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Transportation

Hundreds of Flying Taxis To Be Made In Ohio (apnews.com) 98

Posted by BeauHD from the birthplace-of-aviation dept.
Under an agreement announced Monday, Joby Aviation will build hundreds of electric vertical takeoff and landing (eVTOL) aircraft in the same Ohio river valley where the Wright brothers pioneered human flight. The Associated Press reports: Joby's decision to locate its first scaled manufacturing facility at a 140-acre (57-hectare) site at Dayton International Airport delivers on two decades of groundwork laid by the state's leaders, Republican Lt. Gov. Jon Husted said. Importantly, the site is near Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and the headquarters of the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratories. The Wright brothers, Orville and Wilbur, lived and worked in Dayton. In 1910, they opened the first U.S. airplane factory there. To connect the historical dots, Joby's formal announcement Monday took place at Orville Wright's home, Hawthorn Hill, and concluded with a ceremonial flypast of a replica of the Wright Model B Flyer.

Joby's production aircraft is designed to transport a pilot and four passengers at speeds of up to 200 miles (321.87 kilometers) per hour, with a maximum range of 100 miles (160.93 kilometers). Its quiet noise profile is barely audible against the backdrop of most cities, the company said. The plan is to place them in aerial ridesharing networks beginning in 2025. The $500 million project is supported by up to $325 million in incentives from the state of Ohio, its JobsOhio economic development office and local government. With the funds, Joby plans to build an Ohio facility capable of delivering up to 500 aircraft a year and creating 2,000 jobs. The U.S. Department of Energy has invited Joby to apply for a loan to support development of the facility as a clean energy project.
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Hundreds of Flying Taxis To Be Made In Ohio More

Hundreds of Flying Taxis To Be Made In Ohio

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  • Imagine how awesome those things could be if the details work out. That's shared-transportation I'd definitely use if the price was right. Throw your little folding scooter/inline-skates/folding-bike in your backpack and go from the landing pad a mile or two to your downtown destination via kicks... Ahh yeah, much better than stressing with downtown driving and paying to park.

    • Archer has a sexier looking aircraft.

    • Re:Those things look so bad ass. Please be true. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by bjwest ( 14070 ) on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:59PM (#63859048)

      Throw your little folding scooter/inline-skates/folding-bike in your backpack and go from the landing pad a mile or two to your downtown destination via kicks... Ahh yeah, much better than stressing with downtown driving and paying to park.

      Most Americans will circle the parking lot several times to get a parking spot ten feet closer to the door, rather than walk that extra ten feet, you really think they'll take a taxi a mile or so from their destination then hoof it "on foot" via a scooter or inline skates?

      What large cities like San Francisco, Chicago, New York and the like need to do is outlaw personal vehicles in the city and invest in some good public transportation. NY has the subway system, so pretty much all they have to do is get rid of the personal vehicles, and maybe up the bus system.

      • Good public transportation is always empty in Chicago, and it is always a city bus clogging up streets for my Uber.

        Public transportation, even if on time, takes 150-300% longer than a car.

        It keeps people poor by allowing them to live 90 minutes each way from work instead of making their bosses have to pay them better to afford to live closer.

        • I'd rather be poor with trains than be rich and own 10 self-driving flying Teslas. And yeah, Americants seem to be allergic to public transportation ... I guess I'll have to live in Europe or NYC to be happy.

          • That is because it makes a 20 min drive into a 3 hour ride on a public toilet

            • Blah blah blah! "Public toilet." Transit dangerous, dirty, hurrrrrr durrr! The problem is your city/country, not transit itself. In civilized cities and countries, trains (lovely trains!) work just fine. Shut the fuck up and don't be such a coward.

            • Public transport is usually faster than driving where I live. Sold my car for that reason. It was literally useless. When you took parking into account driving to and from work took twice as long as the train

          • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

            by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @12:15AM (#63859342)
            Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • Works fine if you have a public that's not filled with selfish spoiled brats like in the US ... extreme individualist "culture" does have its downsides.
              • Agreed.
              • There are the following on the light rail system in my city: loud violent crazy people, people who smell so bad you can't be in the same train car without puking, groups of rowdy teenagers who like to shove folks, straight up thieves, and gangbangers constantly menacing everyone. Now, you tell me, is it "extreme individualist culture" that keeps folks off the public transportation, or is it the fact that we cannot bring ourselves to clean up the environment and enforce some rules around behavior and hygiene

                • That's my point ... rank individualism and lack of concern about others breeds the kind of anti-social behavior that you and others complain about. The "spoiled brats" are the entitled wankers vaping on the subway, playing loud music, etc.

                  Rank individualism also means that the taxpayer can't be arsed to pay for useful things like public mental health care.

                  This being said, I've ridden the subways and commuter rail in NYC since I was about 15 (on my own) and I've never been in a fight.

                  • That's my point ... rank individualism and lack of concern about others breeds the kind of anti-social behavior that you and others complain about.

                    You think individualism contributes to the kind of criminality and mental illness that caused the majority of altercations I saw or were a part of on the light rail? It sounds like you are confusing individualism with selfishness and/or illness. However, I now suspect you of being a Marxist. They cannot tell the difference and believe individualism is illness and selfishness.

                    Rank individualism also means that the taxpayer can't be arsed to pay for useful things like public mental health care.

                    You're wrong. It's paid for somewhat by taxpayers and contributed also by foreigners who we borrow money from. The "heath care" tak

              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • I'm also neurodivergent and I find a loud train packed with people to be a gentle stim ... the NYC subway great for that.
              • Found the car hater.
                • That I am. I own it. If I were offered 10 new self-driving Teslas or a job in a country with good trains, I'd choose the latter.

            • The only problem with public transportation is the public. ;-)

              Only if you live in the USA. Where I live, the vast majority of people are perfectly pleasant. Some are quite interesting to have a chat with.

          • You could try Japan, or Bangkok or Chiang Mai, too.

            • I'm a train stan and Thailand's intercity trains suck to the point of non-existence.

              • No idea what that is supposed to mean.
                They do not have a big network, like Germany.

                The old trains are oki in the sense of nostalgia, e.g. from Bangkok to Ayutthaya.

                The modern trains are slower than in Germany but much more comfortable.

        • As far as the 150-300% longer thing, I live in NYC.

          I can take a train to DC in 3h15 or 3h30, which is about 30-60 min shorter than driving, and the same time as flying (the train doesn't taxi, wait for a gate, have security checks, etc, and you can board 5 min before departure).

          This is a SLOW train (top speed 125mph, average 70 mph). Imagine if we could still build things in the US, and we had higher-speed trains like China, Germany, France, even fuckin' Poland!

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • 1hr flight in a shitpipe in the sky = 1.5 hr getting to the scareport, dealing with TSA pigs groping you, checking your "papers please" and generally violating your privacy, 0.5 hr waiting for takeoff, 1 hr in the air, 1 hr at the other end. Whereas, a train (lovely train) can be boarded 5 min before departure without 90% of that dumbfuckery.

              • Also, I FUCKING *HATE* FLYING! Hate having my fucking heart jump into my mouth whenever the sewer pipe in the sky banks a bit, hate being cramped next to a tiny window ... on a train (lovely train), you can get up, go to the cafe car, get some food, look out the nice big windows.

                Ah well, maybe Dumberica isn't for me. I'd probably be happier in a country that actually values ground transport and isn't so blinded by new shiny tech.

              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • I shouldn't need to pay extra and have someone violate my privacy (background check, etc) just to be treated like a human while flying. You can fly within the EU, often not even show ID "PAPERS PLEASE!", and get the TSA Pre-check experience. Yet planes aren't falling from the sky. The sooner we forget, the better.
                  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

                    • That's incorrect. I flew out of French, Polish, Spanish, and Austrian airports this summer. I'm quite well informed, fuck you very much. Flying was very similar to travel in the US in the 1990s.

                      (1) No shoe removal at any of the airports. The only people who try to do so by default are Americans.

                      (2) No ID check to board a flight to Madrid in Wien, just an automated gate that scans the boarding pass before security. Warsaw used to have ID checks, but has gone to autogates for intra-EU flights. Passpor

                    • As far as ID checks, I think CA at least USED to fingerprint you when applying for a license. Cops in Poland, Czech Rep, and Austria tend to be very hands-off (especially if you're a white guy). There's a theoretical requirement to carry ID, but the cops are much less likely to do "pretext stops" like they do in some US cities if you're out walking after 10 pm. It's not mandated in the US, but American cops are pig filth, and they'll haul you off to jail if you can't ID yourself.

                      The countries I mentioned

                    • I will also add that Evolv scanners/metal detectors/some jobsworth rooting through your bag in public accomodations is much more rare in East/Central Europe than in the US. If you go to many museums or concert venues in NYC or DC, you get herded through some kind of "Smart Scanner." Much less common in Poland and Austria. Downside of Poland is of course abortion laws, but the ruling party may not last long in power after October of this year, so who knows?
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

                    • (1) ID checks are by airport/airline/country and they basically reserve the right to check. It's not a uniform policy like in the US post-9/11-freakout.

                      (2) EU regulations permit knives and scissors under 6cm ... again, enforcement is at discretion of airline and airport.

                      (3) "May be screened by body scanners." It's legal. It doesn't mean that it's commonly used.

                      Official policies allowing certain things have little to do with implementation in reality.

                    • CA used to require fingerprinting, at least a thumbprint, in the 90s and 2010s, they may not today (possibly because of advances in biometric/facial matching to prevent people getting duplicate licenses).

                      It's more how I feel when I'm in the EU vs in the US ... US feels like a low-trust society where you're constantly treated as a bit of a suspect. Metal detectors, bag checks in many more semi-public places, less so in Eastern/Central Europe.

                      Also, not as many petty tickets/fines. No one really cares if you

                    • As far as cops, around 10 years ago, I literally got carded/questioned for being "suspicious" because I walked two blocks from my hotel near LAX Airport (Redondo Beach) to a pharmacy instead of driving.
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

                    • If you're saying that I shouldn't move because some people have it rougher than me (and are trying to shame me for it), I'm not ashamed. Yeah, I'm an entitled first-world person. I own it and I'm fine with it.

                      You also fail to understand how precarious the US is right now ... we have no explicit privacy rights under the law, we have a first-rate (semi-private) mass surveillance infrastructure, we have certain groups of citizens armed to the teeth, and we've recently come extremely close to a coup.

                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • Finland is different than countries formerly affected by Communism and Fascism... in the latter, there's a much stronger taboo regarding any appearance of invading people's privacy. At the same time, guns aren't illegal, but much harder to buy, so there isn't that nagging fear of gin crime that drives a lot of surveillance in the US.
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • I'm aware ... I'm also aware that the authoritarians there are less similar to US authoritarians. GOP in the US is an austerity party while populist parties in Europe are often anti-austerity ... PiS actually supports solar subsidies, is building out higher-speed rail (and highways), wants to centralize aviation in Poland at one major airport with most local flights replaced by rail. The major policy horror is abortion law, but the public may be reaching the limit of their tolerance there. (Also, it's of
                    • I will also add that PiS supports modern, clean, safe nuclear energy (plans to break ground on multiple reactors before 2030). That's actually refreshing compared to the anti-nuclear cowardice of ruling parties in other European countries. (Though Finland seems to be another exception with Olkiluoto III - kudos and respect!)
            • Plane is massively subsidized so it's not exactly a fair comparison.

              And there's the CO2 bit that planes get to fully pollute without paying for it...as we have dozens of Billion dollar disasters every year now.
            • Ah, so you like being disrespected, degraded, & occasionally robbed by the TSA?

              Here in the EU, when you want to go longer distances, there are often sleeper trains so you can arrive the following morning relaxed, rested, & breakfasted. No TSA but you might have to pass your luggage through a metal detector just before you board the train. And trains leave from the city centre or close to it, easily reached by public transport so you don't have to worry about or pay for parking. And trains are ser

            • Well,
              I use internet and its predecessors since roughly 1987.
              Makes me wonder if for more younger people the internet makes them dumber, or if it just so that you see, hear more from dumb people.

              No one expects the US to build a high speed passenger railway system that connects the east with the west coast. Ofc, you could give Elon a chance and let him build his underground Vacuum Tubes. Until then, I guess flight is fully oki. The CO2 contributions by flight are completely exaggerated. Worldwide it is perhaps

          • That's from station to station. Now list from point to point. You'll have to get two taxis, or spend half an hour to 40 minutes walking. And that's for two big cities with a lot of rail commuters and trains.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jbengt ( 874751 )

          Good public transportation is always empty in Chicago . . .

          I don't know if it qualifies as "good" or not, but whenever I've ridden public transportation to or in Chicago it's been crowded, except in the middle of the night and during Covid.

    • I'd rather take a train (lovely train). Also, I'd rather not live in a city with thousands of those stankin' things buzzing over my head at all hours. But Americans have some kind of allergy to trains, trams, and buses so we're stuck with technonsense.

    • Oh yes... take something with the utility of a helicopter, cripple its range and endurance, increase the time taken to refuel by an order of magnitude, eliminate the safety element of autorotation in the event of power failure and then remove the pilot so that (like the 737 Max 8) it becomes reliant on buggy computer code -- then stuff it with 4 or 5 delicate human beings.

      This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

      We've had VTOL air taxis for decades, they're called helicopters and they are generally reliable a

      • Oh yes... take something with the utility of a helicopter, cripple its range and endurance, increase the time taken to refuel by an order of magnitude, eliminate the safety element of autorotation in the event of power failure and then remove the pilot so that (like the 737 Max 8) it becomes reliant on buggy computer code

        Don't get me wrong, I'm just wishing for some way to get downtown without a long slog or high expense. However, the points you make are completely valid. Adding "more computer" to cars seemed to have reached a point of diminishing returns in the late 1990's. Now, multiple ECUs and a huge CAN network isn't paying off except for the dealer's service center. It seems to be a great way to get charged $5600 for a tail light [thedrive.com] and enable a bunch of nanny-features.

        The refueling issue is valid. However, that's so

  • No They Won't (Score:4, Insightful)

    by eepok ( 545733 ) on Monday September 18, 2023 @06:55PM (#63859034) Homepage

    This intent of this announcement is to act as a solicitation to (very dumb) investors.

    This company will not construct hundreds of these 6-propellor aircraft that will be used as "flying taxis". We're not going to suddenly authorize a ton of helicopter pads in areas previously not zoned for aircraft take-off and landing. AT BEST these will be used as novelty aircraft for chartered flights between pre-existing airports.

    My Prediction: If enough people throw their cash at this money pit, the start-up and their earliest investors will pay themselves well and the company in question will make some level of progress into further testing their aircraft design (acting as though there's an actual market for this service). When the next financial or tech tremor hits (recession, natural disaster, resource shortage, etc.), they'll meekly announce that the company is shuttering due to whatever external force and never acknowledge that they don't have a chance of unseating Cessna or Piper in safety, affordability, ease of use, or repairability.

    • They can probably sell a bunch of multicopters to people who already have helicopters. They could easily be a lot cheaper and safer to operate. There are enough places you can fly a helicopter now that being limited to those places isn't a serious problem. All that guff about flying from parking structures is worthless, and maybe this is a dumb design or something, but e-VTOL is probably a large part of the future of aviation. One of the big benefits of multicopters is that they are extremely resistant to g

      • None of the promo videos (with nice music cut in) play the sound of those fucking things taking off. LOUD! Imagine dozens of them droning above your city -- just awful. The stinking touron helicopters that infest NYC are bad enough.

    • There are some places where people will buy these by the dozen. For example, if NYC approves these, you will see many, many celebrities and VIPs using these so they can get from their penthouse apartment in NYC to their place in the Hamptons... a trip that has so much traffic, people are getting surgery [insider.com] so they can hold it in during the trip to their properties. Similar with the Florida Keys, and West coast cities. Even cities like Austin would probably wind up with these, as it is an alternative to a go [kxan.com]

      • Ironically, there's a perfectly good trains (lovely train!) that runs to the Hamptons. But the United Stinks has no sense of common good, so the tracks will never be improved for higher speeds and electrified. We seem to have lost the ability to do collective public works projects 50+ years ago, so we're stuck with flying gadgetbahns. I can't wait to move to a country that still cares about the common good.
    • Spot on! Most electric aircraft makers have gone bankrupt already or are on the verge. Few of the founders know a thing about aerodynamics and the issues facing such aircraft. And non of the designs are that innovative, just huge multicopters that will chew up birds.
    • They're replacements/competition for helicopters. The question is can they replace/compete with enough helicopters on viable routes to make them commercially viable?

      • The existing helicopters require a pilot. Sure, you probably could automate them away, but existing helicopters still have one, which might be the owner if he has a license.
        They are kind of complicated to fly, as the pilot basically manually controls each piece or hardware aka tilt of the rotor, pitch of the rotor blades speed of the rotor and speed of the tail rotor, which in general requires all 4 limbs.

        In those new octocopters the pilot is not controlling the hardware in a similar way, but the system fir

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      This intent of this announcement is to act as a solicitation to (very dumb) investors.

      This company will not construct hundreds of these 6-propellor aircraft that will be used as "flying taxis". We're not going to suddenly authorize a ton of helicopter pads in areas previously not zoned for aircraft take-off and landing. AT BEST these will be used as novelty aircraft for chartered flights between pre-existing airports.

      My Prediction: If enough people throw their cash at this money pit, the start-up and their earliest investors will pay themselves well and the company in question will make some level of progress into further testing their aircraft design (acting as though there's an actual market for this service). When the next financial or tech tremor hits (recession, natural disaster, resource shortage, etc.), they'll meekly announce that the company is shuttering due to whatever external force and never acknowledge that they don't have a chance of unseating Cessna or Piper in safety, affordability, ease of use, or repairability.

      This. Even between places where there are such infrastructure like major cities (I.E. London, New York, LA) where the rich can afford to charter helicopters is this kind of thing being asked for. They're already served by traditional helicopters and there aren't really any calls for cheaper services (as taking a chopper from Farnborough airport to London is really about avoiding the Hoi Polloi from your private jet to your limousine).

      Your point about safety is a very good one, however we're not talking

  • How expensive? (Score:3)

    by Retired Chemist ( 5039029 ) on Monday September 18, 2023 @07:35PM (#63859064)
    You can do this now with a helicopter, if you've got the money. Will this be significantly enough cheaper to be of any value to normal people? I can see that it might be useful in areas like LA, where commuting by car is a disaster, but the air traffic control issues are significant.
  • If these are flying taxis then we've been making flying taxis since1940. Wake me up when the government unclenches its ass about ultra safe everything enough for helicopters to actually act as taxis for anyone but the ultra rich.

    • If these are flying taxis then we've been making flying taxis since1940. Wake me up when the government unclenches its ass about ultra safe everything enough for helicopters to actually act as taxis for anyone but the ultra rich.

      I sincerely hope the government never "unclenches its ass" enough to allow droves of these things in the air above major population centres. The fact that they have multiple rotors is some comfort. But having all those rotors powered by one battery - one battery whose failure could cause the craft to fall out of the sky - really bothers me.

      Yes, we have choppers in the air now - but we don't have literally hundreds of them flying all day every day over any given city. AFAIC allowing so many of these things i

      • In the 1970s, Pan Am used to run a helicopter taxi service to JFK from the Pan Am (now Metlife) building in NYC. Great until the landing gear collapsed, the thing tipped over, and one of the rotor blades hit a roof structure. The fragments killed several people on the roof, then fell to the ground, beheading a pedestrian walking her dog. High-velocity blender blades and populated areas mix ... poorly.

        • High-velocity blender blades and populated areas mix ... poorly.

          Sounds as though they mix ... well. If you want a blended population, that is.

  • Good idea (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    They should weld hard points on to these things and gift all of them to Ukraine.

  • Flying taxis do not work (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:08PM (#63859194) Homepage

    Aircraft have very different constraints than cars. They are an order of magnitude harder to fly than cars are to drive. Those that qualify want and should get paid significant sums of money, restricting the supply to the top 5% of the population, minimum.

    Worse, flying vehicles have to be inspected every 100 hours of flight time, most are done every 25 hours. 100 hours is every 2 weeks, 25 is twice a week.

    Lots more aircraft in/around a populated area = terrorist threat. How many cities/towns will OK that?

    Moreover, the time it takes to get to/from a heliport makes it very unlikely to save time - not unless they build a ton new heliports.

    Not going to happen.

  • The world is burning, everyone is investing in green. We're all pointing to China / India, and...
    Meanwhile in Ohio: Have a look at this, we've invented the least efficient and most CO2 intensive form of personal transportation. Invest in us!

  • Still a lot of what ifs.... Cost per aircraft, cost per ride, etc. They will need approval to build landing sites or use pre-existing helicopter pads if permissions granted. Company are supported by partnerships with Toyota, Delta Air Lines, Intel and UberC so serious $$ behind it. Wait and see....zzzzzzz.

  • We should make more VCs take intro college physics. Maybe then they'd understand why this won't ever work out. That's assuming they've already take a basic economics course.

  • What cities will approve them? You think *you* want one taking off from the curb in front of where you're parked?

    And then there's the question of how expensive will they be?

  • The first half dozen to crash will put and end to this.

  • One of the problems is that these aircraft still require pilots, and those pilots are one of the most expensive and limited resources when it comes to growing aircraft fleets. It's going to heavily constrain the market growth. In theory, autonomy could break this limitation by removing the pilot, but no one has yet successfully certified autonomous passenger carrying aircraft in civil airspace (and it's not going to happen for years).
  • fly out the factory - until some drunk totals a god fearing christian totals an entire family in a doi,
  • One definition of a helicopter is "A random collection of parts flying in loose formation". This looks worse. I'd not want to get in one. This is a stupid idea. (I'm a pilot)

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