedance crystal earphone? Exactly no one.

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @12:46AM (#63521609)

    Ford says its data, pulled from internet-connected vehicles

    And my question are:

    - What business does Ford have spying on their customers?
    - Why are Ford cars even online - let alone snitching on behalf of the mothership?
    - Why is this even legal?
    - Why is nobody up in arms over this? Are people really okay with this shit now??

    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @01:06AM (#63521623)

      If you buy a Ford, you're willing to put up with way, way worse shit than being spied on.

      • My 2019 Edge ST is the most reliable car I've ever owned. With 137,000 miles on it, I leave on Wednesday for the Dayton Hamvention, 1100 miles away, with absolutely no trepidation for getting there and back reliably.

    • This is nothing, it was dystopian over a decade ago but nobody (*cough*except progressives*cough*) wants to regulate corporations.

      You carry a cell phone? A tablet? Not even a fancy schmancy smart phone, just one that has bluetooth for a headset. Congratulations! The Nordstrom, Macy's, JC Penney, Aldi, Publix, Festival, Victoria's Secret, et al., can tell you were there, and likely has your name / address available. They can even tell how long you spend in a spot down to about 4-8 feet. They can even tell
  • by Kaenneth ( 82978 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @02:19AM (#63521687) Journal

    They want the kickback from SiriusXM etc.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/0... [nytimes.com]

    "SiriusXM pays about $1 billion a year in subsidies and revenue splits to automakers, and according to the company, 75 percent of all new vehicles sold in the United States come with satellite radio installed. (It works with every major carmaker.) Of the 29.6 million subscribers to SiriusXM at the end of last year, 24.2 million paid the $11 to $20 monthly fee themselves, with the rest covered through promotions by car companies.

    “If I ask myself two questions every day,” James E. Meyer, SiriusXM’s chief executive, said in an interview, “the first one is, ‘What do I got to do to make sure people pay us $15?’ The second one: ‘What do I need to do to make sure that my position with the auto companies remains strong?’”"

    • Sirius XM is unknown outside North America .... because people outside the USA and Canada are not willing to pay for in car music ...

      • I would be reluctant to be a customer if it didn't also include a streaming app and if they weren't easy to talk down to a promo rate. With the app/smart device integrations it puts it over the top vs if it was just the car radio.
  • Biased sample .,.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JasterBobaMereel ( 1102861 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @03:43AM (#63521811)

    "Ford says its data, pulled from internet-connected vehicles" which are the least likely to listen to AM radio ...

  • When the revolution comes, AM will be the only radio still on the airwaves! I'm not sure if I'm kidding or not.
  • by sonamchauhan ( 587356 ) <sonamcNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday May 15, 2023 @05:49AM (#63521937) Journal

    AM has more humans speaking than FM. So when I tire of music and ads on repeat on FM, I tune in to AM. I'd rather listen to a human than hear the twelveteenth iteration of a chart topper.

    Yes, the AM station may be too rabid or too woke. That's a risk when humans are expressing opinions. If so, I simply change to another. My favorite is a local radio reading program for the visually impaired that reads out a selection of print news sources.

    At least Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia and Jaguar Land Rover still provide a choice for those of us who want one. The carmakers who only provide FM would probably rather have us all pay for streaming voice-heavy programming. So they can receive a cut from their 'infotainment ecosystem'. Rent-seeking is the new black.

    • (Ignore final line in the post above ~ editing glitch)

      • No, the underlying reason for this nonsense is so that the manufacturers can let the electric motors pollute the radio spectrum. They don't want to spend the bucks to quiet those electric motors. So, if you buy a portable radio to use in the car, all you'll hear is static whenever those motors move the car. The correct solution, as always, is to prohibit the pollution.

        Shielding electric motors takes metal which equals dollars and weight. However, AM radio is the canary in the coalmine. Not shielding the radio means that the humans inside and outside a car are also not shielded. There's a wealth of data about the (predominantly) negative effect of man-made electric fields, magnetic fields and electromagnetic radiation on human biology. (Don't give me "ah, but the earth has its own magnetic field and electromagnetic fields". Humans need those. Those fields are precisely wh

  • We need AM radio. In a time of crisis there may be no other method of communications given the digital methods used today. Digital TV has even less range than analog did and even then it was never meant to be used as a nationwide method of broadcasting disasters, eventhough the misguided "monthly test of the national broadcasting test" gave false hope that it would be useful.
    AM radio can be picked up by the simplest radio, a crystal radio set. Growing up in Cleveland, radio station WTAM/WWWE had 50,000 wa

  • I am GenX. I bought a Tesla Model 3 four years ago.

    Honestly, I didn't notice the lack of AM until about a month in, and that was because I was doing a deep dive, playing with the audio settings.

    In 4 years, I have never once found myself in a circumstance where I needed to tune to an AM station, only to feel burned by not having AM in the car. Oh, I see "tune into 510AM for travel info" signs along the road when on road trips, but my car literally is a computer that tells me about conditions ahead.
  • I was riding in the car with my Dad a few years ago. He loves to listen to AM radio. As we drove under some power lines, the radio cuts out, and is replaced with a 60Hz buzz. He says to me, "After all these years, you would think they would fix that!"

    I responded, "They did! It's called an FM radio!"
  • by elcor ( 4519045 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @09:16AM (#63522333)
    If an electric motor interferes in those frequencies, like a transmitter antenna...
  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @09:22AM (#63522349) Homepage
    It's all about who would gain from the end of AM broadcasting, and it's not average people.

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