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Reddit Gives Final Warning to Subreddits Using NSFW Protest Tactic (pcmag.com) 99

Posted by EditorDavid from the breaking-nudes dept.
2096 subreddits were still dark on Friday, as PC Magazine shared this update about ongoing protests at Reddit: To stamp out any remaining protests, Reddit is sending "final warnings" to subreddits that decided to permit NSFW content as a way to derail the company's advertising business.

Reddit sent warnings to subreddits including r/PICs, r/Military, r/dndmemes, and r/JustNoMil, which was first noticed by The Verge. The message states: "This is a final warning for inaccurately labeling your community NSFW, which is a violation of the Mod Code of Conduct rule 2. Your subreddit has not historically been considered NSFW nor would they under our current policies."

The warning threatens to punish volunteer moderators of the affected subreddits. "Please immediately correct the NSFW labeling on your subreddit. Failure to do so will result in action being taken on your moderator team by the end of this week," Reddit told the moderators of r/PICs. "This means moderators involved in this activity will be removed from this mod team..."

However, the r/PICs subreddit wants to remain a NSFW destination, citing the adult and profane content that users often post. "We are not in violation of the cited rule as it is written. Moreover, according to Reddit's listed policies, our subreddit is considered NSFW," the moderators for r/PICs told Reddit.
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Reddit Gives Final Warning to Subreddits Using NSFW Protest Tactic More

Reddit Gives Final Warning to Subreddits Using NSFW Protest Tactic

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  • Really missing that at the moment.

  • ...What happens in cases where subreddits went full-on pr0nz? Does this apply to them? Also, shoutout to r/TIGHTPUSSY for staying up (SFW, actually, it's cats).

  • stop paying reddit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zeiche ( 81782 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @10:50AM (#63668173)

    i’ve been on reddit for a number of years and on my 2nd annual subscription. the folks that run reddit are upsetting me more than the mods. seems like it is getting time to turn off auto renewal for the reddit subscription?

    • The question is, who pays for Reddit?

      I felt like they should pay me to provide content for them.

      • Re:stop paying reddit (Score:4, Insightful)

        by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @12:49PM (#63668403)

        Yes, you are the product. They sell your attention and data to advertisers.

        Why pay someone to produce content when you can just trick people into producing it for free?

        • Well, you might get better quality... but then again, what for, if the audience is happy with the quality provided, why pay for better quality?

          • No, youâ(TM)d likely get worse. By paying people for content youâ(TM)ll get the lowest quality content they can trick you into accepting. By tricking people into having a vested interest in providing you with content they will compete to provide the best content they can.

        • Which amazes me they are trying their damndest to piss off every user and mod on the site. I know they’re chasing $$$ but at what cost? They are totally dependent on the free labor of the people who are leaving. Who’s going to post, comment, or mod?
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Why are you paying for reddit in the first place? What does that gain you?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Well, sometimes I pay for things just because I want to support them. Perhaps he wants/wanted to support reddit.

    • automatic renewal is good for things that your life depends upon, like insulin refills, or possibly power (or internet).

      Anything else, IMO, if you don't care enough to renew it manually, you shouldn't renew it automatically.

      • Every time I renew prime I always shut off the auto renewal. Fortunately I've never actually had to pay full price for it. For the past two years I didn't even pay anything at all. Every now and then I might go a month or two without ordering anything off amazon at all, which often happens around renewal time. They do some shady shit where the word it like in order to shut off auto renewal you "cancel" your prime subscription, and it's only after you "cancel" it that they tell you that your current subscrip

      • Maybe you like manually resubscribing to stuff every month. Maybe you have enough time on your hands to spend it doing the same thing all over again each month.
        Others have better things to do with their life.

    • You actually bought a subscription?

      • I've been on Reddit for 7 years and I didn't even know there *was* a subscription to buy. The mods' foot-stamping flounces are obnoxious but they're right about one thing- the people running reddit seem to be clowns that are bad at both business and tech.
    • RES and adblocker if you're still going to use the site as it turns to shit.

    • The ads are really bad too. Like really badly targeted, i live in thailand and get mostly ads for american restaurants and hotels and shit like that.

    • the answer is to leave the 'for profit' shit for good. nostr protocol just released the 'communities' NIP-172 and its basically reddit without the company profit bullshit. check out satellite, zappdit, or nostr.kiwi

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by tbords ( 9006337 )

        the answer is to leave the 'for profit' shit for good. nostr protocol just released the 'communities' NIP-172 and its basically reddit without the company profit bullshit. check out satellite, zappdit, or nostr.kiwi

        Why not check out Lemmy? Federated and growing. Just sign up for your account on one of the instances (lemmy.world is one of the larger ones).

  • Not a violation (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mrbester ( 200927 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @10:52AM (#63668175) Homepage

    Rule 2 states that a sub must be marked NSFW if it is, not that it shouldn't be marked NSFW if it isn't. Plus, as the response claims, there are sufficient NSFW posts to consider the whole sub be marked NSFW to be on the safe side and remain within the rules.

    • Re:Not a violation (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:25AM (#63668225)

      Secret rule 0 says Reddit can do whatever it wants and offer an obviously bullshit excuse if it feels like it.

      All the visible rules are just PR performance pieces that ultimately don't matter at all.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Wait, secret?

        This is a site that had CEO just invisibly edit posts of users who bitched about him so that those people would be against the rules of the subreddit they were posting in, and get banned.

        This rule was completely open for several years now. Reddit admins do whatever they want to do, and if you don't like it, you can leave.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cfalcon ( 779563 )

          Yup, and when caught he offered the weakest of apologies. In 2014 you could make a case that reddit was a free speech platform and that the admins tried their best to be fair to everyone. That opinion was an absolute joke of a take long before this latest crap began- the site has been "reddit does whatever" for at LEAST five years.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

            If anything, reddit is a great example of why "they came for x, and I didn't speak out because y, then they came for me and there wasn't anyone speaking for me so I got screwed too" is a slippery slope, but not a fallacy.

      • Reddit can reword your post to say what they want it to say, or justify banning you. They can ban/alter things any way they care to, then if they offer any explanation at all just say 'policy violation'. The only reason to participate is if you trust the company.

        If you trust Reddit management at this point... you're either uninformed or have a vested interest of some sort.
      • Same as the old talk radio rule - don't expect to win an argument against the guy who owns the only microphone.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sprins ( 717461 )

      I wonder what will happen if (when?) this is taken to court.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Rule 2 states that a sub must be marked NSFW if it is, not that it shouldn't be marked NSFW if it isn't. Plus, as the response claims, there are sufficient NSFW posts to consider the whole sub be marked NSFW to be on the safe side and remain within the rules.

      This is Reddit. This is the internet. Mind telling me when we're going to start questioning the entire fucking point of an NSFW label?

      Yeah, in fact that is a hardcore porn surfing device you handed to your 13-year old for their birthday. You just call it a "smartphone" and you did it for "safety".

      (Not like society really gives a shit about filters anymore, as my example highlights rather easily.)

    • Right - Reddit declared that r/pics should not be marked nsfw because it isnâ(TM)t, but the mods are the ones who decide what the sub is. If they want the sun to be nsfw, then it is nsfw, and should be marked as such.

    • Rule 2 states that a sub must be marked NSFW if it is, not that it shouldn't be marked NSFW if it isn't. Plus, as the response claims, there are sufficient NSFW posts to consider the whole sub be marked NSFW to be on the safe side and remain within the rules.

      If you look at the top posts of all time there's not a single NSFW item in sight, so it seems to me that the mods are BSing in an attempt to continue their protest and the admins are actually correct that it shouldn't be marked as NSFW.

      • Because the top posts aren't likely to be NSFW in the first place. They are the ones most upvoted like the cutest kitten you ever did see, the most amazing sunset, the Pillars of Creation, etc.. Stuff you'd want an A2 print of to hang on your wall.

        You're unlikely to find enough that want an image of, say, Piper Perry getting drilled by BBCs that they'd upvote it to such a degree. Plus they'd go to other more dedicated subs for that content anyway.

  • this isn't about legality (Score:5, Insightful)

    by v1 ( 525388 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @10:58AM (#63668185) Homepage Journal

    it's about doing what they tell you to do.

    However, the r/PICs subreddit wants to remain a NSFW destination, citing the adult and profane content that users often post. "We are not in violation of the cited rule as it is written. Moreover, according to Reddit's listed policies, our subreddit is considered NSFW," the moderators for r/PICs told Reddit.

    It's not about it being legal. reddit isn't upset that you're not following the listed policies, they're upset you're refusing to play by their unwritten rules. But THEY are in full control of what the "listed policies" are, and if they WANT to win the "you're not following policies" game, all they have to do is change their policies to MAKE what you're doing "illegal."

    All this is going to do is lead to reddit adding or modifying policies to FORCE you into non-compliance.

    Reminds me of a flip of an old movie... "But my lord, is that ILLEGAL?" "I will MAKE it illegal!"

  • Fire the volunteers (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheNameOfNick ( 7286618 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#63668191)

    That'll work.

  • code of conduct (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hjf ( 703092 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#63668195) Homepage

    "code of conduct", "terms and conditions", "rules".... all vague and open to interpretation AND subject to application ("we reserve the right"). But, of course, as private platforms the last word is their word. And not only their word, ALSO: they can change the rules at any time without warning, effectively making retroactive changes. And they don't owe anyone any justification to do so.

    The rule they cited is "Users who enter your community should know exactly what they’re getting into, and should not be surprised by what they encounter. ". well, it's very simple. If the sub is marked NSFW, then the users should expect to find NSFW content. What's the discussion here?

    Now they're also trying to make it retroactive "Your subreddit has not historically been considered NSFW". What does that matter? Code of conduct doesn't say anything about history.

    But that doesn't really matter. There is nothing preventing them from doing whatever they want.

    Anyone using any essential service (such as electricity or water) gets warnings first AND gets to challenge their decisions. The water company can't simply cut you off because "we have new terms and conditions and we won't be serving houses with pools anymore", and send a crew to cut your service now. And of course, they can't just ignore your emails and calls if they ever do this. AND, of course, they have a real physical address where you can show up and talk to someone.

    Every day you see online platforms doing whatever the fuck they want and decide to deplatform you for any reason, at any time, without any explanation provided. I think sooner or later online services will need to be regulated like, well, any other service in the world.

    Now, remember one important thing: They have Section 230 protection. So they're basically not liable for anything, and reserve to do anything. That's a very unfair deal that needs to be addressed soon.

    • Now, remember one important thing: They have Section 230 protection. So they're basically not liable for anything, and reserve to do anything. That's a very unfair deal that needs to be addressed soon.

      This has nothing to do with Section 230 protection, and not only that 230 protection is no different than protection you get in the physical world. If you own a billboard and someone goes up to it and slaps a picture of a dick on it, the person who slapped the picture of a dick on it is the one liable, not the owner of the billboard.

      Also, if you don't like what the private company is doing with the service they are offering up to the public to use, well, simply don't use that service or build your own. Red

      • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

        by hjf ( 703092 )

        Lol imagine being TRIGGERED by the mention of section 230.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          *makes a claim that is factually wrong and draws the entirely wrong conclusions from misunderstanding what the law is*

          *gets corrected*

          "why is everybody so triggered?!?"

          just click off your brain and go to sleep, you obviously have reached your processing limit for the day

    • Now they're also trying to make it retroactive "Your subreddit has not historically been considered NSFW". What does that matter? Code of conduct doesn't say anything about history.

      I guess you could see that as a protection against "bait-and-switch".

      A sufficiently big subreddit should maybe not be allowed to change it's "purpose/goal", because all it's members subscribed with different expectations of what it is about.

  • When I found out what they were doing to users and devs with their recent pricing changes, I deleted their app and haven't visited the site since. Kind of extreme, but heavy-handed mods there ensured I was never able to enjoy contributing there, so my visits were infrequent to begin with.

    • The thing is, even back when I spent a few weeks on Reddit and wrote stuff there, I never really thought about actually paying for anything there.

      I also wouldn't have had to, for some weird reason people actually gave me free "prime" access (or whatever that was called on there).

  • It's obvious that volunteer human mods aren't sufficiently compliant for Reddit's needs, so automated moderation will have to take a heavier role. It's trivial to autoban posts containing forbidden words and forbidden sentiment is close to being autobannable. But Reddit admins are too far past their own assholes to see the line between the kind of thing they should allow because it keeps the normal people on the site and the kind of thing they can safely ban.So the first working, context-sensitive AI auto-m

    • I'd guess what we'll then see is that people start to talk in code, much like they did back in the days of the East Bloc. People knew that what they wanted to say was verboten, so they found euphemisms for the banned words, phrases and ideas.

      I guess you'll have to learn to speak "Redditish" to stay away from the banhammer. People will learn how to do that after two or three accounts.

      • That's already very much a thing on YouTube, both in videos and comments.

      • I'd guess what we'll then see is that people start to talk in code, much like they did back in the days of the East Bloc. People knew that what they wanted to say was verboten, so they found euphemisms for the banned words, phrases and ideas.

        I guess you'll have to learn to speak "Redditish" to stay away from the banhammer. People will learn how to do that after two or three accounts.

        And then it will all be for nought, as LLM's will start to learn the euphemisms, and even to anticipate them. Not to mention their ability to detect duplicate accounts by analyzing people's writing patterns...

        I see the likes of ChatGPT as being a key component in the possible rise of a 1984-like world, if climate change doesn't knock us back to the stone age or kill us altogether. Reddit could well become one of the 'laboratories' in which that kind of social engineering research will either inadvertently o

    • ... The result will be large communities of the compliant: people who are provably cooperative in the face of propaganda and obedient in the face of strict demands on what they're allowed to express. It will be brought down to a science. This hard will the boot press.

      In other words, Reddit is destined to become a microcosm of the kind of broader society which corporations and some governments would like to see? Gee, maybe it will even serve as a template and proving ground!

  • Never went there on purpose. And every time I click on anything and end up seeing reddit I just move on. From the outside the operators just look like they are all about monetization, who cares about users. Which is cool, but they may find they are getting an ever increasing cut of a declining revenue stream.
    • There were a lot of useful instructions, recommendations and general know-how that accumulated there over the years. You could get pretty decent answers to a lot of questions by adding "reddit" to the end of a search query. That's all been ruined by greed & incompetence.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sfcat ( 872532 )

        You could get pretty decent answers to a lot of questions by adding "reddit" to the end of a search query.

        Only if you don't care about the answer being accurate or based on reality. Reddit is why SO is tolerable these days as it sucked out the most prolific and wrong answers. The only reason I want Reddit to survive is to keep that going.

  • ahem.. (Score:1, Troll)

    by mgbastard ( 612419 )

    Fuck you Steve.

    You have no magic but the mods and the users. Better is on the way and the great migration will begin. You rose from the ashes of Digg. This will be no different.

    Y'all probably should know better than to double down with devs. Lame.

    • Yes, I'm old. Old enough to remember Reddit when it was a small program that was populated by its makers with fake accounts to make it look like it had users.

      It started small, and it'll end small.

  • Tell them we'll close our accounts. Maybe a few hundred thousand people threatening to leave will wake them up. I'm actually seriously considering it. I love(d?) reddit, but.. not gonna be worth it if it's their way or the highway. Time for some more... decentralized options.

  • There's a big elephant nobody's talking about (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @12:44PM (#63668387)
    the big automatic mod tool used to remove spam shut down. It was a free community project and they're not going to argue with Reddit over fees. It's used on around 3500 forums there.

    Reddit is about to become a cesspool of penis pills and pro-Russian trolls. Reddit can write their own tools, but those cost money. And you don't spend money in the lead up to an IPO.

    I'm not entirely sure how they let that slip, except that their CEO is, no joke, the former mod of their jailbait forum. It's how he got his start in the company.

    • Re:There's a big elephant nobody's talking about (Score:4, Informative)

      by sfcat ( 872532 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @03:51PM (#63668839)

      I'm not entirely sure how they let that slip

      This is the exact thing the mods are protesting over. This issue isn't that complex yet somehow 90% of the posts here misunderstand it somehow. Reddit is trying to eliminate 3rd party apps by charging an intentionally high price for API access. The devs said fine, we are gone. The mod's don't want to try to moderate without those tools. Hence the protest. It isn't a bug, its a feature.

  • Why hasn't one of these communities simply made their own reddit already?

    Host it yourself, make your own rules. Have we forgotten what it means to have an internet?

  • The news coming from Reddit management sounds like some tinpot dictatorship lately. Authoritarian much? Make sure none of these suits go into politics.

    I hope this runs them into the ground, but they probably won't learn their lesson and escape with golden parachutes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sfcat ( 872532 )

      I hope this runs them into the ground, but they probably won't learn their lesson and escape with golden parachutes.

      They had planned an IPO later this year...guess how that is going?

  • My boss ... (Score:3)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Saturday July 08, 2023 @05:40PM (#63669179)

    ... hates Reddit. So the whole damned thing is NSFW as far as I am concerned.

  • Make sure to turn off the lights

  • "They're a private company, they can do what they want..." It kind of rang out by individuals when social media sites decided to ban individuals for exercising their constitutional rights on platforms that didn't and still don't adhere to constitutional values.

    I realize people buy subscriptions to Reddit and all but there is a ToS [redditinc.com] and these are pertinent and always groomed by lawyers.

    8. Moderators
    Moderating a subreddit is an unofficial, voluntary position that may be available to users of the Services. We are not responsible for actions taken by the moderators. We reserve the right to revoke or limit a user’s ability to moderate at any time and for any reason or no reason, including for a breach of these Terms.

    and...

    15. Changes to these Terms
    We may make changes to these Terms from time to time. If we make changes, we will post the revised Terms and update the Effective Date above. If the changes, in our sole discretion, are material, we may also notify you by sending an email to the address associated with your Account (if you have chosen to provide an email address) or by otherwise providing you with notice through our Services. By continuing to access or use the Services on or after the Effective Date of the revised Terms, you agree to be bound by the revised Terms. If you do not agree to the revised Terms, you must stop accessing and using our Services before the changes become effective.

    Net, Net you can protest all you want on their platform, but they'll still tell you what to do and your using the servi

  • Just like many others, I've deleted my premium Reddit account, and have started to report reddit links as malicious, and also block listing them at the DNS level in all organizations and users I can.

    Corporate Bullies like Steve Huffman and his Reddit's mafia, has absolutely no place in our country, and neither in our democracy, and even if they continue to attack and oppress us, we need to hold our ground and tell them to f... off.

    Create a P2P/BlockChain clone to replace em, can't be that hard to make a web

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