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Transportation AI

Cruise Recalls All of Its Self Driving Cars To Fix Their Programming (cnn.com) 31

Posted by BeauHD from the time-to-update dept.
Long-time Slashdot reader destinyland shares a report from CNN Business: Cruise, General Motors' self-driving vehicle subsidiary, has recalled all 950 of its autonomous vehicles for a software update. Late last month, Cruise paused all its public testing operations while it investigated the incident that led to the recall. [...]

The update will alter the way the car responds after an impact is detected. In [that infamous San Francisco accident], the vehicle had incorrectly determined that it was struck on the side rather than hitting something in the front, according to a report (PDF) Cruise filed with NHTSA. The report did not detail exactly what the software update changes, only that it "remedies the issue described in this notice."

The cars can be returned to service once the updates are completed, Cruise said in its report to NHTSA. Cruise doesn't sell its self-driving vehicles so all the cars are owned by either Cruise or GM, which produces the heavily modified Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles. The company will perform the software updates itself.
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Cruise Recalls All of Its Self Driving Cars To Fix Their Programming More

Cruise Recalls All of Its Self Driving Cars To Fix Their Programming

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  • ...the vehicle had incorrectly determined that it was struck on the side rather than hitting something in the front, according to a report (PDF) Cruise filed with NHTSA...

    Meanwhile, we mere mortals are supposed to believe that our hyper-modern and ultra-safe cars justify the 10x cost increase for a fucking fender bender because sensors everywhere.

    I'm not even sure what I'm more pissed about; self-driving being marketed as viable, or repair costs being sold as justified. Bullshit excuses, are bullshit.

    • Re:Insurance fraud. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @10:35PM (#63991991)

      or repair costs being sold as justified. Bullshit excuses, are bullshit.

      The issue is not the damage to a vehicle. The issue is all the sensors and electronics which might be in the damaged section. If someone runs into you from the back (at slow speed), it's not just the bumper which will need replaced. You will probably have to have the backup camera replaced as well, and any sensors in the bumper repaired/replaced.

      In addition to the sensors, there is the calibration of the sensors. That backup camera has to be correctly positioned so it provides the correct image and so the computer can properly inform you of where you are in relation to the curb you're backing toward. The same would happen if you hit someone. There are now a ton of sensors in the front of modern cars. Each one would have to be checked to ensure it wasn't damaged and was correctly sensing.

      This may have been the story [go.com] I was thinking of when I started this comment. It mentions some of the things I did.

      • or repair costs being sold as justified. Bullshit excuses, are bullshit.

        The issue is not the damage to a vehicle. The issue is all the sensors and electronics which might be in the damaged section. If someone runs into you from the back (at slow speed), it's not just the bumper which will need replaced. You will probably have to have the backup camera replaced as well, and any sensors in the bumper repaired/replaced.

        I wasn't arguing about the cost of electronics or sensors. Besides, we have enough corruption with manufacturers purposely moving shit like turn signals into crash bumpers so that society is forced to repair what used to be a mere bumper (hint, fucking name). I was more arguing over the fact that we citizens are lead to believe that MOAR SENSORZ are the answer to safety and security, while a major auto manufacturer makes a bold claim that they can't even tell if a crash happened on the front or the side o

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Hopefully safety enhancements like backup cameras and parking sensors should reduce accidents, so any increased repair cost would be offset.

        Problem is, not everyone has them, and insurance costs are based partly on how much damage you could do by rear-ending an expensive vehicle in your 15 year old beater.

        Additionally, many people will simply ignore small accidents that only result in some paintwork damage or a dent. So while those kinds of accidents may be reduced, they were not paying for them anyway, and

    • But they flipped the bits! Honest mistake
    • I concur. I've been dealing with AI in another industry. All the buisness majors see is a shinny new bauble, all I see is a ethics and liability train wreck. It's gotten so bad, I'm thinking of getting out, quiting engineering altogether, and go rebuild antique cars.

  • release notes (Score:5, Funny)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @10:41PM (#63991995)

    * Anti-dragging pedestrians under the vehicle 0.3
    * Anti-stopping on top of pedestrians 0.3

  • The update will alter the way the car responds after an impact is detected.

    So just how does the software determine an impact has occurred? I don't see answers on this from either Cruise or Tesla.

    Presumably, the existing sensors can detect objects and track their vectors that would intersect with the car itself. Either before or after the fact. But is that going to be enough?

    I am sure that everyone here will be able to describe scenarios that could easily result in either a false positive or a false negative. I don't see how the products can be viable, at least for full a

    • So just how does the software determine an impact has occurred?

      It listens for the phrase "get this car off of me!"

      • Then what? Kicks in the hydraulics and grows a foot of ground clearance? Active suspension with the ability to fully avoid large objects in the first place?

    • The update will alter the way the car responds after an impact is detected.

      So just how does the software determine an impact has occurred? I don't see answers on this from either Cruise or Tesla.

      I have a better idea. Why don't we ask the insurance companies being forced to pay for $5K bumpers and $10K side panels because sensors, while the manufacturer who lied about why those bumpers and side panels cost so much gets away with "we can't tell" excuses. Not only have consumers been sold lies for years, but insurance has as well.

      • Re:OK, but how? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Thursday November 09, 2023 @12:45AM (#63992167)

        I'm with you about the sensors. I purposely replace my vehicles with model years that don't contain sensors. I just picked up a one owner 2001 Mercury Sable LS with 70K on the odometer. It also came with a complete history of all repairs and recalls performed over the years. The price ... $2200. It's in near mint condition. Screw these new $50K plus sensors on wheels. My Sable has knobs and buttons on the dash too .. oh joy! I do want an EV but not until all those useless sensors, mothership connection, and stupid big iPad on the dash are gone. Until then it's ICE ICE baby.

        • Until then it's ICE ICE baby.

          Heh, thanks for the laugh. This ironically sounds like one hell of a marketing comeback for a guy named Vanilla to promote gas-powered vehicles.

    • So just how does the software determine an impact has occurred? I don't see answers on this from either Cruise or Tesla.

      Probably with an IMU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • Seems odd... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @11:11PM (#63992039) Journal
    A few articles down we had a factory robot crush someone and the verdict was "obviously dangerous; never should have been in range without lock out/tag out"; and here we have a bunch of cowboys operating what are basically free-range robots amply capable of exerting as much or more force as an industrial manipulator bolted to the floor with a well signed swing zone and it's "eh, we'll patch that, no big deal"...

    • it's "eh, we'll patch that, no big deal"...

      I disagree on it being "no big deal". They took the vehicles out of service until the patch could be developed and actually deployed to the vehicle.

      I mean, short of taking all the cars off the road, feeding them to a shredder, and shutting down the program (like what Uber did after their fatal crash) what more can they do to mark it as a "big deal"?

      "no big deal" would be "Eh, we'll get around to patching that when we have some free time", not taking the vehicles out of service, etc...

      Instead a very serious

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by evanh ( 627108 )

      It's the reason why a driver's licence is a requirement. Vehicles are inherently dangerous to operate, even for humans. They are deemed a necessity however.

      Therefore, self-driving is going to have to prove, beyond doubt, of it's ability to do better than humans. And probably a lot better. Still a long way to go. Another 50 years maybe.

      That said, long-haul automation will happen sooner. Highways don't have the same complexities as city streets. Rail will be easy in comparison but investors won't see m

    • Re:Seems odd... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RobinH ( 124750 ) on Thursday November 09, 2023 @09:06AM (#63992663) Homepage
      I've been doing industrial automation since 2000. When I graduated university I thought "safety" was all about smart programmers thinking through all the things that could go wrong and programming around them. When I got into industry my colleagues very quickly corrected my misunderstanding and I learned that safety is about engineering and control of potential energy, and making sure that no single failure can cause a life threatening situation, and that the failure is detected before the next time that component is needed. The reason we have millions of industrial robots, including AGVs roaming around factory floors, without it being a bloodbath, is because the industrial automation industry understands safety and takes it seriously above all else. When we do have a fatality in industrial automation, it's always a technician who bypassed safety and made a mistake. Universities don't teach these topics *at all*. But when a startup thinks they can invent self-driving cars, they hire young, eager, low-wage people right out of university with almost no experience, and tell them to make a car drive itself, "but yeah, make sure it doesn't hit a pedestrian." Honestly, what did we think would happen?
      • In a factory where I used to work, we replaced human operators with some Staubli multi-axis robots. Even though the robots were bolted to the floor, we still had to surround them with a cage. The only way to get into the cage was to disconnect the main contactor, severing all power to the robot, AND put a padlock on the contactor so that nobody could turn it on while you were inside. It was impossible to operate the door, unless the main contactor was locked-out.

        That was for a robot in a controlled environm

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by RobinH ( 124750 )

          It seems odd to me that you need to turn off the main disconnect to go into the cell. The gate should have a category 4 safety switch installed, wired into the robot controller itself, which should disable power, and the reset button can only be reachable from outside the cell. There's a way to put the robot into "teach mode" (T1) which allows you to power and move the robot while you're in the cell, but you have to hold the dead-man switch on the teach pendant the entire time, and limits the speed to 250

  • Car company recalls cars for a software update?

    Don't the simply do it over the air? Did they really make self driving cars that lack the ability to download and install updates?
  • Driverless cars cannot deal with the non-linear problems of driving because they are not really intelligent, and should their be a real shooting war here, they will be part of our downfall. In the meantime they serve no purpose other than to change a large number of American jobs--into a medium number of Chinese part supplier jobs, and add to one rich asshole's wealth.

  • This is the statistic that needs to be focused on. Of course there are going to be bad things happen as a new technology settles in, and the media will focus on these. Spotting the saved lives is rather less easy!

  • Only 999,999 more flaws to go!

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