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Transportation Businesses

NYC Will Charge Drivers Going Downtown (cnn.com) 239

Posted by BeauHD from the Los-Angeles-should-take-notes dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNN: President Joe Biden's administration is set to allow New York City to move forward with a landmark program that will toll vehicles entering Lower Manhattan, after a public review period ends Monday. The toll is formally known as the Central Business District Tolling Program -- but it's commonly called "congestion pricing." In practice it works like any other toll, but because it specifically charges people to drive in the traffic-choked area below 60th street in Manhattan, it would be the first program of its kind in the United States. Proposals range from charging vehicles $9 to $23 during peak hours, and it's set to go into effect next spring.

The plan had been delayed for years, but it cleared a milestone last month when the Federal Highway Administration signed off on the release of an environmental assessment. The public has until Monday to review the report, and the federal government is widely expected to approve it shortly after. From there, the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) can finalize toll rates, as well as discounts and exemptions for certain drivers.

While no other US city has yet implemented congestion pricing, Stockholm, London and Singapore have had it for years. These cities have reported benefits like decreased carbon dioxide pollution, higher average speeds, and congestion reduction. [...] The stakes of New York City's program are high, and leaders in other cities are watching the results closely. If successful, congestion pricing could be a model for other US cities, which are trying to recover from the pandemic and face similar challenges of climate change and aging public infrastructure.
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NYC Will Charge Drivers Going Downtown More

NYC Will Charge Drivers Going Downtown

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  • One way to reduce congestion (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @06:26PM (#63597012)
    I suspect many drivers in the downtown, given the already high costs of driving there, will just pay the toll. Another way is to make it cheaper to park at an outlying area and take public transportation, such as DC does where a significant percentage of commuters use regional rail/ Metro to get to work. The only time I needed a car when i was tehre wa sif I had a client in an area not served by Metro outside of the DC area.

    • Another way is to make it cheaper to park at an outlying area and take public transportation

      This. Why would I pay $35 / day to park in the city centre when I could pay $5 to park at a Park and Ride and be in the city centre 10minutes later with the train fare included? I'd spend longer than 10minutes stuck in traffic too. These are actual numbers by the way, at the P+R I use it's $5, but to get that you need to swipe your public transit card after your trip into the city, or you're back to paying the full $20 parking fare

      • This is why something that would work in NY, as it has worked in cities in Europe and Asia with extensive mass transit systems, isn't going to work in most US cities which have barely any mass transit apart from what runs on roads. In a lot of European cities you don't even need a congestion charge because almost everything in the central areas moves by train, but in the US that option typically doesn't exist. General Motors and Standard Oil did too good a job of destroying any alternatives to cars, and i

    • They need to keep raising the price of the toll until they reach the desired capacity. Where i live they did something similar for parking setting the Fee high enough that the average capacity at peak times was >80 95%. What this means is that you can always find a spot if you really want one, but it pushes a lot of people onto trains and buses.

    • London used to be horrible for traffic. Nowadays it's just unpleasant.

      Years ago, I used to work in a particular office on a particular junction - it's a busy spot at pretty much all times, and during the afternoons cars would be backed up the whole street as far as you could see from our office. Then in came the "Congestion Charge" - everyone complained tooth and nail, and claimed "people will just pay" or "businesses will close down" or whatever else.

      What actually happened was our little junction cleaned u

  • Next spring, I forsee... (Score:5, Funny)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @06:37PM (#63597036)

    it specifically charges people to drive in the traffic-choked area below 60th street in Manhattan"

    Next spring, I forsee a new, even worse traffic choke-point developing right around 61st Street.

    • Pretty much this is to be expected.

      When our city here started to charge for parking in certain districts, you could see parking spaces in the districts that got pay-to-park open up in surprising numbers, only to hear residents from those next to them lament that they can't find a parking space anymore anywhere in the whole district.

      Take a wild guess what could have been the reason.

  • on precisely the people (commuters) whose absence is the nominal problem.

    Yeah.

    New York is probably the closest you can get to European or Asian cityscapes while still technically being in America, but Europe and Asia end somewhere inside the five boroughs, and the rest of the metro area is squarely inside the United Sprawl of America.

    I am skeptical. Not to the point of being completely dismissive, but still skeptical.

  • Only the monied need apply (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DarmokandJalad ( 10147593 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @06:58PM (#63597084)

    Translation- Sad plebs and Uber drivers cause all of our traffic problems, therefore, only the wealthy are now allowed to drive on these taxpayer funded streets.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      If only people who don't drive didn't have to pay taxes to fund the streets. Wouldn't that be great?

      • If only people who don't drive didn't have to pay taxes to fund the streets. Wouldn't that be great?

        If only firefighters, ambulances and cops did not rely on streets to get to them when they call.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      How expensive is parking in NYC? In London it tends to be more expensive than the congestion charge anyway, and many car parks dropped by their prices by the cost of the congestion charge anyway. In other words it was already just rich people and commercial vehicles driving into central London.

      The London scheme has an exception for zero/very low emission vehicles, so at least you have the option of buying an EV to avoid it. Used EVs are very affordable now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      Translation- Sad plebs and Uber drivers cause all of our traffic problems, therefore, only the wealthy are now allowed to drive on these taxpayer funded streets.

      Isn't this already the case, to a lesser extent?

      Look at the infrastructure for those who can't afford a car. Across the US, it almost always is inferior to driving. If you are poor, your access to transportation (even on foot) is not a priority.

      We have regulations on the book to prioritize those who can afford to drive - such as how many park

  • Learn your place, peasants! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kurkosdr ( 2378710 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:01PM (#63597090)
    Cars for the rich (for whom $9-23 a day is nothing), but public transit for you peasants. You peasants are expected to be "green" (and also not cause congestion on those roads that are reserved for the rich).

    It goes without saying, the left won't complain about this massive social injustice.

    • Re:Learn your place, peasants! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by linuxguy ( 98493 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @12:49AM (#63597522) Homepage

      "Cars for the rich (for whom $9-23 a day is nothing), but public transit for you peasants."

      What is next? They won't let peasants fly first class for free or price of coach? What is the world coming to?

      Kidding aside, I see this as a good thing. I have seen it done in Singapore. And it works well. In congested areas, there aren't many good options. The money from the toll can be used to improve downtown areas. Don't want to pay? Take the train. Asking that everybody be allowed to drive into congested areas cost-free is not a good plan.

      • With the big difference that we are talking about a publicly-accessible road that was built by taxpayers and is now being stealth-privatized so it can be made available only to the rich people who can afford the exorbitant toll, not a privately-owned airplane. Again, the road isn't being turned into a pedestrian-only road or bus-only route or tramline, the existing car infrastructure will stay as-is, it's just that only the rich people who can afford the exorbitant toll will be allowed to access it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Aczlan ( 636310 )

        The money from the toll can be used to improve the finances of developers, consultants and contractors who are most likely contribute to re-election campaigns (or provide a cushy no-show consulting job after the politician in question "retires" from politics) as well as funding pet projects of politicians in power, some of which may accidentally improve things for city residents

        Fixed your comment with what is most likely to happen with the money with these tolls.

        Aaron Z

    • Cars for the rich (for whom $9-23 a day is nothing), but public transit for you peasants.

      I'm okay with this. The rich can fund the city infrastructure while wasting time behind the wheel while I post on Slashdot or read a book on the train. I don't understand what the appeal of driving is. Heck the first thing the super rich do is get someone else to drive for them.

      • Thing is, the road isn't being turned into a pedestrian-only road or bus-only route or tramline, the existing car infrastructure will stay as-is, it's just that only the rich people who can afford the exorbitant toll will have access to it. That's where the social injustice lies.

  • Might work (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dskoll ( 99328 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:07PM (#63597102) Homepage

    Congestion charges work when there are feasible alternatives to cars. That's definitely the case in Singapore, London and Stockholm. And maybe NYC. But I think there are very few other cities in North America that have the transit infrastructure in place for this to work.

    • Re: Might work (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anubis350 ( 772791 )
      As a NYer whoâ(TM)s spent time in London: NYC has a *substantially* bigger public transit system than London does, FWIW, you dont need a car to get around most of the city That said this is going to penalize large chunks of folks in Brooklyn, Queens, and on Long Island when they need to drive out of the city, either directly via the toll or indirectly by shifting congestion north onto roads that cant really handle more either, so thereâ(TM)s that My feeling is overall it probably will help thing

  • The federal DOT might disagree
    https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/conge... [dot.gov]
    "Congestion Pricing: Examples Around the U.S."

    • Maybe no other CITY has done this, but it has been a thing in the DC suburbs (Northern Virginia) for some time. The HOT lanes going in to DC can get as high as $40 if congestion is bad enough.
  • We don't need big cities any more. Let the businesses spread out. Congestion pricing will help accomplish that.

  • Uber (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Monday June 12, 2023 @08:13PM (#63597200)
    The article says "Taxis and for-hire vehicles will be tolled only once a day." Is Taxi defined as a holder of a Taxi Medallion? (I would think so since otherwise everybody will identify as a "taxi" for free re-entry). So this may prompt a resurgence of legit taxes, or equivalently a shortage of (pirate) taxis.

  • Allow cars toll-free access on certain days of the week (say, 3 weekdays - assigned randomly, or using a set of choices on a registration website). Toll them on the other days. People can work this into hybrid work schedules - they'd WFH on the toll days and drive in toll free on other days.

    To be equitable, don't toll certain 'infrastructure' vehicles (like of cleaners, maintenance or delivery people) that are required to drive in each day. Or provide vouchers to the owners, that they can claim back tolls w

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by lsllll ( 830002 )
      Other cities like Tehran tried this at times with some success. You would even go with schemes like "if your license plate ends with A-M or 0-4, then you can go in on Mon Wed and others can go Tue Thu, with some sort of other arrangement for Friday". Then levy heavy fines for those who get caught others. If the purpose is to cut down on the traffic, that should help a little.

      • The net effect in my country was that people got a cheap second car to drive on the "forbidden" days. Since that second car was usually some old, beat up car that barely managed to get past inspection and was nowhere near modern exhaust standards, the net result was an increase in pollution.

  • To lower the sirens of police, firetrucks, ambulances. Not sure there's a benefit of being say at 120dB over 100dB. The cost is it drives everyone effing insane, disturbs sleep, causes stress and hearing impaiment. Pulling a number out of my ass, but I woildmt surprised if the cost for NYC was in the tens or hundreds of millions in indirect damages.

  • Get ready for the lawsuits, as long as they're using tax payer money to fund those roads, they won't be able to charge tolls easily.

  • The second link shows the proposed tolling infrastructure, which uses mast arms full of cameras that track vehicle license plates. It says those without the toll pass will be sent a bill (I assume with an additional fine) to the address registered to their vehicle, so the first question is how would this work with out-of-state cars? Second, this reminds me of the tracking infrastructure in China, with licence plate cameras on masts dotted every kilometer or so tracking the movement of every car across the

    • It says those without the toll pass will be sent a bill (I assume with an additional fine)

      Why add a fine? This is how they do the tolls on the golden gate now.

      the first question is how would this work with out-of-state cars?

      That's not a serious question, or you're not a serious person. The state requires you to be able to receive mail at the address at which your car is registered.

  • It's a privilege, the rich can do what the poor cannot.

    • Congestion is a form of pollution - and, of course, cars generate lots of other pollution as well. So a congestion charge corrects a market failure. If you want to give the poor the money to be able to pay to pollute, then fair enough - but don't hide behind such slogans to protect rich and poor polluters from paying for the pollution they cause.

  • Oh yes, the traffic did fall off in London.... for a bit, then people just sucked it up and paid, then they put a "clean air zone " on TOP of the congestion charge, for another 12 quid charge. If the congestion charge was working, then why a separate clean air charge?? It's a tax on poor people who can't afford new cars with ultra low smog systems.

  • Do what other cities do (Score:3)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:01AM (#63597662)

    Slap a congestion charge where you don't want people to go in their cars, and ensure there is adequate public transportation that there is no reason they even should. I'm sure a few rich assholes will abuse the system, but it will still achieve it's objectives of reducing traffic and moving people to public transportation.

  • If you build roads and people can't use them because they are too busy, you fucked up.

    Maybe you just should have built the roads differently, but more likely you should have built something else.

    What's worse, they did build something else, but they don't take sufficiently good care of it that people want to use it. Nobody rides the subway by choice, unless they have a fetish for anonymous body fluids.

    • I've lived & worked in major cities in a few countries. All of them had metro systems & in all cases, they were by far the best way to get around.

      In contrast, Toronto doesn't have a very good metro, i.e. only 2 lines that don't give access to much of the city. I used to catch the streetcar to get to work downtown, which mixes with regular car traffic. There isn't the streetcar or metro capacity to keep up with demand so too many people drive in as well. The result is that you get half way into th
  • Re: "If successful, congestion pricing could be a model for other US cities..." - So... the models in Stockholm, London, & Singapore aren't any good?

  • For some god-awful reason, Google Maps thinks the fastest way from New Jersey to Connecticut is through New York City over the George Washington Bridge.

    This is usually terrible advice, as you normally get stuck in a 45-minute traffic jam driving through New York City. Plus, you get to pay $15 in tolls for the "privilege" of doing so. You're usually better off driving North a bit and taking the new Tappan Zee bridge instead.

    Maybe this additional congestion pricing will be what it takes for Google to fix thei

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