China Is Testing More Driverless Cars Than Any Other Country (nytimes.com) 50
Assisted driving systems and robot taxis are becoming more popular in China with government help, as cities designate large areas for testing on public roads. From a report: The world's largest experiment in driverless cars is underway on the busy streets of Wuhan, a city in central China with 11 million people, 4.5 million cars, eight-lane expressways and towering bridges over the muddy waters of the Yangtze River. A fleet of 500 taxis navigated by computers, often with no safety drivers in them for backup, buzz around. The company that operates them, the tech giant Baidu, said last month that it would add a further 1,000 of the so-called robot taxis in Wuhan.
Across China, 16 or more cities have allowed companies to test driverless vehicles on public roads, and at least 19 Chinese automakers and their suppliers are competing to establish global leadership in the field. No other country is moving as aggressively. The government is providing the companies significant help. In addition to cities designating on-road testing areas for robot taxis, censors are limiting online discussion of safety incidents and crashes to restrain public fears about the nascent technology.
Surveys by J.D. Power, an automotive consulting firm, found that Chinese drivers are more willing than Americans to trust computers to guide their cars. "I think there's no need to worry too much about safety -- it must have passed safety approval," said Zhang Ming, the owner of a small grocery store near Wuhan's Qingchuan Pavilion, where many Baidu robot taxis stop. Another reason for China's lead in the development of driverless cars is its strict and ever-tightening control of data. Chinese companies set up crucial research facilities in the United States and Europe and sent the results back home. But any research in China is not allowed to leave the country. As a result, it's difficult for foreign carmakers to use what they learn in China for cars they sell in other countries.
Across China, 16 or more cities have allowed companies to test driverless vehicles on public roads, and at least 19 Chinese automakers and their suppliers are competing to establish global leadership in the field. No other country is moving as aggressively. The government is providing the companies significant help. In addition to cities designating on-road testing areas for robot taxis, censors are limiting online discussion of safety incidents and crashes to restrain public fears about the nascent technology.
Surveys by J.D. Power, an automotive consulting firm, found that Chinese drivers are more willing than Americans to trust computers to guide their cars. "I think there's no need to worry too much about safety -- it must have passed safety approval," said Zhang Ming, the owner of a small grocery store near Wuhan's Qingchuan Pavilion, where many Baidu robot taxis stop. Another reason for China's lead in the development of driverless cars is its strict and ever-tightening control of data. Chinese companies set up crucial research facilities in the United States and Europe and sent the results back home. But any research in China is not allowed to leave the country. As a result, it's difficult for foreign carmakers to use what they learn in China for cars they sell in other countries.
But expected based on population, right? (Score:3)
China is now second to India for population, and there more or less is no real third given how far behind the next nation is. I'd expect them to have at least 4x more driverless cars on the road in various stages of development than the US does; they're not exactly technologically backwards.
If anything, it's kind of sad India didn't claim this title.
Re:But expected based on population, right? (Score:4, Informative)
Ever been to India? Take a gander at what driving around in India is like. https://youtu.be/KnPiP9PkLAs?t... [youtu.be] If India can make a driverless car it would be 100x more powerful than AGI. Actually, Tesla should have worked on the problem there .. as every possible US edge case would occur in the first 10 minutes. I think Tesla's head of Full Self Driving tech, Ashok Elluswamy (who I assume grew up in India), said his dream was to solve FSD in India someday.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a friend from India, and I watched one of those 'driving through the city' videos on YouTube for New Delhi... yeah. The only way you're doing FSD in India is with a cowcatcher on the front bumper.
Though honestly, it wasn't actually as bad as I thought it would be from my preconceptions of urban India.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah it's somewhat surprising that this chaotic traffic kind of works. People just slow down and work out who goes when and where. It's been tested in Europe or the US too, they just removed most of the traffic signs and people just drove slower and it didn't really get more dangerous.
The roundabouts are pretty boring but the intersection is interesting: https://youtu.be/KnPiP9PkLAs?t... [youtu.be]
As you can imagne, in the US there would be a traffic light and cars blasting down at 50mph on green, then occasionally st
Re:But expected based on population, right? (Score:4, Insightful)
China is now second to India for population, and there more or less is no real third given how far behind the next nation is. I'd expect them to have at least 4x more driverless cars on the road in various stages of development than the US does; they're not exactly technologically backwards.
There are several reasons for China being a leader in AVs and robotaxi testing. First, the Chinese government is pushing this initiative, and in China, the government can easily remove any legal challenges or roadblocks. Second, the government has been and can continue to force quality and uniformity in city roads, in terms of lanes, traffic signals, etc. and laws, which reduces the weird corner cases that AVs might otherwise face. Third, civil liability in the face of a government initiative doesn't exist, whereas it would be a showstopper in most developed countries.
If anything, it's kind of sad India didn't claim this title.
I've never visited India, but my Indian friends have shown me their videos of driving in India. The lack of adherence to driving laws and rules combined with the lack of well-defined, uniform lanes in India (especially off the major roads and in neighborhoods) would be a challenge to AVs, not to mention early testing of robotaxis.
Re: (Score:3)
China is now second to India for population, and there more or less is no real third given how far behind the next nation is. I'd expect them to have at least 4x more driverless cars on the road in various stages of development than the US does; they're not exactly technologically backwards.
There are several reasons for China being a leader in AVs and robotaxi testing. First, the Chinese government is pushing this initiative, and in China, the government can easily remove any legal challenges or roadblocks. Second, the government has been and can continue to force quality and uniformity in city roads, in terms of lanes, traffic signals, etc. and laws, which reduces the weird corner cases that AVs might otherwise face. Third, civil liability in the face of a government initiative doesn't exist, whereas it would be a showstopper in most developed countries.
If anything, it's kind of sad India didn't claim this title.
I've never visited India, but my Indian friends have shown me their videos of driving in India. The lack of adherence to driving laws and rules combined with the lack of well-defined, uniform lanes in India (especially off the major roads and in neighborhoods) would be a challenge to AVs, not to mention early testing of robotaxis.
The British road system, with its poor lane markings, single lane back roads, cars parked on both sides, so on and so forth, would be a considerable challenge to autonomous vehicles and the UK has one of the lowest road fatality rates in the world. How well designed the road or even laws are, are of little consequence to safety. It's both adherence to laws and the understanding of when you really, really, really, shouldn't do something a bit daft that make driving so safe here.
With regards to China, they
Re: (Score:1)
China is now second to India for population, and there more or less is no real third given how far behind the next nation is. I'd expect them to have at least 4x more driverless cars on the road in various stages of development than the US does; they're not exactly technologically backwards.
I was thinking much the same thing. This is like the comments on how more people in China know English than in the USA, or how China has more people graduating in engineering and science than the USA. With a population that large in comparison to the USA, or any other nation than India, it might be a bit shocking to hear China doesn't come first in most anything.
While China isn't technologically backwards they are still a way behind many other nations. That is to be expected from a nation that works so h
Re: (Score:3)
> They'd be doing much better if the government allowed for greater freedom of communications, travel, and trade
I am not Chinese, and not even a sinophile (definitely not a fan of communism or authoritarianism), but from the perspective of the CCP I expect it's seen as necessary to keep China from exploding socially. They are not a uniform mass of identical people, and more freedom and freedom to communicate might allow groups that don't want to live under the CCP's version of Han China a way to move to
Re: (Score:2)
The history of China is filled with constant wars, not only from external invaders but countless internal civil wars and warlords. I can't blame them for having a deep memory and wanting to avoid that at all costs.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
That's basically it. Yesterday they jailed two women who were prominent in China's "Me Too" movement, i.e. demanding something be done about rampant misogyny and sexual assault. Their goal is very much to prevent social unrest, which is why they folded so quickly when mass anti-lockdown protests began.
It works because most people have little reason to complain, as quality of life and wealth are rapidly increasing for them. For a lot of women they just accept that they are the lesser gender and men are going
Re: (Score:2)
"For a lot of women they just accept that they are the lesser gender and men are going to abuse them. Things are slowly changing, but they will only allow it to be a very gradual thing, no agitation or demanding immediate upending of social norms."
You are a glass all full kind of person aren't you? Except that whole part about women being the lesser gender and men are Institutionally going to abuse them. It won't change as long as the Chinese government is in power.
Re: (Score:2)
"People in China has MORE freedom to travel than anywhere in the West, including Europe and America"
O really? Where in the US can't I go? How does China have more travel freedom? Every country in Europe and America allow it's citizens free access to the entire country.
Now, if you are certain types of Chinese, you are shipped off to concentration camps. How's that for freedom! Yay Chinese! :(
BYD (Score:1)
Didn't BYD take the same approach as US and Japanese automakers and declare autonomous/ADAS as "unsolvable"? Reference: https://insideevs.com/news/663... [insideevs.com]
Was it a ploy to fool idiots like Toyota, and the non-Tesla US car manufacturers that are already clueless about it?
Re:BYD (Score:5, Informative)
I also don't know if that prediction is accurate, I spent a week working in San Francisco and I had already gotten approved for Waymo service so I used it about 9 times over the week instead of cabs or rideshares to get around and in my experience it's quite good actually.
I was actually surprised how assertively the cars drove on busy pedestrian streets. Lot of people walking around, people on scooters, bicycles, cabbies, etc and it navigated around those obstacles surprisingly well. Especially out there with the big hills it did an excellent job controlling the acceleration, checking it's blind spots on the peak and easing into the downhill. Really after the first trip any anxiety about how it drives faded away and it does a good job of blending in with the human drivers. It feels predictable in how it handles situations.
It's still all local streets, no highway driving yet so that would be a definite different story, to have no driver while careening 80mph down the freeway but a real glimpse of the future.
It does have some issues like it's pickup locations (it does not want to come to right where youre, it would almost always direct you to a spot about a block away) and an area where it definitely is a bit over cautious is picking out a place to pull over but it was in fact smart enough to give up and just double park for 30 seconds to let us out.
To be fair this is one town with a limited run of cars that is babysat by the very engineers designing it but it does in fact work somewhere.
Re: (Score:2)
I've seen some videos of Waymo driving around SF and it seemed to cope pretty well with somewhat irregular traffic, tourists walking around on the roads etc.
Highways shold be easier, if anything, but the stakes are higher as a mistake could cause a massive pileup which would be very bad publicity.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah I was around the touristy spots on a saturday like the Wharf and Union Square so everything was jamming and really nobody seemed aprehensive about these things, pedestrians or drivers.
But for sure, when I was in the front seat watching the empty seat and wheel turning by itself I was thinking "I am fine with this at 30mph but if it was going 75 i might feel different"
Re: (Score:2)
Cars can't get the virus because they don't eat bats. Unless .. batteries. Hmm. Nevermind.
Re: (Score:1)
Then how do MAGAs get batsh$t crazy?
-5 Political Insult
It's easy to test driverless cars (Score:4, Funny)
It's a thing. Look it up.
Re: (Score:2)
I mean... look at the consequences for permanently crippling someone vs. killing them (especially if it still looks accidental).
There's a huge financial incentive to kill a struck pedestrian. Like a 'life-altering' one that more than makes it worth the risk of escalating to murder.
I live in Canada, with universal health care and mandatory driving insurance and I've still given my kids (jokingly) the same advice.
Re: (Score:3)
Dictators can move fast and break people.
Not surprising (Score:3)
With over a billion people, they can afford to lose a few.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
they can afford to lose a few.
And they can recoup the costs by monetizing the security videos of accidents posted on YouTube.
welll... but (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are you counting the hundreds of concentration camps China has about for all the dissident populations?
Obviously! (Score:3)
"often with no safety drivers in them for backup"
"I think there's no need to worry too much about safety -- it must have passed safety approval," said Zhang Ming, the owner of a small grocery store
Re: (Score:2)
Waymo tests its cars on US roads without safety drivers too. They have remote monitoring of vehicles, and a remote driver can step in if it gets into a situation it doesn't know how to handle.
People seem to think that self driving cars need to be perfect, but 99.9% with a human able to remotely get it out of a tricky situation is still a massive reduction in labour. Just as long as it avoids any accidents, and thus liability, it doesn't need to be perfect to be useful.
Driverless == government controlled (Score:3)
Not a surprise the CCP is at the forefront.
They are following Musk's advice! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
He's not wrong but that's such an autistic way to put it that nobody should take it seriously.
In China drivers intentionally kill the pedestrian (Score:4, Informative)
In China drivers intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit.
https://slate.com/news-and-pol... [slate.com]
as it costs less.
Re: In China drivers intentionally kill the pedest (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
What a shit hole.
"crucial research facilities" (Score:2)
"crucial research facilities", otherwise known as Chinese police stations.
Dumb idea (Score:2)
There will never be enough capacity for every one of us to ride in our own little cars from suburb to suburb. Not in the population densities we humans like to maintain. Self Driving cars don't fix that. You just end up with more induced demand.
Public transportation is the solution. It's the only thing that can move people in the numb
Re: (Score:2)
I've seen ... the public.
I'm not taking public transportation for any amount of time if I dont have to.
the public is gross. I am glad I dont have to deal with general public. if I can avoid the public, as it were, so much the better.
no, the solution is not to put us into group sardine cans.
I've been to China - This is probably a good thing (Score:2)
Already have them (Score:2)
Based on accident videos they have a large number of driverless cars already. ;)
CHINA IS... (Score:2)
Number of "robotaxis" in the article "we're adding 1k!"
Number of clickbait headlines with "CHINA!" = indefinite
Re: (Score:2)
"Number of anti-China idiots = infinite"
You don't have to be an idiot to be anti-China, you simply have to look objectively at the Chinese Government.
Thank God they thought of safety (Score:2)
I think there's no need to worry too much about safety -- it must have passed safety approval," said Zhang Ming, the owner of a small grocery store
That has put my mind at rest.
Lol, yeah right (Score:2)
"I think there's no need to worry too much about safety -- it must have passed safety approval," said Zhang Ming
Hahaha. Maybe this comment was just for public consumption, since they have to do that in China. I hope that the general Chinese public is not so brainwashed.