Hundreds of Flying Taxis To Be Made In Ohio (apnews.com) 98
Under an agreement announced Monday, Joby Aviation will build hundreds of electric vertical takeoff and landing (eVTOL) aircraft in the same Ohio river valley where the Wright brothers pioneered human flight. The Associated Press reports: Joby's decision to locate its first scaled manufacturing facility at a 140-acre (57-hectare) site at Dayton International Airport delivers on two decades of groundwork laid by the state's leaders, Republican Lt. Gov. Jon Husted said. Importantly, the site is near Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and the headquarters of the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratories. The Wright brothers, Orville and Wilbur, lived and worked in Dayton. In 1910, they opened the first U.S. airplane factory there. To connect the historical dots, Joby's formal announcement Monday took place at Orville Wright's home, Hawthorn Hill, and concluded with a ceremonial flypast of a replica of the Wright Model B Flyer.
Joby's production aircraft is designed to transport a pilot and four passengers at speeds of up to 200 miles (321.87 kilometers) per hour, with a maximum range of 100 miles (160.93 kilometers). Its quiet noise profile is barely audible against the backdrop of most cities, the company said. The plan is to place them in aerial ridesharing networks beginning in 2025. The $500 million project is supported by up to $325 million in incentives from the state of Ohio, its JobsOhio economic development office and local government. With the funds, Joby plans to build an Ohio facility capable of delivering up to 500 aircraft a year and creating 2,000 jobs. The U.S. Department of Energy has invited Joby to apply for a loan to support development of the facility as a clean energy project.
Joby's production aircraft is designed to transport a pilot and four passengers at speeds of up to 200 miles (321.87 kilometers) per hour, with a maximum range of 100 miles (160.93 kilometers). Its quiet noise profile is barely audible against the backdrop of most cities, the company said. The plan is to place them in aerial ridesharing networks beginning in 2025. The $500 million project is supported by up to $325 million in incentives from the state of Ohio, its JobsOhio economic development office and local government. With the funds, Joby plans to build an Ohio facility capable of delivering up to 500 aircraft a year and creating 2,000 jobs. The U.S. Department of Energy has invited Joby to apply for a loan to support development of the facility as a clean energy project.
Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:1)
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:2)
Archer has a sexier looking aircraft.
Re:Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:4, Interesting)
Throw your little folding scooter/inline-skates/folding-bike in your backpack and go from the landing pad a mile or two to your downtown destination via kicks... Ahh yeah, much better than stressing with downtown driving and paying to park.
Most Americans will circle the parking lot several times to get a parking spot ten feet closer to the door, rather than walk that extra ten feet, you really think they'll take a taxi a mile or so from their destination then hoof it "on foot" via a scooter or inline skates?
What large cities like San Francisco, Chicago, New York and the like need to do is outlaw personal vehicles in the city and invest in some good public transportation. NY has the subway system, so pretty much all they have to do is get rid of the personal vehicles, and maybe up the bus system.
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:1)
Good public transportation is always empty in Chicago, and it is always a city bus clogging up streets for my Uber.
Public transportation, even if on time, takes 150-300% longer than a car.
It keeps people poor by allowing them to live 90 minutes each way from work instead of making their bosses have to pay them better to afford to live closer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:1)
That is because it makes a 20 min drive into a 3 hour ride on a public toilet
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
sorry to rape you so hard, maybe you should go wash your cunt out
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true (Score:2)
Public transport is usually faster than driving where I live. Sold my car for that reason. It was literally useless. When you took parking into account driving to and from work took twice as long as the train
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:4, Insightful)
The only problem with public transportation is the public. ;-)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That's my point ... rank individualism and lack of concern about others breeds the kind of anti-social behavior that you and others complain about. The "spoiled brats" are the entitled wankers vaping on the subway, playing loud music, etc.
Rank individualism also means that the taxpayer can't be arsed to pay for useful things like public mental health care.
This being said, I've ridden the subways and commuter rail in NYC since I was about 15 (on my own) and I've never been in a fight.
Re: (Score:1)
That's my point ... rank individualism and lack of concern about others breeds the kind of anti-social behavior that you and others complain about.
You think individualism contributes to the kind of criminality and mental illness that caused the majority of altercations I saw or were a part of on the light rail? It sounds like you are confusing individualism with selfishness and/or illness. However, I now suspect you of being a Marxist. They cannot tell the difference and believe individualism is illness and selfishness.
Rank individualism also means that the taxpayer can't be arsed to pay for useful things like public mental health care.
You're wrong. It's paid for somewhat by taxpayers and contributed also by foreigners who we borrow money from. The "heath care" tak
Re: (Score:2)
Works fine if you have a public that's not filled with selfish spoiled brats like in the US ... extreme individualist "culture" does have its downsides.
Homie, you’re like one additional knee jerk anti-American comment away from my foes list. You think it’s about American “individualistic” culture? Have you fucking ridden a bus in Latin America? India? I have. I’m a neurodivergent introvert. It was Hell On Earth. I like quiet. I like personal space. You can count on one hand how many countries I’ve felt at ease in on public transit. Fun fact, America ain’t one of them but, it is far from the worst. The a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The only problem with public transportation is the public. ;-)
Only if you live in the USA. Where I live, the vast majority of people are perfectly pleasant. Some are quite interesting to have a chat with.
Re: (Score:1)
You could try Japan, or Bangkok or Chiang Mai, too.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
No idea what that is supposed to mean.
They do not have a big network, like Germany.
The old trains are oki in the sense of nostalgia, e.g. from Bangkok to Ayutthaya.
The modern trains are slower than in Germany but much more comfortable.
Re: (Score:3)
As far as the 150-300% longer thing, I live in NYC.
I can take a train to DC in 3h15 or 3h30, which is about 30-60 min shorter than driving, and the same time as flying (the train doesn't taxi, wait for a gate, have security checks, etc, and you can board 5 min before departure).
This is a SLOW train (top speed 125mph, average 70 mph). Imagine if we could still build things in the US, and we had higher-speed trains like China, Germany, France, even fuckin' Poland!
Re: (Score:2)
Preaching to the choir on our inability to build things but the US is a tad bit bigger than Germany. The fastest train in the world ain’t gonna replace a 767 for transcontinental trips. It ain’t gonna replace them for partial transcontinental trips either, say, New York to Chicago, or LA to Seattle.
I’d love to see better train infrastructure where it makes sense, like the Portland to Seattle ticket I just bought. Cheaper on Alaska Air than Amtrak despite Amtrak getting taxpayer subsidie
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, I FUCKING *HATE* FLYING! Hate having my fucking heart jump into my mouth whenever the sewer pipe in the sky banks a bit, hate being cramped next to a tiny window ... on a train (lovely train), you can get up, go to the cafe car, get some food, look out the nice big windows.
Ah well, maybe Dumberica isn't for me. I'd probably be happier in a country that actually values ground transport and isn't so blinded by new shiny tech.
Re: (Score:2)
Pro-tip; Adding (lovely train) to every use of the word train doesn’t prove your point, it just makes it annoying to read your post.
The airport here is no further away than the train station, has better parking (train station has none), and TSA PreCheck is a thing you may have heard of. My airport security experience rarely lasts more than 2 minutes, involves a simple metal detector, and I can walk right up to the gate as they begin boarding.
I’ll also point out that the Alaska Air first clas
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You're seriously misinformed my friend. Have you ever actually been to the EU? You most certainly do have to show ID or otherwise prove your identity (TSA also has a process for lost/forgotten ID) to board an airplane. It is functionally the same as North America, with nearly identical security requirements, like the 100ml liquid limit, and nearly identical procedures, like removal of shoes, removal of laptop from carry-on bag, etc.
As far as "groping" goes, I've been "groped" more times (3) in the EU
Re: (Score:2)
That's incorrect. I flew out of French, Polish, Spanish, and Austrian airports this summer. I'm quite well informed, fuck you very much. Flying was very similar to travel in the US in the 1990s.
(1) No shoe removal at any of the airports. The only people who try to do so by default are Americans.
(2) No ID check to board a flight to Madrid in Wien, just an automated gate that scans the boarding pass before security. Warsaw used to have ID checks, but has gone to autogates for intra-EU flights. Passpor
Re: (Score:2)
As far as ID checks, I think CA at least USED to fingerprint you when applying for a license. Cops in Poland, Czech Rep, and Austria tend to be very hands-off (especially if you're a white guy). There's a theoretical requirement to carry ID, but the cops are much less likely to do "pretext stops" like they do in some US cities if you're out walking after 10 pm. It's not mandated in the US, but American cops are pig filth, and they'll haul you off to jail if you can't ID yourself.
The countries I mentioned
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Heh, you're full of shit [parisaeroport.fr]. Right there, in plain English, you are required to have ID. Don't refuse lucking out and not being asked for it with their inability to do so. In France, the authorities can demand your ID at any time, for any reason, and you are legally required to carry it on your person at all times. Not just in the airport. Try that "papers please, fuck you pig" nonsense in France and let me know how it works out for you.
Unlike in the US, EU rules don't prohibit pocketknives under 6 cm
Try again [airfrance.fr] my friend. Under prohibited items, "knives and all sharp
Re: (Score:2)
At no point has CA required a fingerprint for a driver's license. They do require them for certain occupational licenses but that's hardly unique. I like how you call out the racism you benefited from in the EU but pretend you get treated like shit in the US. If you're white, I'm pretty sure you aren't getting hit with many pretextual stops in the States either. My life counter for those is, let me do the math here, nothing into nothing, carry the nothin', oh yeah, zero.
If you are, it's sufficient to s
Re: (Score:2)
(1) ID checks are by airport/airline/country and they basically reserve the right to check. It's not a uniform policy like in the US post-9/11-freakout.
(2) EU regulations permit knives and scissors under 6cm ... again, enforcement is at discretion of airline and airport.
(3) "May be screened by body scanners." It's legal. It doesn't mean that it's commonly used.
Official policies allowing certain things have little to do with implementation in reality.
Re: (Score:2)
CA used to require fingerprinting, at least a thumbprint, in the 90s and 2010s, they may not today (possibly because of advances in biometric/facial matching to prevent people getting duplicate licenses).
It's more how I feel when I'm in the EU vs in the US ... US feels like a low-trust society where you're constantly treated as a bit of a suspect. Metal detectors, bag checks in many more semi-public places, less so in Eastern/Central Europe.
Also, not as many petty tickets/fines. No one really cares if you
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Keep moving those goalposts homie. Lemme know when you actually do emigrate since it sucks so bad here. Will you be renouncing your US Citizenship or simply adding a second First World Passport to your collection? I feel your pain, child of the First World. I thought my friend who crossed the Darién Gap had it rough, she was fleeing from war and literal rape gangs. Wait until I tell her I've met a true victim fleeing from TSA and our lack of high speed rail infrastructure. Do you have any sage wo
Re: (Score:2)
If you're saying that I shouldn't move because some people have it rougher than me (and are trying to shame me for it), I'm not ashamed. Yeah, I'm an entitled first-world person. I own it and I'm fine with it.
You also fail to understand how precarious the US is right now ... we have no explicit privacy rights under the law, we have a first-rate (semi-private) mass surveillance infrastructure, we have certain groups of citizens armed to the teeth, and we've recently come extremely close to a coup.
Re: (Score:2)
No one really cares if you have a beer outside if you're not raising a ruckus
Nobody cares about that in the US either dude. I got into that habit living in New Orleans and have yet to be called on it outside of the Big Easy. If I ever am, I plan to just use that as the excuse and plead ignorance.
park benches don't have those stupid divider bars
I don't even know what the hell you're saying here? There's no "stupid divider bar" on park benches in my current city or any city I can recall calling home.
It's more how I feel when I'm in the EU vs in the US
I could actually give you that one if you were a bit less "America sucks" about it. I find a peace in the Finnish countryside I'v
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I’m not opening the can of worms that is American gun politics. Suffice it to say, the metal detector to get into the Seahawks game is not exclusively or even primarily about guns. American laws make it easy to sue for injuries real and imagined, a lot of our security theater has to do with that, and that metal detector serves the duel purpose (from the venue’s perspective) of forcing you to buy your booze and concessions from the venue.
You may find the EU better in this regard, it probably i
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be tru (Score:2)
All of those things are true. I can’t dispute them. I’ll still caution you to be weary of the greener grass on the other side of foe fence. Right wing populism was a thing in the EU well before before the Orange Asshat made it mainstream in the US. It was triggered for the same reasons (trade policy leaving people behind + resentment of immigration) over there as here.
Poland was one of the countries you mentioned, have you paid any attention at all to their democratic backsliding? So far,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And there's the CO2 bit that planes get to fully pollute without paying for it...as we have dozens of Billion dollar disasters every year now.
Re: (Score:2)
Amtrak ain’t paying for their CO2 emissions either. I will concede they’re less. I would happily take the train despite all the many drawbacks if they hadn’t fouled up their pricing structure. It should cost less than flying. It doesn’t. Flying is unquestionably the better experience so why would I pay more for less?
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:3)
the actual costs aren't passed on for airline travel in tix prices. Cities build airports and charge us via taxes. Amtrak has to rent access to 97% of the private rail lines it uses.
and rail can easily be electrified (as it is in many places). Air travel simply can't be made green currently. See those billions of dollars spent each year on climate fueled disasters
Re: (Score:2)
Cramped, groped and scanned isn't 'better'
I'm sorry you're so broke you can't afford the $15.60 a year it costs to get PreCheck. I guess it goes without saying you've never flown First Class. ;-)
My lament here, if you care to parse it, isn't that Amtrak sucks, although they do. My lament is the cost of a business class seat for Portland to Seattle is frequently more than the cost of a First Class ticket on Alaska Air for the same route. If you've experienced those two things, you'll concede the First Class Alaska experience is objectively bet
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
There’s a difference between tax dollars paying for the road to the airport/train station, or the airport/train station itself, and annual taxpayer "contributions" to Amtrak to keep them afloat. The airlines have certainly gotten bailouts, bailouts that I’ve opposed in the moment, but no airline gets an annual check from the treasury to keep them solvent.
Re: (Score:2)
Here in the EU, when you want to go longer distances, there are often sleeper trains so you can arrive the following morning relaxed, rested, & breakfasted. No TSA but you might have to pass your luggage through a metal detector just before you board the train. And trains leave from the city centre or close to it, easily reached by public transport so you don't have to worry about or pay for parking. And trains are ser
Re: (Score:2)
I have never been robbed or groped by TSA. I also have PreCheck, so, my experience is to walk through a metal detector after waiting less than five minutes in line.
You’re doing flying wrong if you are killing as much time at the airport as you say. I get to the airport 45 minutes before my flight, drop my bags, walk through security, and generally hit the gate right as boarding begins. In many medium sized American cities you don’t need PreCheck to do that, though, I wouldn’t recommen
Re: (Score:1)
Well,
I use internet and its predecessors since roughly 1987.
Makes me wonder if for more younger people the internet makes them dumber, or if it just so that you see, hear more from dumb people.
No one expects the US to build a high speed passenger railway system that connects the east with the west coast. Ofc, you could give Elon a chance and let him build his underground Vacuum Tubes. Until then, I guess flight is fully oki. The CO2 contributions by flight are completely exaggerated. Worldwide it is perhaps
Re: (Score:1)
Re: Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Zen Fascists will control you, 100% natural. You will jog for the master race, and always wear the happy face...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know if it qualifies as "good" or not, but whenever I've ridden public transportation to or in Chicago it's been crowded, except in the middle of the night and during Covid.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yes... take something with the utility of a helicopter, cripple its range and endurance, increase the time taken to refuel by an order of magnitude, eliminate the safety element of autorotation in the event of power failure and then remove the pilot so that (like the 737 Max 8) it becomes reliant on buggy computer code -- then stuff it with 4 or 5 delicate human beings.
This sounds like a recipe for disaster.
We've had VTOL air taxis for decades, they're called helicopters and they are generally reliable a
Re: (Score:1)
Oh yes... take something with the utility of a helicopter, cripple its range and endurance, increase the time taken to refuel by an order of magnitude, eliminate the safety element of autorotation in the event of power failure and then remove the pilot so that (like the 737 Max 8) it becomes reliant on buggy computer code
Don't get me wrong, I'm just wishing for some way to get downtown without a long slog or high expense. However, the points you make are completely valid. Adding "more computer" to cars seemed to have reached a point of diminishing returns in the late 1990's. Now, multiple ECUs and a huge CAN network isn't paying off except for the dealer's service center. It seems to be a great way to get charged $5600 for a tail light [thedrive.com] and enable a bunch of nanny-features.
The refueling issue is valid. However, that's so
No They Won't (Score:4, Insightful)
This intent of this announcement is to act as a solicitation to (very dumb) investors.
This company will not construct hundreds of these 6-propellor aircraft that will be used as "flying taxis". We're not going to suddenly authorize a ton of helicopter pads in areas previously not zoned for aircraft take-off and landing. AT BEST these will be used as novelty aircraft for chartered flights between pre-existing airports.
My Prediction: If enough people throw their cash at this money pit, the start-up and their earliest investors will pay themselves well and the company in question will make some level of progress into further testing their aircraft design (acting as though there's an actual market for this service). When the next financial or tech tremor hits (recession, natural disaster, resource shortage, etc.), they'll meekly announce that the company is shuttering due to whatever external force and never acknowledge that they don't have a chance of unseating Cessna or Piper in safety, affordability, ease of use, or repairability.
Re: (Score:2)
They can probably sell a bunch of multicopters to people who already have helicopters. They could easily be a lot cheaper and safer to operate. There are enough places you can fly a helicopter now that being limited to those places isn't a serious problem. All that guff about flying from parking structures is worthless, and maybe this is a dumb design or something, but e-VTOL is probably a large part of the future of aviation. One of the big benefits of multicopters is that they are extremely resistant to g
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There are some places where people will buy these by the dozen. For example, if NYC approves these, you will see many, many celebrities and VIPs using these so they can get from their penthouse apartment in NYC to their place in the Hamptons... a trip that has so much traffic, people are getting surgery [insider.com] so they can hold it in during the trip to their properties. Similar with the Florida Keys, and West coast cities. Even cities like Austin would probably wind up with these, as it is an alternative to a go [kxan.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
The existing helicopters require a pilot. Sure, you probably could automate them away, but existing helicopters still have one, which might be the owner if he has a license.
They are kind of complicated to fly, as the pilot basically manually controls each piece or hardware aka tilt of the rotor, pitch of the rotor blades speed of the rotor and speed of the tail rotor, which in general requires all 4 limbs.
In those new octocopters the pilot is not controlling the hardware in a similar way, but the system fir
Re: (Score:2)
This intent of this announcement is to act as a solicitation to (very dumb) investors.
This company will not construct hundreds of these 6-propellor aircraft that will be used as "flying taxis". We're not going to suddenly authorize a ton of helicopter pads in areas previously not zoned for aircraft take-off and landing. AT BEST these will be used as novelty aircraft for chartered flights between pre-existing airports.
My Prediction: If enough people throw their cash at this money pit, the start-up and their earliest investors will pay themselves well and the company in question will make some level of progress into further testing their aircraft design (acting as though there's an actual market for this service). When the next financial or tech tremor hits (recession, natural disaster, resource shortage, etc.), they'll meekly announce that the company is shuttering due to whatever external force and never acknowledge that they don't have a chance of unseating Cessna or Piper in safety, affordability, ease of use, or repairability.
This. Even between places where there are such infrastructure like major cities (I.E. London, New York, LA) where the rich can afford to charter helicopters is this kind of thing being asked for. They're already served by traditional helicopters and there aren't really any calls for cheaper services (as taking a chopper from Farnborough airport to London is really about avoiding the Hoi Polloi from your private jet to your limousine).
Your point about safety is a very good one, however we're not talking
How expensive? (Score:3)
Taxis? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
If these are flying taxis then we've been making flying taxis since1940. Wake me up when the government unclenches its ass about ultra safe everything enough for helicopters to actually act as taxis for anyone but the ultra rich.
I sincerely hope the government never "unclenches its ass" enough to allow droves of these things in the air above major population centres. The fact that they have multiple rotors is some comfort. But having all those rotors powered by one battery - one battery whose failure could cause the craft to fall out of the sky - really bothers me.
Yes, we have choppers in the air now - but we don't have literally hundreds of them flying all day every day over any given city. AFAIC allowing so many of these things i
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
High-velocity blender blades and populated areas mix ... poorly.
Sounds as though they mix ... well. If you want a blended population, that is.
Good idea (Score:1)
They should weld hard points on to these things and gift all of them to Ukraine.
Flying taxis do not work (Score:3, Insightful)
Aircraft have very different constraints than cars. They are an order of magnitude harder to fly than cars are to drive. Those that qualify want and should get paid significant sums of money, restricting the supply to the top 5% of the population, minimum.
Worse, flying vehicles have to be inspected every 100 hours of flight time, most are done every 25 hours. 100 hours is every 2 weeks, 25 is twice a week.
Lots more aircraft in/around a populated area = terrorist threat. How many cities/towns will OK that?
Moreover, the time it takes to get to/from a heliport makes it very unlikely to save time - not unless they build a ton new heliports.
Not going to happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Meanwhile in Ohio (Score:2)
The world is burning, everyone is investing in green. We're all pointing to China / India, and...
Meanwhile in Ohio: Have a look at this, we've invented the least efficient and most CO2 intensive form of personal transportation. Invest in us!
transport a pilot and four passengers (Score:2)
Physics (Score:2)
We should make more VCs take intro college physics. Maybe then they'd understand why this won't ever work out. That's assuming they've already take a basic economics course.
And who's going to allow them? (Score:2)
What cities will approve them? You think *you* want one taking off from the curb in front of where you're parked?
And then there's the question of how expensive will they be?
Oh Whee (Score:2)
The first half dozen to crash will put and end to this.
Reduces Cost for Urban VTOL, but Other Challenges (Score:2)
I'm sure they are going to just (Score:2)
Stupid (Score:1)