Kia and Hyundai Blame TikTok and Instagram For Their Cars Getting Stolen (vice.com) 80
Aaron Gordon writes via Motherboard: Kia and Hyundai say it is not their fault that their cars are being stolen in an unprecedented theft surge made possible by the vehicles lacking a basic anti-theft technology virtually every other car has, according to a recent court filing. Instead, the companies point the finger at social media companies, such as TikTok and Instagram, where instructions on how to steal the cars have been widely shared and thieves show off their stolen cars.
The lawyers representing the two corporations -- which are owned by the same parent company -- are not subtle about this argument. The filing (PDF) -- in which the company is arguing a roughly $200 million class-action settlement ought to be approved by the court -- includes an entire section heading titled "Social Media and Intervening Third-Party Criminals Caused An Unprecedented Increase In Thefts." The lawyers argue in that section that because Kia and Hyundai vehicles have "not been the subject of significant theft" before the Kia Boys social media trend, social media and the people who steal the cars -- and not the car companies -- are to blame for the thefts. This argument is summarized in the section titled "Social Media Incited Unprecedented Rise In Thefts." The filing broadly reflects both the public communications strategy Kia and Hyundai have used throughout this crisis and some of the national news headlines that have covered the story,
The lawyers representing the two corporations -- which are owned by the same parent company -- are not subtle about this argument. The filing (PDF) -- in which the company is arguing a roughly $200 million class-action settlement ought to be approved by the court -- includes an entire section heading titled "Social Media and Intervening Third-Party Criminals Caused An Unprecedented Increase In Thefts." The lawyers argue in that section that because Kia and Hyundai vehicles have "not been the subject of significant theft" before the Kia Boys social media trend, social media and the people who steal the cars -- and not the car companies -- are to blame for the thefts. This argument is summarized in the section titled "Social Media Incited Unprecedented Rise In Thefts." The filing broadly reflects both the public communications strategy Kia and Hyundai have used throughout this crisis and some of the national news headlines that have covered the story,
Logically (Score:1)
They should blame roads and gasoline as well
What about lockpickinglaywer? (Score:4, Interesting)
No-one is suing lockpickinglawyer to blame for a massive rise in burglaries... perhaps its is really, really easy to steal a Kia/Hyundai, and not so trivial to pick a lock.
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Considering that the security of most homes can be bypassed by this sophisticated burglary tool known as a "rock", I’d say it’s more the threat of being shot by a homeowner that is the real deterrent to breaking and entering crimes.
Re: What about lockpickinglaywer? (Score:4, Insightful)
And thatâ(TM)s why the UK has a much higher burglary rate (3.09â) than the US (3.14â)
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LockPickingLawyer literally shows everyone how easy it is to open the door of your local supermarket, big box retailer, shopping mall [youtube.com]. I don't see anyone complaining to him. He even sells a neat toolkit on his website, (in Canada FWIW).
Wait until all those flash-mob thieves [yahoo.com] learn about this!
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Easy for a skilled locksmith or obsessed lawyer with years of practice with the right tools that are often illegal to be found carrying without a license.
IANAL but I don't think so. You're arguing something like every time the late, great Kevin Metnick simply handed out his business card [mitnicksecurity.com] and people walked around with it in their wallets, Kevin was breaking the law and his friends would suddenly require a license to carry. What would Kevin do, especially while he's out on probation?
Does LockPickingLawyer's website [covertinstruments.com] require a license of some sort? I don't think so.
Re: What about lockpickinglaywer? (Score:2)
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> with years of practice with the right tools that are often illegal
Here is a video how a lock is opened with a single hit with plastic hammer:
https://youtu.be/Ut1_yBDo1rE?t... [youtu.be]
I know what you are thinking. Plastic hammer might be illegal in some country. So here is another video how you can open a lock by slapping it with empty hand:
https://youtu.be/k3bS1oLEbIM?t... [youtu.be]
Let me know how many years that will take for you to learn.
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> I don't see anyone complaining to him.
He does get death threats and a lot of demands to take down videos. There is a reason why he doesn't show his face to the camera and why he checks received packages before taking them to home.
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and not so trivial to pick a lock.
Clearly you don't watch lockpickinglawyer. Many of the locks he bypasses are not trivial to pick, ... in that they don't require any picking at all to open. But that's beside the point. The question isn't whether or not to sue them, it's how social media (reads: marketing of a problem) can affect the rate that problem gets exploited.
There is an ice cream place near where I live that makes okay ice cream. Okay. It's not out of the ordinary. A very normal run of the mill gelateria. Yet recently someone made t
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No-one is suing lockpickinglawyer to blame for a massive rise in burglaries... perhaps its is really, really easy to steal a Kia/Hyundai, and not so trivial to pick a lock.
As a locksport practitioner (erm... fancy way of saying I can pick a lock) it's not that hard to pick a lock. When stealing a car the difficult bit is bypassing the immobiliser and other tech developed years ago so you couldn't just hotwire a car (which is also fantastically easy if you've a car that's old enough).
With Kia/Hyundai they built a system that bypassed the security. Suing tictok or whoever is really trying to shout at the gate until it closes after the horse has bolted, made it to another cou
I Blame Thieves. (Score:5, Insightful)
But you carry on with your bullshit.
Re:I Blame Thieves. (Score:5, Insightful)
I blame thieves too, but this is not a new problem in any way, and technology to prevent simply smashing out the lock cylinder to connect to the switch inside of the steering column is not a new solution. In the 1980s GM introduced VATS on the Corvette, and various VATS/Passkey systems followed throughout the years to require there to be some kind of electronic component in the key system.
These early antitheft systems didn't really stop professional car thieves for very long, there were usually insufficient numbers of combinations of electronics components to where a professional thief would simply equip themselves with what was needed to satisfy the electronic control, but they severely reduced problems with joyriding and other amateur attempts to steal cars. That's where Hyundai/Kia are right now, it's not that the cars are primarily targeted by professionals, they're targeted by amateurs who know that they can smash-out the lock and turn the switch in a low-skilled attack that young teenagers are capable of performing.
That's why Hyundai/Kia need to make changes. They simply need to make the cars not casually stealable any more than any other inexpensive cars are. Even if one wants to argue that social media plays a role in amplifying the problem, it's not like there haven't been problems with car theft long before social media became a thing, and this includes amateurs stealing cars for fun or for social standing among their peers.
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I drove a KIA for 13 years in San Antonio, Texas without one problem. Check the amount or car thefts there. Quite a few.
It is just more entitled mentally deficient people crying and avoiding responsibility for their own property. Shit happens. Welcome to planet motherfucker. Now suck it the fuck up and move the fuck along.
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It's only specific, mostly newer models that are subject to this issue. Older models don't seem to be susceptible, possibly because Hyundai/Kia actually decontented their vehicles over time.
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The hack only works on KIA/Hyundai models that use a physical key to start the car. If the car has a push-to-start button, the hack does not work.
On those cars affected, KIA and Hyundai will install a software upgrade that stops the car from starting if there is not a physical key in the ignition cylinder. They also put a red sticker on the window to signify that the software has been updated. It might take a while for the kids to realize that the updated cars are immune to the hack but it should get bet
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On those cars affected, KIA and Hyundai will install a software upgrade that stops the car from starting if there is not a physical key in the ignition cylinder.
This does raise the bar very slightly, which is all it will take to stop joyriders. But it can be defeated with a jumper wire.
Re: I Blame Thieves. (Score:2)
I grew up in a town that never locked their homes and rare locked their cars. I never once felt the urge to break into a car. That said, there are enough people unlike me for there to be problems when basic security measures are ineffective.
Re: I Blame Thieves. (Score:5, Insightful)
Thieves *are* at fault, but so are Kia and Hyundai. If you paid a builder to build you a house, and they installed a âoelockâ on the front door that could be turned with any tool, not just your key, you would be rightfully upset. Thereâ(TM)s a minimum of security thatâ(TM)s expected. Itâ(TM)s expected that a modern car should not be hotwireable. Kia and Hyundai are absolutely in the wrong here too.
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I can't read your reply. Get a better computer. This is Slashdot. Get with the program.
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Thieves *are* at fault, but so are Kia and Hyundai.
Kia and Hyundai are at the root of teh problem. Saying it's someone else's fault for showing how easy it is as disingenuous, IMHO.
If you paid a builder to build you a house, and they installed a lock on the front door that could be turned with any tool, not just your key, you would be rightfully upset.
You mean you expect a lock to survive a dent puller slide hammer?
Sad (Score:1)
shared blame (Score:2)
There must be a mother-in-law joke (Score:2)
in there somewhere.
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yes you are a victim but you are not blameless if you drunkenly walk down a dark alley with hundred dollar bills hanging out your pockets in a seedy part of town
Change "hundred dollar bills" to "low cut skirt" and the crime for from robbery to rape and you'd find a very unsympathetic audience for what you just said.
Security thrugh obscurity (Score:3)
When people did not know how easy it was to steal the car then they did not.... But know that everyone knows there is no security on the car, it's a prime target. Denial, deflecting, and hiding your head in the sand is a great way to avoid responsibility.
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BMW, Mercedes, Jag, and many others have the same problem-- no diligence on their security-- and these cars are stolen, too. This doesn't let any of the major car vendors off the hook, and it doesn't make Hyundai and Kia any less responsible for their easily hacked cars.
Staying one step of those with easily foundreceivers and reverse-engineering tools is going to be tough for all of them, and we as consumers will all pay for their lack of diligence in increasingly higher costs for key copies, auth tools for
Re: Security thrugh obscurity (Score:1)
Don't feel too bad - remember that at the end of the day, it's YOU (and your peers) who pay for everything in this world with your labour and by virtue of you being fish in a barrel from one generation to the next for those in-in-know to catch at their whim
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We knew that 'security through obscurity' was ineffective by the mid-'90s, why Kia/Hyundai thought that it's a viable defense is beyond me.
Re:Security thrugh obscurity (Score:4, Funny)
We knew that 'security through obscurity' was ineffective by the mid-'90s,
Security through obscurity actually works pretty well in automotive. It’s called a stickshift.
Not even joking. Plus more fun to drive.
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Plus more fun to drive.
Depends on what you call "driving." I went through Long Island, Queens, and Bronx to get home, today - in the midst of the storm and flooding in the metro NYC area - and if I had to push in a clutch every time we moved and stopped, I'd have burned my fkn vehicle in the middle of I-95. It was bad enough in an automatic.
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I learned to drive in NYC, on a stick, and currently contend with West Coast stop and go traffic five days a week. 25 years of driving and I’ve never burned out a clutch.
I saw the floods on the news. Hope you and yours make it through okay. I spent a few years in New Orleans and got way too good at driving through flooded streets.
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What burns out for me is my left knee. Older F150 with a stiff clutch.
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I learned to drive stick on some DOT surplus vintage 1980s Chevy pickup my step-Dad picked up at auction. That clutch almost required your arms pushing down on leg to actuate, lol, and there was so much throw between gears (three speed) that you basically needed a passenger to shift into reverse.
Sucked taking that on at 17 years old but it sure made all the sedans I've owned since a piece of cake.
Just hoping I have an EV before old age finishes trashing my knees. I'll surrender the stick for an EV but w
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I was driving one of those and my foot slipped off the clutch pedal, resulting in a bang so loud the passenger asked "what was that?" Fortunately it was in neutral at the time.
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Bumper to bumper is the *only* time I prefer an automatic.
Although, I'll grant that a manual would be kind of silly in a full size (30s to 90s) Cadillac, and that I don't grump about it when driving one. (Now an Oldsmobile, let alone Buick or chevy, would be another story!)
historical note: while cadillac engineers designed the Hydramatic transmission, the firs mass produced one, it was only put in Oldsmobile the first year (1940), so as to not tarnish the cadillac name if it blew up in their faces!
Within
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>Itâ(TM)s called a stickshift.
Nah. It's a "anti-millennial theft device" :)
Now if I can only find a model with an unsynchronized transmission; that would generally stop most boomers, too . . .
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why Kia/Hyundai thought that it's a viable defense is beyond me
Every generation has to learn the same stupid lessons.
Not either/or. (Score:2)
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No, this is one of rare cases where social media aren't at fault at all. They're an innocent carrier of information, which could be done by any other means.
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The "blame" i think accrues mostly to the thieves and their families, but more importantly i just don't think the class action suit is fair / has merit.
i'm with the NHSTA when they said:
“At this time, NHTSA has not determined that this issue constitutes either a safety defect or noncompliance requiring a recall,” wrote Cem Hatipoglu, NHTSA's acting associate director for enforcement, referring to the Hyundai and Kia vehicles susceptible to theft because they lack engine immobilizers.
(https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/hyundai-kia-thefts-recall-engine-immobilizer-does-my-car-have-it-rcna91243) (idk if they've changed their minds since, but i don't think so)
Compare w/ an article from Canadia that says "immobilizers are now obsolete" (because they can be attacked w/ duplicators and w/ range ext
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Bah. the Canada one is
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ant... [ctvnews.ca]
The gold standard of anti-theft protection that was mandated by Canada’s federal government is now effectively obsolete, defeated by thieves dozens of times a day without a clear replacement in the works — often leaving drivers to come up with their own anti-theft solutions.
And the immobilizer’s demise appears to have caught many car manufacturers by surprise, as even brand new vehicles can fall prey to tactics that allow thieves to drive off with a top-of-the-line car or truck in minutes. ...
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True, immobilizers are easy to defeat, but not cheap to.
You either do a relay system (cheapest) which might work for stealing cars from driveways at home, but less likely to work on random cars on the street.
For those, you need a specialized lockpick (around $40 each, specific to car manufacturer and model year), and a special OBD-II code scanner that can reset the key pairing codes.
So keeping away a determined thief an immobilizer isn't much of a challenge. But for keeping petty thieves away, they work. It
Re: It's your fault Jake (Score:1)
For biology students: "My homework ate the dog!"
Ya know ... (Score:5, Funny)
Kia and Hundai could have saved themselves a lot of hassle and, apparently now, money if, when they decided to not included immobilizers in their vehicles, they simply put stickers on the cars saying, "Easy to steal." Then potential buyers could have made informed decisions about purchasing those vehicles. I imagine insurance companies would have liked to know about this up front too -- though I imagine they figured it out before consumers...
Re: Ya know ... (Score:1)
Good luck with that. One does not establish a persistent global presence without knowing how to ensure that when the fix is in, it benefits them.
Streisand effect... (Score:2)
We are fresh out of red herring! (Score:2)
The Problems Continue... (Score:2)
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That's the story of my life - almost every problem I encounter seems like I would be better off rolling my own solution. I'm currently implementing or planning to roll out my own: security camera solution, e-mail server, firewall, IoT server, and numerous other projects. Sure, many other solutions exist, but almost every one of them has questionable security, a terrible interface, requires a subscription or some other form of rent-seeking, has a lack of
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A technique that might work, if your car could have had a feature with a button-control that your particular car lacks, order that control, and wire that as a secondary switch required to activate the starter solenoid. This way your self-rolled solution doesn't stand out inside so a thief won't necessarily know what to push to make the starter operate.
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Is anyone interested in just making a quality product that works well and doesn't screw over their customer at almost every opportunity they get?
Only if that's the most profitable approach, which it doesn't seem to be.
Just fucking fix them. (Score:2)
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It would probably require a new BCM or PCM, because for a feature to work it would need to be integral with the operation of the vehicle. If the system is a bolt-on then it's likely that this bolt-on can simply be removed to restore prior function.
Re: Just fucking fix them. (Score:2)
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I don't think people willing to buy and drive a Kia or Hyundai are particularly discriminating. They'll go with what's cheap.
The problem is fixed in new cars. Has been for QUITE some time. The fact that OLD cars which buyers of NEW cars are not even considering may have this problem is completely irrelevant with respect to buying a new car that does NOT have this problem.
In other words, nobody these days really cares that old man Ford liked Hitler. They'll still buy a Ford if that's what they want to buy.
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The cost of fixing every Kia/Hyundai out there would surely not cost nearly as much as nobody ever buying your shit anymore because of this.
The cars are fixed. It was only very specific models this has applied to.
Club lock anyone? (Score:1)
They aren't completely wrong (Score:2)
The lack of a security measure is one thing, but marketing is quite another. You can see that same trend of global stupidity all over the world where people will queue up in the streets to eat a particular ice cream (which often isn't even very good) just because some idiot on TikTok said to do so.
Yeah the cars are easier to break into than others, but TikTok is most definitely to share the blame in the viral campaign to get idiots to go and steal cars, often for the LOLZ
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I humbly disagree. Information ubiquity is the new reality. Suing against reality never works (or at least is counterproductive). This is always going to happen in today's information economy, and TikTok and Instagram exacerbating the problem leads to a quicker solution.
You build a broken car now, people learn about it in seconds instead of having to wait for Ralph Nader's book. Accountability is a bitch. The faster it comes, the quicker the mounting losses and/or deaths lead to demands for intervention. We
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I humbly disagree. Information ubiquity is the new reality.
Disagree. Information is not ubiquitous except in quite specific circumstances, and often the information which does become ubiquitous is completely random and at the whims of some algorithm that makes some things go viral.
The point here isn't that the car is broken. Things are easily stolen, easily broken into, easily manipulated. But more than not these things are completely ignored until some idiots start thinking they are trendy.
Just look at the tidepod challenge. There's literally 100 products you coul
Kia Hundai recall (Score:2)
https://apnews.com/article/hyu... [apnews.com]
Coincidentally, they are recalling a lot of older models now ... so if yours was stolen don't feel bad, they saved you from a fire.
Try to blame others... (Score:2)
Streisand effect (Score:2)
Expecting Streisand effect in 3, 2, 1...
Oh wait, these companies are already laughing stocks because the story is highly publicized because insurers.
Expecting things to get much, much worse (if at all possible) for Kia/Hyundai in 3, 2, 1...
market? (Score:2)
What about the market? Kia is cheaper because they don't add extra bells and whistles. Maybe there just needs to be disclosure.
If your product sucks (Score:2)
Call it back, like a normal company.
Don't blame somebody else.
Proof is other cars not being stolen... (Score:2)
All the defense has to show is that other cars are not suffering a similar fate, and that the reason the content was shared to begin with is how ridiculously bad the car's "security" mechanism was designed... (probably some high ranking "boss" decided to get rid of some "costly" mechanism, figuring it would be "just fine without it" and "nobody will find out anyway").
Good Lord (Score:1)
It's not the PPD that is the cause, but TicTok?
PS: PPD => Piss Poor Design.