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Transportation IT Technology

Hyundai To Hold Software-Upgrade Clinics Across the US For Vehicles Targeted By Thieves (apnews.com) 59

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Hyundai said this week that it will set up "mobile clinics" at five U.S. locations to provide anti-theft software upgrades for vehicles now regularly targeted by thieves using a technique popularized on TikTok and other social media platforms. From a report: The South Korean automaker will hold the clinics, which will run for two to three days on or adjacent to weekends, in New York City; Chicago; Minneapolis; St. Paul, Minnesota; and Rochester, New York. The clinics will take place between Oct. 28 and Nov. 18. Hyundai said it will also support single-day regional clinics run by dealerships before the end of 2023, although it didn't name locations or dates.
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Hyundai To Hold Software-Upgrade Clinics Across the US For Vehicles Targeted By Thieves More

Hyundai To Hold Software-Upgrade Clinics Across the US For Vehicles Targeted By Thieves

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  • Wouldn't that be convenient?

    • Re:OTA Upgrades (Score:4, Informative)

      by dstwins ( 167742 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @03:39PM (#63956507) Homepage
      OTA requires a pretty substantial investment in infrastructure, backend, logistics, security/privacy and changes to vehicles themselves not to mention partnering with carrier to provide the data. And while that may help future vehicles, its not going to help anything already built or TO be built within 3-5 years.

      And doing it JUST for OTA updates isn't financially viable... unless they start offering other services (which will also deter some customers from buying their products as some customers don't like their vehicles being driving cloud nodes where many features are behind a subscription paywall.... looking at you BMW)

      • BYD cars offer "just" OTA update and don't have any subscription paywalls at all.

      • Re:OTA Upgrades (Score:4, Insightful)

        by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:39PM (#63956643)
        Every recall costs the manufacturer money, as they have to pay for each car to visit the dealership. Software is never bug free, so there will be updates required. As software gets more complex, more bugs will start popping up. JUST for OTA can pay for itself fairly quickly. Think Chevy Bolt battery issue for example. Huge mess, while owners were asked not to charge above some SOC. They are even offering $1,400 to owners today to install the limiting software, which will also test the batter and report back. Tesla has a similar issue, but it quietly went by as they deployed an OTA limiting batteries via OTA after only a couple of cars caught on fire. They also monitor the battery health via OTA telemetry to proactively stay on top of any potential issues, learn about cars usage, aging issues of different parts (not just batteries), etc, etc - a very valuable trove of information (e.g. if majority of users don't use a feature, drop it, annoy a few customers but save a ton of money in production - software and/or hardware). OTA also allows car manufacturers to have customers sign up to be a test fleet for Beta releases, which is free testing on a large scale. Then of course there is a dark side (for customers), OTA allows cars with unfinished software to be sold, with a promise of making features work in the future (extreme example is Tesla FSD).

        So yes, OTA is a complex beast, but it's benefits are huge.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by e3m4n ( 947977 )
          If you dont see a vulnerability I have a bridge to sell you. A car update should be no more convenient than a usb firmware update at the most. OTA can be exploited to causr the car to shut down while traveling the interstate. Just because it HASNT happened does not in any way mean it CANT. Some things should be physically disconnected for safety. Sneaker-net as a hard stop separation.
          • You are scared because OTA adds a new attack surface, but what you don't see is how it reduces and eliminates a lot of attack surfaces. Just because there are things that need securing, doesn't mean it's not worth doing. Everything has vulnerabilities and potential exploits. Everything can be compromised, even stuff that is not connected. Car bombs existed before the internet, so did tampering with brakes, or other exploits on cars. If it's cheaper to hire a criminal to cut someone's brakes, why bother hack

        • Every recall costs the manufacturer money, as they have to pay for each car to visit the dealership. Software is never bug free, so there will be updates required.

          This is called a risk, not a cost of business. The overwhelming majority of vehicles on the market are not recalled, and the overwhelming majority of updates are either optional, or can wait until the next service.

          If we were moving fast and breaking things you'd have a point, or trying to make your car magically self drive with a few video cameras you'd have a point too. But Hyundai is a sane car company.

          Think Chevy Bolt battery issue for example. Huge mess, while owners were asked not to charge above some SOC. They are even offering $1,400 to owners today to install the limiting software, which will also test the batter and report back.

          You are conflating issues. That $1400 is a "please don't sue us" payment. It has nothing to do with OTA

          • Check your facts. It is not a "please don't sue us" payment. The class action lawsuit is already in progress. The $1,400 payment is to install a software to limit the max SOC to 80% for few months while they run tests on the batteries. The terms specifically state anyone who accepts it does not waive ANY rights to the class action lawsuit or individual suites. The only stipulation was that the class action lawsuit wins higher compensation than $1,400, the owner will be paid the remaining balance (so the $1,

        • Every recall costs the manufacturer money, as they have to pay for each car to visit the dealership. Software is never bug free, so there will be updates required.

          So what?

          Do you really think Bugfix Updates are zero-cost for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Adobe, et fucking CETERA?!?

          And this is about as serious as it gets, Vulnerability-wise!

          So, tough shit. Maybe these car companies won't be so cavalier about software development next time.

          • I never said OTA updates are zero cost, They actually cost quite a lot. My point is that the benefits outweigh the cost, not that OTA is zero-cost. Do you think Apple would be as successful as they are if they didn't have OTA?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by EvilSS ( 557649 )

        And while that may help future vehicles, its not going to help anything already built or TO be built within 3-5 years.

        Most new cars today already have cellular "telemetry" modems in them that can and are being used for OTA system updates.

        And doing it JUST for OTA updates isn't financially viable... unless they start offering other services (which will also deter some customers from buying their products as some customers don't like their vehicles being driving cloud nodes where many features are behind a subscription paywall.... looking at you BMW)

        Oh there's another money making reason they might want them: consumer data. Welcome to the future!

    • Not necessary. They should have equipped their vehicles with an immobilizer like everyone else has been doing for decades.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by e3m4n ( 947977 )
        Whaa fucking whaaa. To stupid to use a $25 TheClub??? Fool me one shame on you, fool me 6 times and I should be lobotomized as a fucking retard. You bought a less expensive car. Once the vulnerability is known, get a fucking club till a fix rolls out. Otherwise just fucking shoot yourself and do the gene pool a favor.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Average ( 648 )

      A decent number of these cars are old enough that, if they had an OTA module, it'd be pre-LTE and thus not able to connect to crap in 2023. The same 'time marches on' issue is very likely to be true of 11-year-old Teslas in the next decade.

  • "This clinic should have been a recall!" (Score:3, Informative)

    by iridium213 ( 2029192 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @03:53PM (#63956545)
    "This clinic should have been a recall!" ...
    • I think a recall is for safety related updates/repairs. Why exactly should should this have been a recall?

    • "This clinic should have been a recall!" ...

      Why? On what basis? The car isn't unsafe, the car works as a car just fine, and the car met all legal requirements for sale.

      • "This clinic should have been a recall!" ...

        Why? On what basis? The car isn't unsafe, the car works as a car just fine, and the car met all legal requirements for sale.

        Ok; so it's absolutely ok for a car's Software "Component" to have a "Manufacturing Defect" (Hideous Vulnerability)? That shouldn't fall on the Manufacturer?

        My Chevy HHR had a defect in the Ignition Switch, whereby the Switch could fail, not allowing the Key to be removed. Chevy handled that as a Recall waaaay out of Warranty, even though it was hardly a "Safety Issue".

  • I want a car to get around. people who talk about ota updates... why would you want a car that needs to be updated? Why not just make a car that drives? Are you really so dumb as to let them turn cars in to smartphones?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SirSlud ( 67381 )

      go back to sleep dad

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )

      ...Are you really so dumb...

      There's a thing I don't like. AND I'M GOING TO YELL ABOUT IT. I'm going to belittle anyone who likes it, too.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      Sounds good to me, other than there's no car available that meets that criteria that's less than 30 years old.

    • Hate to break it to ya, but that ship sailed decades ago.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Targon ( 17348 )
      There is a big difference between need and want, but that isn't what you are thinking about. You seem to be one of those people who don't want things to change, EVER, even if it would help you. If an update would get you an extra 5 miles per gallon without sacrificing horsepower, acceleration, or torque, and it didn't require replacing any parts, you would object to that? How about improvements to crash avoidance systems, you wouldn't want your car to keep you from driving full speed into something ah

      • You seem to be one of those people who don't want things to change, EVER, even if it would help you.

        Bro that is the entire republica party.,

  • Maybe its time for Hyundai to offer free AirTags (or equivalent), as a cheap patch, in addition to the OTA updates? If not the owners should probably be putting them in their cars?

    • I put an AirTag (modified to silence any chirping it might do) in my Hyundai AND I keep a Club on the steering wheel any time it's parked.

      Yes, I know the Club is worthless as actual theft prevention, but it's there to say "steal the one two parking spots away instead".

      By the way, my car's firmware has been updated so it won't start if we lock it with the remote - which we always do - but thieves aren't going to know this until word spreads that the extra sticker on the windows tells them the fix has been ap

    • I think they've been giving out steering wheel clubs, because those actually deter theft. An AirTag just increases the likelihood that you'll get your car back after it's been broken into and driven off. I've known a few people who have had their cars stolen and recovered, and the thieves absolutely trashed the cars.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      OMFG just kill yourself if this is the extent of your problem solving. Its called The Club and its $25 at a lot of mechanic places. If you cant figure out how to put a better bike chain on your bike, you deserve to lose your bike, or car in this case. Better yet MOVE. IRONIC that the crime spree dont exist in S Korea, where both Hundai and KIA are made. Its only in cities that are soft as fuck on crime. Punish the fuck out of the youtuber that posted the video (usr the RICO act and charge them with running

      • I agree the steering lock club is certainly a better and cheaper solution. I'd likely go for a combined solution of both. Of course if we had a different culture to how we treated other people's property and enforcement around it, then things would be different, but that's going to a whole other fight.

        If we are talking bikes, then some are worth too much to warrant a padlock and need to be kept in a secure place indoors. I suppose that is true for some cars too?

    • It's not a patch. Knowing approximately where your stolen car is a tremendously inferior solution to it not being stolen. Personally, I have a family member whose car was stolen, recovered, repaired (In$urance deductible), then stolen again and never recovered. They should have recalled them, and didn't, so Hyundai and Kia are firmly on my never buy list.

    • What I don't get is why everyone bought these festering piles in the first place.

      What are we up to now, 50% of Kia and Hyundai models in the US recalled for catching fire while parked?

      I remember when they came to the US in the first place. Ford sold a badge engineered Kia as the Ford Aspire. It was easily the worst piece of shit they ever made. A friend of mine bought one new and it disintegrated.

      Y'all should have known they were pieces of shit from the fact that they were consistently reviewed as pieces of

  • Betting on irony that ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:01PM (#63956717)

    Someone will actually get their Hyundai stolen at one of these "clinics". :-)

  • Hardware (Score:3)

    by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:25PM (#63956769)

    >"to provide anti-theft software upgrades for vehicles"

    I don't see how this will magically add the missing engine immobilizer, which is generally hardware (something that every vehicle I have owned has included for decades, shocking that any vehicle in the last 20+ years doesn't have one).

    So maybe this will help, but I am not sure how it will solve the actual problem.

    • All this software update does is prevent the car from starting unless it was unlocked from the remote. So if the 29-cent battery in your remote is dead (or if it malfunctions), your car won't start, which is why I won't be getting it.

      • I have the new update in my formerly-susceptible Elantra, and I considered the exact scenario you're raising. The workaround is simple: keep a spare 2032 lithium button cell in your center console. Make sure it's a high-quality name-brand battery purchased from a retail outlet and not something from a discount store or online.

        Lithium button cells have a really long shelf life. Ok, maybe somewhat less when stored in a sometimes-hot car, but they should still be good for at least several years. In the event t

    • which is generally hardware

      An engine immobilizer hasn't been hardware for decades, unless you retrofitted it to a vehicle without one. It's just interlock code in the ECU. Literally a software comparison between a key in the ECU and some external source (which used to be a little RFID or other wireless thing in the key, but nowadays is just incorporated into the keyfob's functionality itself).

      • Correct. And these cars are not push-to-start, yet have no RFID reader and no chipped keys. Both of which are hardware.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The software fix disables the ignition when the doors are locked from the keyfob. It only enables again when the doors are unlocked from the keyfob. If the fob battery dies and you have to use the key to get into the vehicle, it won't start.

      • Or if the fob dies, which given that this is a Hyundai product, seems extremely likely.

        Gonna have to store a fob in the vehicle...

  • What is this "clinic" shit? (Score:3)

    by bjwest ( 14070 ) on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:26PM (#63956773)
    This should be a recall issue, and handled at ALL Hyundai dealers. Why should I have to potentially drive thousands of miles to get a fix to a problem that shouldn't have made it out of the factory doors?

    • On what basis should it have been a recall? Is the car materially unsafe according to the NHTSA? Has the car failed to meet the regulations set out in the USA? You can drive your car thousands of miles, and do so safely without issue. If this were recall worthy then you should *not* be able to do that.

  • so, do I have to steal a Hyundai before I can attend the clinic ?

  • How exactly can they fix this with a software update?

    • The software update they're installing makes it so that if the car is locked using the keyfob remote, it must be UN-locked with the remote or the engine won't start and the alarm will sound. After the update was installed on my Elantra I tested it by non-destructively disassembling my steering column cover and removing the lock and the firmware works as advertised.

      When the new firmware is installed they also put an additional sticker on the front driver and passenger windows. It'll take a while, but wanna-b

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