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Transportation

Are Electric Vehicles Killing the Spare Tire? (msn.com) 314

The "vast majority of battery-powered and hybrid cars" don't have a spare tire, reports the Los Angeles Times.

Honda told one complaining customer that "if the vehicle is in an accident, the spare tire can cause damage to the electric battery which could cause a failure in the battery." But according to the Times, "car design experts said that explanation was plausible but far-fetched." There's a simpler explanation for the move away from spare tires: They're too big and heavy, and people don't really need them anymore... Car manufacturers have been ridding their sedans and smaller SUVs of full-sized spares for some time. In 2018, Consumer Reports said, 60% of the vehicles it had tested over the previous five years came with small-sized temporary tires ("doughnuts"), and only 10% came with full-sized spares... The best-selling models of electric sedans and SUVs — Teslas, the Chevy Bolt, the Volkswagen ID.4, the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Hyundai Ioniq 5, the BMW i4 and the Mercedes EQS — have no spare of any kind, even if they come with a premium price tag. Ditto for hybrids; the Toyota Prius, for example, hasn't included a spare since 2016.

That's not because people magically stopped having flat tires. U.S. drivers suffer 94 million flat tires a year, according to LookupAPlate.com, a site that collects reports about bad drivers... Finding space for a spare is particularly challenging for a car powered by something other than gasoline, designers say. "Pushing the range of EVs requires batteries, electrical systems control units or hydrogen tanks to encroach into the traditional places that spare tires are found: under the trunk floor," said Geoff Wardle, executive director of transportation systems and design at the ArtCenter College of Design. The space crunch is worse for hybrids, which require room for both a battery system and an internal combustion engine, said Scott Grasman, dean of the College of Engineering at Kettering University in Flint, Mich.

The extra weight always made it a little harder to meet fuel efficiency requirements — but spare tires also increase manufacturing costs, the article notes. "And tires for an EV may be more expensive than those for a gas-powered vehicle of the same size. That's because EVs tend to be heavier than their gas-fueled counterparts, so they require sturdier tires. And with comparatively quiet engines, they need tires that don't generate as much road noise."

But Gil Tal, director of the Electric Vehicle Research Center at UC Davis, also pointed out to the Times that today's tires are just much better and more durable than they used to be: And because federal regulations require new cars to have tire pressure indicators, he said, drivers are alerted as soon as their tires need air. "In most cases, flat tires ... are the outcome of long low-pressure driving," he said. "And if you drive a modern car, it will tell you [that] you have low pressure long before you get into the catastrophic failure" of a flat.
So what are car manufacturers doing now? According to the article...
  • Some manufacturers swap in inflatable spares that take up just a third of the space.
  • Some cars ship with puncture kits since, the article points out, many people don't know how to change a tire anyways, and will probably just call a tow truck. "For these drivers, carmakers may safely assume that a can of Fix-a-Flat will be more useful..." (Others like Tesla and GM offer roadside assistance programs.)

Some car manufacturers are also using self-sealing or run-flat tires — but Wardle tells the Times these are "good if it is just a puncture from a nail but useless if you hit a pothole and split the rim and sidewall."


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Are Electric Vehicles Killing the Spare Tire?

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  • Road Trip (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hunter44102 ( 890157 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @04:42PM (#63782976)
    There are still areas with poor cell service and it would suck to have a flat at the worst of possible places. They should at least give an option to pay for a spare to be included for trips
    • Run Flat Tyres (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @04:59PM (#63783030) Journal
      If there is no spare then I'd want run-flat tyres for exactly that reason. You can go a reasonable distance on them at a reduced, but reasonable speed which is often all you can do with a spare tyre nowadays too since they are not full-size replacements.
    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      Considering those places are more likely to result in a dead battery than a flat tire (which IMO is more common in urban centers with sloppy laborers), I'd say the space and weight is much better served with a couple miles more range.

      That said, it's going to seriously suck to have an EV like this in a city where there's all sorts of trash in the road that'll pop tires. I remember having 2, 3 flats a year from that crap. Usually from nails or screws off some laborer's truck.

    • by chill ( 34294 )

      This company [modernspare.com] specializes in spare tires.

      • by laktech ( 998064 )
        you can ride with it in your lap.
      • $360-$470 for my car. Which didn't come with a spare, though it has the place for it, just currently taken up by a big foam piece and a tire fill kit.

        Which was completely useless because the hole in my tire was so big. Ended up having to use a plug kit(not included) to get a seal.

        I'd rather get a rim from the junkyard, I just keep forgetting.

        Though yes, some of the price is also because they deleted the jack and any way to remove the tire. In my case I just ended up bringing a floor jack from home in my

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jemm ( 747958 )
      It isn't just the spare, you also need a jack which might be the actual issue. Modern large EVs are heavy so will require a strong jack to raise the vehicle.That jack will also need to be easy to use in terms of safety and mechanical advantage.
      • by gmack ( 197796 )

        The jacks that come with many ICE cars are a joke anyways. I will never forget trying to change the tire on my friend's BMW only to have the jack fail. In the end I called road side who pulled out a real jack, fixed the tire and then asked "Why even bother trying to do it yourself?"

        • Hehe... and even had you gotten the jack in place, you would have been unlikely to be able to loosen the bolts. Ask me how I know :(

          • by Khyber ( 864651 )

            Because you failed to do the lug loosening while the vehicle was on the ground BEFORE placing the jack?

            • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

              It's honestly sad how many people don't seem to have the basic handyman skills nowadays. Especially among the engineering types. You'd think once you lift the car up without loosening the bolts on the ground and not being able to move them, you'd go "hmm, wheel spins when I try to loosen the bolts, what if I lower it back on the ground so they can't move any more..."

            • Because you failed to do the lug loosening while the vehicle was on the ground BEFORE placing the jack?

              Or because the last grease monkey who tightened the lug nuts held an impulse wrench on them for half a minute. I have known lug nuts to need a wrench extended with a 3' length of scaffold pole to undo them, and the AA guys* carry such a pole in their trucks in case it is needed.

              * AA = UK equivalent of the AAA

    • Re:Road Trip (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:53PM (#63783176)

      Before EVs the spare tires were already going away. For awhile it was the mini donut tires, just barely good enough to get you to a service station. Then tires with more puncture resistance. And tires that will let you drive on them when deflated. I've seen non-EVs without spares. You still see spares on the back of SUVs though, they are there to send a message that you're a robust outdoors person even though you only use the SUV to take the kids to soccer.

    • by Sique ( 173459 )
      You surely can get a spare tire for your car at some car parts dealer. And then you can find a place in your car to store it. But that does not necessarily mean that everyone needs a spare tire for their car. Most people don't. And it's more convenient for them to just call AAA and be done with it.
      • The problem is the 1-5% of people who do actually need spare tires. In Alaska many drivers carry two spares as an extreme example. I am sure it is true of other places as well, even if the number of people is small.

        • Confirmed.

          On a trip from Fairbanks to Deadhorse, I got FOUR flat tires. Two on the way up, two on the way back. Had I got gotten the two on the way up fixed in Coldfoot on my way north, I would have been screwed on the way back. Had I only had one spare, i would have been screwed too.

          I got five new tires when I got back to Fairbanks (;

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Most decent cars come with a space for spare wheel below the baggage compartment. In more modern cars, the space is shallower and won't fit a standard wheel because spare is a narrow wheel rather than a standard one, but it's still there.

        Deleting this entirely is a novel thing.

      • by short ( 66530 )

        The only place where even just a small donut tire fits in Model 3 is the trunk. And then you no longer have a trunk which is a pretty valuable space in the small Model 3.

        Why to lose half of a day waiting for a road service when it can be replaced in 15 minutes. Waiting for the road service will ruin all your planned stuff.

    • Assuming that your vehicle (or soon, cell phone) doesn't already have one -- you can buy a satellite emergency beacon for $100 at your favorite outdoor shop. Cheaper than a spare tire, doesn't take up valuable space or weigh down a vehicle.

      Plus it's useful if you have any other mechanical failure other than a tire or go on a hike/canoe ride. Just better all around emergency tool than a heavy single-purpose for a bit less than the cost of a donut tire.

    • by rlwinm ( 6158720 )
      My car didn't come with one. When I bought it I negotiated that they must buy me a rim and a full size tire for a spare. I keep it with me wherever I go. Of course I don't have an EV so I actually have enough range for a nice trip into the woods!
    • There is nothing stopping anybody from buying a spare wheel/tire and carrying it with them in the trunk/rear of the vehicle. You don't need the auto manufacturer to include one.
    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      To make it worse, most electric cars ship with tyres specifically modified to for extra weight. The problem with these tyres is that they get really easily punctured when you drive at any meaningful speed over gravel. Where common car tyre deforms, these are harder to handle extra weight, so bigger and sharper gravel just goes into it and punctures it if you're lucky, and slices it if you're not. Former, you can apply a temporary sealing kit and at least drive a few kilometers without fucking up the rims be

    • Long story short, I was primed for a long time to buy the Buick TourX when it came out. It finally came out. I went to the dealer fully prepared to buy the $43K vehicle (this was 5-6 years ago). Took it for a test drive, still wanted to buy. I asked about spare tire. Doesn't have one. Doesn't even have an OPTION for one. What a dumb way to lose a sale.

      How the fuck can you call your vehicle a TOURx and not have a spare tire?

      Assholes.

  • Nope (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 20, 2023 @04:45PM (#63782986)
    I drive everywhere and my spare tire is bigger than ever!
  • by avandesande ( 143899 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @04:55PM (#63783012) Journal
    How many people now actually know how to change a tire?
    • and most of those that don't can work it out in a few mins, it isn't exactly rocket science.the half page of diagrams most cars come with is more than sufficient.
    • Every competent licensed driver.

      And many competent unlicensed drivers.

    • Not know how, but are willing to get their hands dirty. I'd be mortified if I had to do degrading manual labour to change a filthy tyre in front of everyone only to get my Gucci endangered species top stained.
    • How many people now actually know how to change a tire?

      I rotate my own tires every 7,500 miles.

      • I didn't ask how many slashdotters can change their tire, I said how many people. I am sure woman are at least half drivers, how many could do it? How many men that never touched a tool in their life?
    • by xeoron ( 639412 )
      All you need is google to find a video on how to change a tire.
    • by Octorian ( 14086 )

      I find it interesting that "knowing how to change a tire" is such a big deal for so many people. Nobody ever taught me how to do it. I just found myself in a situation where it needed to be done, opened the car manual, and kinda just figured it out. The hardest part was figuring out how to unpack the folded up jack that came with the car, because I think that was the only bit that wasn't covered by step-by-step instructions.

  • by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:08PM (#63783056) Homepage
    I do like my Tesla a lot but this issue does bite. I had a sidewall fail due to road side debris in a rural area. The Tesla roadside assist was completely useless and a 'repair kit' would have been use too. I was just lucky a local tire franchise had their act together and was able to help me efficiently and promptly. The annoying thing is there is a large storage area in the rear where a tire would traditionally go and quite a bit of space in the frunk. I'm pretty sure they could have supplied something and it feels like they just took a trendy cost saving, that annoys me at the price point a Tesla sells at.
    • But whatever the nearby tire place had on-hand probably wasn't the right type or quite the right size for your Tesla, was it?
      • by ukoda ( 537183 )
        No, it wasn't, they had to order the correct one in which took a few days. However, they came out to where I was, removed the wheel and fitted a temporary tire of the same size so I could use the car until the correct tire arrived. Basically I was back on the road within an hour which was pretty damn good for a rural location. Basically they earned themselves the right to be my go to supplier for tires because of their can do attitude.
        • Ah I was assuming you'd had to buy a tire and junk it when you could get the right one.
          • by ukoda ( 537183 )
            If I had lived in a big city they would have had the tire in stock. This goes back 3 years, when I was the only Tesla in town. I suspect the local tire shop will now have stock of them as there are now several Teslas around here.

            From what I can tell BEVs are quite popular with rural folk, and those who travel long distances, because of the lack of rural gas stations and the high cost of gas in my country (New Zealand). Also when you are rural you have plenty of space for solar panels.
    • by Cyberax ( 705495 )
      The problem is the wheel size. If you have 19" wheels then it simply won't fit into the frunk or the trunk.

      I take my Tesla to racetracks, and I carry racing wheels with special racing tires. I've tried putting them everywhere in the car, but I have to pile them on the folded backseats, because they simply don't fit anywhere.
      • by ukoda ( 537183 )
        I have the Model 3 Performance and wheels do look like they would take up lot of space. However I am not a Tesla employee paid to solve their problems and I can't help but think that if it was a design requirement they could have engineered the space needed.
  • Get alert from TPM, drive to closest service station. No extra weight in car. Turns out after googling around, they're putting fix-a-flat in there??? I'd rather have a donut. I've heard fix-a-flat just creates a lot of extra labor for the guy who was to fix things, and they'll charge you to remove the gunk, clean the wheel, etc.

    My current vehicle has a donut. I guess run-flats didn't turn out so well. What was the problem?

    • by ichthus ( 72442 )
      Absolutely this. EVs are not the first cars to come without spares. Mini Coopers don't, either (at least, not in the US).
    • I've heard fix-a-flat just creates a lot of extra labor for the guy who was to fix things, and they'll charge you to remove the gunk, clean the wheel, etc.

      It also causes balance issues, sometimes serious ones if it gets stuck to one side. Also good luck getting them to do that properly. With the pressure to get it done fast they won’t clean it properly and very slow bead leaks are likely. I’ve seen this happen more than once, it’s annoying as hell to have to keep taking it back or inflating it once per week to maintain pressure. Fix-a-flat is great for tires that never get over 30mph like lawn tractors and hand trucks but shouldn’t

  • by Dusanyu ( 675778 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @05:10PM (#63783060)
    Back when I was a Still in High school 95-97 I worked at a Sears auto center, and i will agree it is convenient for someone stranded on the side of the road (when and if it works at all anything larger than a nail and you are SOL.) It is extremely annoying or even dangerous for the person working on the tire and can even harm the tire. On the tech side it fills the tire with a heavy Gas and a milky sticky fluid that has to be cleaned out before the tire can be serviced to make matters worse If your can of the goop is older it can be both Flammable and explosive. The stuff also gets all over shop equipment and causes hours of cleanup time for someone who is already working an extremely hot, dangerous backbreaking job. On the tire side Fix a flat damages the inner wall of your tire and can even cause slow leeks not to mention the danger of people who put the stuff in and think "there i fixed it" and don't see a Tire center for proper service resulting on what is in essence a temporary fix just to give out and cause another road hazard situation. Cars are dangerous tools and should be respected just like any other extremely dangerous tool like a firearm is One laps in judgement with either and you hurt or kill someone or yourself If you don't properly Maintain it you can Kill or injure yourself or someone else. Just like a person who does not know how to Safely use, clan and maintain a Firearm should stay off the range If you cant do something as simple as change a flat tire you probably should be walking or taking the bus. For those who don't want to take the word of a old Tire Flipper here is a article on fix a flat https://www.liveabout.com/fix-... [liveabout.com]
    • I agree and fix-a-flat is really like using a sledgehammer to hammer a nail.. because most flats people get are small punctures.

      For those a tire plug kit is much better. You get a kind of hand drill to clean up the hole, a tool to press a long rubber plug inside the hole, and often also some cement to help the rubber plug bond with the tire.

      These plugs can hold up really well, and if you have enough you can even sometimes plug up a gash larger than just a hole.

      And, as noted, they don't present a danger to

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Hodr ( 219920 )

      As a counter point, I had a slow leak that would cause my lawn-tractor tire to be flat every other mow. Did fix-a-flat 6 years ago and she's been good ever since.

    • didn't so so by choice. I've known people who drive on what can no longer be called tires. Buddy of mine did a 120 mile (one way) road trip on completely bald tires. I an ant spit on the road in front of him he was gonna go spinning out of control. But his mom was in the other city, him having moved for work, and she was sick. So you do what you have to do.

      Best part? Cars and tires have gotten crazy expensive. I spent $800 replacing 4 tires recently... on an entry level 4 door sedan. Nice enough tires,
  • I've heard that vehicle tires are now the main source of pollution from vehicles; the material of the tire grinds off on the road surface producing fine particulate matter that gets swept up into the air.

    So get rid of the spare tire AND the tires on the road... somehow...

    • Tire wear is really no worse than it's been in the past. According to Nokian Tyres they claim modern EVs actually experience less tire wear than their ICE counterparts. On the balance it's more or less equivalent especially if you use tires specifically made for EVs..

      But even if an EV goes through tires twice as fast, that doesn't even begin to undo the air quality improvements from not burning fuels locally (if at all).
      =Smidge=

      • Tire wear is really no worse than it's been in the past. According to Nokian Tyres they claim modern EVs actually experience less tire wear than their ICE counterparts. On the balance it's more or less equivalent especially if you use tires specifically made for EVs..

        But even if an EV goes through tires twice as fast, that doesn't even begin to undo the air quality improvements from not burning fuels locally (if at all).
        =Smidge=

        Agreed, its just that as exhaust pollution has dropped, except for where the most common kind of 'car' is a truck, the residual pollution from vehicles is the wear from the tires.

      • by caseih ( 160668 )

        No, it's exactly opposite. EVs wear tires faster than ICE. Part of that is the weight, part of that is the higher, constant acceleration. A Tesla can burn rubber, and often does, although you don't hear them squawk necessarily. The numbers I've read are 20-30% faster wear than ICE cars. There are a number of articles about this in the car magazine. And some news pieces I've seen.

    • Hovercraft have been built, but the fuel economy is truly dreadful, and the noise is horrendous.

  • When I last shopped for a car 5 years ago, many didn't have a spare, just the fix-a-flat spray can. I suppose not having the 50-80 pounds saves a few gallons a year. But at the rate car prices keep climbing, I doubt cost has much to do with it.

    Personally, I am more frustrated how electric cars are killing electric cars. The batteries are way too big and way too heavy (not to mention way too expensive) and are wasting too much energy moving itself around. I would like a small battery that has enough juice for commuting, and I wish Detroit would make a good quality, light weight and range commuter electric vehicle, not these monstrous monstrocities like the Ford f150 Lightning. Until then, I think I'll settle for a plug-in hybrid.

    • What you are describing is a Nissan Leaf. You can get a used Nissan Leaf for as little as $5,000. They aren't more popular because of range anxiety.
    • Yeah all idiots designing cars should just make a lighter battery. Why did no one think of that sooner?

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      When I last shopped for a car 5 years ago, many didn't have a spare, just the fix-a-flat spray can. I suppose not having the 50-80 pounds saves a few gallons a year. But at the rate car prices keep climbing, I doubt cost has much to do with it.

      Personally, I am more frustrated how electric cars are killing electric cars. The batteries are way too big and way too heavy (not to mention way too expensive) and are wasting too much energy moving itself around. I would like a small battery that has enough juice fo

  • And because federal regulations require new cars to have tire pressure indicators, he said, drivers are alerted as soon as their tires need air.

    BR.

    Considering the number of vehicles I see where at least one tire is visibly in need of air, drivers are not alerted.

    • Sure, they just ignore it.

      You've never been in someone else;s car and seen 1 or more idiot lights and they said they knew but they weren't important? Or they'll look at them next month? Or some other stupid shit?

    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      You think users pay any attention to warning lights/alerts?

  • When cars were a novel thing, tires failed constantly. When my father was first driving, it was common enough you never went on a long trip without checking your spare. When I was young... flats resulted from driving over a nail in a parking lot. When I was a bit older, you mostly didn't bother with a spare and just called a tow.

    The failure rate is low enough these days that gambling on the cost of a tow is a reasonable proposition unless you're planning on being far from the nearest auto shop. Even the

  • It's pretty common in Europe. My 12 years-old car doesn't have one, and it never bothered me. Cell coverage is pretty good in Europe too, so knowing you can just call someone if need be can be good for the peace of mind. And the car is actually provided with a small puncture-repair kit, which allows to drive for 40-50 kms if need be. Never had to use it.

    Funny thing is that it's mostly old people who are worried about that. Like my step-mother, who didn't like the idea of not having a spare tire last time sh

    • Funny thing is that it's mostly old people who are worried about that. Like my step-mother, who didn't like the idea of not having a spare tire last time she bought a car.

      Understandable why those with less experience would not care.

      Personally check my spare to make sure it is topped up once a year when swapping snow tires. Why do I bother? Spares have proved useful to me in the past due to nails in the roadway rapidly reducing the pressure gradient between atmosphere and tire.

      And the car is actually provided with a small puncture-repair kit

      These only further damage tires.

      Cell coverage is pretty good in Europe too, so knowing you can just call someone if need be can be good for the peace of mind.

      You either call a friend or family member to help you requiring them to store and transport a spare tire anyway wasting their time as well as yours as you wait.

      Call for

  • Tires on EVs wear out substantially faster than on combustion engine vehicles. Roughly 20% faster [howelectriccarswork.com] depending on how the person drives. Also, tires for EVs are more expensive due to the heavier weight of the vehicle [autoevolution.com].

    While EV drives will save on fuel and maintenance costs, they're paying more for tires which need replaced more often.

    • While EV drives will save on fuel and maintenance costs, they're paying more for tires which need replaced more often.

      This is not true (at least if you are driving more than 10000kms/year), and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in question.

  • by awwshit ( 6214476 )

    My last ICE car did not come with a spare, it came with an air pump and a can of fix-a-flat. That car is almost 10 years old.

  • I am told, they try to keep the weight down to increase the mileage slightly. Instead there is a repair kid to fix and inflate the broken tire.
  • I don't drive it much so the one time I got a flat driving over some debris I watched the pressure on that tire slowly go from 32 psi (normal) down to about 8 psi but never actually ran down to rims. I never had run flats before so this was an interesting experience as I'm used to a tire blowing out with that much damage and having to immediately pull over.

    No need to use the spare though because the run flats are rated for 50 miles and I needed a new tire anyway so found a local dealer to get a new tire on

  • Yet another misleading headline. From the article:

    Car manufacturers have been ridding their sedans and smaller SUVs of full-sized spares for some time.

    So, no, it's not limited to electric vehicles.

    (Or, perhaps, it's just an example of Betteridge's Law of Headlines:
      Are Electric Vehicles Killing the Spare Tire?: No.)

  • Been there, done that. Had a BMW (not EV) with run flats and no spare. Hit a nasty pothole on the Bruckner Expressway and quickly got a low pressure warning. The pothole had shattered the sidewall of the tire. No tire in a can would fix that. No spare. Nothing. 100 miles from home. BMW roadside assistance was of no help because we were on a state highway and they would not come to help until we got off. They recommended that we don't drive the car (thanks for the oxymoron). We drove off the highway to a dif

  • by redback ( 15527 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @06:52PM (#63783314)

    Yet another case of Not an EV thing, its a Modern Car thing.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @07:03PM (#63783342)

    ... a full sized spare on the roof rack. With the 2 jerry cans of gas, Hi-Lift jack, shovels, bicycles and canoes.

  • The car industry cutting costs is.
  • by caseih ( 160668 ) on Sunday August 20, 2023 @08:27PM (#63783498)

    Spare aren't that important and haven't been for years. But I hope we get over this fad of giant rims and low-aspect ratio tires. They are way more susceptible to side-wall damage. And they have a poorer ride, especially on heavy modern cars.

    Was reading the other day that electric cars are so much heavier than ice cars that they are going through tires at a much higher rate than ICE cars. And if you scrub a curb with a heavy car and low-aspect ratio tires, the chances of tearing the sidewall is very high.

    As an aside, we talk often about plastic pollution, but I wonder what the effect on the environment is of all the billions of particles of synthetic rubber our tires shed every day. I'm just curious.

    • by caseih ( 160668 )

      Actually it's worse than blowing a sidewall. With very low aspect ratio tires and large rims, it's not uncommon to ruin the rim hitting the curb from the size. And modern, large aluminum rims are very expensive. I guess in this sort of situation, run-flat or emergency patch inflation systems will help. You'll need a tow and a whole new wheel. So I concede a spare would be helpful here.

      My brand new Grand Cherokee has a full-size spare tire, which I was happy to pay for, just in case. And it's always goo

  • My Ford Escape Hybrid came with a spare, Ok a doughnut, but it was standard equipment on all but the base model in 2020. I'm getting 45 mpg over the course of 20,000 miles on the car AND I have a spare. Don't blame the weight blame greed. Not having a spare is unacceptable unless you only ever drive in a city where everything could be walking distance anyway.
  • ...is cell phones. With everyone having one and coverage nearly everywhere, a tow truck/roadside service is just a call away.
  • ...all my flats have been from road debris punctures, multiple a decade, had one just a month or so ago that went fast enough the sidewall had issues too which would not have been resolved by a can of fix-a-flat.

    People know how to change tires, they just don't do it, or claim they don't. If you can unscrew the lid of a water bottle, you have all the necessary knowledge to unscrew and screw a jack and lug nuts.

    I'd be annoyed if I got a car and had to separately get a spare and stick it somewhere random inst

  • If there is no room for a spare, how is there room for luggage and a family of four on a two week trip,? More like evs are the death of the family road trip.
  • by ThumpBzztZoom ( 6976422 ) on Monday August 21, 2023 @09:37AM (#63785050)

    "In most cases, flat tires ... are the outcome of long low-pressure driving," he said.

    So far, 100% of all flat tires I have ever had have been caused by nails, screws, or other road debris, and also 100% of everyone I know's flat tires have been caused by road debris (Ok, one ran into a curb while trying to do a burnout - not debris, but also clearly not a pressure issue). This is just a blatant lie, there is zero truth to this at all. Gil Tal literally made it up, and it's not even remotely plausible. I've driven a sports car for years with the tire pressure checked every weekend, and an old truck who I checked maybe once a year, between the two I've had dozens of flats (3 in one week, until I learned to avoid streets that anyone on it is getting a new roof both while their working on it and a few days after they're done), none have been from low pressure.

    I'm sure there have been people who have gotten flats from running their tires too low, but that takes a massive lack of self awareness to never even look at their tires when the car starts pulling to the direction of the low pressure. You would need to run at low single digit pressures for a long distance before the sidewall chewed away to get a flat, and that is clearly an exception, not a typical case.

    Pretty sure most of his other reasons are bullshit, too, but there's really no point in checking or even reading any further after including this "claim" as remotely having anything to do with reality. The guy clearly has no idea about this subject at all and just made up answers on the spot to act like he was competent, and doesn't want to say a can of Fix-a-flat equivalent costs them $5, and the spare tire costs them closer to $40.

    The true interview would have went like this:
    "Why are you not including a spare tire?"
    "($35 * number of cars produced) is why."

"We live, in a very kooky time." -- Herb Blashtfalt

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