Half of Petrol Stations Expected To Close in Next Decade (dutchnews.nl) 128
Half of the Netherlands' petrol stations are set to close in the next five to 10 years as electric cars start to take over the market, according to ING Research. From a report: The bank's economists say there will be insufficient earnings in future, with only some 2,000 of today's 4,131 gas stations remaining. "It is mainly the small, unmanned petrol stations that will disappear," says ING Research, as reported in De Telegraaf. [...]
Owners are trying to maintain turnover by increasing their sales of food and beverages, maintenance services and even car washing, ING says. But the long-term business model of independent stations will be difficult to maintain. "A quick calculation shows how long petrol station owners can still sell petrol," Dirk Mulder, Trade & Retail sector banker at ING Research, said. "A new car remains in the Dutch fleet for an average of 19 years. The last petrol and diesel cars will come onto the market in 2034 and will stay on the road until approximately 2053."
Owners are trying to maintain turnover by increasing their sales of food and beverages, maintenance services and even car washing, ING says. But the long-term business model of independent stations will be difficult to maintain. "A quick calculation shows how long petrol station owners can still sell petrol," Dirk Mulder, Trade & Retail sector banker at ING Research, said. "A new car remains in the Dutch fleet for an average of 19 years. The last petrol and diesel cars will come onto the market in 2034 and will stay on the road until approximately 2053."
Misleading Headline (Score:4, Funny)
The horrors of climate change in the Netherlands (Score:3)
Re:Article headline should be "half of petrol... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm good with this as long as
- Politicians at the national level, their staff, government executives all are forced to use EV for 5 years before any new regulations affecting petrol stations take effect.
I know it's red, white and blue, but the Netherlands is not America. Our politicians rather infamously don't drive much in the way of petrol cars. The recently departed prime minister infamously dismissed the idea of police protection because he didn't want to stop riding his bicycle to work. A significant portion of the population drive EVs and doing so is incredibly easy. The Netherlands has the largest number of EV charging points per capita and per land area in the world, and the largest number absolute in the EU. The government had a plan to have every house within 100m of a charging point by 2030. Several cities have already achieved this.
As it stands staff and government vehicles are already EVs, as company vehicles were given tax discounts if they were electric - many have made this move a long time ago. Due to this many companies also offer charging points for their staff.
Now that you know how silly your point is that regulations / legislation is out of touch because it doesn't affect politicians...
None of this has anything to do with the percent of EV on the road or the decline of oil powered vehicles.
You're completely wrong about this. The entire premise of the article is purely based on the notion of decline in oil powered vehicles stripping petrol stations of primary revenue.
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I'm so tired of people applying their experience in a country that was designed to be walkable from the beginning and that is very small to everyone else.
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No, it wasn't FIFY. You added it redundantly. It was incredibly clear that the entire paragraph was specifically about the Netherlands.
Also, maybe we should increase the walkability of places in the USA?
Heck, just enabling golf carts for local trips down here in Florida can take a load off the roads.
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Everything hasn't already been built. You change up stuff through attrition.
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It's every city. There's always changes happening, you can just change the rules a bit and get a lot more walkable areas over time.
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every house within 100m of a charging point by 203 (Score:2)
Is that 100 metres, or 100 miles?
Re: Article headline should be "half of petrol... (Score:2)
The recently departed prime minister infamously dismissed the idea of police protection because he didn't want to stop riding his bicycle to work.
Apparently the police are incapable of escorting their PM on bicycle? The US secret service accompanies not only our current, but previous presidents, on their bike rides...
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The netherlands is a small country, so the range or recharge of an EV rarely becomes a problem.
Politicians tend to be affluent so they can afford to live somewhere they have parking and access to a charger, so they will be quite happy with this change. It's the ordinary people who live in apartments and park on the street who will suffer.
Re:Article headline should be "half of petrol... (Score:5, Funny)
The Netherlands has excellent high-speed rail which connects seamlessly with the rest of Yurp but I can't, not won't, CAN'T use that because socialism... & I hate people.
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NEED to refuel/recharge my car in less than 4 minutes while I take amphetamine & caffeine pills
Dude, get over yourself. A gasoline powered vehicles takes less than 5 minutes to recharge. You insult the reader's intelligence by pretending that wanting to keep the current expectations is outrageous and insane. Find a new way to express yourself.
Time to recharge is STILL a significant issue, even if it is not significant for you. (but then, swappable batteries is continuously poo-pooed as well, wtf?)
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There's quite a few possible reasons:
1. It might not actually cost more due to rebates and subsidies.
2. Lower operating costs.
3. Convenience of never having to visit a gas station if you can charge at home or work
4. Don't need or want to drive 5 hours non-stop. I know I'm getting older, but I want a stop every couple hours anyways these days.
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2.Doesn't help if you can't afford the initial cost. By the time you pay the car off it will be too old to sell, so maybe you pay less in the end but you still lose.
3. I have five drivers living in my house. I have one spot in the circuit panel in my garage to put a char
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On #2 - The initial cost can be in the loan. We don't sell cars, typically, in my family. I'm in a 2008 tacoma bought new, my mom's in a 2002 Saturn, bought new, etc...
#3 - subpanels are a thing. Use the circuit opening to run a subpanel, put the charging ports on that.
Also, you generally don't need to rip the wall out - fishtape is a thing.
#4 - it's called not being dangerous on the highway. I've seen too many people killed via tired driving. And a stop doesn't have to take all that long - You're only
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- Yes it is a subpanel in my garage with one circuit left. To get more chargers I will need another subpanel. That is what will require tearing up my entire basement ceiling because the main panel is at the other end of the house from the garage and the joists run crosswise with no space.
- My mate and I switch off if she gets tired, but usually it's not a problem. If
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- I don't think that anyone needs an unlimited loan. There are concrete prices attached to EVs already, and if they're too expensive the financial savings for using them aren't there, so the price premium is quite limited.
- Only if your electrician is lazy. That's a possibility.
- Break doesn't mean sleeping. In my case it's much more active. Get out of the car and walk around for a while. Get the blood flowing, prevent issues like feet swelling. Old people stuff.
- Tired driving is generally after 12-1
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- The ceiling is drywalled right to the joists which run crosswise. There is no ot
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you have put up with all kinds of inconveniences.
What inconveniences?
By going with ICE, I avoid a bunch as well, remember:
1. Having to visit gas stations regularly
2. Having to pay for or do oil and filter changes. With an EV you maybe have to do a cabin air filter every so often.
As for your ceiling; I can't say for certain, but there's generally a way.
Driving tired: An EV can easily do 8 hours of driving in a day, so if you're only talking about going for that long, then there's no problem. If you're driving enough to exceed the capabilities of an EV,
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Oil changes are $100 CDN for all synthetic and happen at most once every six months. If you want to be cautious. There are places you can just drive into now. You stay in your car and it is done in 20 mins. You don't even have to check the oil, the computer does that for you.
Ok well you have a particularity that prev
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They also offer the convenience of being everywhere you would ever want to be in great numbers.
You've clearly never driven where I have then. I've driven from North Dakota to Alaska and back using the Trans-Canadian highway.
Yes, I've seen signs saying "Next gas 200 miles away". Lots of pretty views. Had to stop for Buffalo, Moose, and Sheep on the road.
That availability is the result of over a hundred years of buildup. Have EVs had even 20 yet? More chargers are being installed every day.
I can't even read what you are saying about "adjusting things". My ADHD can't handle it.
So you're not actually looking at all of my arguments. Got it. Generally the result of this is missing segm
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No I'm not reading some of your arguments because the hoops you go through to do a trip are ridiculous. I already have my hands full with planning the route and accommodations for pets and such. I don't need any more complications and that's all I see in your "solutions".
DOT mandated break periods are ridiculous? Stopping to go to the bathroom is ridiculous? Charging while letting your dogs do their thing is ridiculous?
I posted a sample schedule that provides reasonable breaks while also keeping an EV charged while on the road. It was even for earlier EVs with longer charge requirements.
With driving 8 hours/day, you're realistically limited to about 600 miles a day. With a modern EV, a Tesla supercharger is 200 miles/15 minutes, so realistically, you only need to find 4
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It don't really care why I'm having to wait to charge, i only care how long i have to be waiting instead of driving. I don't see why you would make the distinction between charging and waiting to charge, both of them are keeping you from getting to where you want to go.
Yes, weather can mess up your schedule. That's why people generally avoid driving in winter unless they have no choice.
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It don't really care why I'm having to wait to charge, i only care how long i have to be waiting instead of driving. I don't see why you would make the distinction between charging and waiting to charge, both of them are keeping you from getting to where you want to go.
Simple, they have different solutions. Waiting to charge can be fixed by increasing the number of chargers. Reducing charging time takes engineering and actual technological advances.
And if you and your wife are trading off such that you're driving like 16 hours/day, well, that's 45 minutes of charging per 8 hour shift with current technology. Roughly, of course.
That's 3 15 minute breaks. Which when EV chargers are "everywhere", means that you have time to go hit the bathroom, visit a grocery store for
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Where did you get 16 hours a day from? I have always been saying 8 hours a day. Why do you keep making up bizarre stores about what I said?
But I don't want to stop that much. So say we stop for the dogs for 30 minutes. There is not likely going to be a charger where we park to take the dogs, so now you are saying I need to stop three times for 15 minutes PLUS 30 for the dogs. Then heaven forbid there is a restaurant that we like an
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Where did you get 16 hours a day from? I have always been saying 8 hours a day. Why do you keep making up bizarre stores about what I said?
With this:
I didn't say i personally drove 8 hours. Usually the wife and i switch if we get tired.
Because it looked like you were using this to dispute my statement that an EV doesn't add that much time if you're only driving 8 hours a day. I misread it as you and your wife each doing an 8 hour shift.
I mean, if you're limiting yourself to 8 hours of driving between you and your wife, that's still easy mode. If I'm proposing scenarios for driving massively more time and longer distances (oh, I forgot to mention, at 75 mph),
Most of the time when I get people complaining about the time lost to
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"Half of petrol stations to close because it will be too costly in the future to add the government mandated EV charging stations"
None of this has anything to do with the percent of EV on the road or the decline of oil powered vehicles.
You put quotes around the first sentence, but I have a feeling those are your own words. I found those words present nowhere else, not in the article or summary.
The article and summary make it clear that the stations to close are because of economic conditions. Basically, if you're only seeing 25% of the gasoline sales seen, say, 20 years earlier, that's a lot less incentive to invest in keeping the pumps up. Which probably cost around the same per year no matter how much you pump.
So if you don't have a
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to https://www.statista.com/topic... [statista.com] ...only 2.8% of the cars in NL in 2021 were fully electric.
A quick google gives you something like 1/3...but this includes HYBRIDS as EVs, and of course Hybrids take petrol.
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Wow, they can draw a line.
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The better idea is to avoid setting arbitrary targets and instead to look at what are the largest impediments to EV adoption and working to lessen or eliminate those. That'll get
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31% of new registrations are fully electric: https://autovista24.autovistag... [autovistagroup.com]
The shift is pretty clear, and with an average age of about 11 years in The Netherlands, in a decade it does appear that there will be far fewer fossil cars on the road and far less demand for the fuel too.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
According to https://www.statista.com/topic... [statista.com] ...only 2.8% of the cars in NL in 2021 were fully electric.
A quick google gives you something like 1/3...but this includes HYBRIDS as EVs, and of course Hybrids take petrol.
Do you not understand the difference between current status and future trends - taking into account changes in regulations influencing those trends?
2.8% fully electric cars *NOW*. Also while PHEVs do take petrol, many of them don't actually use any. The guy across the street from me has a PHEV. He filled up once in the past *year*. It's not just ING who predict this, the industry itself is poised for a wholloping in the retail market which is precisely why a lot of oil majors are slowly getting out of the local petrol station business and consolidating along highways and large service stations where they know their business will be more secure (and also throwing chargers in at those locations).
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So you don't apparently understand the difference between reality and government projections/promises?
The simple fact is that the 'early adopters' are basically saturated, and the rest of the public is less interested in EVs than the fanbois insist they should be.
Not to mention, basically all EVs are passenger vehicles; there are no serious numbers of EV light duty trucks nor semis although EVs are making some headway in some very narrow delivery niches.
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/1... [energy.gov]
Uhhh... Norway (Score:5, Interesting)
A single active charger will deliver about 75MW per year. But you need to have a minimum of 5 chargers in a good location to keep even one "active" as people will avoid queues. So, assume, five chargers will deliver 2.5 times one active. So, 187.5MW/year which is about 120,000 euro.
To install and maintain those five chargers will require justifying an ROI of 3-5 years.
What this means is, small gas stations can't make the change. Especially if they don't want to become fast food restaurants.
In Norway, we made the change and we expect it to take longer up north, they keep cars longer and prefer used over new, and... BEVs still struggled in -25C, but in the tropical south where we're only 5-10 degrees below much of the year, we have all adapted to the EV world. Most of us don't even notice gas stations anymore
Petrol stations (Score:2)
I recently watched a Murco petrol station in the UK be replaced by a brand spanking new BP station.
The problems with this are:
- The Murco never had any customers, as it's in a tiny tinpot little town and is really awkward to get to and park in (basically on a single-lane two-way road, with road parking, so every morning it's just a jam of coaches, school buses, HGVs etc. trying to navigate a tiny town where you cannot make it through without giving way at least 5-6 times... almost every 50m or so).
- There a
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LOL, you really think that deadline will magically make EVs more affordable for peons like me and you?
Yes. Not only because of some fantasy but because it is actually already happening with a big push by EV manufacturers to reduce the costs and bring out lower cost cars.
EVs are cheaper than ever, and are getting cheaper with every release. Bonus points in the UK since they aren't affected by the tariffs recently imposed on the Chinese made cars.
Maybe 2 or 3 decades, but not 1 (Score:2)
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I'm happy to wait to charge, if there were someplace for me to charge.
There isn't, and I can't afford the purchase price.
The manufacturers are putting DRM into battery packs to prevent third party replacement so that they can charge exorbitant prices for replacements, probably as a means of appeasing dealers in order to get them to sell EVs that threaten their ICEV service revenues.
I have never owned a new car, and can't afford to buy a used EV and put a battery pack in it at protectionist prices.
Climate ch
Petrol stations? (Score:2)
Most of them are little supermarkets that sell petrol on the side, since the margin on fuel is not that high. ...
Delhaize, AH to go, Spar, Albert Heijn
Also people go there for the ATM and the Postomats or whatever they are called, where people can get their Amazon packages 24/7.
They'll just slowly replace the pumps with Superchargers.
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No. Most of them are petrol stations which make high margins on other products. Don't confuse convenience with necessity. People buy things from petrol stations because they are there filling up. The vast majority of customers will disappear if the demand for petrol or a key product goes. That key product is rapidly becoming tabaco with the new supermarket sales ban.
Ban sales of tabaco at petrol stations, and they will effectively cease to be. There are far more supermarkets around in more convenient locati
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'No. Most of them are petrol stations which make high margins on other products. Don't confuse convenience with necessity. People buy things from petrol stations because they are there filling up. '
Not where I live. I fill up every 5 weeks (Smart car) but I'm at the station 3-5 times a week, for a sandwich, milk or anything I forgot, to get my Amazon packages and the ATM.
'The vast majority of customers will disappear if the demand for petrol or a key product goes. That key product is rapidly becoming tabaco
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Which may be why they're predicting for many of the petrol stations to close. If people can instead charge when they go to the grocery store, food place, or similar, they probably will.
Even here in the USA I've noticed that gas stations are tending to offer more stuff. Things that you can do in the store that take more time.
Needed (Score:2)
Stay out of the way (Score:2)
There's an old saying that goes something like "People who say it can't be done should stay out of the way of people who are already doing it" and this article about the Netherlands is a perfect example. Lots of posts about the impossibility of doing what the Netherlands has already done. People need to learn the difference between "I can't do it" and "It can't be done". It seems like a lot of people consider these to be synonyms in all sorts of contexts, not just cars.
So... (Score:2)
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They can get literally around 2/3 of it by not refining gasoline. One gallon of gasoline requires enough electrical input (for heat) to move an EV 20 miles.
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Meanwhile (Score:2)
And right at the entrance...a brand new gas station. Did I mention it's 100 feet from the river? Oh, and there's already 4 other gas stations within hal
Badges? We don't need no... (Score:2)
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Followup (Score:2)
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Username checks out.
You're honestly expecting the purchase of electric vehicles won't see a decrease in demand for gas?
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You're honestly expecting the purchase of electric vehicles won't see a decrease in demand for gas?
That's quite possible if, as pointed to in another comment, that nearly all EVs on the market are hybrids. I'm not catching all that's going on here but it looks like there's some kind of government incentive to get people to buy "electric" cars and a hybrid fits that definition. Are these required to be plug-in hybrids to get the incentives? I don't even understand why a car that cannot plug in to charge its battery is considered a "hybrid". I don't recall diesel locomotives being considered any kind o
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>That's quite possible if, as pointed to in another comment, that nearly all EVs on the market are hybrids
Real life purchase statistics would beg to differ:
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
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Real life purchase statistics would beg to differ:
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
The link given is statistics for the USA, the fine article is about Netherlands. How is that relevant?
I don't know if most of the EVs sold in Netherlands are hybrids or not, I'm just taking the word of another comment that it's true. If that's not true then my point still holds, we could shift all new cars to hybrids and so no real reduction in gasoline consumption if people never plug in their hybrids to charge. I don't know the state of home ownership, parking, condition of their electric grid, and suc
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https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org]
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Uh... I just want to point out that shifting all new cars to hybrid would still drop gasoline consumption even if never plugged in. Going from ~25mpg to 50mpg would tend to do that.
And yes, electrical wiring needs to be improved pretty much world wide. Heck, they're doing it in my area now.
Still, what if they could charge at work or such?
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At home the battery is charged every night because running on it is so much cheaper than buying gasoline.
Sure not everyone has the ability to charge at home but in The Netherlands we have the most public chargers per capita and more are build every day.
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Actually, the sales figures for 2024 are 1. Kia (not hybrid), 2.Volvo (some hybrids) and 3. Toyota (not hybrid). Keep on misinforming though.
sauce: https://www.autoweek.nl/verkoo... [autoweek.nl]
"3. Toyota (not hybrid)? " Not likely. Toyota only makes one full EV. https://www.toyota.com/electri... [toyota.com]
They are selling hybrids like crazy though
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Re:Don't count your chickens before they explode (Score:5, Insightful)
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You know an entire service industry exists that will temporary lend you a piece of equipment you only need to use once in awhile?
Your comment is hilarious to me. For years in Australia I drove a tiny little hatchback. The number of times that prevented me driving down the beach in a 4wd only area when I went camping: 0. And renting a 4wd was cheaper than owning one instead of the hatchback.
My brother in law doesn't own a car. That didn't stop him driving over to visit either.
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That might signal an opportunity for you to get into business? Rental cars are half the price in the USA as you quote. You only need to book in advance if you're trying to rent during a popular time in the area you're at. Be a bit flexible in the car you get.
As for "added expense", well, subtract the gasoline you use normally. It's like the difference between paying an extra $100/month to buy and operate a truck (purchase price, insurance, gasoline, and maintenance all go up), vs just paying Home Depot
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I do calculations all the time of compatible EVs to my ICE and what gas costs me versus how much more the EV would cost. I can't afford the EV version of my vehicle, so it
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And when everybody needs to drive over the river and through the woods to grandma's house and the demand for long-range vehicles exceeds supply?
Alternatively, the agencies hold enough stock for Mother's Day, Thanksgiving & Christmas [and apparently July4, I saw a lot of Illinois and Indiana plates in Michigan yesterday] the rental rates will naturally have to cover the capex/depreciation for that large idle fleet.
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It's not the average trip that matters but the longest trip. Most people can't afford to have two cars using one for short trips and the other for long trips. If your one and only car is unable to handle a trip you make even once a year then you're faced with the extra cost of renting a car for that trip.
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It's not the average trip that matters but the longest trip. Most people can't afford to have two cars using one for short trips and the other for long trips. If your one and only car is unable to handle a trip you make even once a year then you're faced with the extra cost of renting a car for that trip.
EVs are fully capable of long trips.
They're just slightly less convenient since it will take 30min to refuel instead of 5min on the highway.
Of course, most people don't drive 5 hours straight, even on a road trip. If charging infrastructure becomes fairly ubiquitous then EVs are arguably more convenient, since instead of 5 min filling the tank + 5 min looking for a gas station you just pull into the rest stop and plug in while eating / stretching your legs.
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Maybe in 10 years time the battery technology will have advanced to the point where an EV is better across the board than its gasoline equivalent.
In the Netherlands the EV is better across the board than gasoline equivalent. Sure in 10 years time you'll still have republicans and democrats sucking the cock of Ford in the USA, but the Netherlands is not that. Heck even the typical "my country is soo big" stupid comment doesn't work in this case with every EV on the market literally able to cross the entire country without needing a charge point.
Not that that's an issue in a country with the largest number of charging points per capita in the world.
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The Netherlands on its own is small sure, but it's part of the EU with open borders between countries.
Just like a US citizen can drive across state lines, an EU citizen can drive around the EU. People from the Netherlands frequently drive into Germany or Belgium, and many can drive much further afield. It's not uncommon to see NL plate cars in southern spain. A quick check on google maps shows its 2092km from rotterdam to malaga just to pick two random places.
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You are absolutely right but missing the point. The overwhelming majority of drives are local and require local infrastructure. Long distance infrastructure does not need to be built out. It's why you can drive your Tesla from California to New York while people at either end are still bitching about EVs being too inconvenient for them as a daily driver.
Long international trips aren't an issue. The EU has an interconnected and wildly available charging network. I have colleagues who took their EVs on skiing
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Depends on the country, trains in the netherlands france and germany are quite good, but in spain not so much. You also might find yourself changing trains multiple times depending where you're going, and your choice of locations to stop for food/overnight are more limited.
There is of course the option to fly, but that's no different from the US.
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Most of it on longer trips, say around 300-800 mi. to places like Belgium, France, Germany and Denmark.
The only 'problem' I see is the price of charging differs greatly, like a Tesla Supercharger in Holland costs around 22 cents per kW while it might be double that in Germany.
But in Europe it's still cheaper than gasoline or Diesel.
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like a Tesla Supercharger in Holland costs around 22 cents per kW while it might be double that in Germany
What wait? You serious, or has it been a long time since you checked? That would put Tesla's at a huge discount to normal chargers. In network Shell Recharge currently bills at around 53c/kWh on a Level 2 charger. For a supercharger it's just shy of 70c.
But in Europe it's still cheaper than gasoline or Diesel.
Actually for a brief period just after the Ukraine war hit, it actually wasn't, and this despite a price spike in petrol as well. That said that was a curious and temporary glitch in the market.
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Yes before I got a new contract I checked all suppliers and found Tesla to be the cheapest.
The first year I had a Nissan contract with Ionity costing 30 cent per kW most places in Europe but that expired after 12 months and theydoubled the price to 60 cent.
Shell is reasonable but only at their own chargers which are far appart.
For a while I used Maingau but a couple of months ago they increased their prices and are no longer competitive.
When you are German and have a h
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no it wont, there's billions of used ICE cars out there
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no it wont, there's billions of used ICE cars out there
That's important if you're buying a used car soon, but the thing about cars is that they have a finite life. Eventually your used car will not be sold to be drive but sold to be scrapped. Your next car may not be an EV, but the one after almost certainly will be.
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For every time someone writes something up about EVs, there are 10 articles about EVs becoming mandatory sooner and sooner.
Deal with it: Your next car is going to be an EV, or no car, so pick your EV or get a bicycle.
You keep coming here and saying that, but I'm totally looking at my next new really fun non-EV car right now. I'll continue to ride my bike as well so take the wins where you can.
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but I'm totally looking at my next new really fun non-EV car right now.
If you want a truly fun car get an EV. It's funny seeing the Porsche drivers cry crocodile tears when they get trounced by a family sedan going around the Nürburgring.
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