Canada Moves To Ban the Flipper Zero Over Car Hacking Fears 63
It appears that the government of Canada is going to ban the Flipper Zero, the tiny, modular hacking device that's become popular with techies for its deviant digital powers. From a report: On Thursday, following a summit that focused on "the growing challenge of auto theft in Canada," the country's Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry posted a statement on X, saying "Criminals have been using sophisticated tools to steal cars...Today, I announced we are banning the importation, sale and use of consumer hacking devices, like flippers, used to commit these crimes.
In a press release issued on Thursday, the Canadian government confirmed that it will be pursuing "all avenues to ban devices used to steal vehicles by copying the wireless signals for remote keyless entry, such as the Flipper Zero." The Flipper, which is technically a penetration testing device, has been controversial due to its ability to hack droves of smart products. Alex Kulagin, the COO of Flipper Devices, said in a statement shared with Gizmodo that the device couldn't be used to "hijack any car" and that certain circumstances would have to be met for it to happen:
In a press release issued on Thursday, the Canadian government confirmed that it will be pursuing "all avenues to ban devices used to steal vehicles by copying the wireless signals for remote keyless entry, such as the Flipper Zero." The Flipper, which is technically a penetration testing device, has been controversial due to its ability to hack droves of smart products. Alex Kulagin, the COO of Flipper Devices, said in a statement shared with Gizmodo that the device couldn't be used to "hijack any car" and that certain circumstances would have to be met for it to happen:
Ban Smartphones, Laptops & Tablets Too (Score:3, Insightful)
Since they can all be used for the same task. Idiots.
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Don't forget coathangers! (Score:3)
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Unfortunately for you this comment triggered a memory from many decades ago and now I must share it. When I was a young lad in 7th grade in south Alabama, a teacher asked me if I was born with the earring in my ear since that was highly frowned upon back then. I replied to her "Yes. I was born with an earring in my ear but it was a coat hanger. I was still breathing so they put me on life support." She didn't ask me anymore about the earring in my ear.
Re:Don't forget coathangers! (Score:5, Insightful)
we have republicans. sadly, coat hangers are going to make an ugly return.
If Canada is worried about this... (Score:2, Funny)
...I take it they don't sell Kia or Hyundai in Canada?
If they do, perhaps we wait to tell them. They'd shit themselves over the news.
Re:If Canada is worried about this... (Score:5, Informative)
Canada requires all cars to have electronic immobilizers, so that isn't an issue.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/k... [ctvnews.ca]
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...I take it they don't sell Kia or Hyundai in Canada?
Kias and Hyundais were not built without immobilisers everywhere. There's a reason they were such a big theft target *in the USA*.
Car thefts at the ports (Score:1, Troll)
China prefers if you use their tools. Oh I mean Canada. They make electronics right? Meh, everyone knows Chinese mafia runs Canada right?
Replacements (Score:2)
Flipper Zero does what other devices can do. You can build something close with an Arduino and a few off-the-shelf shields. Flipper Zero makes it convenient to do a lot of different things with one device, but if you just want to steal a car there are a lot of other gadgets that can do the same thing for less money.
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IIRC Flipper Zero is open source, so you can build your own. If not, there are definitely open source ones out there.
Flipper does lower the bar considerably though, and turns it into a game.
Missing the Point: Security Theatre (Score:4, Informative)
Re: Missing the Point: Security Theatre (Score:2)
Some Canadians are getting it.
Ban legal guns to reduce gang violence (despite majority of gun violence already committed with illegal firearms)
Ban flipper zero to reduce car thefts after man tracked his stolen car to a port and police refused to do anything (despite flipper zero etc. not being the problem, catch and release, open immigration, economic pressure caused by high taxes etc.)
Ban scary truckers from assembly and invoke the emergency act to clear them (despite not actually addressing the peaceful a
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...and the whole stolen car "crisis" is a purely manufactured issue to distract Canadians from poor governmental performance on the part of the LPC, and a total lack of any real policies on the part of the CPC
Only dedicated hacking devices? (Score:2)
Any general-purpose computer with the right interface hardware can do what a Flipper Zero does, if not so conveniently...are those safe? Or will they ban general-purpose computers with certain software as well?
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They're working on it. Or at least, ban all communication not pre-approved by the Lib-NDP alliance.
Communications must all be submitted for pre-approvals.
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This is kind of silly. The objectionable part of the flipper zero* is the receive and transmit hardware that operates on the same frequencies and with the same protocols as things like car key fobs. "General-purpose computers" don't have that hardware.
It's illegal to drive an operational tank, with an operational gun, around. A general purpose automobile with the right "interface hardware" can do what a tank does, if not so conveniently... are those safe? Or will "they" ban general purpose automobiles too?
*
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The specialized hardware in this case is an SDR transceiver, which isn't really that specialized - they're widely available off the shelf now and many consumer phones have a multipurpose wireless communications chipset that increasingly resembles one.
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It is not even an SDR, it is has TI CC1101 RF chip dealing with the modulation. (It also have RFID, NFC, Bluetooth, hardware capable of 802.15.4 (but no software),IR and iButton support in one device...)
(The CC1101 is quite capable, but is limited to the modulation that it supports (e.g. no PSK)
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Sure, and you could add one to a laptop, but you'd have to specifically do that. Laptops don't come with them. I can add a full on pirate FM radio station to my laptop, with off the shelf components, but it's a bit of a different process than ordering a colourful little toy on Amazon. The rf chips in phones are very heavily restricted specifically so you can't use them for shenanigans.
We have lots of laws that are designed to prevent dumbasses from casually hurting themselves and others. Flippers package al
So instead of fixing the problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of forcing car makers to make their insecure crap secure, let's ban a tool that can be used to expose their shabby security.
That's like making journalism illegal because it could expose corruption among politicians.
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That's like making journalism illegal because it could expose corruption among politicians.
They are also trying to do that [www.cbc.ca], by forcing broadcasting and streaming of approved content. Which just resulted in a bunch of stations to close down [globalnews.ca].
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That's like making journalism illegal because it could expose corruption among politicians.
Trudeau is the guy who prorogued Parliament to stop a parliamentary committee that was probing government corruption and tried to bribe the media using Facebook's and Google's money. What makes you think he wouldn't be willing to do that if he could?
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That's like making journalism illegal because it could expose corruption among politicians.
Which reminds me: When is the Julian Assange hearing?
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Probably gonna be held right after the journalists currently serving time in some Sibirian Gulag for writing against the Czar get theirs.
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What year is this?
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Right now [aljazeera.com].
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It says he is awating trial facing charges of espionage, not serving time, and also nowhere near Siberia.
That the trial can last for up to a year, and if he is found guilty, he will be exchanged for Russian spies that have been caught.
Is that really comparable to a journalist having been held without charges for five years and counting at a torture prison built specifically for the IRA? (Sure, that's not on the same level as Abu Ghraib or Gunatanamo Bay or Diego Garcia, but still.) After having been under
Politicians aren't really known for tech or logic (Score:2)
They are all about populism and votes, and talking to the non savvy people out there.
Any tech worth their salt knows that these devices have existed for over 10 years.
It's essentially an Arduino, or just your basic microcontroller devkit, add a Mifare chip, an bluetooth/wifi chip, and a couple of transmitter modules and you have your basic Flipper.
Flipper Zero is super expensive, sold out all the time and resold for 4 times the price, because it's made popular by being that edgy hacking tool that appeals to
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This is not populism This is nanny state left wing authoritarianism, the same fascists who froze bank accounts of truckers for protesting ridiculous mask/vaccine mandates, on full display once again.
Prime Minister Blackface is a fascist. And I bought a Flipper from the manufacturer less than a month ago without any issues or delay. Granted, it was ripped open in a very obvious manner so they could peek inside by US Postal Inspectors (also fascists).
Might have been smuggling drugs inside it, I guess. How much fentanyl might fit in one?
Maybe.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Banning the device is a flawed idea (Score:2, Informative)
idiots! (Score:2)
now people want flippers in canada. ever hear of the streisand effect? perhaps regulators would have been better to hold car manufacturers to higher standards. but it is way easier to tell consumers no.
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now people want flippers in canada. ever hear of the streisand effect?
Indeed I think I will now learn to build my own. So I can help other people build their own as well.
Some background ... (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the background on this topic.
Car theft has become an increasing problem in the past few years.
The area affected is the corridor between Toronto and Montreal and urban areas around them.
There are many aspects to this, including the technology part where thieves use an antenna to connect to a keyfob that is inside the house to unlock the car, the law enforcement part, the justice system aspect, and then the export of these vehicles from the port of Montreal to west Africa, UAE, and elsewhere.
Some thefts were actually carjackings caught on surveillance cameras.
SUVs are the main cars targeted (CR-V, Lexus SUV, and so on ...)
There is definitely an organized crime aspect in all this. Those who do the theft are not the ones doing the paperwork at the port and allowing all those cars to be exported.
Global crime rings target Canada for car thefts [globalnews.ca]
Yesterday, there was an auto theft summit [msn.com] where the RCMP (FBI equivalent of sorts), and OPP (Ontario's police force), justice and other ministers to discuss what to do about this.
Re:Some background ... (Score:4, Funny)
It Gets Better... (Score:4, Informative)
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I think he should be publicly flogged.
Pointless gesture (Score:2)
Cool, I almost bought one of these, but canceled the order after realizing a) it ships with crippled firmware that blocks certain bands, and while it's trivial to replace it with non-stock firmware to unlock these frequencies, b) it's still just a stupid (and very overpriced) toy. But they have some good marketing for such a niche product, I'll give you that.
I wonder what they'll do about all the rip-offs you can buy on Ali Express for $20 that do the same thing.
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Organized crime is not the majority of crime. And when a device lowers the bar to crime to the level a meth head can order on amazon... yeah ban it. Or at least regulate it like lock picks to just proven IT specialists. Raise the bar so there is at least some effort involved.
Spray paint requires an ID to buy. This should too.
Re: Pointless gesture (Score:2)
Flipper zero isnâ(TM)t the majority of crime either. Most âoecar securityâ related tasks being used by this thing are geeks cloning their own keys.
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> Or at least regulate it like lock picks
> Spray paint requires an ID to buy
Really? That sounds terrible.
Many places aren't so totalitarian.
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Freedumb is worse.
See the 3x more people dead per capita from covid than pretty much any other country except maybe china.
See the rampant gun violence and school shootings.
See the Motorcycle Fatality Rates Due to Head Injuries are Lower in States with Helmet Laws.
See the "The 2021 data show that seat belt use is at 90.4%, and unrestrained occupant deaths currently account for 50% of deaths. "
See the required use of immobilizers in Canada preventing nearly all the Kia thefts rampant in USA
See every person in
Brilliant! (Score:2)
Ban lock-picks instead of mandating stronger locks or making lock manufacturers liable for their shoddy products.
Iâ(TM)m sure the black hats will follow the law and not steal stuff protected by shoddy locks.
A Story As Old As Time (Score:5, Insightful)
"Oh no, cars can have their security bypassed by a simple computer and a radio transmitter. We should probably tell the manufacturers they need to make their security smarter."
"Nah, fuckit, shoot the messenger."
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They can be, but you need more than just a record and playback.
You need to record and block the car from detecting the signal. Then, if they press it again, you play the first one back and record their new one while blocking it. Now you have the next code that will unlock their door.
This is all moot, of course, since those unlock codes won't start the car. It's a load of BS because they don't want to actually tell their campaign funders "you have to fix this" when there is a handy scapegoat.
It is never the
better option (Score:2)
fix the damn cars
Another tech-caused issue (Score:3)