Comcast Complains To FCC That Listing All of Its Monthly Fees is Too Hard (arstechnica.com) 109
mschaffer shares a report: Comcast and other ISPs have annoyed customers for many years by advertising low prices and then charging much bigger monthly bills by tacking on a variety of fees. While some of these fees are related to government-issued requirements and others are not, poorly trained customer service reps have been known to falsely tell customers that fees created by Comcast are mandated by the government. The FCC rules will force ISPs to accurately describe fees in labels given to customers, but Comcast said it wants the FCC to rescind a requirement related to "fees that ISPs may, but are not obligated to, pass through to customers." These include state Universal Service fees and other local fees. As Comcast makes clear, it isn't required to pass these costs on to customers in the form of separate fees. Comcast could stop charging the fees and raise its advertised prices by the corresponding amount to more accurately convey its actual prices to customers. Instead, Comcast wants the FCC to change the rule so that it can continue charging the fees without itemizing them..
I suppose it's just easier to grab people's money than it is to make up names for the fees, Mschaffer adds.
I suppose it's just easier to grab people's money than it is to make up names for the fees, Mschaffer adds.
The cable co's even lost my luggage (Score:4, Funny)
Like the Flux Capacitor Fee.
Great Scott! (Score:4, Funny)
Like the Flux Capacitor Fee.
I bet the employee who came up with that got a bonus - it lets them retroactively add the fee to all your past bills too!
Screw them. (Score:5, Insightful)
They're basically saying, "Uhhh..we don't want people realize how much we're charging them..uhh please let us keep deceptive billing practices that are effective. It would be devastating if people actually understood what we were charging and our marketing"
Take the screws to them and simplify prices, make them charge it inclusively so they can't use deceptive marketing.
Re:Screw them. (Score:4, Insightful)
I always admired the chutzpah Comcast shows by charging something like $25/month for providing your local broadcast channels to you (and not giving you a choice to *not* get the local channels).
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At the risk of sound like a shill, that's actually why I like Sling. You can just get a bare over-the-top cable package and provide your own OTA channels with an antenna
Re: Screw them. (Score:2)
Re:Screw them. (Score:5, Insightful)
They're basically saying, "Uhhh..we don't want people realize how much we're charging them..uhh please let us keep deceptive billing practices that are effective. It would be devastating if people actually understood what we were charging and our marketing"
Take the screws to them and simplify prices, make them charge it inclusively so they can't use deceptive marketing.
Yea, the come - on pricing is deceptive; but if they did advertise and all in one price, anytime the fees change they'd need to raise prices and while the small print would not doubt allow that we'd all be screaming how there "price guarantee" was false advertising. Plus, fees could vary within a service area; and of course Comcast would simply bundle in all the fees at the highest rate... With any luck 5G will help break their monopoly over the lines so new providers can move in to compete. I suspect some MVNOs will decide to be ISPs as well, especially those owned by the large cell phone companies. That could also break apartment complex monopolies as well.
Re:Screw them. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like comcast is the only business that has variable costs associated with providing service. In fact, they have more control than many others - at least they can negotiate the cost for rebroadcasting local channels or whatever sports package. Airlines have to buy jet fuel to make their planes go. Yes, the negotiate future contracts to hedge against large swings but they ultimately must buy their go-juice on the global commodities market.
Yet I can buy a plane ticket for next year - taxes and fees upfront included in the DISPLAYED price - and that seat is mine. They don't get to come back later and add a fuel surcharge to my ticket if prices go up after I bought it.
Comcast is a terrible, awful company and they deserve to be forced to abuse their customers slightly less.
Re: Screw them. (Score:2)
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Yea, the come - on pricing is deceptive; but if they did advertise and all in one price, anytime the fees change they'd need to raise prices and while the small print would not doubt allow that we'd all be screaming how there "price guarantee" was false advertising
Right, their price guarantee is false advertising, as they make it look like your bill will be only X dollars, and then they work around it by adding 'fees'.
I don't get extra fees from my ISP, and they're quite large. Prices with this company are different based on the service area, that's just a fact, and the services they offer. No one has said comcast shouldn't be able to put different prices per region. It's the deceptive billing practices.
Also, then we rightly should be upset when they raise the price
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How often do the fees change that this is a legitimate concern?
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Yea, the come - on pricing is deceptive; but if they did advertise and all in one price, anytime the fees change they'd need to raise prices and while the small print would not doubt allow that we'd all be screaming how there "price guarantee" was false advertising.
You are correct that the price guarantee would be false advertising if they raised prices. But that was their choice to advertise it as a "price guarantee", and their choice to raise prices. They should be sued by their customers, and lose, for false advertising if they do that.
They don't "need" to raise prices if the fees go up, that is an active decision by them. If they don't want to get screwed by their own "price guarantee', then they shouldn't use it as a marketing tactic, then try to weasel out of i
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Yea, the come - on pricing is deceptive; but if they did advertise and all in one price, anytime the fees change they'd need to raise prices and while the small print would not doubt allow that we'd all be screaming how there "price guarantee" was false advertising.
You are correct that the price guarantee would be false advertising if they raised prices. But that was their choice to advertise it as a "price guarantee", and their choice to raise prices. They should be sued by their customers, and lose, for false advertising if they do that.
They don't "need" to raise prices if the fees go up, that is an active decision by them. If they don't want to get screwed by their own "price guarantee', then they shouldn't use it as a marketing tactic, then try to weasel out of it when costs go up - that's the entire point of a "price guarantee" - the company takes the risk of rising costs, not the customer.
I agree, and the only company I've ever felt stuck to a pice guarantee is T-Mobile. Most price guarantees, whether for cell service or price matching, are ruses to get you to buy a product under the assumption you are getting the best price and thus need not shop around.
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Comcast could stop charging the fees and raise its advertised prices by the corresponding amount to more accurately convey its actual prices to customers.
Or, Comcast could stop charging the fees and keep its advertised prices exactly the same. Heaven forbid they actually make less of a profit.
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"Poorly trained" (Score:5, Insightful)
Poorly trained? Horse shit. They are very carefully trained to read very-carefully worded bullshit that leads the caller to infer that the fees are imposed by government, without actually saying that the fees are imposed by government.
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Re: "Poorly trained" (Score:2)
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B****SH&&&&T (Score:5)
I have a local ISP that literally charges me $39.99/mo for 500 Mbps. No extra fees, no extra taxes, nada. If they can do it, Comcast and any of the other big providers can do the same, it's not complicated at all. Comcast is just a greedy, parasitic ISP.
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1GB here for 70$ a month, hasnt changed in a years
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I have a local ISP that literally charges me $39.99/mo for 500 Mbps. No extra fees, no extra taxes, nada. If they can do it, Comcast and any of the other big providers can do the same, it's not complicated at all. Comcast is just a greedy, parasitic ISP.
Yea, I went to 300Mbs 5G service at 1/3 the price, and get about the same speeds as I did before for higher speed service. It's fast enough for streaming and surfing, only thing that is much worse is upload speeds but I can live with that as I rarely upload anything large.
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aebc.com for any of my BC neighbours, highly recommended.
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I got a better reason why this is bullshit. The inability to list fees shows an inability to understand your own fee structure and therefore means that what is being charged has a high risk of being incorrect. A company which can't charge the correct fee to its customers shouldn't be in business.
If they can charge the fee, they have a way of calculating the fee. If that have that then they can publish how it's done. It's really not more complicated than that.
Hahahaha (Score:2)
Cough up your fee structure, comcast. Pay some college intern $16 per hour to make a spreadsheet with the figures and go ahead with your regularly scheduled 6 martini lunch.
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Funny you mention the ingredient list on a food package because the broadband consumer labels look exactly like those nutrition labels on packaged food.
https://www.fcc.gov/broadbandl... [fcc.gov]
No problem (Score:2)
Anything you can't declare, you can't charge. Deal?
The real problem is ... (Score:4, Funny)
Comcast said it wants the FCC to rescind a requirement related to "fees that ISPs may, but are not obligated to, pass through to customers"
Comcast can't figure out how to list all their (bogus) fees w/o having to also list: "Fee to list all monthly fees" ...
What they usually do (Score:2)
We keep voting for pro-corporate asshole politicians because of moral panics and culture war issues. So this is what we get.
Re: What they usually do (Score:2)
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We keep voting for pro-corporate asshole politicians because of moral panics and culture war issues. So this is what we get.
Ya, but not wanting you or others to get reamed is woke -- can't have that. /s :-)
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Comcast can't figure out how to list all their (bogus) fees w/o having to also list: "Fee to list all monthly fees" ...
Brilliant - thanks for my second laugh in this set of posts!
Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
I typically figure paying for cable to day is like the people that still pay for AOL dial up. They probably don't even realize they are still paying for cable.
Because there is no rational reason to pay for cable today, right?
Re:Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:4, Insightful)
Classic 'Cable' is no longer a thing. Unless you are in the boonies.
for some that is the only way to get on line speed (Score:2)
for some that is the only way to get on line with good speed.
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:4, Informative)
In many places, the only broadband ISP is Comcast cable, aka Xfinity.
So, no, it's not irrational. I pay them for Internet and nothing else. No cable TV. I have an OTA , blu rays and streaming for video content.
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
Agree. But 5G in my area is actually 1kbps, so it's not like I have a real choice. Xfinitys 10G delivers 120 Mbps upstream, 1400 Mbps downstream. It could be worse. Was 35 Mbps upstream until last month.
The price is not great though. $80/month. But no data cap at least.
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
Zoom works fine with async. No issues. But the service really should be symmetrical. Alas, I've been waiting for 13 years and all AT&T could deliver is 128 kbps IDSL.
And I live in San jose...
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
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Xfinitys 10G
10G? Really? I have seen ads strongly implying that Xfinity is offering 10G, but those speeds only exist in the backbone, not in the last mile.
Re: Amazed people still pay for Cable (Score:2)
It's their marketing, of course. Not reality. It delivers 1.2% of 10Gbps upstream, and 14% downstream. So far . They ate supposed to be upgrading the network though to be symmetrical, but who knows when.
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For example, in areas where the phone land-line network used to be run by GTE North, Verizon bought it out and ran it into the ground (charitably, we can say they mismanaged it and failed to prioritize basic maintenance because land lines weren't a priority for them since they were principally a mobile-phone company; less charitably, we could accuse them of deliberately destroying the land-line service to f
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DSL is basically a dead technology unless you are using site telephone wiring to share a fiber line run into a multi-tenant building. There's literally nothing Frontier can do to improve home-to-telco DSL other than replace the copper with fiber, at which point it no longer is DSL.
This is why Verizon sold it off - land line business is dying, and it's not a viable ISP business any more.
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Sounds like they need to be audited (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like they need to be audited. They just confessed that their accounting is shit. That smells like trouble. They need a court-mandated audit, by an independent auditor, at their expense.
Whassat? A big pile of cash? Nevermind.
I hate Comcast, but ... (Score:3)
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Government hates admitting that they drive up the cost of goods and services. At the same time, it would behoove Comcast to show their customers a proper accounting of exactly how much that is true.
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Comcast is *hardly* the only business that (gleefully) wants its customers to know how much money they're forced to collect from its customers that's then handed back to some government (federal or state... whatever). They refuse to roll up all the fees/taxes and present the total as 'their' charge for the product/service. They want their customers to know how much stinky old regulators are grabbing money out of customers' pockets.
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Comcast certainly isn't telling anyone which parts of their fees are due to governments or other businesses upcharging them and how much is Comcast just being greedy/disingenuous.
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Well, in civilised countries like Australia,
The advertised price is the price you pay.
Not like the USA, where they add on sales tax, then tips, then resort fees, then local govt fees.
But you know,unbridled capitalism ftw.
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BTW, even a "Google Fiber" bill for $100/m
Hello from Europe $9 for 300mbps optic fiber... (Score:3)
title says it all...
Re:Hello from Europe $9 for 300mbps optic fiber... (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this the socialism that republicans claim to be protecting me from? I thought the free market was supposed to offer endless competition and rock bottom prices.
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No, its population density and government subsidies which exist in all economic systems.
The population density and urbanisation of most major US cities is far higher than in Europe. This should be counted in America's favour and produce lower prices there. Yet people living in downtown Chicago are still getting ***fucked by Comcast.
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The competition is provided by the number of telecom cables outside your house, since the USA does not have a separate last-mile provider (which is a US-ian consequence of private ownership). Each telecom company is careful to not put their cable beside a competing provider, so it's really a cartel, not a free market.
The US government protects this cartel by allowing various forms of fraud.
I'm paying Comcast $80/mo for UP TO 1.2 gbps down (Score:3)
like 35 mbps up... getting 331 mbps down right now - with their 1 TB cap. Usually it's around 600 tops.
They fuck with the plans all the time and I have to jump from 'special promo' to 'special promo' every year to avoid paying 50%+ more.
They aren't regulated nearly enough for their local monopoly.
the airlines are forced to list the full all cost (Score:2)
The airlines are forced to list the full all cost.
With all taxes and fees that do very from airport to airport.
But no Comcast likes to have the nice low price in the National ads that does show the real cost that verys in each market.
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It's not just Comcast (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife wanted to sign up for Vasa gym as they were advertising $9.99 / month. By the time they tacked on non-negotiable fees, it was over $40 / month (includes a fee to guarantee the membership won't raise the following year). We consumers need to know the real price before we sign on the dotted line.
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My wife wanted to sign up for Vasa gym as they were advertising $9.99 / month. By the time they tacked on non-negotiable fees, it was over $40 / month (includes a fee to guarantee the membership won't raise the following year). We consumers need to know the real price before we sign on the dotted line.
We customers need the courts to enforce the law.
If you sign on the line and it says 9.99, it should be a simple no-effort way to submit that plus the bill to court and forcibly extract any additional charges above 9.99, plus fines for fraud.
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Hard? (Score:2)
Bill it (Score:2)
If you're able to bill it, you're able to list it.
Oh great (Score:3)
Now they'll add a "monthly fee listing fee," even though they don't list the fees.
Should be against the law... (Score:2)
It should be against the law to advertise a price and charge a different price. That's called fraud.
Why Americans put up with that BS is beyond me.
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Why Americans put up with that BS is beyond me.
Being taught that government=bad and corporations=good. In evil socialist Europe the sticker price is what you pay.
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In other countries, that is usually the case. Where I live, there must be a clear stated total price, including all taxes, fees etc. If you want, you can also list the price without tax, or list the amount of tax that is included, but there must be a clear indication of the total price as well. If there are any discounts or amendments to the price, such as when getting a quote, the final price must include all taxes and fees also.
I recently bought a glass pool fence, which on the quote, the vendor discounte
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You left out the "Fi Fo Fum Fee"
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Advertised != actual price (Score:2)
Simple solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Make a rule so that they can only charge for things that they can list. They'll soon figure it out.
Great News!!! (Score:1)
America, land of the backwards bullshit for greed. (Score:3)
Why don't we go a step further and force all businesses everywhere to advertise all prices inclusive of ALL fees and TAXES!
I'd love to go into a grocery store and see a price of $5 and know that i'm paying $5. If i'm on a road trip and I don't know that a local tax of 20% exists of course i'm going to buy more stuff than I would otherwise know. By having taxes baked into all advertised prices, since they are known and mandatory for all purchases at a location, I can then know exactly what i'm spending.
For full transparency, they can list itemized taxes on receipts still. Knowing that the thing I bought for $5 is really only $3 with $1 state tax and $1 town tax is amazing for pushing for reforms and changing unfair legislation - the people should still know why a price is what it is as marked on the shelf.
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Why don't we go a step further and force all businesses everywhere to advertise all prices inclusive of ALL fees and TAXES!
This is how it works in most countries that aren't the USA.
Actual, literal bull shit (Score:2)
I've worked for those fuckers. They choose to be a complete fucking mess internally. If it's too hard it's because they literally just don't want to try to be better. Nobody's bonus will get bigger by trying to comply with these things, but they will get bigger if they protect the company's bottom line by hiding the fees.
I hope ... (Score:2)
poorly trained customer service reps have been known to falsely tell customers that fees created by Comcast are mandated by the government
ah, the dishonesty is dripping here on BOTH sides (Score:2)
I'll leave it to others to go after Comcast - plenty will and I do not know enough specifics on them (not a customer) but allow me to point out the other side (not that I TAKE that side, just that it's being overlooked a bit).
Comcast wants (as do all such companies) to pass on all fees to the consumer and does not want to look like the "bad guy". The FCC however, ALSO does not want to look like the "bad guy". The FCC is mandating certain fees...fees they demand Comcast pay to them, they just do not want Com
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I tried to follow this logic, but it is broken. Comcast can show the fee, label it Fee paid to FCC, and show/have a lower base price: Comcast wins (looks like a good guy).
Making up names (Score:2)
I suppose it's just easier to grab people's money than it is to make up names for the fees, Mschaffer adds.
It's not THAT hard to create a line-item "Because we can" fee.
Ohhh, is it too haaod? (Score:2)
Private ownership creates a perverse incentive. (Score:2)
Why is that so hard to understand?
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im feeling second hand embarrassment for comcast
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im feeling second hand embarrassment for comcast
That made me laugh out loud - thanks! I'll just add that you're probably feeling surrogate embarrassment - I'm pretty sure Comcast feels only greed and derision.
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Re:What a dogshit ISP (Score:5, Insightful)
Corporate sociopaths do not get embarrased...
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Once the reputation is ruined, you have no use for shame.
It rhymes in German, but it's just as true in English.
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Of course not. They probably gave all the higher ups bonuses for increasing revenue without increasing costs.
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I'm just pissed that I don't have another viable choice for internet access at my house. Well, not right now, but I did see trucks traversing the neighborhood putting fiber in the utility vaults, so maybe some day soon I can tell Comcast to pound it, and learn to hate a different telco instead.
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Going to need some further explanation on this one.
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