Microsoft Teams Integration Is Being Removed From Windows 11 60
Microsoft is removing its built-in Microsoft Teams client in Windows 11. "The Chat functionality will be replaced with the more flexible free version of Microsoft Teams that's also available as an app for Windows 10," reports The Verge. The changes were announced in a new Windows 11 test build this week. From the report: The original Teams integration in Windows 11, named Chat, was deeply woven into the operating system. Enabled by default, the Chat app was pinned to the taskbar and you'd have to dig into Settings to remove it. Chat offers consumers a way to use Microsoft Teams to contact friends and family. It was weirdly limited to just consumers though, making it useless for the vast majority of Microsoft Teams users that use the work version of the app. Windows 11 users could also end up with two confusing versions of Teams installed to handle work calls and personal ones.
Up until today, Microsoft had been continually adding new features to Chat inside Windows 11, with improved video calling features in October and Discord-like communities and an AI art tool earlier this month. The built-in Chat functionality in Windows 11 was based on the Microsoft Teams 2.0 client, which served as the foundation for the new Microsoft Teams app that's rolling out to businesses at the moment.
Up until today, Microsoft had been continually adding new features to Chat inside Windows 11, with improved video calling features in October and Discord-like communities and an AI art tool earlier this month. The built-in Chat functionality in Windows 11 was based on the Microsoft Teams 2.0 client, which served as the foundation for the new Microsoft Teams app that's rolling out to businesses at the moment.
The two Teams apps were a mess (Score:4, Informative)
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I'm no fan of the multiple app situation (and it really is par for the course for Microsoft, they've done the same thing at least once before with Skype) but your use case complaint above is a pretty odd one. "Join from web browser in incognito mode" was my immediate thought. "Don't use your work PC for a job interview" was a close second.
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Really? I can't use the fat client (which claims to be be a "better experience") and log in to two things at once, and maybe switch between them as I like - I have to use incongito mode in a browser to hide my intentions from Microsoft?
As for "don't use your work PC for a job interview" - I'm (partly) self employed, so just what computer am I supposed to use? How many computers must I own before Microsoft is happy?
As it is, I have exactly one mac, and I do all my personal and work stuff on it. Works fine.
Re:The two Teams apps were a mess (Score:5, Insightful)
On the first suggestion, that seems perfectly reasonble. Private mode does a nice job of making sure your login is fresh.
"Don't use your work PC for a job interview", well that's challenging, because when you use microsoft tools, there's a tendency for it to turn *any* PC they touch into "your work PC". I installed Outlook and Teams on a personally owned device and logged into my work account and I didn't realize until I had to swap the board that my BitLocker recovery would be done through my *employer's* mechanism, despite only ever trying to log into outlook and teams. I didn't log into the system with a domain account or anything, and my device's bitlocker ends up pulled into the corporate policy.. I just wanted to have a convenient access to chat while using a spare device and suddenly I have handed over my disk encryption for my personal device to my employer. Microsoft ecosystem is heavily geared toward "infecting" any device to be managed by your employer. On Android, it's made more blatant when Outlook will refuse to start unless you explicitly give your employer device administrator privileges, under Windows it just silently makes it happen. Meanwhile the outlook on the web works perfectly fine without the ability to hijack my device.
So in short:
-Microsoft platform is all about giving your employer control of whatever you do, avoid Microsoft where reasonable and *especially* avoid logging into your work account from any PC that you want to be "yours".
-Failing that, the browser remains a viable strategy to isolate their asshattery from your platform, though Microsoft will penalize you. Using Teams from a browser will, for example, not allow you to control someone else's screen, despite there be no good technical reason why that wouldn't be possible. So while participating in Teams meetings as a general Linux user, I'm the guy who can never control a screen when someone says "let me give you remote control".
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When you sign in to a work account in Teams for the first time, it asks if you would like to let "your organization" take control of the entire machine. It was a real shocker to see that weighty of an option when I'm trying to log in to an instant messaging client, instead of like, when I'm installing the OS, or in the system configuration somewhere. I don't think there was even a confirmation dialog.
Even if you don't choose the "Take over my machine" option, after logging in to Teams you'll get your organi
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and I didn't realize until I had to swap the board that my BitLocker recovery would be done through my *employer's* mechanism
You're one of those people who mashes the "next" button without reading what's on the screen. No Microsoft does not enrol your device in your employers mobile device management without not one but TWO warnings. The first one giving you the option of "no just sign in to this app" and the second informing you of what you're agreeing to.
And yes I use all Office365 apps including Outlook and Teams on my personal device logged into work apps. The only issue is that when you do this my office enforces data securi
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If the job is requiring Windows 11 and Teams, then how about no. That is not a good place to work.
Microsoft knows what it needs to do (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft knows what it needs to do (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think Microsoft actually knows that. I think they have been faking it all along and have no real clue what they are doing. After watching their continuous train-wreck for 30 years, I think there is no other explanation left than sheer incompetence. Even if they only care about money but were somewhat competent on the tech side and on what actually works for users, they would have far better products by now than they have.
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I think they have been faking it all along and have no real clue what they are doing.
I couldn't disagree more. That "incompetence" has resulted in an unassailable, air-tight desktop monopoly. Microsoft's leadership has always known exactly what they were doing (with the exception of Steve Ballmer), and have politicians worldwide snugly tucked into their front pockets.
Microsoft does what it does because its leadership knows there are no consequences for doing it. Microsoft's customers will scream, bitch, and moan about how badly they are being treated, but the vast majority of them will do a
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And if you refer back to the discussion at hand, you may realize that my comment is about technology, not shady and illegal business practices. Those MS has down pat.
Microsoft internally is a snake pit (Score:1)
It's mostly what you are referring to above, except their attention is constantly diverted by corporate infighting.
The product groups have their eye on winning internal competitions rather than external competition.
One of the things I learned in recovery was "It's usually not about you". Apply that to Microsoft.
I left in Dec 22.
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Makes sense and nicely explains why so much stuff they make is so bad. I applaud your decision to leave.
Re:Microsoft knows what it needs to do (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a lot of highfalutin BS right there.
I think they have been faking it all along
have no real clue what they are doing.
continuous train-wreck for 30 years
no other explanation left than sheer incompetence
Even if they only care about money but were somewhat competent
Windows, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, XBox, Office 365, Visual Studio, Azure? Ya... all worthless garbage, amirite? Believe me, I have the same RATIONAL gripes as everyone else who understands MS's flaws, but I also know they're none of what was spewed out here. Their problems are:
1. They spent a lot of time and money trying to get a foothold in the mobile market at the expense of desktop and laptop computing segments.
2. They keep screwing up UI because addicted to the ideas of touchscreens when they are horribly inefficient input devices unless the screen is in the palm of your hands. (See point #1)
3. Their attempts at "budget" devices are painfully bad.
4. They try to be everything to everyone all at once (the MS Teams issue).
5. They keep trying to "capture" people like Apple has, but where Apple has an elegance within extreme limitations, MS should simply focus on flexibility.
But despite that, the world runs on Windows, MS Office, and people play on XBox. It might be that they're thorough competent, but simply not perfect. Like everyone else.
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Sorry. I have way higher standards than you it seems. A few days I again did a presentation on LibreOffice, because there was no need to share it and it was mine. The difference to crap like PowerPoint was staggering. It is really like going 10 years into the future, while the MS trash keeps regressing and getting worse, and all LibreOffice did is take the concept and implement it competently. Also runs fine on Linux.
Seriously, the only reason why MS is somewhat tolerable is because in a browser the underly
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A few days I again did a presentation on LibreOffice, because there was no need to share it and it was mine. The difference to crap like PowerPoint was staggering. It is really like going 10 years into the future
Using a computer the way we did 10 years in the past is like going 10 years into the future? Well if you're only doing your own thing and have no need to share then that's fine. LibreOffice is great for that and I use it here at home.
It wouldn't want it for work though. I don't do things for me at work. I do things for my employer, my team, I work in collaboration and yesterday I edited a PowerPoint presentation that someone else was editing in parallel. *THAT* is the future. Not sitting by yourself sulking
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After watching their continuous train-wreck for 30 years, I think there is no other explanation left than sheer incompetence.
I'm not sure train-wreck is the way I'd describe turning their product portfolio into the most used software on the planet while making fuck-you levels of profit.
I appreciate the thought, but what Microsoft needs is simply to stay the course. They exist to make profit not to please the desires of nerds. Now what we *want* them to do, that's a different matter entirely.
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Current versions of Windows are horrible: You pay the license, you're fed publicity in several ways (suggested apps in a clean install, nagging from MS to use Windows built-in apps), lots of metadata is sent to MS, deep integration of MS' apps and services (Edge, Teams, Bing...) a
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Microsoft won't support older hardware because it costs them money in exchange for near zero benefit. People will just upgrade their hardware and continue to use Windows. The numbers who will switch to something else because of this are very small.
E-waste is someone else's problem.
Time for the EU to bring back the browser choice screen.
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Drop the MS account requirements without having to do the workarounds,
Working as designed, MS cares less about you upgrading to Windows 11 and more about getting their hands on your computing experience in an even stronger lockin strategy. Whether you run Windows 7, 8, 10, 11, they have extracted the same money out of you (for 99% of Windows devices, Microsoft got their cut either from the manufacturer when it shipped or from your employer). When they have you renting your backup/data storage month to month, and using their platform to manage your communication with others
I'm suprised they didn't name it... (Score:2)
It wasn't exactly called Chat (Score:5, Informative)
They may have called it Chat but it also showed up as Teams with a slightly different icon. A tiny white T on a tiny purple square ("Work or School") vs a a tiny purple T on tiny white square. And no it is not simple to disable/hide the personal Teams / Chat program.
These are the same folks that brought us Skype and Skype for Business as well as OneNote and OneNote for Windows 10.
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As well as the same folks that are currently bringing us systemd. Do Not Want.
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Systemd has been around for 13 years now. At this point if you want it, you can have it, and those distributions who don't probably won't be switching.
Are you also waiting for Ford to finally best GM because you are afraid GM success will lead to Fords failure.
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My main complaints about Teams are:
-Microsoft continues their baffling "two products, same name" strategy with "Teams (for Work or School)" being totally different than "Teams".
-By bundling with Office365, it means that companies just say "Teams and that's it, no reason to give more money for a better solution, when Microsoft is going to make us pay for Teams no matter what".
If Teams (for Work or School) was the best of breed, then I might not mind it so much. But scrolling is painfully slow, the permissio
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Yeah, they could solve some OneNote problems, perhaps. having a bit of spare time to do so...
Not holding my breath.
Microsoft's "New Features" are Crap (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft's "New Features" are Crap (Score:4, Informative)
Spyware, ads, and monopolistic endeavors are not features.
This. When Windows 10 came out, that was the last straw for me...it appears to have only gotten worse since I left.
Apple, for all their faults, is where I landed. At the very least they aren't trying to monetize my desktop space with @#$!%! ads and notifications I never asked for.
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Stupid (Score:2)
It's extremely poor programming practice to have two (or more!) basically-identical codebases for the exact same purpose, and then have to maintain them all separately because they have different settings and features.
Have recently had to deal with this with OneNote in an educational environment - OneNote, standalone office app? OneNote, Office 365 app? OneNote, Windows Store app?
Poor kids never could get it right and the product offerings are completely different even if somewhat compatible (there are fe
Re: Stupid (Score:2)
They don't enjoy integrating these teams, which seems both inevitable and full of friction. What they've missed is building simple tools that serve both markets and hide the complexity. Even as they hire all kinds of intelligent devs, every tool they make gets huge and hairy before
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They don't enjoy integrating these teams
Pulled out of context, that is a perfect metaphor for the subject of the article.
It is a reflection on Microsoft's own internal troubles.
it's the layoffs! (Score:2)
Default (Score:5, Insightful)
"Microsoft Teams â" Free is pinned by default to the taskbar and can be unpinned like other apps on the taskbar"
How about... no.
The taskbar is for me, not you. I pin the apps I want, not you. Don't ever pin ANYTHING by default, except on a clean fresh user for the most basic of things they need (not your anti-competitive attempt to leverage your OS monopoly into a monopoly in unrelated software areas like office apps, chat apps, browsers etc.).
Don't even get me started on Edge. The more you try to make me use it, the more I just remove it without even trying it anyway - purely because you didn't want to give me the choice, or honour the choice once I'd made it.
Everything that's wrong with messaging today (Score:2)
Even software with a similar name and function developed by the same company running on the same OS which they created doesn't communicate.
Microsoft removing bloat? (Score:2)
Spam (Score:1)
I don't use Windows, and unfortunately COVID-19 communication restrictions required I insatall Team[viewer] at one point.
I reguarly get spam from people who want to share naked pictures of themselves. As these are "invites" they cannot be blocked no matter my settings.
Microsoft has created a spam source that weekly I have to deal with, each time attempting to limit that vector. Amittedly it's not much of an attack vector, while it does waste my time.
Microsoft has also pioneered the joy of "people-free" cu
Beta testing (Score:2)
You were the beta tester for their business offering.
And there was much rejoicing (Score:2)
Seriously... my youngest son is eight, and he uses my old Surface Laptop for games -- and he has absolutely no use whatsoever for Teams. And yet, it insists on popping up on a regular basis... and each time I attempt to remove it, it eventually reinstates itself. What idiot at Microsoft thought that forcing a business focused chat client down the throats of consumers was actually a good idea?
I should have never upgraded that stupid thing to Windows 11.
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Wait until you run a Windows server or Enterprise versions of desktop Windows, and see how much consumer shite ends up there that you have no intention of ever using and actively DO NOT WANT on that machine, ever.
Why on Earth does Microsoft think that everyone is obsessed with having the weather in the taskbar, or trading stock-tickers for instance?
25+ years later and they're still trying to push Active Desktop like it's a thing that anyone actually wants.
The problem with Windows 11 (Score:2)
The problem with Windows 11 is that it should not exist. Microsoft said 10 was going to be the last Windows at one point and they should have stuck to that. Windows is as far as userland goes - feature complete.
There is really nothing left to do . Its all just churn.. Which is not say that hardware isn't changing and the plumbing underneath does not need to be actively maintained to track that. Nor is it to suggest there will never be a need to rebuild explorer.exe - I mean if they added new wizbang feat
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Somewhere around the end of Windows 7, Microsoft started to get serious about using the OS as a full-on data harvester. Every new Windows release since then has gone further in this direction. As such, from their point of view, there will always by a good reason to incorporate more and more data suckers into the core functionality of Windows. Meanwhile, support for earlier versions will be withdrawn, and Microsoft will fight hard against any attempt to interfere with the new OS as it turns your computer
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I'm glad that Windows 11 exists because I can choose not to install it.
Otherwise MS would be spending their energies wrecking Windows 10, and I'm reasonably happy with it as it is now.
So next full screen presentation mode? (Score:2)
We use teams at work, with a hybrid work at home, work from office, also across many locations. The extroverts still like their office meetings where the screen is projected (or displayed with a large TV). Microsoft Teams seemed for some stupid reason doesn't think having a true full screen focus on content without the controls being shown is something that people want. While the Microsoft "help" site is full of complaints on why they can't have it a feature.
Nice to see that $8 Billion in Skype paying off /s (Score:2)
MS is schizophrenia about chat applications:
MS: We need a chat app. Let's buy Skype.
MS: We need a chat app. Let's write Microsoft Classroom.
MS: We need a chat app. Let's write Teams Corporate.
MS: We need a chat app. Let's Write Teams Personal.
Microsoft: If you can't get it right the first time, just keep trying until you don't. /s
Now, just get rid of Windows 11, then Windows! (Score:1, Offtopic)
Let's blanket acknowledge that Windows is a terrible platform, it's unstable, unsecure, lacks performance, lacks usability, lacks customization, lacks proper licensing, and a chore / punishment to use. Windows 11 turns all of those dials to 11, which i
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How about One Drive next. (Score:1)
Chat Apps Show the Value of Gov-Funded Standards (Score:2)
pinned to the taskbar, weirdly limited, (Score:2)