Windows 11 Users Herded Toward 23H2 Via Automatic Upgrade (theregister.com) 87
Windows 11 users still clinging to the past are to be dragged into a bright, 23H2-shaped future by Microsoft, whether they want to or not. From a report: Microsoft has added a notification to its Release Health dashboard warning Windows 11 users that it is time for the beatings automatic upgrades to begin. "We are starting to update eligible Windows 11 devices automatically to version 23H2."
As for what eligible means, according to Microsoft, this is "Windows 11 devices that have reached or are approaching end of servicing." Support for Windows 11 21H2 came to an end last year on October 10, 2023, and version 22H2 is due to end on October 8, 2024. Win 11 23H2 itself will endure until November 11, 2025, or just after the plug gets pulled on Windows 10. The update comes shortly after Microsoft quashed the last of its compatibility holds in Windows 11 23H2, which affected customers attempting to use the Co-pilot preview with multiple monitors. Icons tended to move unexpectedly between monitors.
As for what eligible means, according to Microsoft, this is "Windows 11 devices that have reached or are approaching end of servicing." Support for Windows 11 21H2 came to an end last year on October 10, 2023, and version 22H2 is due to end on October 8, 2024. Win 11 23H2 itself will endure until November 11, 2025, or just after the plug gets pulled on Windows 10. The update comes shortly after Microsoft quashed the last of its compatibility holds in Windows 11 23H2, which affected customers attempting to use the Co-pilot preview with multiple monitors. Icons tended to move unexpectedly between monitors.
Herding has never been easy (Score:2)
Just ask these guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
An annual tradition (Score:2)
Engage "do not update" brakes until the guinea pigs have flown.
Joke (Score:5, Insightful)
This forced upgrade for "eligible" systems is a joke. There is no legitimate reason for it. All this will do is force tens of thousands more tons of e-waste into landfills as people chuck perfectly good systems because they've been conditioned to be afraid their machines will collapse if they're not on the latest and greatest pile of shit coming from Microsoft.
I laugh every time I see a movie with people using computers which just work without them being incessantly harassed with ads or notifications or, in the current case, having an "upgrade" forced down their throat.
At this point any time Microsoft says they will no longer support five year old equipment they should be required to properly dispose of the user's equipment, at their own expense. Since they claim it's theirs to do with as they want, they should be the ones to clean up the mess.
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Why would someone throw out a perfectly good computer just because the latest shovelware from redmond won't run on it? I mean just stick with 10, or even 7. there is no real reason to """"upgrade""" to 11 other than some dick from redmond says so.
oh no, they won't get a cunty half baked "AI" copilot to annoy them, how will they ever manage?
what a joke.
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Why would someone throw out a perfectly good computer just because the latest shovelware from redmond won't run on it? I mean just stick with 10, or even 7. there is no real reason to """"upgrade""" to 11 other than some dick from redmond says so. oh no, they won't get a cunty half baked "AI" copilot to annoy them, how will they ever manage?
what a joke.
Cue a billion "security" theater specialists screaming bloody murder about killing babies because only the latest bugfixes are safe from clicking that stupid invoice from the company you never did business with.
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Yeah, you can't really fix stupid. as long as MS allows the user to interact with the computer, someone will find a way to exploit that for financial gain.
Re:Joke (Score:4, Interesting)
Cue a billion "security" theater specialists screaming bloody murder about killing babies
Oh, cute. It's one of "you". You know, the delusional chuckledinks who love to pretend that haxors, etc, are fake news. Speaking as someone who has to deal with your infested garbage spewing spam, playing host to botnets and pretty much everything else out there.... get an urgent grasp on reality. We really don't need you or whatever minsicule molehill you've decided to die on.
Re: Joke (Score:2)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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This might even create a market for the older hardware, if that's the only way you can prevent being upgraded....
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> Why would someone throw out a perfectly good computer just because the latest shovelware from redmond won't run on it? I mean just stick with 10, or even 7.
Chormium no longer supports anything older than Win10. Chromium is used in lots of third party software, not just web browsers, so viable alternatives are not immediately obvious if they exist at all.
If your favorite software - or worse, software that your business relies on - stops supporting your current OS, and the new required OS doesn't support
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MS isn't requiring new hardware for this OS update. At least not according to The Reg anyway.
I'm currently running preview builds on a desktop from 2019 if that tells you anything.
Re:Joke (Score:4, Interesting)
Forget about properly disposing equipment. How about unsupported software is no longer protected by copyright and becomes public domain. Unsupported hardware loses all patents. The purpose of copyright and patents is to enrich society and compensate the inventor not to preserve the revenue stream of the holder.
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Except in this case you're literally proposing 100% of all software become public domain. Few if any developers support outdated releases. It makes perfect sense to say you should be on the most recent version to expect support since that version is the one the support systems are built for and often have fixes in place for various problems on earlier versions.
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Except in this case you're literally proposing 100% of all software become public domain. Few if any developers support outdated releases. It makes perfect sense to say you should be on the most recent version to expect support since that version is the one the support systems are built for and often have fixes in place for various problems on earlier versions.
No. I'm not. If it's not worth the effort to support it's not worth the effort to protect. Why should society offer protection to something that the developers think is obsolete? If it's not worth fixing 7 year old software it's not worth protecting.
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The purpose of copyright and patents is to enrich society and compensate the inventor not to preserve the revenue stream of the holder.
Very few people care and the ones who do, do not see the world the way you see it. Good luck on enforcing your values on those people. You live in a fully corrupted society.
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I don't need to enforce my values onto anybody. If you think it makes sense to buy everything every 3 years that's your choice. I avoid proprietary solutions and choose options that give me control. I avoid companies that don't support their products.
Not a joke (Score:4)
I think Microsoft has, in the past, been too heavy-handed with forcing updates, with the initial release of Windows 10 being the most egregious example. However, in this case, it's a relatively much smaller upgrade from one version of Windows 11 to another. The vast majority of consumers aren't going to notice a difference, and as far as people who might, presumably by now any businesses or power users who do not want this have measures in place to block it. Additionally, Microsoft now lets you roll back feature upgrades for I think 30 days.
As far as legitimate reasons, I would say moving users from an unsupported, unpatched release of the software to a patched release of the software is a valid reason.
Microsoft does do things that would generate e-waste. Automatic upgrades are not one of those things. A much better example of Microsoft generating unnecessary e-waste is the arbitrary requirement for Windows 11 of an 8th generation or newer Intel processor (or AMD equivalent) despite the fact that the OS works just fine without this hardware. They can't even say it's about TPM 2.0 because that's a separate requirement entirely that is tracked on its own; you can even get add-in cards that will provide TPM 2.0 on older systems.
People are plenty likely to abandon hardware that Microsoft says is unsupported; nobody's going to abandon hardware because they didn't receive an upgrade from Windows 11 22H2 to 23H2. Your average consumer doesn't even know what those things mean.
As for the general sentiment from your post and other replies to it that it's completely fine to use unpatched Windows, or that "hackers will get in anyway," a sufficiently determined thief will get into your house even through a locked door, that doesn't mean you should leave your doors open when you leave. Two of the most fundamental aspects of computer security are (a) understanding the kinds of threats you will face given your profile, and (b) minimizing threats you are likely to face by reducing relevant attack surface.
When talking about your average consumer, the vast majority of threats they will face are going to be drive-by attacks from things like malicious ads and malicious documents, these days usually with the end goal of scraping valuable information like credentials and credit cards or installing some kind of crypto miner. These are typically very low effort programs and target low-hanging fruit to get the most people with the least effort. This means targeting recently disclosed exploits that are well-documented, easy to reproduce, and have a high severity factor but that many people haven't patched yet. Staying on top of patching will outright block many of these threats simply because the exploits they use have already been patched on your system. It's not a silver bullet in and of itself, but it's one aspect of good security.
For your typical consumer, I'd say the important things to push are install an adblocker, keep your browser up to date, keep your OS (which probably includes Defender) up to date, and basic common-sense stuff like don't run untrusted files. So yeah, I don't think patching is a joke here, even for end users, any more than I think locking your door is a joke just because a determined thief can get through it anyway. It's not about blocking all threats, it's about a comprehensive plan for blocking most of the most likely threats.
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I laugh every time I see a movie with people using computers which just work without them being incessantly harassed with ads or notifications or, in the current case, having an "upgrade" forced down their throat.
Yeah I've been using Windows since 3.1 and I have no idea wtf you're ranting about here. These days the only time I'm even aware that my computer has an update is when I go to shut it down. Now in the corporate world, yes I have had to deal with annoying pop-ups from shit like SCCM telling me I have an update. Yeah I know this is /. so its cool to just automatically hate on Microsoft, but in my opinion your hyperbole is out of touch with reality and undermines much of your point.
So what is bad about this update? (Score:2)
One thing I had trouble extracting from the summary, is just what negative impact there will be for some users having to take in this update.
I am personally also against updates you cannot block, but it would be nice to know why a person who had been updated might be upset, or potential issues that could occur so those of us who help others with computer issues know what kinds of problems to look out for.
Re:So what is bad about this update? (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing I had trouble extracting from the summary, is just what negative impact there will be for some users having to take in this update.
I am personally also against updates you cannot block, but it would be nice to know why a person who had been updated might be upset, or potential issues that could occur so those of us who help others with computer issues know what kinds of problems to look out for.
Point to the latest Microsoft Windows Update that did NOT create a massive backlash in the userbase. Excuse me while I don't hold my breath waiting.
They'll flip user preferences to defaults everywhere they can. They'll "upgrade" bits of included software to be less usable and more "have you tried whizbang report-home version?" They'll essentially shit all over the user experience because that's what they want to do, and tell you it's for your own good. Anybody not expecting that, or worse, expecting positive outcomes, is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
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Point to the latest Microsoft Windows Update that did NOT create a massive backlash in the userbase. Excuse me while I don't hold my breath waiting.
Literally all of them. Windows 11 has barely changed. The extent of the "massive backlash" was "oh noes a screen flashed up asking me to change a browser setting and I had to hit skip. Oh woes me!" Actually the latest update drops a copilot button the task bar that I had to right click to get rid of. I know man my life is shattered by this revelation. How horrendous. /s
You don't like updates, by you massively (this time correct use of the word) overestimate how many fucks normal users give about this.
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All 5 times i tried it, i ended up reverting to W10, I'm not doing it again.
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Start menu hasn't changed since the first release of Windows 11
Context menu hasn't changed since the first release of Windows 11
Why would you want AI features? I don't know. Don't use them. Again it took me a whole of 5 seconds to completely eliminate it from view. No OS in the world provides exclusively only features for your personal use, unless you are running LFS.
Windows doesn't break itself, that takes a special kind of PEBCAK. It hums along just fine.
All 5 times i tried it, i ended up reverting to W10, I'm not doing it again.
Cool story bro. Completely off topic and nothing to
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Point to the latest Microsoft Windows Update that did NOT create a massive backlash in the userbase. Excuse me while I don't hold my breath waiting.
Literally all of them. Windows 11 has barely changed. The extent of the "massive backlash" was "oh noes a screen flashed up asking me to change a browser setting and I had to hit skip. Oh woes me!" Actually the latest update drops a copilot button the task bar that I had to right click to get rid of. I know man my life is shattered by this revelation. How horrendous. /s
You don't like updates, by you massively (this time correct use of the word) overestimate how many fucks normal users give about this.
I've literally fought my system, which I upgraded to professional for more "control" for months trying to turn off auto-updates. Still, every couple weeks, I get a switch to "Shut down and update" or "Reboot and update" on the shut-down option screen. And every damn time it's a lot more than just browser bullshit intereference. Those of us that want control of our systems are tired of being forced by Redmond to bow to their whims. You being fine with it doesn't make my take irrelevant. It just means you enj
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I've literally fought my system
You're not a normal computer user. Normal computer users don't fight their systems they just use them.
Anyway I for one am thankful you weren't able to turn off automatic updates. It's bad enough being surrounded by people who refused to get a COVID vaccine, it's good to see at least some sense is forced on your despite your attempt at self harm.
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Normal computer users don't fight Microsoft's systems they just use them.
FTFY.
Anyway I for one am thankful you weren't able to turn off automatic updates. It's bad enough being surrounded by people who refused to get a COVID vaccine, it's good to see at least some sense is forced on your despite your attempt at self harm.
So not installing updates on a computer is the same as intentionally coughing on produce at a grocery store during a global pandemic to you? I think you're the one who needs to be protected from self-harm not the GP.....
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Do you remember the old Saturday Night Live skit about the old AT&T where the cash line is: We're AT&T, we don't care because we don't have to. Same with Microsoft. Splitting AT&T did jack and shit. We won't even try to split Microsoft since it is a fully compliant ally to the NSA. We are in the end game now, Democracy will fall.
Re:So what is bad about this update? (Score:4, Insightful)
I updated a while ago to that version. None of my settings were reverted, but the stupid screen asking if you want the shit settings back to default or if you wanted to keep using what you had set came up on the first start after the update.
The only major gripe I have so far is that for the last few months some icons on the taskbar just go transparent until you focus and minimize them when using full screen applications or switching between virtual desktops. Including Microsofts own applications. Shit has been reported an "a solution is being tested" for several monthly update cycles already.
It's an annoyance, but not any kind of showstopper bug.... but it would sure be nice if they fixed the UI shit they fucked up. This issue, and the butt ugly explorer ribbon that you can't hide any fucking more.
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Windows 11 is a lot worse than Windows 10 at handling headphones, from what I've seen. You plug some in and instead of just working, some apps don't get the memo and sometimes the system doesn't figure out that you did anything at all.
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Nothing, I updated to it a while ago on my gaming machine, works just the same as 22h2 with the few added bells and whistle that I turned off (Co-pilot, Dynamic Lighting).
Gedankenexperiment (Score:1)
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Depends on country. In the UK, it may constitute a violation of the Computer Misuse Act, especially if something stops working as a result (ie: actual damage to operations).
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https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-g... [cps.gov.uk]
This is the relevant clause: Section 3: Unauthorised Acts with intent to impair, or with recklessness as to impairing the operation of a computer
Examples of this are deliberate or reckless impairment of a computer's operation, preventing or hindering access to computer material by a legitimate user or impairing the operation or reliability of computer-held material. The offender must know that the act was unauthorised.
*Examples of this are deliberate or reckless impairment o
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Doesn't matter. The computer misuse act refers to the owner of the computer, not the owner of the software.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk... [legislation.gov.uk]
This unquestionably constitutes reckless unauthorised access.
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My work computer got bitlockered today by an errant W11 update.
Meanwhile all my personal Linux boxes are running smoothly. Illustrates the issue in the clearest way possible, and why MSFT ultimately loses all business from those who know enough to do something about it.
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Bit locker literally does not automatically enable without a key backed up somewhere, and is very difficult to do so even if you wanted it. For most people their bitlocker key is backed up to their Microsoft accounts. It's not just an AAD thing.
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It doesn't tell you or give you the option though. If you install W11 and login with your Microsoft account (something you are essentially forced to do) then Bitlocker is on, your recovery key is in the cloud, but nothing is ever mentioned.
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1. Encryption should be optional, but recommended.
2. The key needs to be given, not generated, look at LUKS for instance.
3. Changing UEFI / BIOS settings shouldn't brick the system.
4. Updates shouldn't be able to brick the system.
5. The keys backup is not made easily available, or to a known location.
6. The encryption is unstable, which is the biggest flaw.
7. Microsoft makes very little attempt to educate or explain BitLocker.
8. Oh, and this is the be
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None of my Funtoo systems get an update unless I specifically apply it. That's the difference.
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Bitlocker means full disk encryption and TPM. You can get it to work on Linux, but it isn't fun and even a minor update can get you 'bitlockered' out of your computer. Oh, and no decent tooling whatsoever from the systemd folks on it.
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There is no reason except greed, incompetence and disdain for the customer to have system-breaking updates at all. You would think that after almost 50 years, MS knows how to do updates. Not so. Windows is indeed not for anybody that is a real professional. I use it for gaming (too lazy to configure it on Linux) and where I am forced to (MS Office) and that is it. At this time, Linux is a lot easier to administrate and keep alive than the MS crap. Obviously, it is also massively more reliable and secure.
Oh,
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There are simply some professional level programs that do not run ( well or at all ) under Linux.
If they did, I would have zero use for a Windows based system.
No, there is not an open source solution for many of them that perform as well regardless of what some like to claim.
( Examples: Zbrush, Substance Painter, Rhino 3D, Keyshot, Cubase and the entire Adobe Suite )
Professional music software.
A lot of content creation software.
Cad / engineering software.
Etc.
As a result, I'm stuck with the Bill Gates Franke
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Agreed, see my uses cases as well. That crap eventually needs to stop.
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TL;DR: The professional user wanting to wait until BSA software works flawlessly under Wine / Linux before making the switch is going to be
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I'll continue to say: “Windows is not for professionals”
You can say what you want, the world largely runs on Windows just fine. You may not be able to figure out how to use it, leave it to the billion other people who have no problem with it.
There is no defendable reason why you would have to commit a massive update, that is system breaking, automatically without user consent.
Agree. Fortunately there's no system breaking update here. That's all in your head.
Take a page out of the Linux playbook, updates are optional
No thanks. Linux survives largely due to having a small user base and being a low value target. The last thing we need is the combination of millions of additional users combined with your stupid attitude that updates are optional or that you
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I'll continue to say: “Windows is not for professionals”
You can say what you want, the world largely runs on Windows just fine.
We had an entire department employed just to keep the windows machines running, IIRC around 40 people for a 1000 people organization. They were fixing windows computer all day long. Yah that was just fine. Never a problem A mere 5 million dollars - with a manager and supervisor to save money on those overpriced Macs.
Many of the managers shifted over to Macs because they wanted a computer that works when they boot it.
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1. It's completely unstable, it crashes all the time and needs N reboots.
2. Systems just randomly break, Sound, Notification, WSL, etc...
3. It's slow.... not just I n
kb5034441 (Score:2)
Herded as in "sheep"? (Score:1)
Makes sense. Since Microsoft _still_ has not found out after frigging 48 years how to do reliable and robust updates and are still _routinely_ breaking user systems, nobody but sheep would be willing to install their "updated" sight unseen. Contrast that with my Debian and Gentoo systems where I have had one minor Problem in 20 years with automatic updates every 3 days (Debian) and zero in 3 years with the same (Gentoo). Oh, and on Gentoo they warn you not to do this. Still works a hell of a lot better than
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100%.
A little over 5 years ago, when it came time to build a new desktop machine, the number of hours/days lost to recovering broken VMs, lost files, jacked up drivers, etc., due to Microsoft updates was the deciding factor in making the move to Linux. I chose Mint because I wanted simple install experience and a familiar GUI layout. I haven't regretted it once. I run Windows (various versions) in VMs if I need to for software development, but the host is Linux.
That worked out so well that, when a Window
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Why people put up with Microsoft's antics, I can't understand.
I suspect a form of Stockholm syndrome. Note how my comment got modded down. Too many people cannot admit being wrong and instead prefer to get punished more by their bad decisions.
Windows 11 users still clinging to the past :o (Score:1)
You can evade this upgrade (Score:2)
You can evade this upgrade, as I found out by chance. I dual boot Debian and Windows, and the original Windows I had was 10 and I installed it with Secure Boot disabled and kept it that way. I later upgraded via Windows Update to 11 and that worked fine. However I noticed that I could not get recent updates. They would download but always fail to install. I went into the BIOS and enabled Secure Boot and then I was able to update to the newest version of 11 via a downloaded ISO image, and now the PC upg
Patches Stopped 5 Mo. Ago for 21h2 (Score:5, Informative)
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Now the lack of security patches still will remain on the (unqualified) machines that had forced a Win 11 upgrade to 21h2. Using registry keys, you can still reinstall to 23h2, and likely get two more years of patches.
Using Linux is much less of a hassle.
The FUD remains strong (Score:2)
...around these here parts. Edgelords and knuckle-draggers everywhere.
This is the last straw! (Score:2)
I was reading through posts looking for somebody saying that "this is the last straw, I'm switching to Linux!" But all I found was one post from somebody who is already on Linux. Where is the outrage?
Re: This is the last straw! (Score:2)
The people still capable of outrage have already become outraged by Windows 11 and moved to something else.
I am only disdainful. Windows is pathetic and it is irritating to have to use it at work, but I can still do my job on Windows 11 which for some reason we are allowing to self install instead of running 10 LTSC like sensible people.
Struggling to understand (Score:3)
The summary doesn't really talk about what problem is present in 23H2 that is worthy of grave concern.
In general, it's a good security practice to stay updated. If you don't like Windows updates, you probably shouldn't be on Windows in the first place.
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My work PC says that 23H2 was installed. Everything seems to be working 'normally'.
What calamity are we supposed to be avoiding, exactly?
(running 11 on 'unsupported' hardware aside... My XP/Vista/7-era boxes are still on various strains of Windows 10 when they're not booting Debian)
Snapshotted VMs solve that for me. (Score:2)
Windows runs software many businesses require so it's not going away any time soon, but if you want backup against updates you did not desire (and a near-instant way to restore to a previous state) snapshotting a VM is easy even for casual techie users.
Linux makes a fine host for most OS one might care to emulate. I keep Windows confined to offline VMs only allowed online as needed. That's worked for many years.
Gaming PCs that need bare metal can be reimaged to a clean state easily enough.
No Means No #YesAllWomen (Score:2)
Non-consensual updates.
What's the problem? (Score:2)
Strange way to put... (Score:2)
That's a strange way to put a routine, expected update. "Whether they like it or not."
People have two choices (Score:2)
Choice One: Have true ownership of your computer.
Choice Two: Install / keep Windows on it, and pay the toll for Redmond to do anything they damn well please short of physically modifying or stealing the hardware.
If you run Mirosoft (Score:2)
Easy to switch to W10 LTSC 2021 (Score:2)
LTSC gets updates to 2027.
Finding .iso images with the correct checksum and safe activation methods is no big deal.