Microsoft Revives Aggressive Windows 11 Upgrade Campaign With Intrusive Popups (techspot.com) 118
An anonymous reader shares a report: Most people know that Microsoft really wants everyone to move onto Windows 11. But just in case there are some Windows 10 users still unaware of this fact, the company is once again nagging them to upgrade with full-screen, multi-slide popups. The lengthy advertisement for Windows 11 was highlighted by Windows Latest after it installed the optional January update (in preview) on a Windows 10 machine.
The nagging Windows 11 upgrade promo consists of an excruciating number of screens (i.e., more than one): The first informs users that they can switch to Windows 11 for free and that they can still use their PC while the newer OS is set up in the background; another is Microsoft recommending the move and noting that users can revert to Windows 10 within the first ten days of upgrading; the last is for those who decide to stay on Windows 10, with a reminder that Windows 11 remains a free upgrade option. There is another panel that lists some of Windows 11 features, but this only appears for those who select the 'See what's inside' button.
The nagging Windows 11 upgrade promo consists of an excruciating number of screens (i.e., more than one): The first informs users that they can switch to Windows 11 for free and that they can still use their PC while the newer OS is set up in the background; another is Microsoft recommending the move and noting that users can revert to Windows 10 within the first ten days of upgrading; the last is for those who decide to stay on Windows 10, with a reminder that Windows 11 remains a free upgrade option. There is another panel that lists some of Windows 11 features, but this only appears for those who select the 'See what's inside' button.
My Computer isn't compatible (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure why the requirements on CPU are so restrictive. I've go a desktop from 2015 with an AMD A8-7600 APU and it's not on their list of supported CPUs for some reason, so I've never had it ask me to upgrade. I'm not sure where they came up with the compatibility requirements.
Re: (Score:2)
> Not sure why the requirements on CPU are so restrictive.
I thought it was because newer PC's have extra DRM that MS loves for snooping, lock-in, and controlling customers.
Re:My Computer isn't compatible (Score:5, Interesting)
> Not sure why the requirements on CPU are so restrictive.
I thought it was because newer PC's have extra DRM that MS loves for snooping, lock-in, and controlling customers.
That is the most likely explanation. Another factor may be a hand-out to hardware makers in exchange for some favors in return. Did you know that, for example, AMD CPUs have an MS-designed "security" processor in there? That kind of shady dealing probably also plays a part in things.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, every AMD processor after the FX line has a little snitch inside of it. But since Intel is even worse, and nothing else offers the same combination of price:performance and compatibility with architectures that matter to me given what I want to run, AMD it is.
I sold on my FX-8350 for various reasons with a GA-MA770-UD3P and 32GB of some fairly fast memory and now it's a friend's home fileserver. He uses Macs for photography-related stuff but has a Unix background...
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. AMD gives you a lot of bang for the buck, Intel does not. The only Intel CPU I have running is in one work laptop where I was not asked. Incidentally, I have an FX-8350 on the GA-MA770-UD3 still as reserve for when my old Phnom II based firewall / file-server gets hardware issues.
Re: (Score:2)
Occam's Razor. The simplest and most likely explanation is that they simply didn't want to support older hardware. It costs them money, the upgrade is free so they don't even make a sale, and the consequences of sending millions of working machines to landfill are non-existent for Microsoft.
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft is providing support? News to me.
It also fails plausibility. Why would requiring a v2.0 TMP have any real impact on support cost?
Re: (Score:2)
Because if you support TPM 1 or no TPM, you must support those configurations, and test every release with them.
Re: (Score:3)
Casual Linux lusrs are overjoyed M$ has such a concern for CPU speed supporting their fine OS. We expect deactivation of Windows hard-drives is next, as nasty user-controlled programs like DD can clean-the-clock of insistent Windows-11 installs. Can't have THAT happening. And what about vidcams that can be covered with socks so the OS-masters can't enumerate key-strokes? Windows says make the entire monitor-screen a camera ! The list goes on-and-on. Linux users must just hobble-along with last century tek ... oh the shame ...
If you're doing a crazy rant, you misspelled 'teh' wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
Casual Linux lusrs are overjoyed M$ has such a concern for CPU speed supporting their fine OS. We expect deactivation of Windows hard-drives is next, as nasty user-controlled programs like DD can clean-the-clock of insistent Windows-11 installs. Can't have THAT happening. And what about vidcams that can be covered with socks so the OS-masters can't enumerate key-strokes? Windows says make the entire monitor-screen a camera ! The list goes on-and-on. Linux users must just hobble-along with last century tek ... oh the shame ...
I'd like to meet this weirdo.
Re: (Score:2)
make the entire monitor-screen a camera !
The word is Telescreen, dude, FYI :)
Re:My Computer isn't compatible (Score:5, Interesting)
TPM version 2. DRM in your machine doesn't allow sufficient highjacking and malware lock-in rights for microsoft. Please upgrade to a stronger anal probe so it can be used on you.
Re: (Score:2)
As far as I'm aware TPM is a function of the motherboard, not the processor. My motherboard has a TPM header, so I'm assuming if I installed one it would fulfill that requirement. The processor list that they support is a whole different list.
Re: My Computer isn't compatible (Score:2)
Re:My Computer isn't compatible (Score:4, Informative)
TPM v2 as far as windows 11 is concerned is either AMD fTPM or Intel PTT. Both sit on the CPU. Only early versions of TPM modules (that windows 11 does not support) were on the motherboard.
Re:My Computer isn't compatible (Score:5, Informative)
You can get TPM v2 modules off AliExpress for $10 or so. TPM v2 can be in newer CPUs, but it also can be external on the mainboard. You can disable it in the BIOS to prevent Win11 being forced on you in both cases and I have done that.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think so. I am pretty sure the misdirection and deception which Microsoft is using to try to get you to install Win11 qualifies as criminal Computer Sabotage. Some malware is more transparent about what it is trying to do. Several times now I had to really look to find any clear "do not do it" option and one time I did a hard reset to prevent it from happening because it was just not clear what it was actually going to do. And that means they try to "force" me.
So no, I got nothing "backwards" here.
Re: (Score:2)
I wish you the best of luck arguing your legal case. Can I have the case number and jurisdiction you're pursuing it at so I can follow it?
Re: (Score:2)
You do know that "the law" is deeply corrupt, right?
Re: (Score:2)
By your estimation, what is pure of corruption in the same category of existence as "the law"?
If no such thing exists and yet you strive for it, are you sure you're not the insane one in the ocean of sanity rather than vice versa?
Re: (Score:2)
it's hard to get windows 11 installed on a machine without those two specific TPM implementations
Setting a few registry keys is hard?
Re: (Score:2)
While OS's installer is running? You may be one of those "climbing a tree ass first? Is that hard?" people, but most people find this to be so exceedingly convoluted of a process, that pre-hacked ISOs are a way bigger thing than any ass first tree climbing.
Re: (Score:2)
While OS's installer is running? You may be one of those "climbing a tree ass first? Is that hard?" people, but most people find this to be so exceedingly convoluted of a process, that pre-hacked ISOs are a way bigger thing than any ass first tree climbing.
Bro, you hit Shift-f10 before you install and then you get a prompt from which you can run regedit. This is not hard stuff and you can google for the bypass instructions. Most people don't install Windows themselves regardless. They buy a new PC, usually when Windows has shit itself and they can't remember how to initiate recovery.
Re: (Score:2)
>Most people don't install Windows themselves regardless.
So have you bought any PC lately? Because windows today is almost unversally shipped in a state where machine has ISO preloaded, and it will install it for you after you go through the basic setup. So almost everyone who buys a windows PC from OEM has to install windows. The only exception here are the builders and those who buy a pre-built PC non-OEM PC without windows.
Because I just had to handle two new win 11 PCs. They came in exactly the same
Re: My Computer isn't compatible (Score:2)
"fucking around with regedit manually from install is a nightmare. You basically need a working machine next to you for detailed instruction"
It's called a phone.
Don't be so fucking helpless.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah yes, the tiny screen, the barely functional split screen and it requires a fucking hand to hold.
If I had a free hand when working keyboard and mouse, I'd rather just jack off personally. You're getting fucked by microsoft. Might as well get some pleasure out of it.
But you do you.
Re: (Score:2)
There doesn't seem to be any effort to automagically downgrade windows 10 install to windows 11, like there was for windows 7 to windows 10.
Yet. Of course such a thing would NEVER happen again, so let's just forgive and forget.
Re: (Score:2)
I literally remind you of what happened and call it a "downgrade" in the quote you chose.
Re: (Score:3)
TPM v2 as far as windows 11 is concerned is either AMD fTPM or Intel PTT. Both sit on the CPU. Only early versions of TPM modules (that windows 11 does not support) were on the motherboard.
Not quite true. You most definitely can get and add TPM v2 modules to many motherboards if your CPU doesn't support them. Unfortunately they are neither commonly available nor cheap (given what you're getting). Even now many business PCs ship with separate TPM modules on the motherboard even when they have an fTPM implementation.
Re: (Score:2)
And windows 11 will at best ignore them, and at worst throw up a huge "what the fuck is this?!" temper tantrum.
Which is why microsoft has been telling admins to turn off the custom implementations and turn on fTPM or PTT depending on vendor or else get no support.
Re: (Score:2)
No it won't. Windows 11 will actively prefer them. Presented with a fTPM module and a motherboard TPM module Windows 11 defaults to using the one on the motherboard. This allows stored credentials to survive a CPU change as well.
Which is why microsoft has been telling admins to turn off the custom implementations and turn on fTPM
No they haven't. Microsoft has been telling admins to turn on fTPM when no other TPM system is present or if the TPM system doesn't meet the minimum requirements.
But congrats on setting off the bullshit detector on everyone reading your post. You've pivoted very quickly from your ig
Re: (Score:2)
Funniest part is that if you google the exact question being asked, you'll hit a microsoft bulletin that gives you specific instructions on how to turn on fTPM/PTT over the motherboard one.
Perhaps you should consider not posting from the cow barn if you're smelling bullshit?
Re: (Score:3)
My 6700k has TPM 2. It's not on the compatibility list for Windows 11, which starts at Gen 8 for Intel Core series.
TPM 2 is a different requirement than the CPU requirement. You can get a TPM 2 module for most modern moderns for 10$ off Amazon if your motherboard doesn't have it already.
The more you know : https://learn.microsoft.com/en... [microsoft.com]
Re: (Score:2)
TPM versioning is a bit of a clusterfuck. Technically 6xxx is TPM 1.2 or 2.0 depending on definition. Microsoft's definition is that it's 1.2 and therefore unsupported.
Microsoft also specifically ignores any off-CPU TPM. You can't just plug in a chip into your motherboard, even if it supports it. Won't work. Microsoft in fact specifically instructs to turn that off in BIOS and turn on PTT or fTMP for windows 11 to install.
Of course you can just grab a hacked ISO with that check turned off. All you get is no
Re: (Score:3)
That almost sounds like a complaint my friend -- you should feel lucky. MS isn't hassling you, that's always a win.
Re: (Score:2)
Same boat here (on an i7 that's certainly fast enough).
Sadly, I wish I could upgrade it via the free option. I never wanted to own a Windows laptop in the first place, but work "needed" it for meetings. That's the only use it gets. I could replace it with a really cheap Windows 11 mini or something, but why? I think there are some hacks to work around the requirements, but it's not worth my time. If I get something to replace it, it'll probably be a chromebook.
Re: (Score:3)
You can install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, but the install doesn't accept the semi-annual version upgrades. It's possible to find media that can be used to manually upgrade your install, or you can do a completely new Windows installation every six months. Either way is kind of a PITA.
The workstation I use in my office is a Xeon E2288. I've just reinstalled Windows 11 to get it up to date a couple times now; it's way too nice of a machine for me to scrap but I also don't need it anywhere else.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
We have five computers in our home network -- all bought within the last couple of years with Win 10. None of these are 'compatible'. Windows 11 has nothing that makes me want to buy all new machines to satisfy their sales staff. When they pulled this the last time, windows update was trying to install the 'upgrade' on a machine that failed the compatibility test -- video hardware (in a laptop) needed to be replaced. That was a big slice of not going to happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure why the requirements on CPU are so restrictive. I've go a desktop from 2015 with an AMD A8-7600 APU and it's not on their list of supported CPUs for some reason, so I've never had it ask me to upgrade. I'm not sure where they came up with the compatibility requirements.
I've a Ryzen 5 5600x and RXT3070 that I build myself which "isn't" powerful enough to run Windows 11... I hope that never changes as I bough a Ryzen 5 laptop with a 3050 that came with Windows 11 and it was so horrible that I was resolved to install Windows 10 on that laptop within 5 minutes.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure where they came up with the compatibility requirements.
NSA. The cryptography required is only available with TPM 2.0 Part of the whole Palladium push that everyone said couldn't happen. 20 years later and here it is, just as they said. The computer really Really REALLY isn't yours. You are merely allowed to use it.
Desperation is good news (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. Add their full Azure compromise last year and it is generally not looking like MS has much of a future. But, kind of like Boeing, they will be dying slowly, unfortunately.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't confuse convincing the last few with a failed rollout. Windows 11 is used on half a billion devices. You can call it what you want, but calling it "not great" is dishonest given its market share. Remember you could buy a new computer in 2018 that was incompatible with Windows 11 which just shows that users largely don't care and will upgrade blindly if they can.
But simple things can hold you back, simple things like not having secure boot enabled, or my dad's new computer built in late 2020 by a 3rd p
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe, but this campaign has been working wonders. People are upgrading from Windows 10. The Linux desktop percentage has gone from languishing at barely measurable for decades to growing at 1% per year [statcounter.com] since the Windows 11 push started. That doesn't include Steam, or ChromeOS. It's an outcome that took the full might of Microsoft Marketing muscle to achieve - we freetards had no hope on our own. Thanks Microsoft!
Now if only Google can do
Re: (Score:2)
So what is (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
localhost
Re: So what is (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You can switch off the TPM in the BIOS, making you machine instantly "incompatible" with Win11.
Sabbotaging a Paid-For Product (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
In the future they'll just disable various pieces of software by saying it's no longer supported so you need to upgrade.
You'll never an ad like this [jalopnik.com].
Re: (Score:3)
Yup. It'll remote disable your vehicle. For your safety of course. Can't have you driving around in an obsolete 5 year old vehicle.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Would it be legal for a car company to smash your car in your driveway--because they have a new one to sell you?
This is more along the lines of obstructing your view while you're cruising down the highway to show you ads for the newest model. Which should be illegal, but if they can find a way to do it, you know the big motor companies would be doing it non-stop on older vehicles. And if somebody happened to die because of it, I'm sure they'd be fined the equivalent of shaking out the couch cushions for the average person.
Re: (Score:1)
They could show full-screen, multi-slide popups in the infotainment system.
Re: (Score:2)
Would it be legal for a car company to smash your car in your driveway--because they have a new one to sell you?
Umm, they already do that... except it isn't "smashing", it is designing parts of the vehicle to fail after X, for whatever X is. Same effect, different mechanism, completely legal.
Meh (Score:3)
I disabled automatic updates via the policy editor. If anything important comes up I can grab it manually. in the mean time I don't get bothered with any of this stuff. My usage is very conservative and the likelihood of being exposed to a vulnerability that I haven't gotten around to patching is quite low. Updating one's browser and running ad/malware blockers is far more important as a vector to entry.
"If it ain't broke..."
Re:Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Turn on updates and get shit you don't want annoying you.
2. Turn off updates and ignore the risks.
3. Turn off updates and waste time reviewing patches that you might need, then manually installing them.
I'm glad I left all that shit behind years ago and haven't regretted it.
Block the Windows 11 upgrade using Group Policy (Score:5, Informative)
gpedit.msc
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Windows Updates for Business
Feature Update version
Select Enabled
Enter Windows 10 as product version
Enter 22H2 as target version
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
gpedit.msc
"Windows cannot find 'gpedit.msc'. Make sure you've typed the name correctly, then try again."
The majority of non-business installations of Windows are the "Home" version which haven't contained gpedit.msc for a long time.
Windows 11: Downgrade (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
My favorite is Windows 11 changing the authentication to make it much harder to use RDP between stand-alone workstations with the same Microsoft Account as the login.
Event Logs have always been slow and terrible.
The context menu is a one-shot fix, at least,
reg.exe add "HKCU\Software\Classes\CLSID\{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\InprocServer32" /f /ve
from whichever command line you prefer will make it work how it used to.
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft Account as the login.
Oh dear... Someone is using Windows in a terribly wrong way.
I fixed this by switching to Debian (Score:5, Insightful)
Thirty years. I used Windows exclusively for thirty years, and in the end it wasn't cost or programs or features that made me ditch Windows, it was Microsoft acting like this - like they owned my machine and me just because some of their software was on it.
Our entire house runs *nix flavors now, even my 8yo's PC that just does Minecraft.
You have to wonder how many people would shrug and move their stuff to something like Ubuntu or Zorin, and the only thing stopping them is they don't even know that's an option.
Re: (Score:3)
If you're on Debian you might want to give minetest a go. You can self host it fully which is pretty cool.
Had some fun with the 'digtron' machines which your kid might like to build themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
I am also a former long-time Windows user. I replaced Windows in 2021 after it became clear that Microsoft no longer respected my agency or privacy. It's funny and sad that years ago, software that changed settings and installed software without permission, displayed ads, and tracked user behavior was called adware/malvertising! Today, that's just what Windows is.
I switched mostly to Mac for now, but I'm using Zorin on one PC. I can't use Linux for everyday stuff because it simply doesn't support my photogr
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I fixed this by switching to Debian (Score:5, Informative)
it was Microsoft acting like this - like they owned my machine and me just because some of their software was on it.
This sounds like one of the things some bearded nerd would get very upset about. [gnu.org]
"If the users don't control the program, the program controls the users. With proprietary software, there is always some entity, the "owner" of the program, that controls the program and through it, exercises power over its users. A nonfree program is a yoke, an instrument of unjust power."
- Richard Stallman
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. Same here. Tricking users into Win11 is probably a criminal act, but nobody is willing to stop Microsoft.
Been so long (Score:3)
Not had a Windows install for a long time.
Are there any distros doing TPM things that are invasive? Are MS the only OS producer that are using TPM?
Re: (Score:2)
Invasive? No. There is support in the Linux kernel for the TPM. I'm not sure exactly what all it is used for but I've read about using it for disk encryption keys. Also there is work being done to secure the Linux boot process, including unified, signed kernel and initramfs images. While this may not be of interest to you or I, in certain environments this is quite a bit deal and a rather important part of system security. For example a cloud compute provider. And no one is forced to use it. Could i
Re: (Score:2)
Distros generally are not "invasive". Ath the most you can load a module to support the TPM, but you can disable that module loading and you can remove it. Linux still assumes very little is actually present on a machine and a TPM is not among those things. This will probably not change as for the foreseeable future. IT also helps that Linux is designed for systems way too small to even have a TPM option.
So, use it? Probably, but only if you want to. Need it? I do not see that happening for a long time.
Surely this time (Score:2, Troll)
Re: (Score:2)
10 or 15% will switch, the rest will become a giant botnet that will join Microsoft's AI, and then ... John Conner will emerge and pick a fight.
Re: (Score:1)
I will still have to interact with windows 11 for work, but I'm going to start referring to it as the clown os...
Re: (Score:2)
I've been using Linux for a quarter century, mostly for servers. Over Christmas Windows 11 got unbearable. I'm off work due to illness and I replaced the SSD in my laptop and put Mint on the new SSD. The only thing that I miss is Google Drive, but even my Google Drive can be mounted. It was dead easy to switch over after I stopped needing proprietary software to work considering most of what I do is in the browser. I don't think that I'm a typical switcher. Most folks will suffer and complain.
Computer not eligible for Windows 11 (Score:2)
My computer isn't eligible for Windows 11 for whatever reason, so I'm safe.
Re: (Score:3)
I made my Win10 computers not compatible to be safe from (essentially criminal) sneaky "updates" to Win11 by disabling the TPM in the BIOS.
Re: (Score:2)
Forced upgrade of the hardware to keep the OEMs selling the boxes with Windows pre-installed/
And this is why disabling updates is a good thing (Score:2)
In the past say, 3 months there's been how many instances of MS shitting out these horrible updates; that without correction action YOUR machine would be fisted by (emphasis on who actually owns the machine)? If that's not justification for disabling windows updates, i don't know what is -- Windows Update Blocker is an absolute godsend. (thank you again Microsoft for going out of your way to prevent end users from disabling auto-updates. it's great!)
tl;dr FUCK OFF Microsoft.
I will never use windows 11 no
Re: (Score:2)
That said I'm still completely baffled on why 11 even exists. what's wrong with 10?
Obviously, Win11 is only Win10 with some specific changes, but nothing major on the engineering side. My take is that all the restrictions and stuff forced on customers are things that MS knows it might have failed to push on customers if they were done to Win10. Hence they did split all the repulsive crap they want to do to their customers into two steps, with the first one being done in Win10 (spying and others) and essentially fake a "new" version to force all these things on people with Win11 in a secon
Re: (Score:1)
I think the reason why they're so desperate to get everyone switched to 11 is simply that they have implemented more advertising and user tracking in 11 that brings them greater recurring revenue. Windows 11 is the least user-respecting MS operating system to date, but probably also the OS that drives the most recurring revenue for Microsoft.
OPTIONAL UPDATE (Score:2)
Great, more crap (Score:2)
If this were not MS, they would get hit with a cease & desist and a fine huge enough that they would have to stop. Instead, nobody is willing to call them to order and that is just wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
They're a defense contractor, they're part of PRISM, they are the state. Practically every government computer that's not from IBM is running Windows, and there are probably some somewhere from IBM which are still despite how long it's been since they owned a PC line.
Windows 11 is an insult to Operating Systems! (Score:3)
I've often said that "Linux is for people who have to do work, Windows is for people who pretend to do work.", and that always, and consistently proves true. On this notebook, a powerful XPS 15 2023 edition, I have Fedora 39 and Windows 11, The hardware is almost identical, the NVMe drives are technically different, but the same model, so why does Windows 11 run ~50% slower or more latent? It's not just annoying, it's a real problem.
Some of the problems:
1. Keyboard leg
2. Freezing, where the system is unresponsive.
3. Disconnection, WiFi, Bluetooth, even the entire sound subsystem.
4. Crashing! Oh ya, crashed four times yesterday, literally four.
Microsoft knows Windows 11 is shit, that's why they forcibly break Skype, Teams and other software so it can't run on Linux. They do that so you're forced to use Windows, because if they don't force you, you won't use it, even for free.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Until Microsofts upgrades my hardware (Score:2)
The more they close the fist (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
IMO, you use windows the only way it should be used. Still surprises me how comments seem to read on these type articles.
There was a time here when people would be apologetic or a bit shamed about admitting using Windows. Now seems most people here do not care how much Windows can suck and just use it. Interesting times as they say.
Drop your stupid system requirements (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Your AI-powered copilot (Score:2)
Don't make me. (Score:2)
Don't fore me to upgrade to a "better" operating system, because if you do, I may well go out and find one.
And given my recent experience with a Steam Deck (Linux running Wine/Proton), I'm not hard-pushed to think of a single reason that such an operating system would be Windows-based at all.
And this is coming from someone who exclusively ran a Slackware-based desktop for about 8-9 years while managing Windows networks. Windows 7 bought you a lot of kudos, even if it was far from perfect, and it could also
wake me up when windows 12 comes out (Score:1)