Logitech Says the 'Forever Mouse' Was Just an Idea 81
Logitech has quashed its earlier remarks about building a subscription-based mouse, following widespread backlash to comments made by CEO Hanneke Faber. The Swiss-American computer peripherals maker clarified that the "forever mouse" concept, mentioned by Faber in a recent podcast interview, was merely speculative internal discussion and not a planned product.
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Now that they have multi-device mice and keyboards, it would be better if the software used the edge detection to tell the mouse to switch devices rather than emulate hardware on the remote device. Though to do this without custom drivers and be corporate approved, the mouse and keyboard receiver might have to do more than just implement HID mouse and HID keyboard to have an interface to receive the commands. It's very nearly able to run user-level at that point.
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"this feature works great and is very handy!"
"hmm, i have a better idea, what if it worked less great"
you should get a job in SV for sure
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I am sad they pulled the idea back. Imagine what a Beowulf cluster of forever smart mice could do! I bet no computer would be needed anymore.
Re:Logitech keyboard & mouse (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup, that's a handy driver and something that's been around (via other products) since the early 2000's. I remember seeing the logi version and reminiscing when i had 2, 3, even 4 computers going at once and hated the KVMs.
The problem is this kind of stuff is what manufacturers will (and have) seek to turn into a service so they can bill you every month. le sigh...
That said, this is definitely a security risk depending on the situation and how it's implemented. You're basically installing a IP KVM with ... who knows what security. I no longer trust vendors to do things the simple and secure way.
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This particular example seems like something that could be easily done by a third party utility.
Yup:
https://github.com/coddingtonb... [github.com]
It looks like there's a whole open source pedigree for versions that don't require specific hardware too:
https://github.com/debauchee/b... [github.com]
My mouse is fine (Score:3)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's why you use Logitech mice with Macs.
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Re: My mouse is fine (Score:2)
As the ancients used to say: buy your mouse and keyboard from Microsoft, and the rest of your computer from Apple.
Re: My mouse is fine (Score:4, Funny)
And compile your OS from source.
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Microsoft is the last place to buy mouse or keyboard. The ergo keyboard is not very ergonomic, and the mice are generic and no more or less reliable than the competition.
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What's a good substitute for the MX Master?
I haven't really seen anything that scrolls so nicely switching between fast and regular scrolling.
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The Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 is still what I have. I have a few stockpiled for when they wear out. I want to try the Sculpt just to save space but also don't want to have anything change.
Whether you think the keyboard is "very" ergonomic, it sure beats a flat rectangle any day. Especially the one Apple provides.
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You might wanna get with the times, it's been a LONG time since Apple put out mice with only 1 button.
Currently, the Magic Mouse [apple.com] has NO buttons....but you can right and left tap your fingers for left and right button action.
It's fine to bitch about things with Apple, but choose your battles...the mouse 1-button thing has been long gone for awhile now.
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Can even use the a third button. The magic mouse is awful in my experience, but it handles a ton of gestures because it's essentially just a touch screen. The earlier Mighty Mouse was great though - the small ball acted as a third button, and it also allowed scrolling in any direction (at least on MacOS). It also had side buttons! I liked it much better.
Magic Mouse was useless for games (Score:2)
The Magic Mouse required you to lift your left finger to right-click, so you couldn't simultaneously press both virtual buttons. This made it useless for e.g. Team Fortress 2 where you hold the right button to spin up the Heavy's gun, then press the left button (while still holding the right button) to fire. It couldn't deal with any situation that required pressing buttons simultaneously. Also, "lift left finger to simulate right button" is a cute novelty at first, but it's much worse ergonomically than
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You might wanna get with the times, it's been a LONG time since Apple put out mice with only 1 button.
Right, but they still don't have one with two. They currently have a mouse with a trackpad on top and the ergonomics of the haptic feedback aren't up to par with two buttons. Their full size external trackpads aren't bad
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Macally sells PC mice for Macs. They've been around for decades. I still use a Macally Qball for my server's emergency console as it doesn't take up much shelf space.
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I'm still waiting for PCs to have three buttons.
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I replaced the faulty switch with an OMRON. They used some kind of clone with the same foot print, so it was trivial to replace both (middle is a different switch on this mouse). After shipping I had about $12 into the repair of a $40 mouse. I anticipate everything else on this mouse will fail before that switch will.
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I expect the left button to start double clicking in a year or two.
I have never had a mouse do this, only problem I have had with some very cheap ebay mice was the scroll wheel, and on another one, RGB lights stopped working
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Get a mouse with optical sensors. No clicking, ever.
Will need cleaning every few years in a dusty environment though.
"Just an idea" (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't think it's quite what happened:
I think Logitech knew perfectly well the idea is totally outrageous, but floated it anyway to see if there was a slight change the customers might actually swallow it. We pushed back, so now they say it was "just an idea". Yeah... but a very deliberate, very serious idea - just one that didn't stick.
They'll try again. They all try. All the time. And we the consumers need to tell them to fuck right off each. and. every. time. Because if we don't, they'll do it eventuall
Re:"Just an idea" (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think it's quite what happened:
I think Logitech knew perfectly well the idea is totally outrageous, but floated it anyway to see if there was a slight change the customers might actually swallow it. We pushed back, so now they say it was "just an idea". Yeah... but a very deliberate, very serious idea - just one that didn't stick.
They'll try again. They all try. All the time. And we the consumers need to tell them to fuck right off each. and. every. time. Because if we don't, they'll do it eventually.
I see your view, but think it may be naive. I think the more likely scenario is they'll float it a few times to see if there's backlash, then one day it'll just magically appear. And when uptake isn't quite what they were expecting, they'll double-down, stop selling non-forever-payment peripherals, and one of the last decent peripheral manufacturers will begin their swan song, a familiar song of greed overcoming engineering and logic.
These ideas don't just go away once they strike a company. They become embedded in the very structure of the company, being brought up in every meeting as the future day-dream of forever payments for a product that should be a one time purchase. It's also reinforced everywhere in our society, and I can't believe how many people fall for it.
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It's also reinforced everywhere in our society, and I can't believe how many people fall for it.
This, exactly. And the problem with so many people falling for it is that soon, paying rent for everything you might otherwise own will become almost impossible to avoid, even for those of us who are insistent on owning our stuff.
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It was actually just new CEO being asked for potential ideas for the company.
She started throwing out shit like AI integration, and subscriptions. Basically buzzword generator in real life. Problem is that buzzwords have meaning, and you're pretending to lead a hardware company, not a software one. Subscription mouse from a mouth of a cunt who leads a company famous for it's extremely durable hardware was obviously going to cause a meltdown among people who know logitech by its longstanding reputation, beca
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Logi continues their super-excited product development of dead-end products. Everyone needs a keyboard and mouse ... some people will pay lots for something fancy. Ok.
Everyone else, the difference between a $25 keyboard and $250 keyboard is negligible. Heck, for some cheapy offices I've seen I'd rather the clean $10 keyboard than the nasty fancy one.
Just an idea -- a bad one (Score:5, Interesting)
This is what's called floating a trial balloon. Fortunately it got shot down, with a little collateral damage to Logitech's reputation. If it hadn't caused a fuss, you can bet it would have been implemented ASAP.
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Logitech might've thought twice about putting alternating red and white concentric circles on their balloon.
What, you can get a branded version from TARGET?
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Mouse leasing (Score:2)
People should look into leasing a mouse instead of taking out a 60-month loan to pay for one.
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This is what's called floating a trial balloon. Fortunately it got shot down
Can you imagine what would have happened to that balloon if Logitech were a Chinese company?
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A few thousand fewer avid readers of tech. news sites? Or a few less tech. news sites... Or both.
Re:Just an idea -- a bad one (Score:4, Interesting)
This is it right here.
And anyone doubting it should look at he history of trial balloons in general, including politics.
Microsoft once filed a patent for the kinect to detect the number of people in a room so it could charge for PPV streams per person. You think they didn't do it to be nice? No, they got bad feedback as soon as it hit the press.
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I'll add on that it's a great way to test an idea that doesn't have strong support from inside the organization.
1. Have a revenue generating idea.
2. Get some pushback within the org.
3. Float a trial balloon.
4. Balloon gets popped.
5. Go back to the team that pushed back and say, "OK. You were right."
I know some people absolutely lost their minds at this process and were acting like the mouse they use and every mouse in the future would be usable by subscription only, but if there's a good enough business and
A companion for the IBM Model M keyboard (Score:3)
This is what's called floating a trial balloon. Fortunately it got shot down, with a little collateral damage to Logitech's reputation. If it hadn't caused a fuss, you can bet it would have been implemented ASAP.
Sadly I will miss not having a mouse comparable to the IBM Model M keyboard.
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This is what's called floating a trial balloon.
I disagree. Trial balloons typically aren't quite so blazingly stupid - they'll usually appeal to *someone*, even if it's just to a minority of the target audience.
This appealed to exactly *no one*. It reads more like someone new to a high role in the company (e.g. CEO) came up with a really bad idea, but the underlings were too scared or sycophantic to tell that person just how awful an idea it was.
Lead Balloon (Score:2)
This is what's called floating a trial balloon.
Next time they should try not making it of lead if they want to avoid looking stupid.
Trial balloon popped (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that it was suggested and got far enough to be mentioned to the public is very informative about how the company views its customers. Walking back the statement doesn't change the fact that they wanted to try it, and that same attitude influences everything they do.
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It's how all companies view their customers. They are not your friends. They are not looking out for your best interests. Everything they do is designed to maximize profits. Everything. That includes pretending to care about social issues.
Every for-profit company wants to lock you into a subscription, without exception. It doesn't matter if it makes any sense. Automakers are already selling customers "upgrades" to your car that just unlock features already built-in! Want heated seats? For just $20 a
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It will be back. Remember it was 20+ years ago when Bill Gates suggested the future of the computer industry was purely subscription based. Look how much now is. All because of his vision of greed. Hard to pirate subscription software. Im sure this mouse rental idea isnt dead. Buy unless they can do same-day delivery when my mouse dies, its not very forever now is it?
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Snap-on is now made in china by the same place Craftsman, Cobalt, and Harbor Freight hand tools are made. None of them are worth a shit. The lifetime warranty doesnt means it wont break. It just means they replace them. Those craptastic turds still force you to drive your ass to the store and get it swapped out. A lifetime guarantee used to be an indicator of quality. Who would put a warranty on something they know is going to break a lot. Apparently everyone. Because your $15 wrench costs $0.33 for some Mu
Floating Lead Balloons (Score:2)
The fact that it was suggested and got far enough to be mentioned to the public is very informative about how the company views its customers
All companies today view their customers as walking bags of money that need to be lightened. What's different here is that nobody at the company had the brains to see that this very clearly was not going to work which speaks to the level of competence in the management team. Yes, sometimes it is good to float ideas to get feedback but, when the idea is for a lead balloon you are going to look like an idiot if you try to float it.
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Just as an FYI... The Myth Busters actually made a lead balloon and got it airborne.
Yes. A bad idea. (Score:4, Informative)
I have a Logitech "Forever Mouse".
It's a M557 Bluetooth mouse which is (I think) 10 or 15 years old and still works perfectly with all of the devices I have used it with over the years.
What I don't have is a "subscription fee" to keep paying for the mouse I own to add features I don't want or need.
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Re: Yes. A bad idea. (Score:2)
You'll just have to pedal harder.
Idea...like clamping a car battery to your nuts? (Score:5, Interesting)
You get the job done and do it respectably. You don't excite us. We won't pay a subscription fee for your product. We'll pay a little extra because you're a good brand, but not a lot.
If I'm going to go forever... (Score:2)
...I'm going Kensington, not Logitech, for mice, and I'm going IBM/Unicomp for keyboards, not Logitech.
I did have to stop using my M13 keyboard at work though, even with the dentalfloss-mod it was too loud in the cubicle farm and I was getting strange looks.
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Go ahead, Logitech. Try it. I dare you!
okay... (Score:2)
It was just an idea, a joke really, (Score:2)
Good thinking, Faber, still might be a bonus in it for ya!
Odd way to frame it (Score:2)
Why not just call it a lifetime warranty, rather than a "subscription", or were they planning on sending you a new mouse every year regardless of whether you needed it ?!
I can think of many product categories where a subscription might make sense (underwear, perhaps), but mice is not one of them.
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Why not just call it a lifetime warranty, rather than a "subscription", or were they planning on sending you a new mouse every year regardless of whether you needed it ?!
I can think of many product categories where a subscription might make sense (underwear, perhaps), but mice is not one of them.
Inkjet Printer functionality (with ink that artificially "expires" electronically every month)....
Logitech has 2 strikes (Score:2)
Huh. Next time I buy, I will consider other brands ahead of Logitech if it is possible. Actually I seldom base the purchase of peripherals on price alone. A subscription fee, or a PC-only software requirement, or any software requirement, is a definite no-go. Any phone-home telemetry would be an absolute no-go for me, even if it is not a keylogger. I'm not a gamer so there's that. The only relevant add-on software I have is Karabiner Elements, which was a one or two shot fix for a Keychron mapping and never
It's a joke (Score:2)
"You came to me / like the dawn through the night" (Score:2)
I think it was the part at the end (Score:2)
"I’m going to ask this very directly. Can you envision a subscription mouse?
Possibly.
And that would be the forever mouse?
Yeah.
So you pay a subscription for software updates to your mouse.
Yeah, and you never have to worry about it again, which is not unlike our video conferencing services today.
But it’s a mouse.
But it’s a mouse, yeah.
I think consumers might perceive those to be very different.
[Laughs] Yes, but it’s gorgeous. Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse."
FFS. Diamond-
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Bus Mouse (Score:1)
My logitech mouseman bus mouse still works and it is my all time most favorite mouse.
Got it in 96 so say 9.99 a month for 336 months, 3,356.64.
That is an outstanding service to me.
Schrodinger's Douchebag... (Score:2)
"Wait! You thought we were serious?"
They 100% want to get in on the you-don't-own-anything bandwagon. Maybe they can partner with BMW and have a heated subscription mouse.
One of their best ideas (Score:4, Interesting)
Bring back the Marble Mouse! (Score:2)
Hey Logitech CEO, if you want a good idea, bring back the Marble Mouse. It would be even better if you made it wireless. That is all.
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They make at least a couple of replacements for the Trackman Marble, which was a thumb trackball. I am using one right now, the M570. The switches have gone to crap. I got some other-brand replacements and haven't got around to installing them yet, I am also waiting for a new solder sucker to show up in the mail anyway.
Do you mean the one with the big center trackball? They also confusingly called that the Marble, because why not?
Got ahead of themselves (Score:2)
April 1 isn't for another 8 months.
No, that was your outside voice (Score:2)
"was merely speculative internal discussion" (Score:2)
At least they didn't follow the route of HP (Score:2)
i am pretty sure that they would have implemented (Score:2)
What software does a mouse need? (Score:2)
A mouse is very much a standardized thing. I don't expect it to require any software but what the operating system already provides.
can I get a refund on my (Score:2)