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The Almighty Buck Government

NYC Establishes First Minimum Wage For Food Delivery Workers (gothamist.com) 128

New York City's food delivery workers will be guaranteed a minimum wage for the first time under new regulations announced by Mayor Eric Adams. Gothamist reports: Tens of thousands of delivery workers are slated to make at least $17.96 per hour plus tips by July 12, and at least $19.96 an hour by 2025, city officials said. That's a sharp increase from what delivery workers make now. Many take home less than the city's minimum wage of $15 an hour. The $19.96 hourly rate is less than the $23.82 the Department of Consumer and Worker Protections originally proposed last November -- but is still almost three times more than what delivery workers currently make, according to the city agency.

Sunday's announcement comes after months of back-and-forth between delivery workers, elected officials and app companies over the minimum wage rates. City officials blew past a Jan. 1 deadline set by City Council legislation to establish the new wage rules. Delivery companies, like Uber and DoorDash, argued that the new legislation will force a raise in prices and less schedule flexibility, while some advocates claim these companies are manipulating employees into testifying against the measure. DoorDash spokesperson Eli Scheinholtz said the company was considering litigation against the city over the new pay rules.
"The ones that bring you pizza in the snow, and that Thai food you like in the rain," said Mayor Adams. "This new minimum pay rate will guarantee these workers, and their families, can earn a living. They should not be delivering food to your household, if they can't put food on the plate in their household."
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NYC Establishes First Minimum Wage For Food Delivery Workers

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  • So stop tipping? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xaosflux ( 917784 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:24PM (#63600222) Homepage

    Assuming the big rate change here is that these staffers are being changed from contractors or tipped-workers, to standard workers. Assuming we should expect 'delivery fees' to significantly increase, and offset that by ditching tips?

    • Re: So stop tipping? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by topham ( 32406 )

      This will decimate the legitimate industry, it'll go grey market instead.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Like all those other industries when people received pay bumps?

      • Seriously, are you going to order from the delivery equivalent of a shady food truck? At that point why not just cut out the middle man and take a laxative if you wanna spend 48 hours on the toilet in pain...
      • This will decimate the legitimate industry, it'll go grey market instead.

        Or maybe people will realise that it's not actually that hard to just pick up their own damn dinner, and start doing it themselves.

        • Or maybe people will realise that it's not actually that hard to just pick up their own damn dinner, and start doing it themselves.

          Last time I visited America I saw a fast food restaurant that serves food direct to your car. I think the idea of picking up your own dinner is beyond many people out there, especially those who can't even be arsed getting out of the car to eat their fast food.

          • by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

            Last time I visited America I saw a fast food restaurant that serves food direct to your car. I think the idea of picking up your own dinner is beyond many people out there, especially those who can't even be arsed getting out of the car to eat their fast food.

            It's worth noting that that style of restaurant is based on "1950's drive-in restaurant" nostalgia. Said restaurants have no inside seating and usually have some limited patio seating. You do not generally drive away when the food comes but rather eat in your car in the bay you pulled into or at one the patio tables. Meal is typically followed by ice cream.

            Not to say there aren't plenty of lazy people in the US, but picking on drive-ins doesn't prove the point you think you're making.

        • Or maybe people will realise that it's not actually that hard to just pick up their own damn dinner, and start doing it themselves.

          Not the best option when you've been drinking...I thought you wanted us to stay off the road when we've had a few....?

          That's when a LOT of delivery service is used my friend....

          • So don't drink until after the food is there. Maybe there would be great drink drivers if b people could just think ahead a little bit.
            • So don't drink until after the food is there. Maybe there would be great drink drivers if b people could just think ahead a little bit.

              Ok, maybe a common scenario would help.

              You have a bunch of guys over to the house to watch college football all Saturday.

              You're drinking beer all day...towards the end of the day, you're all wanting something to eat...

              You don't want to drive then....so, you order delivery.

              • You're drinking beer all day....

                I think I found your problem.

                • You're drinking beer all day....

                  I think I found your problem.

                  I take it you don't have a lot of friends that you gather with regularly to watch sporting events, or the like?

                  The scenario I describe is VERY common in the US during college football season....where you have games being played ALL day every Saturday for about half the year....

                  • So you see a game on TV and you have to drink beer? EVERYONE has to drink beer? Wow, Americans are sure well trained consumers.
                    • That is not true. We suddenly, collectively all decided to stop drinking Bud Light for example. Oh wait.

          • This story is about New York City. Surely in New York City there are plenty of places within walking distance, no driving necessary.

      • by torkus ( 1133985 )

        You mean back to where restaurants don't have to pay uber, grubhub, etc. extortion and can just sell food to customers? ... and then have sufficient money to pay their own delivery guy(s) to bring out food?

        It would sure be nice. I never had a problem getting food delivered BEFORE it cost me 20+ bucks and pre-tipping.

        • You mean back to where restaurants don't have to pay uber, grubhub, etc. extortion and can just sell food to customers? .

          Wait, what? I could have sworn working with UberEats and Grubhub was voluntary on the part of the restaurant. If you want to limit your reach and volume, you can decline to participate.

          You may go out of business because you'll have far fewer customers but it's a (less and less every day) free country.

          (Legally speaking though, when I buy through a food delivery service, who am I transacting with? I don't use any of the services so I don't know. Am I buying the food from the restaurant and they pay Uber to de

      • Like it has in Europe where they get (a higher) minimum wage, and Tips are not really a thing ...

    • so no, I wouldn't stop tipping. nvmid that these are mostly people using their own vehicles.

      If you can't afford to pay your delivery driver get your damn food.
      • 30 years ago a coworker of mine quit his job to go work in NYC for a $15K/year raise... he was back in 3 months as it took him that long to convince our boss to take him back... back then $15K over Boston pay for an Engineer wouldn't support working in NYC. I imagine these days that to live and work in NYC you've got to be making over $130K... minimum, for a single person, and even then, your apt will have rats and your super will charge you for them, calling them 'pets'!
  • by lsllll ( 830002 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:33PM (#63600260)
    A waitress' wage in NYC is $14.20 as subsidized by tips [dol.gov], but a delivery worker has no limit and starts at a minimum of $17.96 and not limited at all by tips while per-mile reimbursement rate for driving your car (not that the delivery guy is getting money back for the miles, but it's a good measure for the wear and tear on the car) is 65.6 cents per mile [irs.gov]? How does that make sense?
    • by Local ID10T ( 790134 ) <ID10T.L.USER@gmail.com> on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:56PM (#63600324) Homepage

      Pay the waitress a decent wage. Problem solved.

      Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.

      • Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.

        Further to this, it also allows greedy asshole customers to delude themselves that "trickle-down economics" actually works.

      • by torkus ( 1133985 )

        Pay the waitress a decent wage. Problem solved.

        Move to Europe...problem solved. Oh, and that pesky healthcare thing too.

      • Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.

        A number of high profile restaurants have tried this and AFAIK they've all walked it back. I don't know if it was resistance from the wait staff or customers. I personally really liked getting paid in tips because (a) I could evade income taxes and (b) I could (could, not would) make bank if I did a really good job. I think some, but definitely not all, waiters who agree with me. IIRC, the wait staff generally supported the idea of tipless dining before it was put in place. The experiments I remember genera

        • A number of high profile restaurants have tried this and AFAIK they've all walked it back. I don't know if it was resistance from the wait staff or customers. I personally really liked getting paid in tips because (a) I could evade income taxes and (b) I could (could, not would) make bank if I did a really good job. I think some, but definitely not all, waiters who agree with me. IIRC, the wait staff generally supported the idea of tipless dining before it was put in place. The experiments I remember generally increased their wages so they should have taken home the same amount of cash. If anyone knows why these experiments failed, please share.

          I don't know anything about that specific experiment but from speaking to people working in bars and restaurants, they all fucking loved tips. And I don't blame them, who'd give up $20 for bringing a bottle of wine to the table. Maybe some customers missed being able to threaten waiters by withholding tips too. I dunno.

          I fucking haaate tipping, holy shit. I'm all for people earning a good wage but for fuck's sake just include it in the bill and don't force me to choose between fucking myself or being an ass

      • by poet ( 8021 )

        Yes and no.

        I agree that the server should be provided at least minimum wage and I also agree that should that server go above and beyond to make my meal a positive experience, they should be tipped.

        I absolutely agree that servers that are paid some ridiculous low hour wage (2.15 or whatever) and rely on tips supplement is just plain wrong.

    • by torkus ( 1133985 )

      1) the VAST majority of NYC delivery is via (illegal, unregistered, uninsured) scooters, mopeds, and e-bikes
      2) the wage difference is shy of 4 bucks/hr which is about 5 miles at 66c each - drivers in central manhattan will probably drive about that in an hour
      3) drivers get tips equal to what waitstaff do, but they get them BEFORE accepting the delivery
      4) wait staff show up to work...delivery drivers need (some kind of) vehicle so there's capital investment, maintenance, and responsibility

      Oh, and 5) wait sta

      • by lsllll ( 830002 )

        1) the VAST majority of NYC delivery is via (illegal, unregistered, uninsured) scooters, mopeds, and e-bikes

        So what you're saying is that it's even cheaper than what I thought.

        2) the wage difference is shy of 4 bucks/hr which is about 5 miles at 66c each - drivers in central manhattan will probably drive about that in an hour

        They'll drive that an hour, and deliver to 3-4 places, getting 3-4 times the tip. And 66c per mile is for a car, so driving on a scooter has even lower overhead.

        4) wait staff show up to work...delivery drivers need (some kind of) vehicle so there's capital investment, maintenance, and responsibility

        Refer to your #1 (illegal, unregistered, uninsured). And we already accounted for 66c per mile.

    • It doesn't make sense, but neither does pointing to one example of a crap practice when addressing another. A delivery worker now has a minimum wage. Great. Your comment shouldn't say "How does this make sense" it should be "Do waitresses next!"

    • A waitress' wage in NYC is $14.20 as subsidized by tips...

      This was my reaction too. I fail to see the logic behind having different minimum wages based on your job definition. Surely if a living wage is $15, it doesn't matter whether you're waiting tables, delivering pizzas, or shoveling ditches.

      I like to follow the money. What interest group was behind this? I don't see restaurants benefitting, this just increases prices which is going to reduce volume. Maybe they resent the food delivery companies but I can't see being so resentful you'd cut off a big chunk of

  • need to cover congestion pricing, parking & tolls in NYC as well.

  • I must be old. To make $20/hour I had to have actual skills, take on responsibilities, and consistently deliver more than $20/hour in value.

    • $20/hour in New York City wouldn't even get you a shoebox in terms of rent.
    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      I must be old. To make $20/hour I had to have actual skills, take on responsibilities, and consistently deliver more than $20/hour in value.

      How far back along the graph [statista.com] do we have to go for that, gramps? In 1933, that'd have been equivalent to the purchasing power of $400/hr, before the last three years of inflation.

      If Congress had continued to increase the minimum wage in line with productivity growth since [the 1968 historical high point of the minimum wage at $11.12 per hour in today's dollars], the min [epi.org]

      • Only 1 of the jobs in your last link pays $20/hour or more. I'm all for paying people for their work, I understand history and I don't have the same buying power as my father. I suppose I do not value driving short distances and walking door to door. If you want to get paid a real wage do real work, don't expect a part time delivery job to pay the rent.

        • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

          Only 1 of the jobs in your last link pays $20/hour or more.

          But they all pay minimum wage, and since you ignored it, I shall repeat it: "If Congress had continued to increase the minimum wage in line with productivity growth since [the 1968 historical high point of the minimum wage at $11.12 per hour in today's dollars], the minimum wage today would be over $22 per hour."

          If you want to get paid a real wage do real work, don't expect a part time delivery job to pay the rent.

          Ah, yes, the unreasonable expectati [businessinsider.com]

        • A "real job" or "real work"? Are you serious? What counts as "real" in your opinion? Are there "non-real people" & are you one of them? In which case it wouldn't matter if everyone completely ignores you & hopes you go away with your offensive, belittling opinions.
          • Sure, I'll go away, as soon as you are willing to call 'going away' my job and you pay me $20/hour to go away. And I'll expect to pay the rent with my "going away job". So be sure that I can afford the rent in the place I choose to live, doing the going away I'm willing to do.

            • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

              Sure, I'll go away, as soon as you are willing to call 'going away' my job and you pay me $20/hour to go away.

              Nope. That's unskilled bullshit labor that you yourself claim can be paid at the lowest possible rate, so I'll be setting up a GoFundMe for you and paying you the tipped hourly rate until this post is archived.

              And I'll expect to pay the rent with my "going away job".

              I've got a kickass refrigerator box for you. It only costs 75% of your tipped hourly rate.

              So be sure that I can afford the rent in t

              • Interesting how your way requires tips *and* GoFundMe.

                • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

                  Interesting how your way requires tips *and* GoFundMe.

                  So do the lives of the unskilled workers that you're competing against.

                  BTW, you're already failing to satisfy the job requirements. I'm putting you on a performance improvement plan. You get one more warning.

                  • The thing is, you can't pay me $20/hour to go away because it doesn't make any sense. I don't go away for tips. I want what was offered in this thread, $20/hr and do that part time and then pay the rent where I want to live. Someone linked to an article to says we did it in the 50s. Is it the socialism approach or the MAGA approach that gets us back to the 50s? Because both sides seem to be claiming that goal now. That is a bullshit mirage, we need to move forward and not back.

                    Ever check the income tax stru

                    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

                      I want what was offered in this thread, $20/hr and do that part time and then pay the rent where I want to live.

                      Nobody offered you that. In fact, you dismissed the idea as being ludicrous.

                      Someone linked to an article to says we did it in the 50s.

                      And the 60s.

                      That is a bullshit mirage, we need to move forward and not back.... You want to fix income inequality? Okay great.... People need opportunities and a fair shake, most people should not need assistance....

                      You finally get it. But only when it comes to d

    • If you are old and you recall making $20 an hour, then you're not even remotely talking about the same financial value as we are now. If you're old enough to lament about a $20/hour job and complain about responsibilities, then you are taking about jobs that would command $35/h+ today.

      When you're done shouting at clouds, jump on the Khan academy and read up on the basics of inflation and the change of monetary value over time.

    • I made $20 / hr in college (early 90s), with no appreciable skills.

      I was doing office temp work on the days I didn't have class. The only skill required was show up on short notice, look presentable, do basic office stuff -typing, sorting, filing, answer phones, sit at a desk...

  • >heeeeey why is food suddenly so expensive?
    of course some silly leftist/prog will chime in with
    >but billionaires... something something class consciousness blah blah

    it's all so tiresome. i'm sorry for the unpopular opinion, but food delivery/food service etc should not be part of the 'living wage' conversation. what's next, paperboys need to make 50k a year + benefits?

    • In the capitalist conversation they are providing a service the economy demands and from that framework they are workers providing value (not saying this is right but that's how capitalism works).

      Income inequality is actually part of the problem though since so much of the money supply is locked up in so few hands that contributes to costs rising so much faster than wages sometimes. Not it's not the whole story, probably not even a majority but to deny I don't think it can be denied that it doesn't contri

  • AB5 would have really put pressure on these third-party meal services, yet they were able to persuade enough people through Prop 22 that abiding by the rules of other food establishments would cause people to miss their weekly burrito deliveries.

    They'll try the same in New York. Be smarter, New York.

  • The thing is, the reason food delivery workers get paid so poorly is because there is a large number of people willing and wanting to do the job. If people were not able to make ends meet doing that job, they would stop doing it and do something else and that would create a lack of supply of delivery drivers. This would drive up the pay rates of delivery drivers because companies would not be able to get workers. What exactly does setting a high minimum wage for a job do? Well for starters, lots more peopl
  • "Food delivery workers" sounds like "employees". And the gig-based services like Doordash and Uber Eats are not employers and they don't have employees. It's independent individual contractors who are subscribing to a dispatch service from a "technology company". So none of this applies to them. It's only for restaurants that directly employ their very own delivery drivers.

    Is that right?

  • My experience with minimum wage is that they pay you the minimum no matter what you do and the extra illegally in cash into your pocket.

  • EVERYTHING that stimulates COMMON MAN towards to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]

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