Remote Amazon Tribe Connects To Internet, Gets Addicted To Porn and Social Media 96
The Marubo people, an isolated Indigenous tribe in the Amazon, have gained high-speed internet access through Elon Musk's Starlink service, drastically altering their traditional way of life. While the internet has brought significant benefits like improved communication and emergency response, it has also introduced challenges such as social media addiction, exposure to inappropriate content, and cultural erosion. The New York Times reports: After only nine months with Starlink, the Marubo are already grappling with the same challenges that have racked American households for years: teenagers glued to phones; group chats full of gossip; addictive social networks; online strangers; violent video games; scams; misinformation; and minors watching pornography. Modern society has dealt with these issues over decades as the internet continued its relentless march. The Marubo and other Indigenous tribes, who have resisted modernity for generations, are now confronting the internet's potential and peril all at once, while debating what it will mean for their identity and culture.
The internet was an immediate sensation. "It changed the routine so much that it was detrimental," [admitted one Marubo leader, Enoque Marubo]. "In the village, if you don't hunt, fish and plant, you don't eat." Leaders realized they needed limits. The internet would be switched on for only two hours in the morning, five hours in the evening, and all day Sunday. During those windows, many Marubo are crouched over or reclined in hammocks on their phones. They spend lots of time on WhatsApp. There, leaders coordinate between villages and alert the authorities to health issues and environmental destruction. Marubo teachers share lessons with students in different villages. And everyone is in much closer contact with faraway family and friends. To Enoque, the biggest benefit has been in emergencies. A venomous snake bite can require swift rescue by helicopter. Before the internet, the Marubo used amateur radio, relaying a message between several villages to reach the authorities. The internet made such calls instantaneous. "It's already saved lives," he said.
In April, seven months after Starlink's arrival, more than 200 Marubo gathered in a village for meetings. Enoque brought a projector to show a video about bringing Starlink to the villages. As proceedings began, some leaders in the back of the audience spoke up. The internet should be turned off for the meetings, they said. "I don't want people posting in the groups, taking my words out of context," another said. During the meetings, teenagers swiped through Kwai, a Chinese-owned social network. Young boys watched videos of the Brazilian soccer star Neymar Jr. And two 15-year-old girls said they chatted with strangers on Instagram. One said she now dreamed of traveling the world, while the other wants to be a dentist in Sao Paulo. This new window to the outside world had left many in the tribe feeling torn. "Some young people maintain our traditions," said TamaSay Marubo, 42, the tribe's first woman leader. "Others just want to spend the whole afternoon on their phones."
The internet was an immediate sensation. "It changed the routine so much that it was detrimental," [admitted one Marubo leader, Enoque Marubo]. "In the village, if you don't hunt, fish and plant, you don't eat." Leaders realized they needed limits. The internet would be switched on for only two hours in the morning, five hours in the evening, and all day Sunday. During those windows, many Marubo are crouched over or reclined in hammocks on their phones. They spend lots of time on WhatsApp. There, leaders coordinate between villages and alert the authorities to health issues and environmental destruction. Marubo teachers share lessons with students in different villages. And everyone is in much closer contact with faraway family and friends. To Enoque, the biggest benefit has been in emergencies. A venomous snake bite can require swift rescue by helicopter. Before the internet, the Marubo used amateur radio, relaying a message between several villages to reach the authorities. The internet made such calls instantaneous. "It's already saved lives," he said.
In April, seven months after Starlink's arrival, more than 200 Marubo gathered in a village for meetings. Enoque brought a projector to show a video about bringing Starlink to the villages. As proceedings began, some leaders in the back of the audience spoke up. The internet should be turned off for the meetings, they said. "I don't want people posting in the groups, taking my words out of context," another said. During the meetings, teenagers swiped through Kwai, a Chinese-owned social network. Young boys watched videos of the Brazilian soccer star Neymar Jr. And two 15-year-old girls said they chatted with strangers on Instagram. One said she now dreamed of traveling the world, while the other wants to be a dentist in Sao Paulo. This new window to the outside world had left many in the tribe feeling torn. "Some young people maintain our traditions," said TamaSay Marubo, 42, the tribe's first woman leader. "Others just want to spend the whole afternoon on their phones."
reaches for popcorn... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:reaches for popcorn... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now substitute yourself for "amazonian" and we're done here.
Not quite. From TFS:
Modern society has dealt with these issues over decades as the internet continued its relentless march. The Marubo and other Indigenous tribes, who have resisted modernity for generations, are now confronting the internet's potential and peril all at once, while debating what it will mean for their identity and culture.
Not only did we get to adjust to the internet and the Web gradually over the course of 3 decades, the 'net and the Web are from and of our own culture.
The Marubo people, on the other had, have been subjected to the end result of that 30 years of internet development in the space of less than ONE year. And the culture being portrayed / purveyed is almost totally alien to them. It's the cultural equivalent of introducing a large dose of a new disease to a distant tribe of people whose immune systems are entirely naive to it or anything like it.
Our own society is struggling with internet addiction - imagine how much worse it is for the Marubo.
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A large amount of our (Western) society didn't adjust over 3 decades, and I am not talking only about children, look how elderly people use social media... their first contact with the internet was some 3 years ago when they had to replace an old phone with a new smart device.
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Re:reaches for popcorn... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is an interesting test of the Prime Directive. I hope that it works out well for them in the long run.
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"Our historians remain amazed at how, within two hundred years of introducing a Stone Age culture to worldwide communications, the conquered the planet and quickly defeated the Klingon Empire."
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No, not that - the Amazon Prime Directive(TM)...
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> Not only did we get to adjust to the internet and the Web gradually over the course of 3 decades
No, we didnt adjust. What happened to the tribe is the same as what has happened to us. They got here in 9 months, we took a few decades. Both us and they are on much the same page and we get to see the affects first hand because they were outside of it all and we are blind to it as we are so entrenched. We cant see the wood for the trees, but through their experience we can.
I dont think it will help us
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Both us and they are on much the same page and we get to see the affects first hand because they were outside of it all and we are blind to it as we are so entrenched. We cant see the wood for the trees, but through their experience we can.
Good point - I hope the cultural anthropologists and the psychologists are paying close attention. Sadly, I suspect they aren't.
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You know who else is subjected to the "end result" without prior input or experience? Children.
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dont let your child on the internet then, problem solved.
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You know who else is subjected to the "end result" without prior input or experience? Children.
Doh! You're absolutely right. And I suppose our kids are, in one way, worse off than the Marubo. At least the Marubo and their kids have a sharply contrasting culture to fall back on.
Re: reaches for popcorn... (Score:2)
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It'll be okay, you can mute your Instagram push notifications now.
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Yeah, it is everyone, but worse for some. In Australia, this can be an especially serious problem with Aboriginal communities.
And also crime.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/20... [abc.net.au]
https://www.abc.net.au/news/20... [abc.net.au]
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its not because the internet is so evil - its because theyve got nothing to do. same reason theres large amounts of addiction of every variety in
native populations (aboriginals but also native americans follow the exact same pattern)
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You are addicted right now to
NOT THEM.
YOU.
So you didn't quite go to "denial" but..
This modern addiction is basically destroying society in
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Yet we all truck on. "Destroying" is sometimes the grumpy old man's term for "changing".
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ask youself if you could lock your phone in a drawer for even 24 hours... without anxiety or any negative psychological effects?
easily. but i dont consider myself addicted to the internet
Even better question: what would you do if you lost your phone?
get another because i need to be contactable. i personally think browsing on a phone is a subpar and often frustrating experience. change phone to desktop and you might have a case but Im a nerd its all I do. Are we similarly addicted to cars? If people lost their car theyd be anxious etc but youre not saying were addicted to cars.
This modern addiction is basically destroying society in several ways.
not really. people said the exact same thing about books. people sat silently oblivious to the world starting at some pa
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You could lock your phone in a drawer for 24 hours. Good for you. That's a fairly good sign you aren't addicted.
You'd buy another phone if you lost yours. Also, good for you. There's plenty of stories about people who killed themselves because the thought they lost all their bitcoins or even just their photographs.
Paper. Show me 1 picture of someone reading a book, while walking down the street at a crosswalk or driving, and I'll send you a thou
Re:Right (Score:5, Insightful)
So far it seems they decided to time-limit the internet. That's probably the best of the really simple solutions.
Re:Right (Score:4, Insightful)
So far it seems they decided to time-limit the internet. That's probably the best of the really simple solutions.
Also no computers in private areas, just in public areas during times when others are around. Ie anyone passing by can give you a glance and see what you are working on.
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Sounds like they're conservatives.
Because they're addicted to internet porn?
I wonder how many progressives will look down on them.
None, obviously. The Marubo people's culture and traditions are valuable and important to preserve.
Progressives are not against preserving culture and tradition. What you don't seem to understand is that it is possible to preserve culture and tradition while leaving the shitty parts in the past. That's what progress is all about: becoming a better society.
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The Marubo people's culture and traditions are valuable and important to preserve.
lol why? because you like them?
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Exactly!
It's a statement that brooks no argument but offers zero supporting argument.
NO culture is irreplacebly precious. They're mostly just average to terrible garbage with some outlying highlights.
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All cultures are valuable because the experiences of all people are valuable. This isn't complicated.
Why do you think that the Marubo culture is worthless?
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looool
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Why do you think that the Marubo culture is worthless?
]
worth = how much you like something. and i dont like it. i dont hate it either, im just indifferent.
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So you mean that progressives have a "do as i say, not as I do" mentality? Because none of what you said seems to be what progressives are about. They've eroded culture more than anyone. Every action they take tries to make people from all cultures think and talk the same.
And as people have pointed out, I doubt you know anything about the Marubo people's culture. Your statement is pretty much cookie cutter while not actually saying anything that answers the question.
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Because none of what you said seems to be what progressives are about.
That's because you don't know anything about progressives.
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You're right. I'm only able to gauge them by their actions, often times it's the complete opposite of what they're screaming. I'm not sure what else I can do. But hey, judging people by their actions doesn't seem to be a trait of progressives either. So yeah, what do I know.
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You're right.
Almost always.
I'm only able to gauge them by their actions,
of which you clearly have no understanding. What a joke.
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There's nothing "conservative" about wanting to preserve cultures and nothing "progressive" about unifying cultures.
I am extremely progressive but view diversity in cultures as a strength. Musk is a right-winger and views cultures as a threat to his profits.
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The funny part is that you described the progressive process of destroying cultures. No culture can survive being constantly forced to surrender to all other cultures.
But as a cult member, you don't see the actual negative outcomes of your cult activities. All you see about cult's dogma of the utopia where everyone is equal and gets to live together in a wonderfully equal society. You are not able of thinking from first principles, where you would be forced to ask a question that progressive thought leaders
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But as a cult member, you don't see the actual negative outcomes of your cult activities.
A huh. The other people are a cult. Even though you're the one acting like a brainwashed moron.
And then you display all your cult like behaviour to show us. Good example.
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P.S. Musk has nothing to do with this beyond being at the helm of the company providing the service to the Brazilian government. They're getting Stalink terminals from a Brazil government program to connect remote tribes to the internet.
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There's nothing "conservative" about wanting to preserve cultures
That is exactly what conservatism is about. Conservation. Don't confuse conservatism with specific policies or political positions. Words like "right" and "Republican" often get equated with conservatism, but those are different words with different meanings. Conservatism is simply: a resistance to change.
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> The question is if shunning technology is in their children's best interest, or the elder's best interest?
The tribes best interest, as those kids need to learn to do the stuff needed to survive in a isolated place like that and one of the problems is they young'uns are not interested in doing that stuff now, so they will eventually grow and hunt less and starve.
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as those kids need to learn to do the stuff needed to survive in a isolated place like
if theyre on whatsapp via a phone they must have electricity, or at least solar panels. they arent spear throwing unga-bunga facepainted tribesmen, theyre just poor brazillians living on the edge of the rainforest
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Except that of course they are in fact face painted tribesmen. Not going into progressive bigoted ignorance tropes like "unga bunga" and "spear throwing". That's your thing.
You'd know this if you read the original story. These are recently contacted tribes/primitive lifestyle maintaining tribes that still live that lifestyle. As in there are actual photographs. From the story:
"She was kneading jenipapo berries to make a black body paint and wearing ropes of jewelry made from snail shells."
And here's an imag
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In this period the first New Tribes Mission agents began to visit them, and in 1962 these missionaries established themselves in the Ituí headwaters, where they remain today. After the arrival of the missionaries, the Marubo were contacted by lumber workers coming from the towns of the Amazon-Javari confluence. With the riverboat traders from these towns, the Marubo began to exchange wood, rubber, furs, ceramics, chickens, and even pigs for iron tools, guns, ammunition, batteries, salt, and plastics, and the trade along the Rio Juruá became less important.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/h... [encyclopedia.com]
yeah, not quite the "recently" contacted tribe youre making them out to be. 19th Century first contact and theyve been part of modern life since at least the 60s
The Marubo earn some cash or obtain White items by working for missionaries or by extracting rubber and wood and raising chickens (and sometimes pigs) for the riverboat traders.
Why would a tribe need cash? What good is cash to a hunter gatherer? None - but they arent hunter gathereres, they are poor Brazillian - your western naivety notwithstanding
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I love it when I set a trap to detect dishonest argument, and dishonest arguer jumps into it head first. So my statement is:
>These are recently contacted tribes/primitive lifestyle maintaining tribes that still live that lifestyle.
This is self evidently the latter of the two. But you're not an honest participant, so you pretend that latter half doesn't exist and post this drivel as a counter argument:
>yeah, not quite the "recently" contacted tribe youre making them out to be. 19th Century first contac
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It would be interesting to see video tutorials of what it takes to survive in their environment and to record and learn more about their way of life directly from them. Had they been aware of other communities and deliberately avoided them in the past ? Before they were contacted what did they think when they saw manmade objects (eg. airplanes) ?
It's not reasonable to keep these people as if they were museum exhibits, they and we need to find ways to make their lives better. Imagine if we were contacted by
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So! (Score:2)
This isn't new. (Score:2)
I'm reminded of a video I saw hosted by Simon Whistler, a host of a handful of very interesting YouTube channels. In one video he presented a tribe still living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. This wasn't entirely true since the people shown were wearing modern "western" clothing like tank tops, cargo shorts, and various styles of sandals.
I don't recall the details but they don't much matter to me. The tribe was described as living a life of living off the land, moving from place to place in a kind of circl
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It's time they get modern medicine and potato chips.
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...You will eat the beef.
And you will drink the Kool-Aid.
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Time to move, we need to cut down your rainforest to grow the beef.
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"It's time they get modern medicine and potato chip"
Not to mention missing out on goatse.cx.
Re: This isn't new. (Score:2)
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i dont think he spent any considerable time in england because his accents so peculiar - sounds like hes lived abroad most of his life and the only english he heard was from the one parent, and then just BBC world service and the RP style
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I think a lot of people are of the opinion that we've lost things along the way and it's not that those things are better than what we gained but it's that there were very real trade offs we made none the less. The natural human inclination towards tribalism for instance, now all of a sudden these people are being thrust into a world of billions while only just before they lived in a "world" of hundreds. What does that do to a culture?
There's likely real loss happening here that we will only really understa
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Sure. Ok. But the truth is far less nuanced
Cultures adapt or die. It's been happening since we were flinging poo at each other and will continue to do so long past our collective death
Romantizing this shiat is a mental impairment of some sort. If there is something of value in the culture it will persist. Otherwise we can wave a cheery goodbye and not care one jot further
"It's my culture" is pretty much the bleating of a terrible idea in its death throws - Be it the ritualistic mutilation of kids genitalia,
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> My view is that it is sad to leave these people in ignorance of what the world offers, and that the sun and moon are not gods. Would people exposed to modern conveniences of flush toilets, modern medicine, and more allow their children to be raised like this tribe raises their children? I doubt it. They'd give their children a telescope or binoculars to see the moon for what it is, show them video of humans walking on its surface, and tell them of how it's made of rock and in orbit around planet Earth.
It's not so bad (Score:4, Funny)
At least Elon hasn't given them Cybertrucks.
I heard he considered donating not-a-flamethrowers (Score:2)
So much more useful to go all Preditor style hunting in the jungle.
Violent Video Games (Score:2)
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Tide has turned. Decades ago violent games were so unrealistic that only an idiot would think it was violence.
Now, you are actually making bad choices and actions towards characters that look and act just like actual humans. This isnt the 80s mate, where you play as a 2D sprite punching a bouncing alien enemy on a C64, nor is it the 90's where you play better detailed 2D sprites that punch each other with red pixels suggesting blood.
Nor is it the eraly 00's where you have a low polygon count 3D figurine a-
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Social Media ought to be regulated like drugs (Score:1)
It does all of the same things that an addicting drug does. Why should it matter how it's consumed?
Oh Brave New World (Score:3)
That has such people in it!
This is why... (Score:3)
Of Course (Score:2)
Yep, I knew it (Score:2)
I've been saying for a while now that Human brains are clearly unable to handle something like the internet, well, constant ACCESS to it at least.
I'm one of the internet generation, those who started life without it and then grew up during the 90's as it entered first the schools and then the home. My younger cousins I call the "social media" generation as they always had the internet from year dot almost and saw social media take off during their teen years.
Having lived this transition, I see the boundary
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My younger cousins I call the "social media" generation
was IRC not social media? and why is it that everyone who decries the internet is immune to its harmful effects? doesnt seem to affect you in the same way as those poor, poor children
They don’t go to a library and look stuff up in a book anymore.
YOURE ON THE FUCKIN INTERNET YOURSELF
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IRC is not social media, no. Just like Slashdot is not social media, or a newspaper.
Social media involves sharing media amongst groups of people, not simply chatting. You could suggest that blogs are a form of social media, the blog text being the media.
Social networks build upon that with great overlap.
IRC is instant messaging and predates social media.
If you only look at the "social" aspect of it that is the aspect of having multiple people read you posts, or the nnewspaper, then some could consider the
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IRC is not social media, no. Just like Slashdot is not social media, or a newspaper.
if whatsapp, a chat app, is social media, then so is msn messenger.
If you think msn messenger is somehow conceptually distinct from IRC, then youre grasping. Both could send media (sound, image, video) to groups of people (your only definition). Users on both had a profile page with photo.
Usenet was social media, those pre-reddit forums/messageboards (think MyPhpBB) were social media.
"Social media" is a buzzword. Either call it "post-web2.0 social media", or remove the abritrary date before which you consid
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Is it true that libraries are having those problems?
I keep going to my local library for a couple of services they provide, and there are always people there. Both doing book reading and using computers.
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Don't forget looking at porn!
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Not really a thing here in Finland. People mostly look at porn at home as far as I know. At least I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking at porn in public, and if someone in my unusually large circle of acquaintances did, rumor mill would let me know pretty quick.
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I should have mentioned I'm in the UK, I think US libraries are doing better and have no clue about other countries.
Here in the UK libraries are funded by council tax. Councils are required by law to provide libraries and the monthly council tax bill fund them, although they might be able to seek additional funding streams too.
Small towns and villages have seen many things close in recent years. Banks have been closing branches left and right, simply because "everyone" uses the app. This creates issues f
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Oh, I'm sure small towns and villages are suffering across the West. Not so much because of tax or whatnot, but because of demographic realities.
I live in the second largest metro area of my nation. That's a population growth area, so there's actual people, including young people to use the services.
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> including young people to use the services.
Interesting.
I cant see that happening here. Besides access to school text books libraries have mostly been seen as a way to entertain the kids and support their reading capabilities outsode of school. As a way to provide access to the internet for poor people who have no home access, as well as the aged who can also use training services. Well, when they have staff members that is.
Yeah my town isnt a city like London, York or Manchester but it is the county
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Oh, however, the BRitish Library will always remain open as it has a copy of every book ever published in the UK and always gets a copy of every book ever published.
That is truly a place for archive research, most people will never visit it however. I'd like to but unless I'm taking a University course again I'll struggle to think of what to try and look up!
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It could also be because I live near a lot of schools. Young people looking for reference material is common.
But there are also several major retirement homes nearby, and a lot of elderly reading news papers in the reading room is also a norm when I went in last time.
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But broadband internet is monthly, use it or not, you pay too much either way and so you have zero excuses not to use it and so you sit there, doom scrolling and allowing your kids brains to develop in abnormal ways. We have only had this tech and usage pattern for the last 15 or so years, 20 at a push. Before that, for all of human history, we lived differently, learnt differently, THOUGHT differently, socialised differently... 20 years vs all that time is nothing and now with seeing what happened to an isolated tribe after only 9 months (remember it will get way worse for them) that must be some kind of warning about what and how we go about using the internet and if we should allow certain types of monetisation of the human mind.
You'd think we'd take the warning, right?
Then again, the "sexual revolution" is really only 30-40 years older than the internet. Just now approaching the span of one average life, really. There are no shortage of obviously bad outcomes from that, and we haven't learned anything, as a society.
We engage in these massive society-wide experiments, and then we ignore the data.
Nice (Score:2)
I keep saying the humans in Avatar went about things the wrong way. Rather, set up hot dog stands to sell Coke and T-shirts and wait for the "yoots" to come to you.
Normally, cars, basic medical care like penecillin would be useful enticements as well, but you know, magical flying beasts and a local Gaia to keep you top notch healthy. The story wishes into existence wonderful things only advanced society can provide in reality. How convenient.
What's interesting ... (Score:2)
... is that at least some people seem to care ... as long as the victims are exotic tribespeople.
Plain old your kids, on the other hand, whatevs. You are a weirdo troglodyte if you try to limit their internet access in any way.
This is the answer to Fermi's Paradox (Score:2)
A civilization discovers social media, and collapses.
Starlink in the Tribal Amazon? (Score:2)
Welcome to the jungle baby! (Score:1)