Quality of New Vehicles In US Declining On More Tech Use, Study Shows (reuters.com) 247
Quality of new vehicles sold in the United States is declining as factors such as growing use of technology and lower build quality of certain parts are making the models more "problematic", according to automotive consultant J.D. Power. Reuters reports: Build quality of certain parts such as audio systems and cup-holders have resulted in quality issues, the report said, which collected data from 93,380 purchasers and lessees of 2023 model-year vehicles. Automakers have been leaning on software and technology as they rush to roll out innovative models amid easing supply constraints and labor shortages. Problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) rose 30 PP100 during the past two years, the report said. A lower score reflects higher vehicle quality.
Quality ratings of Tesla, which is not officially ranked among other brands in the study as it did not meet ranking criteria, increased by 31 PP100 year-over-year to 257 PP100 in 2023. Electronic touch-point designed door handles offered on new vehicles have also become an issue, with seven of the 10 most problematic models seen in battery electric vehicles, the report said. Dodge ranked the highest overall in terms of initial quality, while Chrysler and Volvo were jointly ranked lowest, according to J.D. Power. The wide range of quality problems in the automotive industry is "a phenomenon not seen in the 37-year history of the Initial Quality Study," said J.D Power's senior director of auto benchmarking Frank Hanley. "Today's new vehicles are more complex -- offering new and exciting technology -- but not always satisfying owners," Hanley added.
Quality ratings of Tesla, which is not officially ranked among other brands in the study as it did not meet ranking criteria, increased by 31 PP100 year-over-year to 257 PP100 in 2023. Electronic touch-point designed door handles offered on new vehicles have also become an issue, with seven of the 10 most problematic models seen in battery electric vehicles, the report said. Dodge ranked the highest overall in terms of initial quality, while Chrysler and Volvo were jointly ranked lowest, according to J.D. Power. The wide range of quality problems in the automotive industry is "a phenomenon not seen in the 37-year history of the Initial Quality Study," said J.D Power's senior director of auto benchmarking Frank Hanley. "Today's new vehicles are more complex -- offering new and exciting technology -- but not always satisfying owners," Hanley added.
Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:5, Insightful)
Many manufacturers have replaced knobs and buttons with a flat screen control. So: want to change radio station ? You need to take your eyes off the road to navigate a menu system. You might say "it only takes a few seconds" - but 30 at miles per hour you travel 13.4 meters (44 feet) per second - enough to wipe out a pedestrian. Put me into a new or rental car and it will take me longer to work out how to do something.
They might save a few pounds when building the car but are less likely to sell such death traps to me. I should be able to execute common functions by touch - which means buttons that I can feel.
Re:Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:4, Funny)
30 at miles per hour you travel 13.4 meters (44 feet) per second - enough to wipe out a pedestrian
Why do you think cars are equipped with automatic braking now silly?
Re:Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:2)
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Might as well stick to nuts and beef jerky.
No worries. If it's hot outside, the nuts stick to me.
Re: Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:4, Funny)
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The only people I know who had a Tesla S experienced $35K warranty work in the first couple years. They got rid of it before the warranty was up and bought an ICE.
That's the thing, Tesla has (or at least had) pretty serious build quality issues, where they would screw up and not assemble things correctly, but for the most part, once you fix all of those problems, you're done. Things don't break in a Tesla nearly as often after the initial break-in period.
As always, YMMV.
But are there software bugs? Oh, yeah. And that's from a company that does tech relatively well. The legacy automakers are even worse at it.
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Re: Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:2)
What are the odds it will still be running in year 20? Or year 40? Yes, I have cars that old. They still run fine and parts are available for reasonable prices. "More tech" just means manufacturers will be able to orphan older vehicles more rapidly. And no right to repair means no third party support.
Think about an Apple wrecking yard. With thousands of cars that can't be refurbished or even sold for parts. What do you suppose the carbon footprint of such an operation would be?
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Batteries decay even when stored. Ever notice that a phone, even if not used, will have an unusable battery in a few years?
Well, first, in both EVs and phones, there's no such thing as "not used". On a phone, the battery continuously discharges a bit on a phone just from being wired up to the circuit that waits for you to hit the power button. And once it drops below the level at which the battery can be safely charged, the charge controller fails open, and won't ever allow you to charge that battery again, at least without removing it from the device. This is at least in part for safety reasons; if you charge a too-dead cel
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Thank you for defining the genre and it's adherents, oh One True Science Fiction Fan. I'm glad you've established meaningless pedantry as required, as well as strict adherence to your preferences about nomenclature and limitations on attempted humor.
I shall exhume and burn the corpse of Douglas Adams immediately for his transgressions against your self-selected majority. I don't know if he is in your holy grouping of acceptable SF humorists, but if he were alive and he met your standards of perfection, it i
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Holy fuck, you don't even realize what a twat you sound like.
>Most SF fans find attempts at humour offputting.
AND you are completely wrong, which just makes it all so much more cringe-worthy.
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Funny sci fi is great.
Rick and Morty is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
Re: Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:3)
Nearly every rv is pure trash now. Forest River and Thor make the bulk of brands now and they are the worst in the industry. As well Lippert has bought nearly all the parts suppliers and cost reduced all of the parts into the toilet. It's just another case of unpunished antitrust destroying a whole industry.
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While we're offering anecdotes on Tesla reliability... My 8 year old Model S has had all four door handle motors replaced and the main screen computer flash chip replaced, but aside from that, no other warranty work in over 8 years. Clearly, YMMV, but I think after about 2014, the Model S became a lot more reliable than early examples.
I think this is the heart of the issue. It's not about EV vs ICE or Tesla vs other brands. Modern luxury cars just have way more things to go wrong. "Door handle motors?" This would have been a joke not so long ago. Luxury cars, even ICE ones, now have dozens of electric motors for doors, windows, seats, aero and more. But you can go to a junkyard and pull the handle of any old wreck from the 1980s and the door will probably still open. You could also turn the handle of the manual windows and they would pro
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Many manufacturers have replaced knobs and buttons with a flat screen control. So: want to change radio station ? You need to take your eyes off the road to navigate a menu system. You might say "it only takes a few seconds" - but 30 at miles per hour you travel 13.4 meters (44 feet) per second - enough to wipe out a pedestrian. Put me into a new or rental car and it will take me longer to work out how to do something.
They might save a few pounds when building the car but are less likely to sell such death traps to me. I should be able to execute common functions by touch - which means buttons that I can feel.
You are spot on. I used to be able to change the temperature, radio station, etc by feel alone and never take my eyes off the road.
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I'm just glad my car has automatic climate controls and spotify so I don't have to do either of those things.
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Spotify always plays what you want, even if your mood changes?
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The car and Spotify are glad it has you to dictate their preferences to.
For those of us that can feel, we generally have times where we do not agree with the car or Spotify's opinions, making adjustments not only desired but necessary.
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This is likely less about that and more about having to reset supply chains, with a lot more shoddy quality components entering supply chains due to having to get new, untested suppliers for small things because old ones have fallen off.
Once the reset is complete, quality will likely come back.
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complete
likely
Those two words doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
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I don't think it was just that they were the bottom of the list. Some automakers were still using 90nm process chips. Never bothered to redesign. So when they shut down their chip orders, the entire line shut down. Restarting a shut down chip line takes some real work. If they were smart, they would have been designing newer chips that could be built on a newer process while the orders were stopped. The ones that did this, waited until they needed the chips I think.
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I don't think it was just that they were the bottom of the list. Some automakers were still using 90nm process chips. Never bothered to redesign. So when they shut down their chip orders, the entire line shut down. Restarting a shut down chip line takes some real work. If they were smart, they would have been designing newer chips that could be built on a newer process while the orders were stopped. The ones that did this, waited until they needed the chips I think.
Yes lines were shut down and automakers were on older lines but the issue was like all industries, chip makers were dealing with issues like labor and supply chain issue themselves. Their priorities were on other customers that never cancelled their orders. As for a newer process, that would require retesting and recertification which takes time and money. Automakers also could not use a new supplier either as that would require testing and certification. In the long run, they should have used newer chips
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30 at miles per hour you travel 13.4 meters
Also, at first, I thought what is this ungodly blend of imperial and metric, then I saw you are from the UK.
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We're just very adaptable.
Somebody created a flow chart to help newbies to the UK: https://www.reddit.com/r/Casua... [reddit.com]
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Not all manufacturers are that dumb. Honda have big screens now, but also physical controls for important stuff like audio, cruise control, climate etc.
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That's why I love how people complain all the time about Tesla's in particular. Because they have clearly never driven one. All of those things can be done from the steering wheel controls.
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Tesla adopted touch controls on the wheel. And tried to replace the wheel with a yoke.
The current models don't have a gear shift, you have to use the screen.
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To reverse.
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My Chevrolet has a touch screen with all the controls, but I can change the radio station and volume with steering wheel controls and all the climate controls and defrosters have physical buttons very similar to what cars have had for the past thirty years. All the buttons cooperate with the touch-screen system, you can use either without disadvantage.
However, this is beside the point. This vehicle is much more likely to break than cars used to be and likely to be more expensive to fix. I actually had a Maz
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Yup.
Everyone hates it, its an objectively bad design choice, but they just keep doing it.
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> So: want to change radio station ? You need to take your eyes off the road to navigate a menu system
Audio system controls are often integrated into the steering wheel. This has been a standard thing for like a decade now at least...
HVAC controls, however...
=Smidge=
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Since last November I drive a Nissan Ariya that after a first software update in April behaves nicely, before it had various annoying problems.
It is a great ride and several of the most used buttons have been retained but...
Now there is a guy on a UK Nissan forum that sells 3-D printed shims to stick on the otherwise flat centre console where some of the buttons are so you can actually feel which one to press instead of having to look down to find it.
This should have been enforced by the agencies
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Not exactly the same. Most of those don't allow you to type a text, or use an on-screen keyboard at all when not in park.
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Re: Too many new vehicles are dangerous (Score:2)
They can have my dedicated choke knob when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
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Context-adaptive menus make A LOT more sense on a phone, where knobs and sliders aren't practical and you're limited in how many buttons you have.
And you don't have a safety need to be able to operate your phone without looking at it.
But I still want my knobs and buttons anywhere they are still practical. I'm a ham radio operator, and I really don't like the growing trend of going to touch screens and deep menus on newer radios. I'll always prefer wider radio fronts covered in switches and knobs. Sure, th
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But I must say, when I say "Hey Nissan" and "call my mistress" it all works nicely via Android Auto.
Of course providing the mistress is named as contact the phone book
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I blame Apple. They made it chique to make nothing tactile anymore. Style over function.
Not that I agree with the design decision, but to some degree I see why a single design entertainment system would be preferred over physical buttons and knobs as it negates the need to have multiple dashboard designs across models. One head unit with a touch screen can be used in every vehicle design, the look and feel is dictated by software at that point.
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chique
Is that Spanish for "chic"? Or some kind of fashionable chewing gum?
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I blame Apple. They made it chique to make nothing tactile anymore. Style over function.
Yes because Apple made car companies do it. Get real. No one has to follow Apple especially in a completely different industry. In the context of style of function, a larger screen has more function than a smaller screen. While typing on a physical keyboard is better for use cases like writing essays, the vast majority of consumers do not do that on their phones. Lastly, removing the keyboard allowed for more space internally as well as better layouts. Phones got thinner after keyboards were removed.
Even on a phone, I would prefer buttons I can feel through fabric.
Then bu
Who would have thought? (Score:5, Insightful)
Overengineered solutions built with the cheapest parts you could get is a bad, bad combo.
Exciting for whom? (Score:5, Interesting)
Today's new vehicles are more complex -- offering new and exciting technology
New opportunities for driver tracking and surveillance, subscription options to unlock what the owner has already paid for and anti right-to-repair parts and scheme no doubt get the manufacturers excited. For the customers, not so much.
My car is nearing 20 years old. It's simple, has minimal electronics, but it's a diesel. I'd love to buy an electric car, but I can't find one that won't treat me like a cash cow, ravage my privacy and take away my non-negotiable sovereignty over what I own.
So I keep my old diesel. But when it dies, I kind of expect to stop driving altogether and ride the bus, because owning a car today isn't an option I'm willing to make the compromises the manufacturers demand of me now.
Fortunately, I live in a place where public transport is a real, useful and nice-to-use service.
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Today's new vehicles are more complex -- offering new and exciting technology
New opportunities for driver tracking and surveillance, subscription options to unlock what the owner has already paid for and anti right-to-repair parts and scheme no doubt get the manufacturers excited. For the customers, not so much.
My car is nearing 20 years old. It's simple, has minimal electronics, but it's a diesel. I'd love to buy an electric car, but I can't find one that won't treat me like a cash cow, ravage my privacy and take away my non-negotiable sovereignty over what I own.
So I keep my old diesel. But when it dies, I kind of expect to stop driving altogether and ride the bus, because owning a car today isn't an option I'm willing to make the compromises the manufacturers demand of me now.
Fortunately, I live in a place where public transport is a real, useful and nice-to-use service.
Just buy a good used car
Re:Exciting for whom? (Score:4, Informative)
Today's new vehicles are more complex -- offering new and exciting technology
New opportunities for driver tracking and surveillance, subscription options to unlock what the owner has already paid for and anti right-to-repair parts and scheme no doubt get the manufacturers excited. For the customers, not so much.
My car is nearing 20 years old. It's simple, has minimal electronics, but it's a diesel. I'd love to buy an electric car, but I can't find one that won't treat me like a cash cow, ravage my privacy and take away my non-negotiable sovereignty over what I own.
So I keep my old diesel. But when it dies, I kind of expect to stop driving altogether and ride the bus, because owning a car today isn't an option I'm willing to make the compromises the manufacturers demand of me now.
Fortunately, I live in a place where public transport is a real, useful and nice-to-use service.
Just buy a good used car
This, exactly. If he has the money to buy a new mid-range car, then he can afford to buy a 15-year-old car and have it fixed up, including brakes, full suspension, and a nice paint job. And with his willingness to ride the bus, he can save wear and tear on the car, yet have it for longer trips, for transporting stuff that is inconvenient or impossible to move on public transit, and for those days when getting your ass on a bus is just a sucky proposition.
Re:Exciting for whom? (Score:4, Interesting)
This, exactly. If he has the money to buy a new mid-range car, then he can afford to buy a 15-year-old car and have it fixed up, including brakes, full suspension, and a nice paint job.
This is not that simple. I own multiple classic cars and have done full and partial rebuilds multiple times. Getting an old car to as-new state is $100K+, it is by far more expensive to restore than buy a comparable new car. That is why rich guys drive new Huracans but really rich guys drive old Miuras or Countaches. However, the bulk of costs are esthetics, so "a nice paint job" is a Very Expensive proposition. This is because it requires removal of trim parts, panel disassembly, removal of windshields, sandblasting, multi-step painting process ... If you think Maaco paint job will get your car looking as-new or would last as long as factory paint job, you are sadly mistaken. I think full wrap is a more economical way to go.
Say you are willing to live with patina or cheap paint job or wrap and focus on mechanical rebuild on a car from a dry climate (i.e., no rust). Then you can drastically reduce your restoration costs and likely get a reasonable job at around a new car cost. This still leaves a number of questions and pitfalls. First, and most important, what car make and model are you going to pick? Unless you are a car guy, or has inordinate time to research your choices, you can end up with something like old Range Rover or Nissan Pathfinder that are essentially unfixable. Second, who is going to do restoration? Mechanics in 2023 are crazy busy (people are not buying new cars due to dealer markups) and not going to take on such big job. Shops that focus on classic cars would not be interested in taking on low-key restoration; simply having your beater seen in the shop would likely cost them prospective clients.
Last but not least, repairs and full rebuild are different things. Restoring to as-new condition requires replacing parts that are not yet broken (e.g., old strut that is not yet leaking but is past MTTF). This could be massively expensive, as you would be buying OEM parts at markup compared to what it cost factory or rolling a dice on aftermarket parts. For example, you mention "full suspension", however it is almost never done completely due to costs - typically it is just new bushings, boots, links. This still leaves you with a possibility of CV joint failure, wheel bearing failure, steering box/rack issues, strut leaks, strut caps cracking, sub frame bushing failing, etc. To give you an idea - when I put complete suspension on my track car, it was more than $25K in parts.
Unless you are a capable DIY mechanic, driving an old or classic car is an expensive fashion statement. Don’t get into this unless regularly dropping $2-3K on the car is not a big deal (and you have something else to drive while the car is in the shop) or you are at least comfortable with DIY where replacing a wheel bearing yourself is not a big deal, you have space to work on the car, and already have all the tools to take on most jobs. Don't forget how much tools costs - over years I easily put $5K into 'modest' set that allows me to do some work myself.
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This, exactly. If he has the money to buy a new mid-range car, then he can afford to buy a 15-year-old car and have it fixed up, including brakes, full suspension, and a nice paint job.
This is not that simple. I own multiple classic cars and have done full and partial rebuilds multiple times.
I'm not talking "classic", just "used", maybe no older than 2012 or 2013. Agree it makes a big difference if you can fix yourself. Just checking my local craigslist I see plenty of nice vehicles newer than 2012 for $7k-$8k with ~120k miles. I can easily drive one of those for 10 years and another 100k. My oldest car now is a 1999 RX300 with 349k miles. Lexus made them really well. I can easily get another one with half that mileage for ~$3k
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Just buy a good used car
While this is exactly what I do, what about in 10 or 15 years? There is HUGE difference in reliability between 2-8 year old car and 10-16 year old car. What are you going to replace your current used car when it is too old?
Unless you do your own work, costs of maintaining a very old car in fully working condition approaches lease payments on a comparable car. That is, if you can find a mechanic you can trust. So you start making compromises - is fixing loose steering worth $1-2K or do I just live with it?
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You're lucky to live somewhere where there are lots of used vehicles available. Where I live, not so much. Seems like arbitrage pressure (well greed mainly) has meant that 90% of all cars traded in here get sent down south. Buyers from the US have come up here and give the dealer more than they'd get selling locally. It's hard for them to pass that up. And it helps new car sales because there's little else available. Dealers are making money hand over fist despite record high new-car prices. For a sig
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Good old diesels tend to run forever as long as you keep them maintained. The main problem is more in the realm of car frame rusting and such.
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Get a Nissan Leaf. They are cheap now, the top spec models have decent range, and they don't spy on you if you decline the option to send telematics. You can also simply disconnect the cellular antenna, or buy an older one that has a now defunct 2G/3G modem.
They are fairly simple vehicles too, easy to maintain yourself, not that they need a lot of maintenance. They are reliable, the most common issue being the struts rusting which can be averted by installing cheap plastic covers. The newer ones have the co
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Disconnect the LTE antenna.
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Wow you really drank the kool-aid didn't you?
You even seem to have internalized this shit, accepted it and you're evem advocating for it, I'm not surprised companies are able to get away with their nickel-and-diming subscription schemes today. If you can't see how dystopian what all this is, you're beyond hope and so are we. People like you are genuinely terrifying.
Had any car manufacturer tried to pull this shit off only 20 years ago would have been laughted at and would never have made a sale. Fast forwar
Re:Exciting for whom? (Score:5, Informative)
Owners aren't missing anything they already paid for. You pay for what is advertised to you and you get what you have. Your seat containing a heater which you can't turn on doesn't mean you're not getting exactly what you paid for.
Tell me you work for Oracle without telling me.
Corporate greed learned well (Score:2)
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BMW is working on making the entire engine from plastic. They already have plastic oil pans, plastic valve covers, and plastic intake manifolds. What else can they change to plastic?
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Bro, corporations were already doing that before the Chinese even had incorporation
Dodge best, Chrysler worst, cupholders matter? (Score:2)
Chasing marginal utility at the cost of QC. (Score:2)
Re: Chasing marginal utility at the cost of QC. (Score:2)
Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about it
Yes there is. Put all the current politicians and federal regulators against the wall and have them shot. Delete all US specific design standards and regulations (intended to segment our market for the purpose of higher profits). Let me buy products on the world market. If I want another Landcruiser, I should be able to purchase a Series 70 model. If I need insulin, I should be able to buy it from a Canadian pharmacy.
For profit (Score:2)
Cars are made by for-profit organizations. Their number one objective is to maximize profit for their shareholders, particularly for the next quarter. Making the best cars may be one way to achieve that goal - and I say "may be" because in order to make the best cars you have to spend extra money: for example, on better quality. The thing is, there are other ways to meet that goal, within or without the law, if one can get away with it. It would seem that carmakers are converging toward an equilibrium poin
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But, now everybody gets to fly. It is taken for granted now. It didn't used to be this way.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/... [wikimedia.org]
Re: For profit (Score:2)
But, now everybody gets to fly.
You say that like it's a good thing.
More problems but not necessarily worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
So my 2015 car had a warranty problem that my 2005 did not. It's back up camera wiring was faulty. Which made the car sometimes be a car without a backup camera, like my 2005. Someone busted my side mirror in a way that it could be physically put back together, but it had a fault. So that car's mirror showed a "problem" my 2005 did not have. The cross-traffic alert stopped working, which my 2005 did not have. I've heard of folks having a broken distance sensor somehow and their adaptive cruise or park distance warning not working. Again, the result is a car that is about the same as my 2005. My wife's car tire pressure monitoring rose a fault because of dead batteries, and thus again it "failed" down to the level of being the same as my 2005, no tire pressure monitoring.
From the perspective of the fundamental "be a car", I've been very pleased. By this point my 2005 had a power steering issue owing to the hydraulic design while my newer car with electric power steering has been flawless. Technically my 1990 car was even more "reliable" by virtue of not having power steering, power brakes, airbags, or ABS brakes. Just a boring, low power engine coupled to a manual transmission with some wheels, seems there's not much to go wrong, but it sucked and was far less safe.
I know, this is anecdote rather than data, but I'd love to see the metrics broken out more to delve more into whether the base level of functionality from years gone by is actually getting worse, or just more problems with the newer features that do not interfere. Currently it feeds into the hollow "they just don't make them like they used to" when my experience has been quite the opposite, with the risk of occasionally downgrading in some specific respect back to the "good old days" when such features didn't even exist.
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The thing about manual transmission, though, is that it's not just relatively simple, and therefore cheaper to repair. It also lets you get more out of your engine than a lot of automatics. I imagine that difference will fade away as the cost of flappy paddle shifting keeps dropping and it becomes available in more and more cars. There's one huge advantage to old-fashioned manual, though...it makes your car a whole lot less interesting to car thieves.
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My 2015 still has a manual transmission, I like it.
But some modern automatics leave no room to be considered worse on performance or efficiency anymore. An automatic transmission with electronically operated clutches provide all the abilities that the manual shifter does, much faster than a human can and in a way that makes, say, 10 gears bearable/used. Still cheaper to repair... for the select scenarios where you can still actually find it....
Or go EV where single speed makes sense for the simplest scenar
Chrysler == Dodge (Score:2)
Which is why these "surveys" are useless.
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Aren’t both already owned by Stellantis including Alfa Romeo?
Dodge #1 again (Score:5, Insightful)
This JD Power survey very consistently ranks Dodge or Chrysler as #1. It's not just this year, it's the same most years.
Any survey that ranks Dodge or Chrysler #1 in quality is either flawed or corrupt or both.
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If you pay JD Power enough money, they will find some aspect where you are number 1 and then you can market that. Its just expensive marketing.
not built (Score:2)
I think the issue is the complexity. Cars are not 'built' anymore, making a car is a process of integrating a ton of off-the-shelf tech from companies like Bosch.
A fundamentally Flawed Criteria (Score:5, Interesting)
The more features a vehicle has the more potential and real faults. Conversely a lack of features results in a high score.
No cruise control - No Faults
No air conditioning - No Faults
No sound system - No Faults
No car - ZERO Faults - absolutely perfect by their criteria
Simple (Score:2)
The DVD drive is NOT a cup holder! (Score:2)
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Yes, Tesla is mentioned at 257 problems per 100 cars. It's just not officially ranked is all.
Funnily, none of the others' problems values are listed. Just that they average a rise of 30 for last two years generally.
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Yes, Tesla is mentioned at 257 problems per 100 cars. It's just not officially ranked is all. Funnily, none of the others' problems values are listed. Just that they average a rise of 30 for last two years generally.
The industry average is just 186 problems per 100 [jdpower.com]. So 257 is way, way worse than the overall average, and is also way worse than even the average for premium brands (205).
The two cars that tied for most dependable (Toyota C-HR and Lexus RX) had just 110 problems per 100.
On the flip side, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, because cars with more capabilities will almost inherently have more problems if all else is equal. Other cars can't have FSD-related repairs and upgrades, for example, because t
Re:No Tesla? (Score:4, Interesting)
I can only speak for myself. I am on my second Tesla and I have had some uncomplicated failures. 2 cameras have failed, a washer fluid hose disconnected.
Like most hardware it was within the first year, it haven't bothered me because of their roaming service so all of it was fixed in my carport at home or while I was working at the office. The washer fluid I could have fixed myself if it wasn't because everything under the hood these days in cars is covered in plastic.
So it haven't been a bother at all and it is a joy not having to spend time visiting a gas station every week.
They pre-emptively changed something or added something to the electric trunk lift. I can't remember what it was, it was something that might fail later on.
Re:No Tesla? (Score:4, Informative)
My post though was more about the survey than the car quality. It seems odd to have a survey that has criteria excluding the most popular car worldwide - those criteria need looking at to make sure they include it.
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My post though was more about the survey than the car quality. It seems odd to have a survey that has criteria excluding the most popular car worldwide - those criteria need looking at to make sure they include it.
My first google hit was this - https://insideevs.com/news/673... [insideevs.com] "The data analytics company says that, unlike other car manufacturers, Tesla, Rivian, Polestar, and Lucid do not grant it permission to survey its owners in states where authorization is required." I wonder if the criteria was just whether they were allowed to gather high quality data?
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I know, but it is hard to get that far away here. I live in Denmark, a small country with a population of 5.8 mil.
We have 7 Tesla service centres. In the beginning of 2022, 19500 Tesla were registered with plats. this year so far 8000(most sold brand) sold can't find numbers for 2022.
But I guess the best metric should be registered cars as some are sold, crashed and a significant amount are imported from Germany(germans making money by buying them using German incentives and selling them half a year later)
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They have a criteria of people caring about faults, because they're not rich enough to afford not to care. There's a small cadre of wealthy people who sell their cars off before warranty is up, and who live in nations with very good warranty service from Tesla. These people are plentiful enough to ensure that in a world where cars vary nation to nation for most brands, a single Tesla will be "world's best selling car". Because unlike everyone else, Tesla does as little as possible to adapt its vehicles to e
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There's a small cadre of wealthy people who sell their cars off before warranty is up, and who live in nations with very good warranty service from Tesla. These people are plentiful enough to ensure that in a world where cars vary nation to nation for most brands, a single Tesla will be "world's best selling car".
To hit the #1 slot, Tesla had to sell 267,200 Model Y cars in a single quarter, which is 1.07 million per year or 3.2 *million* over the three-year replacement interval. There are only 66.7 million cars sold worldwide each year. That means one out of every 66 car buyers bought a Tesla Model Y. Worldwide. That's not just the ultra-wealthy at that level.
Even though Tesla consumes far more CO2 to produce than comparable ICE vehicle. But buyers who get a Tesla typically sell off their Teslas long before they get into the break even point on CO2 emissions vs ICE cars ...
That's not really true. The break-even point is only 15k to 20k miles, assuming an average energy mix. Most people drive that far within the three-year
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"Tesla officially included for the first time: Tesla is included in the industry VDS calculation this year for the first time, with a score of 242 PP100. However, because Tesla does not allow J.D. Power access to owner information in the states where that permission is required by law, Tesla vehicles remain ineligible for awards."
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The Model Y was likely excluded due to low numbers in the field and it not having been out very long. It started delivering in small numbers in 2020, but to have comparable results it needs to have been on the market for a few years and delivered in quantity for each of those years.
They take reports from owners and from dealers selling them second hand. The latter takes time to ramp up when cars are newly introduced. The former can be under reported with Tesla because of the Musk reality distortion field, a
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No it's not. It's excluded because Tesla isn't sharing vehicle ownership data.
The underlying data is still there and considered. Tesla is part of the study, just has a big asterisk associated with it.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2... [jdpower.com]
Re:No Tesla? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the best selling **electric** car, not the best selling car.
But Tesla's interface sucks. I'm 6'3", so if I sit in a car other than my own, I almost always have to adjust the seat and wheel.We were at the mall, and they had a Tesla store, so out of curiosity my wife and I went in to look. I sat in one of them, and tried for a minute or so to adjust the seat and wheel. Finally someone came over to help us, and showed us how to navigate the menu system to get to the seat and wheel adjustment screen. That's a hard pass from me. Even if I wanted to support Musk, that alone would have turned me off the car.
Best selling Car! (Score:3)
Not electric, CAR.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/... [theverge.com]
https://www.motor1.com/news/66... [motor1.com]
The Model "Y" beat out the Corrolla for the #1 spot.
Re:This is why trolls devour humans! (Score:4, Insightful)
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The original article give the answer:
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/s... [jdpower.com]
Keep in mind "faults per 100 vehicles" is perhaps an indicator of the same car models YoY, but not a great way to compare. My first car was a tiny Toyota Aygo with basically zero features and thus very little that can go wrong. While my Toyota Land cruiser had more issues, it was still a much higher quality car overall. Just as an example.
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Stop buying American.
I have an F150 too, and I regret buying it. It's a nightmare to work on, and literally as difficult to maintain as an Audi. Special tools are cheaper (for the most part) but parts cost just as much...
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Lol, so someone needs to explain the difference between "service" and "maintenance"?