Volvo Backtracks On 2030 EV-Only Pledge (electrek.co) 147
Volvo now says it will push back its deadline to sell only electric vehicles by 2030, citing the need for stronger government support. "The new plans call for 90 to 100% of global sales to be electrified, including EVs and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs)," reports Electrek. "The other up to 10% will be "a limited number of hybrids" if needed. By 2025, Volvo expects 50 to 60% of sales to be electrified." From the report: Volvo was one of the first automakers to set a 100% EV sales goal by 2030. The announcement was made over three years ago in March 2021. The plan was to sell only fully electric cars while phasing out "any car in its global portfolio with an internal combustion engine, including hybrids." [...]
Volvo has already launched five all-electric models: the EX40, EC40, EX30, EM90, and the EX90. After delivering its first model in January, the Volvo EX30 is already the third best-selling EV in Europe. Another five EVs are in development. However, Volvo said the shift comes as the charging infrastructure rollout has been out slower than expected, and government incentives have been withdrawn. Volvo is calling for stronger and more stable government policies to support the transition to EVs.
Volvo also adjusted its CO2 reduction goal. The company aims to reduce CO2 emissions per car by 65% to 75% by 2030 (using 2018 as a baseline). That's down from the previous 75% reduction target. Next year, Volvo aims for a 30 to 35% reduction (with 2018 as a baseline), down from 40%. The company is still working with suppliers to cut CO2 emissions across its value chain. "We are resolute in our belief that our future is electric," said Volvo Cars CEO Jim Rowan. "An electric car provides a superior driving experience."
Despite this, "it is clear that the transition to electrification will not be linear, and customers and markets are moving at different speeds of adoption," Rowan explained.
Volvo has already launched five all-electric models: the EX40, EC40, EX30, EM90, and the EX90. After delivering its first model in January, the Volvo EX30 is already the third best-selling EV in Europe. Another five EVs are in development. However, Volvo said the shift comes as the charging infrastructure rollout has been out slower than expected, and government incentives have been withdrawn. Volvo is calling for stronger and more stable government policies to support the transition to EVs.
Volvo also adjusted its CO2 reduction goal. The company aims to reduce CO2 emissions per car by 65% to 75% by 2030 (using 2018 as a baseline). That's down from the previous 75% reduction target. Next year, Volvo aims for a 30 to 35% reduction (with 2018 as a baseline), down from 40%. The company is still working with suppliers to cut CO2 emissions across its value chain. "We are resolute in our belief that our future is electric," said Volvo Cars CEO Jim Rowan. "An electric car provides a superior driving experience."
Despite this, "it is clear that the transition to electrification will not be linear, and customers and markets are moving at different speeds of adoption," Rowan explained.
Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Informative)
They're able to make EVs that cost less than the ICE vehicles they're replacing (at seeming light speed).
Volvo is China. They are part of the Zhejiang Geely Holding Group. They also know how to make EVs just fine and have an extensive line-up.
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I was looking for this comment.
Knowing that Volvo is a Chinese brand makes me think that this announcement is purely political.
You'd think that Volvo would be a perfect vector for injection of Chinese EVs into Western markets.
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Cars are basically global products now.
Volvo is Chinese owned but still designed in Sweden and (mostly) made in Europe, primarily Belgium and Sweden.
You can take trips to the Gothenburg plant and buy a Volvo fresh from the factory if you want, to save on tariffs.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/l... [volvocars.com]
They have switched to some Chinese components and will probably switch to more over time. IIRC, the doors are made in China, probably a lot of the body parts. When Ford bought Volvo, people didn't call it an American
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Knowing that Volvo is a Chinese brand makes me think that this announcement is purely political.
No, I think it's a reflection of market dynamics. It's 2024, only 6 years until 2030. EVs made up only 12.1% of EU new registrations in 2023 - this is actually down slightly from 2022. Even as (if?) the EV market share rises by 2030 it will still leave a considerable chunk of cars that are ICE. That's a lot of market share to ignore simply because you're not building that type of car, especially in an industry where margins are slim and you rely a lot on volume to make profit.
Volvo's announcement didn't bac
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They're able to make EVs that cost less than the ICE vehicles they're replacing (at seeming light speed).
Amazing what you can accomplish with a command economy!
The CCP says it shall be, and it shall be. Workers are trained. Technologies are prioritized. Production is scheduled. Costs are subsidized. Prices are set.
There are many downsides to a command economy, but it can do great things.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
Yeah, with the bigoted bollocks.
Fyi, many volvos are made in China, as well as the US and Europe.
We can't afford to do it right... (Score:2)
We can only afford to go extinct. At least that was the joke I was looking for.
However the latest root of that joke is in the very interesting A Thousand Minds by Jeff Hawkins. He mentions the flashbulb resolution of the Fermi Paradox...
As for your [dwater's] comment, I didn't really get your point or understand why you propagated the vacuous AC FP Subject. Not that AC seeks thoughtful discussion, but often it seems the only thing AC seeks is to (anonymously, of course) propagate the stupidest meme availa
Re:Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Insightful)
Go slave labor!
Chinese factory workers are not "slaves". They are paid a decent middle-class wage, enough to afford an apartment and a scooter, and can change jobs at will, something no "slave" can do.
The biggest EV factories are in Pu Dong, just east of Shanghai. It is one of the most affluent regions in China, with median incomes above the EU.
Fuck the environment!
Manufacturing an EV is not particularly dirty, and the environmental advantage of the gasoline not consumed far outweighs the manufacturing.
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Chinese factory workers are not "slaves". They are paid a decent middle-class wage, enough to afford an apartment and a scooter, and can change jobs at will, something no "slave" can do.
Agreed. Person you replied to is a jackass.
The biggest EV factories are in Pu Dong, just east of Shanghai. It is one of the most affluent regions in China, with median incomes above the EU.
Not for factory workers. Median factory worker makes ~16k USD/yr.
Not slavery... but also pretty fucking terrible money, even adjusted for their PPP.
Manufacturing an EV is not particularly dirty, and the environmental advantage of the gasoline not consumed far outweighs the manufacturing.
Bullshit. Bayan Obo says hi.
Rare Earth mining in China has, practically speaking, no environmental controls and has turned chunks of land into wastelands.
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Rare Earth mining in China has, practically speaking, no environmental controls and has turned chunks of land into wastelands.
Yes, but the rare earths used in American and European EVs come from the same mines.
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Rare earth mining is a problem of EVs, not EVs of $yourNationality.
It's not that rare earth mining *has* to be dirty, it just is, because China.
And the fact is, EVs are highly dependent on rare earths, so that does make them particularly dirty, de facto, not de jure.
Catalyst are worse (Score:2)
Fact 1: There is far far more mining for rare earth for use in engine exhaust cats and for use in oil refining processes as catalysts than for use in electric motors and batteries
Fact 2: All the rare earths used in motors and batteries are 100% closed loop recyclable, while half of catalysts are lost in an open loop
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The metals used in catalytic converters are platinum, palladium, and rhodium.
Those are not rare earth elements.
Rare earth elements [wikipedia.org]
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"100% closed loop recyclable" I guess we can type anything we want onto our computer screens, regardless of truth.
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Your stupid video doesn't contradict the facts presented by the parent in any way.
I guess we can type anything we want onto our computer screens, regardless of truth.
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I see you have trouble both reading and watching videos somehow. It's amazing you haven't accidentally drowned yourself in the shower...
The 'fact' that buck-yar was trying to contradict is that the "rare earths" in "motors and batteries" were "100% close loop recyclable". He did so by posting a video of a moron smashing a battery pack with a hammer and make-shift wedge.
My post correctly points out that his stupid video did not contradict the 'facts' presented by the parent in any way.
This isn't complicate
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Your stupid video doesn't contradict the facts presented by the parent in any way.
There were no facts for which the video could possibly contradict.
Let's evaluate:
Fact 1: There is far far more mining for rare earth for use in engine exhaust cats and for use in oil refining processes as catalysts than for use in electric motors and batteries
Ok, we're talking about cerium here, which is barely a rare-earth. It's so not-rare, it's actually mined all over the world, rather than just China.
Average of 75g per cat.
Current price of the Cerium Oxides used? ~$1700 per metric ton.
Current price of Neodymium? $64000 per metric ton. So, ok, good gotcha there- they do use 75g of a rare earth that is cheaper and more readily available than copper.
A single-motor m
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Wow, you really are stupid.
I made no claims about the veracity of the parent's facts. I only correctly pointed out that his stupid video didn't contradict anything the parent claimed. Learn how to read.
Ok, we're talking about cerium here, which is barely a rare-earth.
LOL! So, when confronted with facts that contradict your bullshit, you double down? Your claim that catalytic converters do not contain rare earth elements is clearly false. Get over it.
This is a flat-out lie.
Prove it.
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I made no claims about the veracity of the parent's facts.
Only that you attested that they were facts.
I only correctly pointed out that his stupid video didn't contradict anything the parent claimed. Learn how to read.
Nice try at gaslighting, dumbfuck.
Your stupid video doesn't contradict the facts presented by the parent in any way.
No, you incorrectly pointed out that his stupid video didn't contradict the facts as you called them, that the parent asserted. ;)
A fact has no veracity. It is simply a fact. Only claims have veracity. But I'm sure you knew that
And now you're trying to gaslight your way out of it, to the point of trying to recharacterize what you said. You really are fucking pathetic.
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While pointing out your stupidity, I forgot to answer your stupid question:
Here you go [americangeosciences.org]
Oops, I forgot that you have a lot of trouble reading. Here is the relevant part:
Cerium-based catalysts are used in automotive catalytic converters
You can avoid posting stupid things in the future by checking your facts before you hit submit. If that's too much trouble, you can always just stop posting.
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There are no rare earths in a catalytic converter.
Fuck off, shill.
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They are paid a decent middle-class wage, enough to afford an apartment and a scooter
wat
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They are paid a decent middle-class wage, enough to afford an apartment and a scooter
wat
Hey man, the apartment may be twelve square feet, and the scooter one that you'd be better off strapping on your back and carrying, but they can afford a place to sleep! That's middle class!
Or at least, I'm guessing that's what the person your responding to intended to try to get across. I guess anything short of sleeping in the gutter is middle class now. Which, I suppose in a few years, will probably apply here in the States as well.
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Chinese factory workers are not "slaves"
Depends on the factory. For poly silicon, a substantial fraction is produced with slave labour. Bit of a problem for solar panels, because everything must suck. There is slave labour providing parts through supply chains. Maybe not the factory floor people actually assembling bits from cars, but the chance there isn't slave labour going into those cars somewhere? Low.
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This video makes the point fairly well. "Happiness." The story of a rodent's unrelenting quest for happiness and fulfillment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I used to work with chinese factories in my job.
All of them?
https://www.shu.ac.uk/helena-k... [shu.ac.uk]
Slave labour is happening right now at scale in China.
Next you'll be telling me China doesn't have political prisoners because you've worked with Chinese people and never saw one.
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so...just like the US did it?
Yes, unfortunately. (Score:2)
All which I can offer in justification is that we really didn't understand as clearly then as we do now what is at stake. Even now, many of us in the US are aghast at the recent deregulation of multiple industries (petroleum comes screaming to mind, personally). Those regulations were in fact well thought out. They didn't spring forth fully formed and highly detailed from nowhere, they came from what we learned so that we would not repeat those mistakes.
(US to China): "Don't do what we did, even though
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Really?
I thought on another thread you were arguing strongly for Kamala....and she's spouted some pretty communistic leanings over her years, and just the other day, she said "my values haven't changed"....
Unless I have you mixed up for someone else, I thought you'd line up ideologically pretty well with them.
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No US politician comes close to espousing anything that could be construes as Chinese ideology. Particularly because there simply is no analogue.
The Chinese agree with one of our parties on some things, the other on other things, and neither of them on most.
Pull your fucking head out of your ass, you ignorant piece of shit. You and your stupid fucking partisan ilk going to be the death of us all.
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So you believe they have 100% slave labor in their EV factories and 0% slave labor in their ICE factories?
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what complete bullshit
Re:Meanwhile in China... (Score:4, Interesting)
What makes you think this is bullshit? Chinese car companies are in the European market and do actually compete on cost. Notice that their truly cheap EVs aren't on sale in Europe? There's a reason something like the BYD Seagull Honour sells in Europe under a different model name with a significantly higher set of base features and a higher cost - regulations.
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Then why impose a 100% tariff? Why not just say they don't meet standards and allow the ones that do to compete on equal ground?
The tariff is to cover Chinese government subsidies and level the playing field not to protect the European car brands, but to protect the factories. Also there is no 100% tariff in Europe. It's a 38% tariff which is reducible pending a supply chain analysis. E.g. Chinese major BYD has only a 17.4% tariff on EU imports from China despite the cars being wholly made in China. Volvo (Geely) has a 0% tariff on the XC30 because it's made in Beligum for the EU market. Tesla pay a 9% tariff due to dependence on Ch
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The cheap EV in China won't pass inspection in EU
They've already passed inspection in the EU and were selling well before the tariffs were jacked up.
watch videos of those cheap overpowered golf carts tipping over on curves or rebounding off objects and rolling
Bullcrap. If such videos existed, you would have linked to them.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2, Informative)
Like this?
https://youtu.be/tmOtWGkCz5c [youtu.be]
Or this?
https://www.carscoops.com/2024... [carscoops.com]
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I'm not an expert, but I think the existence of fires involving cars was not in question? Which reminds me, I haven't watched TV in ages, what happens in when an EV in the cinematic universe has an accident, does this summon the wrath of Thor, or are we still using spectacular gasoline explosions?
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That's in no way exclusive to BYD. Teslas sometimes burst into flames, too. [youtube.com]
Hell, the entire reason I was able to get such a good deal on my Chevy Bolt was due to the battery recall. Now you might figure I'm daft for wanting to drive around in a car powered by something that can burst into flames when things go wrong, but you can say exactly the same thing about gasoline. In fact, I've actually recorded my own video once of an ICE car ablaze on the side of I-4 in Orlando.
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EVs are less likely to tip over since batteries put their centre of gravity lower to the ground the weight means their righting force is greater. With sufficient speed /ditch / ramp I'm sure they can be flipped but ICE vehicles are obviously more vulnerable to it happening.
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No one has to watch your alt-right bullshit.
For anyone curious, his videos don't prove anything other than his own credulity.
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They've already passed inspection in the EU and were selling well before the tariffs were jacked up.
No they didn't. The cars for sale on the EU market are not the same as those ultra cheap ones on the Chinese market, and that is also reflected in both the price and the minimum configurable feature list.
Re:Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Interesting)
I own and drive a Chinese EV, in Europe. It was cheap and barring some slightly janky infotainment software is an exceptional vehicle to drive. Build quality is good, it's spacious, it's responsive and I really enjoy driving it. It also has a 5 star Euro NCAP rating, meaning it provides good protection for driver, occupants, cyclists and pedestrians. It probably offers better protection than many US domestic vehicles, especially trucks since US safety tests don't give AF about cyclists or pedestrians.
Now China is a big country. I am 100% certain that there are some electric (and ICE) automotive manufacturers who pump out garbage vehicles for domestic consumption, or less profitable export markets (Pakistan, India, Africa etc) where quality or safety isn't their overarching concern. However the major manufacturers like SAIC, Geely, BYD etc. are more than capable of producing vehicles that meet and exceed all the safety and quality requirements that the US, Europe, Australia can throw at them.
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I own and drive a Chinese EV, in Europe.
To be clear, you own a Chinese made EV for the European market. These aren't the same cars as the ultra cheap things being made for Chinese roads. Even with the same model name you will find not only a 5 digit difference in price but a very different feature list in the minimum configurable base model. They may have in common with each other the frame, upholstery, motor and batteries, but the similarities end there.
There's a reason why the BYD Seal costs 12500EUR in China and 42000EUR in Europe, and that di
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A BYD Seal made for China is essentially the same BYD Seal made for Europe. It might have different trim, or variations in safety equipment but it's essentially the same car. It's not like they make one flimsy version for their own market and deck out the other with nice stuff. As for price difference the reason is quite simple - shipping, middle men, dealers, VAT, the market being able to bear more, tariffs etc.
And as I said, maybe some automakers do make other models for other markets which are sucky deat
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Modern cars are all about the software. When you put your foot on the brake, there's no direct linkage to the brake pads - some software decides how much to apply the actual brakes.
There isn't a car safety test in the world that *actually* checks the safety of the car, when you think about software running things. Sure, in the test, they put their foot on the brake and the car stopped in the required time, but they absolutely do not check all the edge cases.
Honestly, all safety checks are "old school" and d
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but they absolutely do not check all the edge cases.
This is my favorite bit of programmer bullshit. What "edge cases" are they not checking? Be specific.
all safety checks are "old school" and don't take into account modern "fly by wire"
Have any evidence to support that? (FYI, it's "drive by wire" (XBW) not "fly by wire". Cars do not fly. Your example is "brake by wire" (BBW). I'm no expert, but it took all of 5 seconds to contradict your assertion and discover those terms.)
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> This is my favorite bit of programmer bullshit. What "edge cases" are they not checking? Be specific.
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't include a full test plan for you. Silly me - I thought I was leaving a comment, not a full paper for peer review.
> Have any evidence to support that?
Find me *any* government safety tests that review the software, and I'll happily concede the point.
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I'm sorry I didn't include a full test plan for you
So ... You can't name a single "edge case" that wasn't checked. I'm not even a little bit surprised. When a programmer says "edge cases" without any specifics, you can be absolutely certain that they're full of shit.
Find me *any* government safety tests that review the software, and I'll happily concede the point.
Obviously not. I can point you to ISO 26262 but it doesn't matter what the standard is, you'll pretend that it doesn't meet your imaginary criteria just like you moved the goal posts when you found out that the standards you claimed didn't exist actually do.
Let's try the reverse: What standa
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By looking at it, driving it, and owning it. Duh.
Sanctions (Score:2)
Well, if they get government help, then they only get sanctioned by other governments and accused of "overcapacity".
Or is that only if they're helped by the Chinese government due to sinophobia in the USA (&lackies') government?
Note that many Volvos are made in China.
Hasn't Ford stopped EV development? (Score:3)
They were losing tens of thousands of dollars on each car sold.
Speculation: I still think that the right move is to start with the same design as a 1970 mustang or F150 Ford truck and determine the minimum number of extra parts needed to get it street legal in all 50 USA states.
Car manufacturers are doing the Intel of cars, incrementalism - adding marginal or unuseful features for decades - growing the price by a percent or two a year as a never ending profit revenue stream.
Real wages have declined since th
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Yes, sure the new truck has more features, but increasing faster than inflation for decades (like university costs) is not a viable business plan.
What you are labeling as not viable, has been working for half a century.
It would naturally take a crash or Act of God to convince an auto maker otherwise. Any business owner for that matter.
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Yes, sure the new truck has more features, but increasing faster than inflation for decades (like university costs) is not a viable business plan.
What you are labeling as not viable, has been working for half a century.
It would naturally take a crash or Act of God to convince an auto maker otherwise. Any business owner for that matter.
The current situation -- prices increasing faster than inflation while real wages fall, has been propped up by increased consumer debt. People borrow way more now than what they used to in order to buy a car or a house. The whole system is built on the increased immiseration of the working class. However, people can only get so low. And the Fed can only give out so much free money in the form of 0% interest rates. Something has to give.
So yeah, not viable. Viable 5 years ago? Yes. Viable today? Maybe
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Interesting exercise. Personally I'm not sure there would be anything that would carry over. Making a car safer in crashes goes right down to the design of the frame, the size of the windows, creating space for crossbars in doors and numerous airbags, the materials and design of the dashboa
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On another forum I frequent, someone captured something that seems true to me. The first person to put out a Ford Maverick sized pickup with electric that is fairly cheap with decent range wins all the money.
I think a lot of people would jump on this thing.
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More gov't support due to lack of Consumer support (Score:5, Interesting)
The short version: There is not one market. There are five markets, each market with differing financial means, differing risk tolerances, and differing needs/wants. Essentially a company needs five different product/market fits to sell to all five groups, the entire market.
The long versions:
"The technology adoption lifecycle is a sociological model that describes the adoption or acceptance of a new product or innovation, according to the demographic and psychological characteristics of defined adopter groups. The process of adoption over time is typically illustrated as a classical normal distribution or "bell curve". The model calls the first group of people to use a new product "innovators", followed by "early adopters". Next come the "early majority" and "late majority", and the last group to eventually adopt a product are called "laggards" or "phobics"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"This gap between niche appeal and mass (self-sustained) adoption was originally labeled "the marketing chasm""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"The author argues there is a chasm between the early adopters of the product (the technology enthusiasts and visionaries) and the early majority (the pragmatists). Moore believes visionaries and pragmatists have very different expectations, and he attempts to explore those differences and suggest techniques to successfully cross the "chasm""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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The US government has indeed taken substantive action in regards to EV adaptation. A 100% tax on EVs and solar cells, for example.
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The tariffs don't apply to responsible manufacturers and fair trading partners like Volvo.
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OK, but couldn't we apply the tariff to the useless junk we buy from China? EVs and solar cells just seem like the wrong choice for what to put a stop to.
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OK, but couldn't we apply the tariff to the useless junk we buy from China? EVs and solar cells just seem like the wrong choice for what to put a stop to.
Didn't Trump establish various retaliatory tariffs with China? Didn't Biden continue these tariffs?
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Reality doesn't care about your disbelief. 100% tax on EVs here: https://insideevs.com/news/719... [insideevs.com]
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As explained earlier technology adoption occurs at the pace of wildly different populations of consumers, populations with dif
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the only real reasion goverment push ev is the automakers lobby for it.
No, its the progressive and environmentalist lobbies.
ice margins are at a all time low when it omes to cars mostly due to there own greed. ev cars are there next money printer but no matter how many times they try they just dont sell. then you see the backtracking.
Well EVs will allow automakers to reduce the number of union workers, but all this only comes into play after the majority of the market embraces EVs. The market is in control here, not the automakers, not the government.
Continuing to make ICE (Score:3)
I could understand it if they had PHEV's with full electric drivetrain, and just a small hydrocarbon* powered generator as a range extender.
It could use petrol, diesel, propane or biofuels.
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Range extenders are fine, but ultimately not as efficient as a mechanical connection to the wheels. BMW i3, which is pretty light for an EV / PHEV and has about as small of a REX as you can get (~40hp) reportedly gets about 35mpg when running on gas whereas the Prius Prime is 50+ mpg.
If we started with only electric cars, then adding a rex and calling it a day would make sense. But since we already have ICE cars and hybrids figured out just adding bigger batteries and motors (like the Rav4 Prime ) will
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But since we already have ICE cars and hybrids figured out just adding bigger batteries and motors (like the Rav4 Prime ) will still probably be the best overall solution.
Not by a long shot. If you do 90% of your driving under battery power alone, and you charge you battery from a wall socket, you'll get far, far better than 35MPG overall with a plug-in hybrid.
Regular hybrids can't be plugged in to the wall, and have to use the ICE to charge the battery. They can be more fuel efficient than a pure ICE, but that depends how they are driven.
the Prius Prime is 50+ mpg.
That assumes stop-and-go traffic on city streets. Once you get on the expressway, your hybrid powerplant doesn't get any better fuel ec
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dude, all the cars discussed in the post you're responding to are PHEVs so they do plug in to a wall.
i3 rex, Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime.
Also the Prius Prime gets 50+mpg on the highway. (EPA rating) and I'd you read around real world people still get around 50.
It boasts EPA estimates of 53 mpg city, 55 mpg highway, and 54 mpg combined. That tops all plug-in hybrids, although the regular Prius does about as well, with EPA combined estimates of 52 or 56 mpg, depending on trim level
https://www.caranddriver.com/r... [caranddriver.com]
What I would rather see (Score:2)
Maybe have something that warns you one to empty the gas tank. You can't really leave gas in a tank indefinitely which is probably why phevs have such short range. It forces you to use some gas here and there
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The 'short electric only range' is because there must be a balance between efficiency and pulling around the weight of a bigger battery. The engineers know that once you are past the city limits gas range is still king. Plus:
Most Americans don't even commute 40 miles per day, look it up. Don't blame your situation on anyone but yourself.
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If we designed engines to work on pure alcohol, fuel going bad over time wouldn't be a problem.
That being said, gasoline will generally last a year in a tank. I've never drained the tanks of my lawn mower or snow blower at the end of the season, and for years I've never had any issues with clogged carburetors. The only thing I do is add a water absorbent every now and then.
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Is a battery designed to get me about 70 to 80 mi so I can do a long commute of the sort most Americans are stuck with these days without worrying about charging and then a gas tank they can do 200 to 300 miles for when I need to do a road trip.
Just get a full EV. The having to stop for a half hour every 200 miles or so when going on a longer trip really isn't the end of the world.
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End of the world?
No
An inconvenience I don't have to deal with now with my current ICE vehicles and driving habits of a lifetime....YES.
I'm not interested in an EV until it has full parity with the convenience (at least) I've grown up with my whole life.
Oh...and no, I don't have a way to charge at home currently.
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Do you know what's really inconvenient? Needing to go to the gas station all the time.
I don't have a way to charge at home currently.
You don't have electricity where you live?
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I've never found it to be a burden in all my years of driving.
In general, when I'm out and about, I'll notice I need gas and just pull in to a station which is usually never more than a couple blocks away on the route I'm driving.
I'm there, and 4-5 min later I'm back on the road.
Actually, more these days, I don't need gas till I make a Costco run...so, I just gas up there on my way out after shopping....top off the tan
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I've never found it to be a burden in all my years of driving.
LOL! Sure, Jan. You've never once had to fill-up at an inconvenient time. Whatever you say.
Again, hardly any time out of my day at all.
'Hardly any time' is still a lot more than 'no time at all'. Your argument about convenience is silly nonsense. Regular trips to the gas station are a massive pain-in-the-ass compared to just plugging in at home.
Lots of folks either don't [...] and don't have permission to install chargers
Oh? I thought this was about you and your situation? So... you do have electricity at home? I'm glad to hear it.
Yes, some people can't charge at home, but that is quickly becoming the exception as EV
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I'm not interested in an EV until it has full parity with the convenience (at least) I've grown up with my whole life.
I was responding to rsilvergun's post about desiring 70 to 80 miles of all-electric range for a commute, which any modern EV will do just fine. I'm not disputing the fact that there are certainly still legitimate use cases where only an ICE vehicle fits the bill. However, as a daily driver to/from work, an EV can represent a substantial savings, as fuel costs from a longer-than-average commute quickly do add up.
Heck, a friend of mine was making his commute in an old Crown Vic that he was borrowing and he
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Hybrids are the worst of both worlds. You need a substantial battery to get that range, and a whole ICE, fuel tank, exhaust system etc. You get all the extra maintenance of a fossil car.
You might as well just get a bigger battery and occasionally charge it up. A few charging stops a year is not going to outweigh the hassle of owning an ICE, especially if you use that time for a comfort break.
The real issue is the poor state of public charging in the US. Just last week a guy in the UK drove down to Italy, th
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PHEVs are actually the worst of both worlds. An EV with a sucky range that discourages people from bothering to plug it in at all and the additional mechanical complexity from having a combustion engine AND a motor / battery. This complexity also likely translates into worse reliability, larger repair/servicing fees and increased risk of fire from close proximity of hot & flammable things next to electrical things.
Honestly you'd be better off buying an EV.
All the EV promises were made when oil was surging (Score:3)
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Gas is still $3.40-ish per gallon around my neck of the woods, and the only reason we think that's not so bad is because the cost of food and everything else is though the roof at the moment. Personally, I've got no regrets going EV and not having to deal with that shit anymore. Leaves me with more money for the overpriced food.
I'm sure someone is going to chime in with "But didn't you have to buy the EV?". Funny thing about that, due to a quirk of used vehicle resale values and the used EV tax credit, I
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"those promises aren't worth the advertisements and government forms they are printed on"
Threat of a demand shock brought the suppliers back to market reality, and the car manufacturers didn't even have to do the actual R&D. Sounds like a good value to me.
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VW's EVs are actually decent and reasonably priced. They are still much cheaper to run than fossil cars. Not just the petrol, the servicing and maintenance too.
The issue is that inflation has put pressure on consumers and forced car prices up. Additionally they are selling a lot fewer cars in China because domestic brands are displacing them, and the same is starting to happen in Europe.
To the tune of ... (Score:2)
Economies of Scale (Score:2)
When they get down to 10% combustion cars, I'd expect those cars to be expensive, and at the same time not particularly profitable for Volvo. Because at that point economies of scale will be working against them.
Economies of scale are making it painful for all the "legacy" car makers to transition to electric—and some of them are only making it worse by introducing too many EV models and slicing their production numbers up between them. It's a legitimate dilemma, but my sympathy is limited. I think t
Again with the no jokes (Score:2)
And again it seemed like a rich target...
pledge (Score:2)
Pledges are worth no more than the electrons they are printed on.
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Norway has an 'a' in it.
Volvo's head office is in Sweden.
But EV's are big sellers in Norway.
I don't know if there are a lot of moose in Sweden, (in spite of the mention of them in the opening credits of 'The Holy Grail')
Re:Too cold in Norwey for EVs (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know if there are a lot of moose in Sweden
There are, but Europeans call them "elk".
Sweden has more moose than any other country but Russia, Canada, and America, and the highest moose density of any country.
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The Norwegian government has had a policy of investing in electric cars since the 1990s, including free parking and lower taxes.
And the current goal is that all new cars should be zero-emission cars (electric or hydrogen) by 2025.
The whole world is switching to electric with China and Europe as dominant markets while the US has fallen behind.
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A moose once bit my sister....
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EVs really suck when it gets too cold. Before you know it you'll be stuck in the middle of nowhere in the snow with only some moose to keep you company.
94% of new vehicle registrations in Norway last month were EV's. It seems people who, you know, actually live in Norway, disagree with you about whether "it's too cold in Norway for EV's".
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EVs really suck when it gets too cold.
Fear not and have patience. Give it a few years. We're working to warm the planet to allow you to drive cool, futuristic cars like the rest of us.
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Actually EVs can drive just fine in the cold, assuming the driver knows how to run the heat pump and other precautions. Efficiency is certainly lower than in the summer months so someone has to be aware of that. But it's not close to the ludicrous BS going around about how they don't work. Norway, is a cold country and yet 100% of all new car sales are EV. Clearly not the issue it's made out to be.
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so someone has to be aware of that
You talk about having to charge every 100 km in a snow storm on unplowed roads like it's a minor inconvienence.
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You don't have to charge every 100km and I expect very few people drive 100km in snow storms on unplowed roads whether they're in ICE or electric vehicle. It's an absurd scenario.