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Communications The Internet

Arrival of eSIM is Altering How Consumers Interact With Operators (opensignal.com) 106

OpenSignal blog: While eSIM adoption in the mobile market has been arriving for some time, Apple's move to make eSIM the only option for iPhone 14 range in the U.S. is propelling the worldwide shift towards eSIM technology. Opensignal's latest analysis reveals a significant surge in the proportion of users switching their operator among those who use an eSIM across seven examined markets -- Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, the U.K. and the U.S.

The switch from physical to embedded SIM cards threatens to alter how consumers switch operators and encourages operators to adopt new tactics to retain and acquire users, for example operators can offer network trials from within an app that provisions an eSIM immediately. eSIM also means the risks to operators of dual SIM devices that have long been common in many international markets are arriving in operator-controlled markets too, such as the U.S. and South Korea. Even on smartphones sold by operators, eSIM support is usually present in addition to a physical SIM, making them dual-SIM devices.

Google added eSIM-support to the Pixel range in 2017, Samsung added eSIM support to 2019's Galaxy S20 flagship. While Apple first added eSIM to their phones in 2018 with the iPhone Xs, it switched to selling exclusively eSIM models in the U.S. with the iPhone 14 range in late 2022. South Korea is also a special case -- eSIM support for domestic customers only began in mid-2022, before this point it was only available to international travelers. Notably, Samsung responded by introducing eSIM to a selection of its flagship devices in the home market, which had not been previously available there.

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Arrival of eSIM is Altering How Consumers Interact With Operators

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  • by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @04:11PM (#63716840)
    It's funny how "second factors" are en vogue when used to inconvenience users to log into services. Yet when there is an established second factor, like a physical SIM card that cannot be cloned by malicious software, but that second factor costs a penny and does not bother the user, suddenly companies are eager to get rid of it, making authentication safety depend solely on the trustworthiness of the software running on the phone.
    • by nevermindme ( 912672 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @04:24PM (#63716860)
      But 60 cents per subscriber, an envelope and bulk mail isn't cheap compared to $15-$200/mo. This happens in every industry, the change is looked at in isolation to the product or the total package cost delivered. Saving 60 cents 120 million times is a big chunk of change, but loosing a physical tokens of hardware identity has an unknown value to people external to people in the know. Those of us who lived with hardware tokens most of it lives knew those keychains were 10g of burden but they were under our control and very unlikely to be exploited remotely.

      Now the soft tokens may or may not be secure....but management feeling is if our competitors are in the same pool, headline events at the providers and mobile vendors are a common defence. As long as microsoft breaks logins for everyone at the same time, I have heard them say, that wont get anyone fired.
      • Travel and eSIMs (Score:4, Informative)

        by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Thursday July 27, 2023 @01:32AM (#63717452) Journal

        But 60 cents per subscriber, an envelope and bulk mail isn't cheap compared to $15-$200/mo.

        Forget the cost, the major benefit of eSIMs is that they are instantly available. This makes them incredibly good for travel. I have a physical Canadian SIM for when in Canada and the US. However, when I'm in Europe I can just pay online, download an eSIM and then I have instant connectivity at a much cheaper rate than my Canadian provider charges for roaming. I'm using one right now and it's great.

        • by mjwx ( 966435 )

          But 60 cents per subscriber, an envelope and bulk mail isn't cheap compared to $15-$200/mo.

          Forget the cost, the major benefit of eSIMs is that they are instantly available. This makes them incredibly good for travel. I have a physical Canadian SIM for when in Canada and the US. However, when I'm in Europe I can just pay online, download an eSIM and then I have instant connectivity at a much cheaper rate than my Canadian provider charges for roaming. I'm using one right now and it's great.

          eSIMs are more difficult to put in than a physical SIM.

          Your problem with roaming is mainly due to a lack of competition and the corporations owning your government. I have a dual SIM phone, one SIM is my usual UK SIM which has great reception but terrible roaming, the second is a SIM that gets me free roaming in 72 countries. So it's a simple matter of just loading up &pound:5-10 before I go away, Switching the internet to the 2nd SIM at the airport and not worrying about a thing.

          Inserting a SIM c

          • eSIMs are more difficult to put in than a physical SIM.

            What are you talking about? Installing my eSIM involved pointing my phone at the QR code they provided and waiting for a few seconds while it downloaded the eSIM data.

            Installing a physical SIM requires me to find a pointy piece of wire that is thick enough to hold enough force to release the SIM tray and narrow enough to fit the opening. I then have to remove the SIM from the tray and find somewhere safe to store it because I will need it after I am back from travelling. Then I have to pop out the new S

        • by mhocker ( 607466 )

          Except that the opposite is also true. If you have a great global roaming package and want to move your eSIM to a new phone while traveling - you cannot. You must be on your home network to activate an eSIM.

          I've had this exact issue happen. It's a nuisance, but I put up with it because I have a non-US iPhone that still has a SIM slot so I could at least use one of my plans while overseas. US users would be hosed though.

    • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @04:30PM (#63716874) Homepage Journal
      I'm guessing it'll make setting up and using anonymous burner phones a bit more difficult for the average user that wants to do this....

      It's pretty easy if you wanna just buy a physical SIM card from time to time with cash....and they don't know what phone you'll plug it into, etc....

      With eSIMS anonymity goes out the window pretty much...right?

      • by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:07PM (#63716932)

        I'm guessing it'll make setting up and using anonymous burner phones a bit more difficult for the average user that wants to do this....

        It's pretty easy if you wanna just buy a physical SIM card from time to time with cash....and they don't know what phone you'll plug it into, etc....

        With eSIMS anonymity goes out the window pretty much...right?

        I think we replied at the same time. If they can associate you with a device you can still be tracked by IMEI of course, but pre-paid SIMs at least make it a lot harder. Hopefully cheap phones will continue to use physical SIMs, and they will continue to be available for people those people, as well as those using old hardware.

        • Now the original poster is thinking, "OMG! I thought I was safe using burner phones and swapping SIMs! They could track my phone through IMEI, What to do? man! First get rid of the burner now. Quit the job and move far far away from the beach where the bodies are buried. Then change facial hair, scalp hair, ... "
        • but pre-paid SIMs at least make it a lot harder

          In any country where pre-paid SIMs come without burden of identification, pre-paid eSIM providers exist without burden of identification. There's no change here in privacy. The only thing that has changed is how the service is provisioned, and quite critically everything a network provider could do with an eSIM they could do with a pre-paid SIM as well.

          The only thing that may happen is that burner phones get slightly more expensive.

          • I can go into a grocery store here, hand over £10 in cash, and get a SIM card with £10 of credit on it. If I buy an eSIM, presumably I have to pay for it using Apple/Google pay or by entering a bank card number and all the other associated details.

          • In any country where pre-paid SIMs come without burden of identification, pre-paid eSIM providers exist without burden of identification.

            So long as they take pre-paid credit cards (not everywhere that takes credit cards take pre-paid ones), and you trust the e-SIM app. What permissions they require on your phone would probably be telling.

            • So long as they take pre-paid credit cards

              Mate, this is the internet. Some providers of eSIM take bloody bitcoin, ether, or use payment services tied to gift cards. Every technological debauchery is available to you.

              and you trust the e-SIM app. What permissions they require on your phone would probably be telling.

              You don't need an e-SIM app. You get sent a provisioning barcode that the OS uses to provision the eSIM. At no point does a 3rd party app need to be involved and indeed I've never seen one myself, and the only reference to one I have is the Vodaphone app which was installed with ... the normal SIM they sent me (it has an eSIM button on

              • My phone does not do e-SIM, so I presume I would need an app, but I like it fine just the way it is and won't be looking for this "feature" anytime soon. One should not use a smartphone as a burner anyway, so SIM cards will remain the provisioning of choice for people who care about such things. As long as they don't go away (and I think there are enough phones out there that need them that they won't), I don't care.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Is there much difference with an eSIM? I used one last time I was travelling, and I didn't need to register any details with the service provider. I just scanned a QR code and it downloaded the eSIM to my phone. Examining the QR code, it's just a URL with a random looking identifier in it.

      • by Xenolith0 ( 808358 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:50PM (#63717018)

        If you're using a cell phone any expectation of anonymity or privacy goes out the window.

        First, you're incorrect on a physical sim swap hiding you. Your phone has an IMEI number that is reported to the whatever tower your phone connects to. This is a unique ID, kind of like a MAC address.

        Carriers track your location, and then turn around and sell it:
        https://www.vice.com/en/articl... [vice.com]

        iOS and Android constantly track and log your location and all actions taken on the phone "telemetry".

        Any of the popular apps are collecting everything they can then either selling it to 3rd parties or using it to target ads.

        • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @07:41PM (#63717154)
          Before eSIMs, one could buy both the SIM and phone for good 'ol cold hard cash without an ID. They'd know where the phone was, not who it belonged to, especially if people didn't turn it on at their home or work.
          • Before eSIMs, one could buy both the SIM and phone for good 'ol cold hard cash without an ID. They'd know where the phone was, not who it belonged to, especially if people didn't turn it on at their home or work.

            That is not unique to SIMs. In markts where SIMs can be purchased anonymously, so can eSIMs. The burden of identification comes from government requirements, and is not a function of eSIMs.

            eSIMs have changed nothing for your privacy because they are in every way, just a normal SIM except writable. And yes you can even buy eSIMs with bitcoin.

            • by flink ( 18449 )

              That is not unique to SIMs. In markts where SIMs can be purchased anonymously, so can eSIMs.

              How do you pay for an eSIM with cash? Do you buy a card with a scratch off window that has an QR code with the eSIM authenticator on it?

        • by Anonymous Coward

          And the Portland, Oregon FBI would round up all the Antifa members, record their phone IMEIs and use it to build a graph of who was messaging who. And use it to reverse engineer the organization's structure.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          As ever, it depends on your threat model.

          If you just need a burner phone number to make some new accounts on websites Gmail and Discord, then even an eSIM is fine. There's no way for the website operator to tie that phone number to the eSIM details.

        • First, you're incorrect on a physical sim swap hiding you. Your phone has an IMEI number that is reported to the whatever tower your phone connects to. This is a unique ID, kind of like a MAC address.

          Sure, they can track the phone.

          But if the phone and the SIM can be bought with cash anonymously, then, they should have a bit more difficult time in tracing WHO the phone belongs to and is using it, etc.

          To me the idea of a burner phone is to try to mask the identity of the user...not the existence of the har

      • by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:52PM (#63717024)

        As soon as you insert the sim card into your phone and it registers with the network, the IMSI (SIM card ID) and IMEI (Phone ID ) are associated with each other.
        If you put a new SIM card in your phone, the SIM cards can be traced as one because they've both been associated with the same IMEI.

        You never had anonymity by swapping physical SIM cards. eSIM doesn't change this at all.

        • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @09:55PM (#63717278)

          If you were stupid and inserted the prepaid SIM in your $1000 iPhone, they've got you. If you bought a $50 flip phone for cash, not so much. eSIMs just mean that the phone/eSIM package will be sold for cash together. And even the stupid criminals won't have to remember tat extra step.

          Of course, they are too dim to realize that a $1000 iPhone moving right next to a $50 burner are probably in the same person's pocket.

          • eSIMs just mean that the phone/eSIM package will be sold for cash together.

            They mean no such thing. Just because a device has an eSIM doesn't mean it will come pre-provisioned any more than a device with a SIM card slot always comes with a card inserted (they don't).

            Go buy your burner phone with an eSIM, then jump online and buy an anonymous eSIM package. Some sites even let you pay with bitcoin.

            • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

              Some phones do come pre provisioned with a sim, and could easily come pre provisioned with an esim. They could even take away the ability to provision a different esim, so the phone is truly a burner and you can't reuse either the service or the handset.

              As others have pointed out, reusing the sim in another handset or another sim in the same handset creates a link between those devices, something you want to avoid if you're trying to stay anonymous.

              • Yeah exactly. People seem to miss the point of the "burner phone". It's not a device that keeps you anonymous, never was. It's a device you toss in the fire when you're worried. The eSIM doesn't make the burner phone flame retardant.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Perhaps committing crimes with a cell phone isn't the brightest idea in the first place.

      • I am sure authorities would absolutely adore criminals that think they are hiding by switching physical sims in burner phones.
        • I am sure authorities would absolutely adore criminals that think they are hiding by switching physical sims in burner phones.

          No one is talking about being "hidden" with a burner phone....the physical location of the phone isn't what is trying to be masked.

          If you buy the phone and the SIM with cash you can help you anonymity since the phone and SIM are not in any way associated with your identity.

          This is useful when registering accounts that require a phone number, like say, a gmail account since Google

    • by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @04:35PM (#63716884)

      It's funny how "second factors" are en vogue when used to inconvenience users to log into services. Yet when there is an established second factor, like a physical SIM card that cannot be cloned by malicious software, but that second factor costs a penny and does not bother the user, suddenly companies are eager to get rid of it, making authentication safety depend solely on the trustworthiness of the software running on the phone.

      Unfortunately they may make "no-factor" more difficult as well. In many places you can buy a pre-paid SIM for cash with no ID required and have a "burner" phone that does not track you. I'm rather doubtful you will be able to get an e-SIM without some sort of registration process. Maybe that is even the plan all along.

      • Since you have to put the physical SIM in a phone to use it, which to be a "burner phone" you have to buy new each time with cash (or the SIM cards will all be linked to the same IMEI number), why not just buy a new eSIM phone every time?

        Before you had to buy a new SIM and phone each time, now you'll just have to buy a new phone, with no risk of accidentally using the same phone with multiple SIM cards, linking them together.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Since you have to put the physical SIM in a phone to use it, which to be a "burner phone" you have to buy new each time with cash (or the SIM cards will all be linked to the same IMEI number), why not just buy a new eSIM phone every time?

          Before you had to buy a new SIM and phone each time, now you'll just have to buy a new phone, with no risk of accidentally using the same phone with multiple SIM cards, linking them together.

          Firstly, if you need to register an eSIM there is no longer anything burner about it and being careful about EMEIs is moot.

          And of course you can buy old phones for cheap to use as burners. The EMEI may still be linked to someone. Hopefully nobody you know if you do it right.

          • by Anonymous Coward

            Firstly, if you need to register an eSIM there is no longer anything burner about it and being careful about EMEIs is moot.

            You don't have to "register" it anymore than a SIM.
            The only real difference is a phone app won't take cash directly. You'll have to use that cash to buy an anonymous pre-paid card to use in the app.

            Yes it is one additional step involved, but if your goal for a burner phone is to stay anonymous, odds are pre-paid gift cards are no stranger to you.

          • Firstly, if you need to register an eSIM there is no longer anything burner about it and being careful about EMEIs is moot.

            You don't need to register an eSIM, you need to provision the SIM on the device. This is not at all related to the device itself and the other than the fact that the process here is performed on your phone there's nothing linking your phone to your eSIM any more than a classical SIM. On top of that the eSIM can be erased just like a classical SIM can be removed from your device.

            And a burner phone is a phone that you're not worried about tossing and one you bought anonymously. You can buy phones anonymously.

      • I'm rather doubtful you will be able to get an e-SIM without some sort of registration process.

        You don't need to be doubtful. You absolutely can get e-SIMs without identification. Five seconds on Google will give you many such providers, some of them even accepting bitcoin or other fraudmoney as payments.

        Identification requirements have nothing to do with SIM cards and everything to do with local laws.

        • You don't need to be doubtful. You absolutely can get e-SIMs without identification. Five seconds on Google will give you many such providers, some of them even accepting bitcoin or other fraudmoney as payments.

          Yeah, but now you have to trust the app as well. I looked at a couple from Google. Then I looked at their Data Safety section. Of course they don't need your personal info at sign up if they can just get it from your phone.

          "This app may collect these data types Personal info, Financial info and 5 others"

          https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]

          https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]

    • by tomthegeek ( 1145233 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:07PM (#63716928)
      > making authentication safety depend solely on the trustworthiness of the software running on the phone. I wish that was the only problem. Mint users were reporting lots of coinbase hacks. Turns out Mint was very easy to social engineer your phone number away. Most people were using SMS authentication. So within hours (and without you knowing anything was wrong) they would port the eSim then empty your coinbase account. Mint finally added 2factor for customer service but only works if people turn it on.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yet when there is an established second factor, like a physical SIM card that cannot be cloned by malicious software, but that second factor costs a penny and does not bother the user, suddenly companies are eager to get rid of it

      If phone software can get at the private keys in the smartcard (on the main board) then that same software can get at the private keys in the smartcard (on the module)

      It's literally the same exact chip with the same communication protocol.

      It would be like you claiming the coin cell battery holder on my PC motherboard is somehow less of a battery because its not mounted outside of the PC case.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        If phone software can get at the private keys in the smartcard (on the main board) then that same software can get at the private keys in the smartcard (on the module)

        My phone cannot modify the keys on its physical SIM. The SIM must be physically removed and replaced.

        It's literally the same exact chip with the same communication protocol.

        No. The eSIM protocol must be able to write to the smartcard soldered to the main board.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          My phone cannot modify the keys on its physical SIM. The SIM must be physically removed and replaced.

          Yes, it can.
          You can instruct it to regenerate brand new keys, even to replace the old ones.
          You can lock a key and with the right code(s) you can unlock it again too.

          If your SIM isn't older than GSM, it can generate multiple keys in its multiple profile slots.

          You can even store unencrypted data on it that is unrelated to the key.
          Your carrier is likely using that storage to hold data about their network called MNCs

          The one and only thing a SIM exists to do is ensure you can NOT read out the private keys, only

    • by necro81 ( 917438 )

      like a physical SIM card that cannot be cloned by malicious software

      You've not heard of SIM cloning [google.com] before? Or SIM swapping [google.com]?

      SIMs are not good candidates for 2-factor authentication - no better than sending an SMS to the phone number the SIM card is linked to, and in some ways worse. SIM cards are not the same as hardware tokens [wikipedia.org] or TPM [wikipedia.org]s. Such concepts weren't in wide use when the SIM standard was introduced over 30 years ago.

    • Yes, lets have the 'second factor' be something that can be popped out with a sewing needle. Fantastic idea.
  • I have tried dual SIM (one pSIM one eSIM) and it does not help in my suburban hellscape environment.

    All three carriers have roughly the same coverage around here (often meh to poor). I blame the city and state for not making it easier for carriers to build towers on at city parks.

    • The major problem carriers see, if you can now easily have two accounts on your phone. Maybe one carrier does a deal with good rates on calls, another does one with good rates on data.
      Now you can pick and choose those that suit you, and have your phone only use data on a specific sim and only make calls on the other.
      You can also switch providers instantly, with no need to buy new SIM.

      • Or sometimes there are weird restrictions.

        The email-to-SMS addresses are blocked on the machines I have to monitor, except for the Verizon gateway.

        My iPhone XR was on TMobile (still the best family plan), so I moved it from a physical SIM to an eSIM, leaving the physical SIM slot open for a cheap Verizon reseller (Twigby) which I use for SMS only.

    • If you have a problem using it at home, just get T-mobile that does WiFi calling. If it's outside the home, enjoy. Kick back, tune out, relax, enjoy your freedom. A phone is really just an electronic leash. Embrace the vacation from constant connectedness. Ludd is good.
  • by fph il quozientatore ( 971015 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:14PM (#63716950)
    Oh yes, I am also sad and worried about all those poor corporations that cannot lock me into their service and prevent competition as easily as they used to do.
    • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @07:37PM (#63717150)
      It's actually easier for the mu'f'ckers to lock you in with an eSIM. No more swapping a SIM card between devices after you buy your own. You have to beg their gracious permission to activate a new device each time you get one, and chances are that they'll try to upsell you in some way if you have to interact with them or their app. This is a return to the bad old days of American CDMA networks, in fact. Awful and a bastardization of what GSM/LTE should be.
      • by ciurana ( 2603 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @10:45PM (#63717332) Homepage Journal

        It's actually easier for the mu'f'ckers to lock you in with an eSIM. No more swapping a SIM card between devices after you buy your own. You have to beg their gracious permission to activate a new device each time you get one, and chances are that they'll try to upsell you in some way if you have to interact with them or their app.

        This is inaccurate, at least for Apple devices. I have had up to 5 different eSIMs defined at any one time (I travel a lot), out of 8 possible slots. Any two can be active at any time. Right now I have the ones for my US and Thai lines active, other countries are dormant until I want/need them. eSIMs also give you flexibility to buy decent service before you arrive at the destination country (e.g. I'll stop in Taiwan in a few ways, can buy and keep a SIM ready until I land, then activate it).

        There's a slight chance that your comment applies =IF your device is on a deferred payment plan/mobile operator locked. I always buy my mobile devices outright, unlocked, so that I can put whatever SIM I want without dealing with 90-day carrier restrictions or similar. I never understood why Americans (yes, I'm American) love getting phones locked to operators. It's an expensive and limiting proposition.

        Cheers!

        • You failed to comprehend.

          I'm not talking about using 5 different eSIMs in a single device.

          I'm talking about swapping a SIM between phones without begging the carrier's gracious permission to do so.

          And no, I don't understand the carrier-locking thing either ... I bought my phone for "cash" (about $120) and pay between $15 and $30 per month for a pre-paid T-mobile plan, depending on how much data I want. Most people I know have a brand new iPhone and are paying 3-4x as much per month.

          • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

            And why would a carrier not let you transfer the service to a new handset?
            They want to sell you service, they want to make money from you using that service. Tying that service to a handset you're not going to continue using is bad business and they have no reason to do that. If you can't transfer your service from your iphone 11 to your iphone 14 you're not going keep using the 11, you're going to find a new service provider for the 14.

            • The carrier's incentives to force phone sales to go through them and control their infrastructure is greater than their incentive to make it easy for you to use their network.

              This isn't just conjecture. This is exactly how CDMA carriers operated until they were forced on the SIM train by LTE.

            • No. They want to make money by charging you $25 per month over 24 months for a handset that costs them $300 to buy. They're financing companies, at least in the Uni Stinks.
          • by ciurana ( 2603 )

            You failed to comprehend.

            I'm not talking about using 5 different eSIMs in a single device.

            I'm talking about swapping a SIM between phones without begging the carrier's gracious permission to do so.

            And no, I don't understand the carrier-locking thing either ... I bought my phone for "cash" (about $120) and pay between $15 and $30 per month for a pre-paid T-mobile plan, depending on how much data I want. Most people I know have a brand new iPhone and are paying 3-4x as much per month.

            Ah, understood your use case. Yes, makes sense. In the case of T-Mobile (my US carrier) you're right: you have to spend 5-10 min on the phone with them switching the eSIM from one device to another. I had to do that when I moved from my 3+ year-old iPhone to the new one last year. Very smooth on a regular day, yet I can see it becoming a chore on a busy day for iPhone support.

            There's a resurgence of regular, retro mobile phones in Asia these days. I'm tempted to get a Nokia look-alike and go back to s

            • So if I drop my phone with an eSIM, I have to call my provider and get a new phone activated with my own eSIM? How do I do that over the phone, meaning, how do I identify myself?
              • by ciurana ( 2603 )

                So if I drop my phone with an eSIM, I have to call my provider and get a new phone activated with my own eSIM? How do I do that over the phone, meaning, how do I identify myself?

                No idea how other carriers do it. T-Mobile and two of my international carriers have you set up a PIN alongside your account. You can't perform certain account changes, including reassigning an eSIM, without it.

                Moving the eSIM to a new device is trivial if you have all the right validation answers, and a royal pain if you don't. It's no different from some banking services, with the added advantage that none of the information you must provide is personal.

                Cheers,

            • And probably scream yourself hoarse at whatever jobsworth you're talking to.
            • by Mousit ( 646085 )

              ...I had to do that when I moved from my 3+ year-old iPhone to the new one last year...

              I'm guessing you also did that before November of last year. See, another facet of eSIM putting the carriers back in control of SIM swaps, is they can once again charge you for the privilege, as they used to be able to do back in the pre-SIM days. T-Mobile now does this [tmo.report], as of the end of last year. $35 for all device activations, which includes "upgrades" (i.e., swapping an existing eSIM/line to a different device). This fee previously only applied for in-store changes with employee assistance, but now

              • by ciurana ( 2603 )

                No charges. My iPhone was upgraded before November, but my girl's was upgraded in late December, when she got a new iPhone for Christmas. I have everyone at home on a business plan with 4 lines. There were no issues and no additional fees for moving her eSIM from the old to the new iPhone.

                T-Mobile does try hard to get me to buy the devices from them - screw them, it ain't happening. It's a lot cheaper to put some money aside every month in the "smartphone upgrade ETF" and upgrade to a new, top of the li

      • It's actually easier for the mu'f'ckers to lock you in with an eSIM.

        No it is not. I'm using an eSIM now for a visit to Europe. It was massively cheaper than what my Canadian carrier charges for roaming and was downloadable and installable instantly over WiFi - no need to wait for a physical SIM to arrive just shop online for the best eSIM deal, purchase it and you have a local number and data wherever you are visiting.

      • It's actually easier for the mu'f'ckers to lock you in with an eSIM. No more swapping a SIM card between devices after you buy your own.

        No it's not. The mu'f'ckers have zero control over your eSIM or how you provision it. That is a function of the device itself. You are free to erase, or reprovision them at any time with any provider without seeking permission from anyone.

        Awful and a bastardization of what GSM/LTE should be.

        It is literally no different from the present SIM system other than the SIM is writable by the user and a standard was developed for provisioning it via QR code.

        • OK. How do you export an eSIM from a phone and import it?

          People haven't had good swapping devices at the drop of a hat using some networks:

          https://forums.att.com/conversations/apple/moving-esim-between-phones/5df01d6cbad5f2f606125131
          https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/gpvqgt/figured_out_how_to_esim_swap_between_phones_wo/
          https://www.theverge.com/23412033/esim-phone-plan-device-switch-ios-android

          • OK. How do you export an eSIM from a phone and import it? People haven't had good swapping devices at the drop of a hat using some networks:

            Networks have always had unique and total power. In some cases they IMEI link SIMs so you can't swap them out without their approval. How do you do transfer an eSIM? The same way you provisioned it in the first place. I use eSIMs a lot because they are great for travelling and they are absolutely trivial to provision, deprovision, and yes I've moved them from one device to another (and given how last time I fucked around for an hour looking for a stupid pin to open the SIM cage on my normal device, it may a

            • > Networks have always had unique and total power. In some cases they IMEI link SIMs so you can't swap them out without their approval.

              In practice, this is not normally the case. I can move my SIM from one phone to another without making a request to the carrier.

              > How do you do transfer an eSIM? The same way you provisioned it in the first place.

              By making a request to the carrier?

              > Just log in online and get a new eSIM QR code issued.

              So, yes. By making a request to the carrier. That is specifica

        • by Mousit ( 646085 )

          No it's not. The mu'f'ckers have zero control over your eSIM or how you provision it. That is a function of the device itself. You are free to erase, or reprovision them at any time with any provider without seeking permission from anyone.

          Hate to break it to you, but you fundamentally do not understand how eSIM provisioning [wikipedia.org] works. The "mu'f'ckers" have total control over how the eSIM is provisioned. It is not performed on-device, not in the sense of access creation; the only thing the device does is accept access/auth information from the remote provisioning service and store it.

          It is literally no different from the present SIM system other than the SIM is writable by the user and a standard was developed for provisioning it via QR code.

          Might want to look up what that QR code actually does [wikipedia.org]. Or at least what the word "remote" means in provisioning. That QR code does nothing except tell your dev

  • by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @05:52PM (#63717022) Homepage
    I guess they mean carriers?
  • The eSIM is awesome. No more having to find a place to buy a SIM card when I travel. I was using Airalo. Simple app that you select the country and buy the amount of data you'd like. They also offer regional packages for a little more. So when I was traveling around Europe I was able to get coverage in the countries I'd be going to, without having to buy separate packages. Installs quick and easy, and like that I can set the data to go through their service, while still having my own number on the other eSI

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      I don't know if I'd be comfortable entering my passport number into some random operator's web site (if it's really their site) just to activate an eSIM.

      • What? Never had to do that when I signed up. That's really weird.

        • by PPH ( 736903 )

          It depends on where in the world you travel. In Germany (protective of privacy and cash) you can get outfitted with a cheap phone anonymously. In Greece, where they have internal terrorism problems (being next door to Turkey) you want a SIM? You show ID. Which for international travelers ends up being your passport. The Netherlands is funny. You can buy a SIM anonymously at a phone store. Sorry, no cash. Try that prepaid debit card and for some reason it doesn't work. "Why don't you try that bank-issued cr

    • by ciurana ( 2603 )

      The eSIM is awesome. No more having to find a place to buy a SIM card when I travel. I was using Airalo. Simple app that you select the country and buy the amount of data you'd like. They also offer regional packages for a little more. So when I was traveling around Europe I was able to get coverage in the countries I'd be going to, without having to buy separate packages. Installs quick and easy, and like that I can set the data to go through their service, while still having my own number on the other eSIM so I can send/receive normal texts. They seem to partner with the biggest carriers in most countries. Haven't run into coverage areas, even traveling around South Africa. You can get $3 free with code BEN6170 when ya sign up with them. It's one I keep around for any time I travel and need to be sure I've got coverage.

      Thanks for the heads up on Airalo -- I will give them a whirl next week during a day-long layover/explore the city somewhere. The service looks nice. I wouldn't use it for stays over 3 days -- their prices are too high. But for a tactical layovers it looks like a good option.

      Cheers!

    • What if you want to make local calls and send texts? I see data only plans for not very cheap (not to expensive either)...
  • by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @06:48PM (#63717102)
    When T-Mobile pissed me off by requiring to make my monthly payment in person, in cash every month because some idiot had used my phone number to test 11 credit cards to see if they had been inactivated, I switched to AT&T... and bought a new SIM card. Then, a few months later, when I switched back to T-Mobile, I asked why I couldn't just put my old SIM card back in. "No, you have to buy a new SIM EVERY TIME!" was their response. Yeah, their charging you $25 for a $0.25 chip, of course they love SIM cards!
    • Bullshit. BYOD activation just needs any old ICCID. Retail mobile carrier sales people don't know anything and will say anything if it works in their favor.
    • If you think they won't charge just as much for an eSIM activation, you may want to think again...
      • by Mousit ( 646085 )

        If you think they won't charge just as much for an eSIM activation, you may want to think again...

        They don't. They charge more [tmo.report].

        • Luckily, I live in Switzerland, where CHF 40 (USD 45) is the major networks' price for a SIM, so USD 35 would be cheaper. People here are so used to getting ripped off, they like it that way...
    • Not sure what you're on about. I've never paid for a SIM. They are given for free as part of your signup. You loose it, they send you a new one free. The SIM always works until they deprovision it (for non-payment, or for requests to transfer numbers).

      I sounds like T-Mobile flagged you as a very special customer. That doesn't make it a profit centre for them, that makes you a nuisance.

  • by caseih ( 160668 ) on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @07:15PM (#63717130)

    In what way? A risk you might actually have to keep customers happy? Offer choice and real competition?

    At what point does limitless greed destroy everything? I have never in all my life seen as much greed and dishonesty as naked and bold as we do today across all sectors, companies, and political parties.

  • Before eSIMs, you could stick the little chip in whatever phone was unlocked and supported it. Even use more than one phone regularly. Now you have to beg the carrier's gracious permission to switch devices. Why can't the eSIM be something that's transferrable between devices on a peer-to-peer basis?

    True, they may allow you to BYOD, but if you have to interact with them to switch devices, some will try as hard as possible to push a new device and a loan down your raw craw.

    • How do you create any level of security if the eSIM can be exported?

      • Simple lock/unlock switch on the carrier's website or app. Locked by default, click it and it will accept a device with new IMEI for a short period of time.
        • by PPH ( 736903 )

          Why do I have to interact with my carrier's web site to switch SIMs between phones?

          • You don't, for traditional SIMs. For eSIMs, you have to generate a new eSIM every time you switch devices.
    • by jjhall ( 555562 )

      I ran into this a few months back. I was switching from Android to iPhone (new car only does Car Play, not Android Auto.) I wanted to just buy the phone in the store, take it home, and activate it after I disabled RCS and everything. And I wanted to be able to possibly switch back and forth between phones for a bit. It was incredibly frustrating that the iPhone 14 I bought ONLY did eSIM, so they not only had to activate it at the time of sale, but it also meant the switch was one-way unless I wanted to c

      • At least in the Uni Stinks, anyway. iPhones sold in countries with real consumer protection laws still bring physical SIM slots.

        Oh, and fuck the car makers as well ... just give me a USB-C connector to connect a drive full of music and Bluetooth if I need to yap while driving. Stop with the proprietary vendor lock-in crap.

  • "So Mr. Apple, instead of being able to get local service anywhere in the world, you want to force me to use your "approved" carriers or buy a burner phone? Fuck you, I won't upgrade then."
    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      esim is not an apple thing, apple were not even the first to implement it, they are just the first to make an esim-only device.
      operators are actually being very slow to roll out esim, despite the fact that it will save them money and make new options available.

  • I've had to reissue a couple of devices due to turnover, and what used to be a fairly simple process (wipe device with MDM, issue to new user who logs in with corporate credentials and device is auto provisioned with DEP) has become a 30+ minute process because wiping the device removes the fucking eSIM. Not a problem if the device is with the same user (it's in the backup) but when reissuing, it has so far required the call center to do something on their end for the device to be reprovisioned.

  • I see a bunch of advantages, but also disadvantages and things that aren't clear to me.

    If I lose my phone, how do I get the same number back? Granted, possibly similar as with physical SIM cards. But if I kill my phone (dropping, mangling, ...), a physical SIM may well still be functional and will then directly work in a functional phone.

    If I delete the eSIM from the phone, how can I get it back? Or is that never necessary, and can I always reactivate an eSIM that I've already previously used on my phone?

  • "eSIM also means the risks to operators of dual SIM devices that have long been common in many international markets are arriving

    The "risks" they are talking about is the ability of their customers to easily switch providers. In many countries can walk into a shop, get a $8 Claro SIM and the next day get a different one if I want. I don't need to talk to Claro about it. They want to eliminate a simple and straightforward system that works great and involves minimal hassle. I mean, I get that downloading is

  • A couple of times, I have replaced one dual SIM phone with another. Putting the SIMs in took about 20 to 30 seconds, perhaps less. Last year, my new Pixel 7 did not have dual slots. One sim went in in seconds but the other, my work number, needed me to phone the phone company and it took, perhaps, half an hour.

    No. eSIMs are not straightforward and in a few years when I feel like replacing this phone, one of my criteria will be it having dual SIM slots. I will need to call that phone company again but ju

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