Honda To Spend $11 Billion On Four EV Factories In North America (arstechnica.com) 137
Jonathan M. Gitlin reports Ars Technica: Honda announced today that it will spend $11 billion to expand its electric vehicle manufacturing presence in North America. The Japanese automaker already has a number of factories in the US, Mexico, and Canada, and it's this last one that will benefit from the expansion, with four EV-related plants planned for Ontario. Honda says it has begun evaluating requirements for what it's calling an "innovative and environmentally responsible" EV factory and a standalone EV battery plant in Alliston, Ontario, which is already home to Honda's two existing Canadian manufacturing facilities.
Additionally, the automaker wants to set up another two sites as joint ventures. One will be a plant that processes cathode active materials and their precursors -- the various elements like nickel and manganese that are combined with lithium in lithium-ion batteries -- set up in a partnership with POSCO Future M, a South Korean battery material and chemical company. (POSCO is already working with General Motors on another joint venture battery precursor material facility in Betancour, Quebec, that is supposed to become operational in 2026.) A second joint venture will be a partnership with Asahi Kasei, which will manufacture battery separators, the material that keeps the anode and cathode apart. The locations of these two joint ventures have not yet been announced.
Honda thinks it will be able to start making EVs in Ontario in 2028 and says the assembly plant will have the capacity to build 240,000 EVs per year. Meanwhile, the battery plant is planned to have an annual output of 36 GWh.
Additionally, the automaker wants to set up another two sites as joint ventures. One will be a plant that processes cathode active materials and their precursors -- the various elements like nickel and manganese that are combined with lithium in lithium-ion batteries -- set up in a partnership with POSCO Future M, a South Korean battery material and chemical company. (POSCO is already working with General Motors on another joint venture battery precursor material facility in Betancour, Quebec, that is supposed to become operational in 2026.) A second joint venture will be a partnership with Asahi Kasei, which will manufacture battery separators, the material that keeps the anode and cathode apart. The locations of these two joint ventures have not yet been announced.
Honda thinks it will be able to start making EVs in Ontario in 2028 and says the assembly plant will have the capacity to build 240,000 EVs per year. Meanwhile, the battery plant is planned to have an annual output of 36 GWh.
Honda should listen better (Score:5, Funny)
I just can't get over how those successful, experienced automobile manufacturers at Honda keep failing to heed the advice of slashdotters that know better. It's not like we say these things just because it aligns with our political views!
Re: Honda should listen better (Score:4, Informative)
You think a short-term blip caused by EVs dropping in price is âno marketâ? You think the fearmongering article about Ford was a truthful view of EV manufacturing as a long-term investment?
Read up on the Gartner Hype Cycle. Weâ(TM)ve just hit the Trough of Disillusionment. Honda is investing to stay relevant in the 2030â(TM)s. Anyone who doesnâ(TM)t shift will disappear by 2035.
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Re: Honda should listen better (Score:2)
Eventually Tesla turned a profit. They too didn't initially make enough money to offset startup costs, but eventually those costs got covered.
Ford is both dealing with legitimate startup costs and perhaps engaging in Hollywood accounting to shuffle expense where it signs to their financial strategies (maybe tax breaks on losses related to electrification or something, or bundling broader expense problems together under an understandable silo). As the supply chain stabilizes and the fixed costs are already
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Yes, let's continue to heat up the atmosphere and the oceans until we fry ourselves off the planet...brilliant!
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And that every automaker loses $130k or something for every one they sell?
Not *every* automaker loses money like that on EVs...
Re:They have no choice (Score:5, Interesting)
Most Japanese brands were late to the EV game, with the exception of Nissan. I think some of them are still hoping that hybrids remain available for decades to come.
Honda's first EV, the Honda e, was really good. Okay, small battery, but everything else was great. Top notch tech, the best HMI of any car on the market, and the vehicle itself really took advantage of the EV drivetrain with a tiny turning circle and well tuned suspension.
Their second one, the confusingly named e:Ny1, is pretty pedestrian, if you will excuse the pun. It has barely any EV features. Bizarrely the regen is both weak and resets to off after a few minutes of driving. It's a nice enough car in other ways, but priced ridiculously high and already massively discounted. Why they ditched all the good work they did with the Honda e remains a mystery.
There is the up-coming Honda and Sony collaboration, but I expect it will be over-priced and not particularly great.
Toyota's BZ4X or whatever it's called is apparently decent. Some initial software issues that limited charging speed were quickly fixed. Mazda has one EV but it's not very good. Mitsubishi had one but never developed it, and now has none. Suzuki, Daihatsu, and several others don't seem to have any EVs at all. Apparently a lot of the issue is down to their suppliers in Japan not developing suitable EV drivetrain components and not wanting to rely on China like the rest of the world does. Hard times for Japan's auto industry.
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Most Japanese brands were late to the EV game, with the exception of Nissan. I think some of them are still hoping that hybrids remain available for decades to come.
PHEVs will remain popular with the 85% of humans that live in non-developed regions where you can't count on reliable charging stations being available every 30 kilometres and they may just be around for decades to come. ICE garages in these places will make good coin from repairing their ICE power trains, little used most of the time because using the electric power train is far cheaper to operate for the short distance travel these cars will be used for most of the time, particularly if you install your
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Interestingly developing nations seem to be some of the most keen on EVs. China, for example, has a growing middle class and they are buying a lot of electric vehicles. The convenience of being able to charge at home and from solar is attractive, as well as the lower maintenance costs and lower pollution.
In China's case they also have good public transport, so a 150km range isn't such a big deal. Batteries that size have reached price parity with ICE drivetrains.
It's fairly essential that we encourage and h
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Downside is that if someone or something takes out their power grid, their transportation infrastructure is rendered inoperative.
You are aware that gas pumps run on electricity, right?
It's also a lot easier to generate your own electricity than it is to refine your own gasoline.
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The only cases PHEV's don't rule would seem to be 1) a city car that never goes far (I have a couple of these and will never buy another gas car of this type); or 2) a truck that just hauls stuff long distances every day, since the battery in the PHEV would only be blunting fuel use a little.
Re:They have no choice (Score:5, Interesting)
Where did you get your very exciting statistic about 85% of humans living in non-developed regions from?
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To make it relevant it would need to be 85% of people in the car market living in non-developed regions. So, 85% of people in developed economies living in non-developed regions. Sounds legit.
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More than half the world’s population is urban
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How does that make any sense?
Re: They have no choice (Score:2)
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BMW make them. The i3 has an ICE that can charge the battery, and let you limp home. It's not really worth it though, just get a bigger battery. There are plenty of chargers, and if you run out you call the breakdown service and they come out with a mobile rapid charger.
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BMW's i3 has had a "range extender" option since it launched, which is essentially one of their motorcycle engines turned into an electrical generator and a small fuel tank for it.
I'm a little shocked nobody else has followed that trail.
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Most Japanese brands were late to the EV game, with the exception of Nissan.
Nissan half-assed their battery, so arguably it was a compliance vehicle. Hell, I was interested in test driving a Leaf in 2019 (pre-Covid) just for shits and giggles, and my local dealer actually straight up said "We don't have any of them. You don't want to buy a Leaf, they're crap."
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I had a couple of Leafs, they were good cars. They would have been better with active battery thermal management. At the time it wasn't clear it was needed, but with hindsight...
They aren't a bad buy now, heavily discounted.
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Numerous US states are going to ban new ICE sales , eg california by 2035. Ditto in the EU and UK also by 2035.
If it wasn't for the political intervention EVs would still be a very niche purchase and Tesla wouldn't be anything like the size of the company it is now.
You can argue whether its good or bad but its the way it is now.
No, one can't argue whether it is good or bad because banning ICE wherever possible is good like getting rid of obsolete technology always is. It's like having the choice between an air-conditioning system that slowly poisons everybody in the building every minute you run it and one that doesn't. Nobody in their right mind would get their panties in a twist if the former type of air-con was banned. Only a complete imbecile poisons his or her own living space to make an asinine political statement and let's
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"good like getting rid of obsolete technology always is"
Technology is only obsolete when its mooted replacement is better. EVs in their current form are not better than ICEs from an end user perspective.
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Technology is only obsolete when its mooted replacement is better. EVs in their current form are not better than ICEs from an end user perspective.
They are if the end user can charge at home and aren't if they can't.
The intelligent thing to do would have been to mandate charger installation on new construction or any significant remodel or electrical system upgrade, years ago. But we can't agree to do things intelligently because we have to fight with each other over whether corporations have a right to make a profit. (They don't have one written into the law, but they seem to have a de facto one in that they can buy protectionist laws.)
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Ultimately, the whole system needs to be looked at from the viewpoint of anything else but short term profits, if one wants a cohesive whole. I can name a number of things which only the government can address:
Standardization of chargers. What would be ideal is to just plug the charger in, and walk off. No need for apps, no varying rates, no tons of hoops to jump through. Just plug in, check the display about how much a charge to 100% will cost, and cost per minute, done. At a gas pump, this is very ea
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Fuck that and fuck fascism.
The interesting thing about that statement is that it's the fascists that have brought us to this point where we have all these highly polluting coal plants.
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Why the fuck should I put an EV charger (that I will never use) out front just because I finished my basement?
I don't understand. Is someone forcing you to install an EV charger at your home?
I can understand mandating a 50A 240V outdoor outlet near the driveway or in the garage for new home builds, but who is making you retrofit a charger?
Or are you just randomly making up things to rage against?
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I don't understand. Is someone forcing you to install an EV charger at your home?
I can understand mandating a 50A 240V outdoor outlet near the driveway or in the garage for new home builds, but who is making you retrofit a charger?
Or are you just randomly making up things to rage against?
Maybe you should have bothered to take the time to read the post I was responding to, which stated:
The intelligent thing to do would have been to mandate charger installation on new construction or any significant remodel or electrical system upgrade, years ago.
Re:They have no choice (Score:5, Insightful)
People said the same about horses being replaced by ICE vehicles ("horses can make more horses and that's a trick that tractors never learned"; LPs being replaced by CDs ('digital music always has steps and we as audiophiles can hear them'); bricks being replaced by smartphones ('my battery lasts all week'); watches being replaced by smart watches (ditto re batteries), etc etc
You, and lots of other consumers, may value vroom-vroom noises, the ability to tow three tons of kit and five minute refuels on long journeys more highly than silence, lack of vibration, instant acceleration, proportionate throttle response, no nasty smells, and the ability to charge at home, but I'm willing to bet quite a lot of money that ever more people will prefer the latter over the former, especially as upfront costs come down
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More to the point, it's unsustainable to just let anyone do anything just because they want to. There's a broad range of behaviors which fall into that non-category, and some of them are fine because they're not hurting anyone and some of them aren't because they are. Right to swing fist, end of my nose, etc etc.
I enjoy vroom vroom noises myself but I also appreciate that there are more important issues at hand than my own selfish gratification.
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More to the point, it's unsustainable to just let anyone do anything just because they want to.
That's called freedom, and there are a lot of us who will fight to keep what little is left of it.
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People said the same about horses being replaced by ICE vehicles ("horses can make more horses and that's a trick that tractors never learned"; LPs being replaced by CDs ('digital music always has steps and we as audiophiles can hear them'); bricks being replaced by smartphones ('my battery lasts all week'); watches being replaced by smart watches (ditto re batteries), etc etc
You, and lots of other consumers, may value vroom-vroom noises, the ability to tow three tons of kit and five minute refuels on long journeys more highly than silence, lack of vibration, instant acceleration, proportionate throttle response, no nasty smells, and the ability to charge at home, but I'm willing to bet quite a lot of money that ever more people will prefer the latter over the former, especially as upfront costs come down
If electric cars are oh-so-much better why do you need ICE bans to force people to buy them? Oh it's because they're actually expensive shit, and I know it, you know it, I know that you know, the politicians know it too, etc. and you're just getting snarky about "vroom vroom noises" to compensate.
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I mean, I’ve literally put my money where my mouth is and bought 4 EVs so far, and the experience has been excellent each and every time. Sono.
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"People said the same about horses being replaced by ICE vehicles"
Cars were far superior to horses in every way except they can't refuel themselves. EVs are not superior to ICE for most use cases and you can make silly jokes about vroom vroom but it just proves you're a kid who doesn't drive distance much if at all.
" highly than silence, lack of vibration,"
Newsflash - above 30mph most of the in car noise is from the tyres and airflow around it. If you drove you'd know.
Now run along and play with your lego T
Re:They have no choice (Score:4, Insightful)
That is not true. Cars were often inferior until a lot of public money was invested in making lots of better roads.
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Of three things that could be called childish: thinking a car is better because of the sound it makes, calling that sound vroom-vroom, or getting in a snit because someone called that sound vroom-vroom, the latter is comfortably the most childish.
Your powers of deduction have failed you and you were confidently wrong, just like my annoying 14 year old nephew: I’m 50, not a kid.
And “newsflash” — if you want to prove you’re terribly mature and not at all childish like moi, then u
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Going to nitpick here a bit because I can.
Smart and dumb phones haven't been different tech for years and years. They are all ARM MCU based things with colour LCD or OLED screens and flash memory. The difference is software and usually smart phones have higher spec parts. Smart phones have more sensors, though that varies within smartphones too. Dumb phones usually have more buttons.
But it hasn't really been one tech replacing another as such. Plus dumb phones are still selling reasonably well to people who
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The only shortcoming... literally the only one... of EVs at this point is the charging infrastructure. If the muskrat had, instead of pissing away $44B so he could have no limits to his shitposting on the internet equivalent of the mens' room graffiti at public parks and freeway rest stops, done something productive like buy a gas station chain, tear out all the pumps, and replace them with superchargers; I would already own one... possibly even a Tesla. If I owned my own home instead of renting and could
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Ugh...I fucking HATE roundabouts.
I've seen a couple pop up here and there in a couple states I've been in recently.
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What's wrong with roundabouts? I HATE four way stops and incessant traffic lights!
Roundabouts keep traffic flowing. They're also safer because they introduce an angle so you don't get completely t-boned if you pull in front of somebody.
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With roundabouts...I've seen some with 2 lanes...cars are constantly cutting in front of you and potentially hitting you coming in or deciding at last minute to drive out across the lanes...etc.
I dunno, I just fucking hate them....hope they don't try to catch on here in the US, thankfully I've only seen about 2-3 of them anywhere I've driven.....
Re: They have no choice (Score:2)
Sounds like a lack of experience and training to me.
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Roundabouts work fine for low volumes of traffic, but there are absolutely scenarios where they're just awful when handling moderate-to-high volumes of traffic.
In my old hometown, there was a traffic circle with a lot of traffic flowing east to west, and a small amount of traffic flowing south to north. The small but steady flow of northbound traffic would completely paralyze the much larger westbound flow, since those drivers had to yield to traffic already in the roundabout.
Adding a second lane to the ro
Re: They have no choice (Score:2)
Part time or full time lights can help when the majority of the traffic flows in one direction.
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Well, that pretty much describes none of the average drivers in the US.
Most of the time they're texting on cell phones or swatting at their kids in their SUVs and cutting people off (accidentally or on purpose, often hard to tell).
It's hard enough to get them to actually stop all the time....the circles require a whole other order of driving
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I wouldn't hold my breath or put down heavy bets on that just yet.
With current trends...EV sales dropping, etc....unless the battery tech gets better quickly, and there is more infrastructure....states likely will have to extend those deadlines just out of practicality....
Of course a lot can happen in 10 years, but also, as we've seen....a lot can just NOT happen in 10 years.
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Battery tech *already is* getting better quickly:
- A facelifted EQA saw range improved from 263 to 345 miles
- The facelifted Taycan has a 35% longer range because of a larger battery (in the same space) -- now at 421 miles
- CATL yesterday announced a new LFP battery with a 600 mile range, up from 400 miles in the old version. LFP was confined to things like buses until three years ago. Now it's in mass use for cars
- Findreams (owned by BYD) are on the cusp of launching Blade 2.0 battery packs, also LFP. It
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the move from prismatic to cylindrical enables substantially better densities
When you put a bunch of cylinders in a box you by definition have wasted space.
When you put boxes in a box you can have no wasted space.
How does using cylindrical cells improve density?
Using cylindrical cells also means having to have more parallelism to achieve a specific capacity, which means more connections, which means less reliability. This is a big part of the reason why post-collision Tesla model S batteries are unsafe for RV power storage. You can't reasonably detect bonding faults.
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I dunno how they’ve achieved better densities using cylindrical rather than prismatic. My best guess is it’s due to a better density achievable *within* each cell, even if that comes at the expense of less efficient packing of the cells. In any event, it’s what BMW say has led to greater density, and I can’t see a reason why they’d say an untruth about this, and their engineers will certainly know lots more about this topic than I do.
Re: They have no choice (Score:2)
You can't see why a corporation would say things that aren't true?
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Well not things that are trivially proven false and which just lead to commercial damage to the brand, no.
Think about it: let’s imagine that BMW lied for some reason and claimed that it had got better density through use of cylindrical cells instead of prismatic when in fact the density was worse. That would immediately be obvious when the range was tested on WLTP, or when the car was weighed and found to be heavier, or when the first teardown occurred and the battery was shown to be less dense. So wh
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When and if they improve enough to be equivalent to or better than ICEs, people will buy them willingly. Why try to force people to do so sooner?
It's not progress that free people oppose. It is the initiation of force and/or fraud.
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For the same reason we banned leaded gasoline even though unleaded is superior and when most new cars were already being produced with unleaded-only gas systems. Even when the transition is inevitable, and clearly so, there will always be troglodytes who will kick, scream, and drag their heels to avoid progress for no other reason than to be ornery. Did you know there are people out there who still keep pre-197whatever beaters on the road because having to pass smog is communism and makes the baby jesus c
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Why try to force people to do so sooner?
Indeed this is probably responsible for as much resistance as encouragement in the end. If the government is telling me to do something, I'm going to oppose it because the vast majority of the time nothing good comes from listening to the government.
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In relation to cars, the government tells you:
- You have to buy a car that has headlights, blinkers, seatbelts, and a gazillion other regulated safety features
- You have to drive the car the same side of the road as everyone else, you have to stop at stop signs and at reds, etc
- You have to register your car, have insurance and get a licence, etc
Which of those do you refuse to do on principle because the government is telling you what to do?
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I don’t disagree with that. I guess we just have different perspectives on whether the requirement that all new auto sales be EVs in 20XX is sensible regulation or social engineering. This is something reasonable people can reasonably disagree on.
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1. OK, the reason you didn’t recognise those names is that you’re not much immersed in the world of EVs. The Taycan is Porsche’s four door sedan EV. Obviously, you’ve heard of Porsche. It has been a significant commercial success. The EQA is Mercedes-Benz’s smallest SUV. Obviously, you’ve heard of Mercedes too. CATL and BYD are two of the largest EV battery makers on the planet. They supply batteries for lots of marques you have heard of: CATL supplies BMW, Hyundai, Honda
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I should have said, by the way, that the number of people who can afford a four door Porsche sedan and yet don’t have off-street parking where they can install a charger is a number not materially different from zero. The infrastructure point is true for people buying a Bolt or a Renault 5, but a Taycan that costs at least £90k and possibly as much as £250k(!)? Not so much
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Numerous US states are going to ban new ICE sales , eg california by 2035. Ditto in the EU and UK also by 2035.
If it wasn't for the political intervention EVs would still be a very niche purchase and Tesla wouldn't be anything like the size of the company it is now.
You can argue whether its good or bad but its the way it is now.
You're being modded down because someone disagrees with you politically, but at its root, Honda's decision to build these factories IS an inherently political one. EV adoption is largely being driven by mandate, not by choice. Honda is making a calculated gamble: that the mandates will stay in place, and people will HAVE to buy an EV one day. This will make EV's profitable eventually... as long as the mandates stay in place.
Time will tell if this pays off for them.
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I don't know about the EU ban but the Outcome of the California ban is predictable, huge sales increases for dealerships in neighboring states.
Shortly followed by a huge increase in penalties and taxes for anybody operating one of those things in California. I know it's a dazzlingly beautiful and tempting notion but Milton Friedman was right about one thing, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
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You know, at some point, when life gets tough enough in CA, taxes get just TOO high (and I'd have to think it's close now)....the people will finally wake up and vote the politicians OUT of office that are making their lives so difficult with regards to
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Sure. But what is different now, versus when California used to flip-flop in the past, is that the Republicans have fully embraced the crazy of what used to be the most extreme wing of their party. Not only do they spurn California and Californians; they are actively and overtly malevolent to us, even to the point of re-writing the tax code to harm us as retribution for voting blue in 2016... this despite the fact that, if you check the numbers, they actually have more of their own here than there are eve
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It is the VERY loud, extreme progressive that have pulled the Democrats/Liberals SO far to the left that it makes the Republicans look far right.
The truth is, *most* Americans are still in the middle and wish both end would snap back to "normal" like we had, say up until maybe the 90's?
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ironically, he got the quote for free from someone else and used it to his economic advantage, which rather undermines the meaning of the quote.
https://www.cato.org/blog/who-... [cato.org].
Re:They have no choice (Score:4, Insightful)
No free lunch cuts both ways.
There is no free lunch in letting cars pollute freely. There's a huge knock-on cost which is bourne by everyone.
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Motor vehicle pollution is still a massive cause of illness and death.
Better than massively totally fucking awful can still be pretty terrible.
As for the worrying about poor people, they have lower car ownership and tend to live in cheaper places which often means closer to pollution. And besides, the average car price is about $48k and there are EVs for under 30.
I think ICE cars should be taxed heavily and the extra tax should be used to offset vehicle pollution related healthcare costs and the knock-on ec
Re: They have no choice (Score:2)
At my neighbor's cookout, their gas grill was rear-ended by another gas grill going 60mph and the steaks were fine. Jeez.
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Why would Honda, who already operates a multi-billion dollar industry, who already operates 12 plants in the USA with favorable conditions in the states they do business in suddenly not want to build more factories in their second largest global sales region?
They have every incentive here to finish the factories, the factories make them money. I get cynicism in general but this is a case where the public and private incentives and goals are pretty well aligned.
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The factories aren't going to make them money, EV sales are a disaster in every aspect.
Well we won't know that until they do it... or don't do it.
You can't say theyre a failure when a factory is the key to their success, little premature aren't we?
"I predict that within 10 years, computers will be twice as powerful, ten thousand times larger, and so expensive that only the 5 richest kings of Europe will own them"
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Christ, kneejerk much? Why the fuck would Biden give money to a company to open plants in Canada (and which "state" is offering incentives for this)? You know that's not the country Biden is the president of, right? Well, don't get pesky facts get in the way of your tribalistic hate, if something doesn't fit your narrative then just invent some "alternative facts" -- it's a real timesaver!
Putting numbers into perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
This is all to produce a peak of 240k EVs per year. Production "starts" in 2028. It takes years for a factory to hit full production. Let's be generous and say 2030.
Honda sold 1,3 million vehicles in the US alone last year - let alone all of North America, including both Canada and Mexico. If all those EVs were just for the US it'd be 18% of their sales, but for all of North America, significantly less.
In short, Honda thinks that in 2030 only maybe 1/7th to 1/8th of its North American sales will be EVs. This is a very pessimistic game plan.
Re: Putting numbers into perspective (Score:2)
You seem to know for sure that this is Hondas ONLY investment into EV manufacturing? They stop here?
And are you sure the North American Honda market doesnâ(TM)t import from Japan or other countries?
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Unless... They build another factory. Or start converting one of their existing ones. Or rebadge someone else's EV, like a lot of the European manufacturers do.
I'm pessimistic about the US market as well, but I wouldn't read too much into this.
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They're laying out their plans for up to the end of the decade. You think this is just a fraction of their NA plans, that they're hiding things from their giant "Look, We're Doing EVs!" press release?
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Well it doesn't mention the collab with Sony, so yes I don't think it's complete.
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They are probably building hybrid plants but getting EV plant tax credits.
They'll "update" their plan in a few years.
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This is all to produce a peak of 240k EVs per year. Production "starts" in 2028. It takes years for a factory to hit full production. Let's be generous and say 2030.
Honda sold 1,3 million vehicles in the US alone last year - let alone all of North America, including both Canada and Mexico. If all those EVs were just for the US it'd be 18% of their sales, but for all of North America, significantly less.
In short, Honda thinks that in 2030 only maybe 1/7th to 1/8th of its North American sales will be EVs. This is a very pessimistic game plan.
Possibly. But I expect I suspect they can convert existing plants to EV or plug-in hybrids, so this could instead be an indication that they expect sales to grow by 240k vehicles, and all that growth is to be represented by EVs.
In the short term it seems like plug-in hybrids will win the day. For city driving with home charging they're almost as good as an EV (you just need to plug in a bit more). And for highway driving they're as good as an ICE. The full scale EV transition will probably only come when ra
Re: Putting numbers into perspective (Score:2)
Yes, with lots of subsidies (Score:2)
Honda's getting about CAD $5B in subsidies to expand production in Ontario. I'm philosophically opposed to subsidies like this, but companies play governments like chumps. "Well, if you don't subsidize us, we'll simply go to $OTHER_JURISDICTION that will subsidize us... that'd be a shame..."
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I remember the Amazon HQ2 "sweepstakes" which had like 5 states tripping over each other to offer tax deals to entice them to their state.
The Lie Behind Amazon’s HQ2 Sweepstakes Becomes Clear [prospect.org]
Even Canadian Pravda questioning this (Score:2)
Smart (Score:2)
After Elon has gone full crazy, many won't by Tesla, anymore. Especially those that like the idea of doing less harm and care about workers. EVs are lacking in competition and unless Musk moves on, Tesla. Plus, Elon is all about profit, so I expect there are still "many built to fail" aspects of their cars, and of course the repair lock in exacerbates that problem. I'm hoping all manufactures step up. I have a Hyundai hybrid, because I couldn't afford a full electric, now. Also, I have an ideal of 500 miles
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I think every EV today has a heating/cooling/thermal management system, I think those are actually the most "proprietary" things in regards to EV brands and the quality differentiator on battery life, how good is the charging and thermal management.
The early Prius model I believe were plagued by low life since they had little cooling so on later gens they just added a fan and a filter and made it part of the maintence to not block and clean said filter.
Pretty sure Tesla models and similar have full closed l
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It's true, all the EVs I see driving around every day died last winter. Totally disappeared.
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