GM Electric Vehicles Can Now Use Tesla Superchargers (msn.com) 81
The Washington Post reports that electric vehicles made by General Motors now can use Tesla's Superchargers. (GM's charger adapters "will first be made available to customers in the United States, followed by availability for Canadian customers later this year.") The Post writes that the move "expands the number of vehicles compatible with the North American Charging Standard developed by Tesla" — and also marks "another step forward for efforts to settle on a universal public charger network for battery-powered cars and trucks in the U.S.
"It could also allay some GM customers' concerns about a lack of charging options." The new changes take effect immediately, along with sales of the GM-approved power adapters... The deal makes roughly 17,800 Tesla Superchargers available to drivers of GM-manufactured vehicles such as the Chevy Bolt, Cadillac Lyriq and Silverado EV, with the help of an adapter that costs $225... GM estimates that the partnership with Tesla contributes to an overall network of 231,800 fast chargers across the United States available to drivers of its vehicles. GM is also part of IONNA, a joint venture of eight automakers that plans to build at least 30,000 high-powered chargers nationwide.
GM's statement calls it "a move that will help accelerate fast and convenient charging options for current and future EV drivers." And the move comes 15 months after GM announced it was adopting the standard — a move followed within weeks by similar announcements from Rivian, Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Hyundai and Kia. "Ford and Rivian have started distributing adapters for their EVs," the Washington Post points out, "while others, such as BMW, Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz have promised to start making their vehicles compatible this year or next."
"Knowing we will now have access to Tesla Supercharger locations means that range anxiety has now virtually evaporated..." argues a Chevy owner at CleanTechnica: This is mostly good news for drivers of electric cars from GM. Tesla and The General have been bitter enemies in the past, with GM opposing Tesla's direct sales model in many states. The once fierce battle has cooled in recent years, but GM essentially won by keeping Tesla from selling direct to the public in several US states, including its new home of Texas. Nevertheless, the two companies are now cooperating, which is a bonus for drivers...
Despite some niggling concerns, this is a big deal for EV drivers in North America. Tesla Superchargers are the gold standard in the industry today. There are fast, reliable, and always located in clean, well-lit places where restrooms and fresh foods are available. This could very well change the conversation about electric cars to the point where by the time GM, Ford, and Stellantis get their plug-in hybrids into showrooms, the demand for them will have shrunk considerably.
One GM executive says in this week's statement that "GM's ongoing efforts to help accelerate the expansion of public charging infrastructure is an integral part of our commitment to an all-electric future."
"It could also allay some GM customers' concerns about a lack of charging options." The new changes take effect immediately, along with sales of the GM-approved power adapters... The deal makes roughly 17,800 Tesla Superchargers available to drivers of GM-manufactured vehicles such as the Chevy Bolt, Cadillac Lyriq and Silverado EV, with the help of an adapter that costs $225... GM estimates that the partnership with Tesla contributes to an overall network of 231,800 fast chargers across the United States available to drivers of its vehicles. GM is also part of IONNA, a joint venture of eight automakers that plans to build at least 30,000 high-powered chargers nationwide.
GM's statement calls it "a move that will help accelerate fast and convenient charging options for current and future EV drivers." And the move comes 15 months after GM announced it was adopting the standard — a move followed within weeks by similar announcements from Rivian, Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Hyundai and Kia. "Ford and Rivian have started distributing adapters for their EVs," the Washington Post points out, "while others, such as BMW, Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz have promised to start making their vehicles compatible this year or next."
"Knowing we will now have access to Tesla Supercharger locations means that range anxiety has now virtually evaporated..." argues a Chevy owner at CleanTechnica: This is mostly good news for drivers of electric cars from GM. Tesla and The General have been bitter enemies in the past, with GM opposing Tesla's direct sales model in many states. The once fierce battle has cooled in recent years, but GM essentially won by keeping Tesla from selling direct to the public in several US states, including its new home of Texas. Nevertheless, the two companies are now cooperating, which is a bonus for drivers...
Despite some niggling concerns, this is a big deal for EV drivers in North America. Tesla Superchargers are the gold standard in the industry today. There are fast, reliable, and always located in clean, well-lit places where restrooms and fresh foods are available. This could very well change the conversation about electric cars to the point where by the time GM, Ford, and Stellantis get their plug-in hybrids into showrooms, the demand for them will have shrunk considerably.
One GM executive says in this week's statement that "GM's ongoing efforts to help accelerate the expansion of public charging infrastructure is an integral part of our commitment to an all-electric future."
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It's a real shame because Europe standardizing on CCS2 relatively early was a big boost for EV adoption. Tesla was forced to fit CCS2 to its vehicles, so started retrofitting chargers as well, and opened them up to other vehicles shortly after.
It also meant that other charging networks could get Tesla customers without fitting another connector.
For once the industry picked a decent standard too. NACS isn't bad, it has a few issues that CCS2 doesn't, but also some small advantages. It's a toss up really, it'
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nacs is good enough.
the form factor is great. been living with it the past 5 or so years. my only charge is via SC network (apartment renter so no home charging for me; and none at work, either).
elon is an asshole and does not care about this stuff anymore. what he cares about - is not what his original buyers care about. so I worry about the growth of the charger network. it was the ONE thing elon did that was done well.
Re:like usual (Score:5, Interesting)
The main downside with NACS is the lack of 3 phase AC support. We can get 22kW from CCS2 in Europe. AC chargers are much, much less expensive than DC, and take up almost no space at all. 22kW is typically around 140km/h charging speed, quite decent and makes relying on public chargers when you can't charge at home easier.
With single phase you are limited to 7kW, even with 240V.
The other kinda jank thing about NACS is using short range radio to control the locking mechanism, and make the car open the charge port door. It's daft idea anyway, especially for cars with V2L where you don't want anyone else to be able to open that port. It also means that the unlocking mechanism can be jammed, in the radio sense. Sometimes you find that people can't unlock their car with the keyfob button because something nearby on the same unlicenced frequency is unintentionally jamming it.
On the other hand, it is a bit smaller and lighter than the full CCS2 DC connector. I think the other things outweigh that though, especially the 3 phase on the AC plug.
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Not sure why you're comparing NACS to CCS2, Tesla lost that battle. US home users essentially never have access to three phase and their single phase is not limited to 7KW.
It is clear that lack of three phase is an issue in Europe but it isn't in the US. The main "downside" in the US is lack of backward compatibility with 1772. Motorcycles use 1772 and L2 chargers provide 1772. By transitioning to NACS/3400 those users and charging points get left behind. There's no benefit either, NACS is slightly smal
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So how do you do over 7kW from single phase in the US? 480V? Is it common in the US?
Re:like usual (Score:4, Informative)
> So how do you do over 7kW from single phase in the US?
7KW = 30A at 240V single phase (Hot-Hot). Since there is no real limit to current on a 240V circuit other than the capacity of your panel/service you can get 20KW Level 2 EVSEs (not that many vehicles support that)
Wall outlets are half phase (Hot-Neutral) at 120V and unless certain special criteria are met, wall outlet circuits are limited to 16A continuous and are often less.
=Smidge=
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> So how do you do over 7kW from single phase in the US?
7KW = 30A at 240V single phase (Hot-Hot).
The US does use split phase power, but according to electrical engineering and physics definitions, evenly splitting a phase leaves two phases 180 degrees out of phase and as such it’s not uncommon to refer to them that way.
there is no real limit to current on a 240V circuit other than the capacity of your panel/service you can get 20KW Level 2 EVSEs (not that many vehicles support that)
Wall outlets are half phase (Hot-Neutral) at 120V and unless certain special criteria are met, wall outlet circuits are limited to 16A continuous and are often less. =Smidge=
All circuits including outlets are rated for 80% continuous duty cycle in the residential US electrical code. So the less common 20A 120V outlet is rated for 16A continuous and the 15A outlet 12A. It’s why you need a 60A breaker for a 48A continuous draw lvl2 EV charger.
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I've seen a lot of 20A, 120 volt circuits, and even 30 amp, 120 volt when you are in the RV world. I mention this, as it is common enough to pop up. Especially when someone wires up a 30 amp, 120 volt circuit with 240, thinking it is a three prong "dryer outlet".
It would be nice if the US had 240 volts everywhere, perhaps even a rail in the house at 48 VDC, just so one wouldn't need all these power supplies, but just plug into 48 VDC and buck down to whatever is wanted. However, the chance of this is pre
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A standard north american wall 110v outlet is limited to 12amps continuous because they're on 15 amp breakers with 14/3 wiring.
You can happily have 110v with 30 amps using a different breaker and correct wiring.
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> 30A.
US L2 chargers can be sourced with up to 80A 240V (100A breaker). Typically, the most powerful ones are either 40A or 48A 240V. The US has standard wall plugs that are 50A 240V. >7KW is commonplace.
European standards do not like imbalanced loads so they require large loads to be three phase. US standards handle those imbalances upstream and don't even bring three phase to the home.
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Ah, that makes sense. Some chonker cables though. Do many US cars support 22kW or more on AC?
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In the US, and also in Europe, the VAST majority of EVs today only support 12KW or less regardless of what the outlet is theoretically rated for. This is why 3-phase isn't actually that big a deal.
=Smidge=
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Wattage is volts times amps.
Europe goes for more volts; North America goes for more amps.
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The main "downside" in the US is lack of backward compatibility with 1772. Motorcycles use 1772 and L2 chargers provide 1772.
Are NACS->J1772 adapters difficult for some reason? J1772->NACS adapter are common, even cheap [amazon.com].
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The main "downside" in the US is lack of backward compatibility with 1772. Motorcycles use 1772 and L2 chargers provide 1772.
Are NACS->J1772 adapters difficult for some reason? J1772->NACS adapter are common, even cheap [amazon.com].
Ah, nope, looks like there's no problem [amazon.com] adapting from NACS to J1772, either. That's not Supercharger-compatible, of course, but no vehicle that charges via J1772 can take power that fast anyway.
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The main downside with NACS is the lack of 3 phase AC support.
This is a complete non-issue. When AC charging, you're using the vehicle's onboard charger (the EVSE is basically just a mains contactor and some circuitry to make sure everything is electrically kosher before the contactor engages) and that's typically limited to 11.5kW. Here in the USA, that's handled just fine by a 240V 60A circuit.
That may seem like a lot of power, but it's a commonly used circuit size for resistive central heating in southern states.
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We can get 22kW from CCS2 in Europe.
43kW. The standard supports 63A, 3 phase. I don't think there are any cars that do that, but some lorries on the other hand do.
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The original Zoe could, but such chargers are few and far between.
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That's an impressive inverter on a car. I can see why they cut the expense given how rare such supplies are.
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It was quite a clever design that used the traction motor's coil as a big inductor, IIRC.
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It was quite a clever design that used the traction motor's coil as a big inductor, IIRC.
That's pretty slick. Giant, well cooled, high power inductor for free. And one that's
already largely routed to the battery. And that's probably the expensive bit. Transistors capable of 600V at 100A are cheap, as in a few quid in small quantities.
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> With single phase you are limited to 7kW, even with 240V.
This is simply not true. We charge at 40A, 240V at home, which is 9.6kW. We could have paid for a charger upgrade on our 2015 Model S and then we could have charged at home at 80A, or 19.2kW.
Yes, most public Level 2 chargers in the US are going to be more like 6.2kW (30A, 208V), but there's no real reason they are just 30A other than using cheaper equipment. I'm not sure what the maximum amperage is that various EVs can accept.
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In the US, you can do 19.2kw on 2-Phase 240v AC outlets just fine. Ford and several others offer 80amp chargers these days, my friend bought a F150 Lightning and it came free with the truck. Wire it up to a 100amp breaker, and it can accept 80amp @ 240v, 19.2kw. More vehicles will be doing this, GM's Ultium based vehicles can support this. It's paving the way to Vehicle To Grid and Vehicle to Home (V2G V2H) bi-directional chargers to power houses in power outlets, or to use the car battery to sell power bac
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With single phase you are limited to 7kW, even with 240V.
Only if you're limited to 30A. My home charger is 60A, 14.4kW.
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Three-phase AC power is much less common in North America than other parts of the world for residential settings, so the lack of support isn't strongly missed for light duty vehicles. For heavier vehicles used in commercial or industrial settings, there is always SAE J3068 that uses the Type 2 (Mennekes) connector.
Keep in mind that the IEC 62196-2 standard has a lower maximum current rating for 1ph AC charging than than the SAE J1772 standard for Type 1 (Yazaki) connectors: 32 A versus 80 A. The SAE J3400
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> what he cares about - is not what his original buyers care about. so I worry about the growth of the charger network
Why do you think he wants to sell fewer Teslas? That's most of his wealth.
What do his customers care about that he no longer cares about?
Being able to quickly and conveniently charge?
Range anxiety is the main reason most people don't want EV. The surveillance/remote control is a distant second.
Please help us understand with data.
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Why do you think he wants to sell fewer Teslas?
Well, for one thing he's been on that social network he now owns kissing up to the people who would sooner go back to riding horses than be seen in an EV, while being as off-putting as possible towards the more progressive demographic who typically thinks EVs are just fine. The other part of his bold strategy also includes endorsing politicians who want to take away the subsidies and policies which promote EV ownership.
An odd flex, for sure.
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NACS lacks backwards compatibility with 1772, the primary reason CCS (1) is the way it is. It's not a toss up, NACS is worse in the features that matter.
Tesla participated in the development of CCS and then actively chose not to support it. In Europe they were forced to comply to the benefit of consumers. In the US they were not and now the consumer suffers. NACS is a glaring example of the consequences that occur when the government does not play its role and instead allow sociopaths to damage the mark
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The Tesla connector seems like an odd design, given they were very concerned about charging speed in the early days, and made a big deal of it being the fastest on the market... Yet it doesn't support 3 phase AC, which would have been very useful for people wanting to charge at home, and for cheap AC chargers at businesses and workplaces.
They could have had 3x the speed from AC charging, the only downside being a slightly bulkier connector.
Re:like usual (Score:5, Informative)
US homes don't have three phase. Tesla is US-centric. Also, Tesla's concern with charging speed was not L2, it was L3. AC charging is not the fastest regardless.
It should also be understood that AC charging rarely occurs at 20 KW, at least in the US, even though that exists in the standard. L2 charging is generally overnight or at least over several hours. 20 KW isn't really beneficial in L2 unless your battery/consumption is enormous.
The average US driver travels about 40 miles a day in mostly city miles. Even with poor efficiency, a BEV would need only charge 15-20 kWh daily to support that. There is simply no justification for three phase AC charging when even 7KW charging satisfies average demand in 2-3 hours. Hell, many US users can meet charging needs with L1 charging.
I would agree with you that 3-phase is a nice feature that CCS2 provides and that should be a requirement in Europe, but US users will never have that. Our system is designed differently and our three phase is never brought to the home. In commercial it is, but then the voltages and equipment are different. You have to be wealthy and extreme to bring commercial service into your home, most likely because you have a shop that requires three phase power. The cost of 3P electric to the home is wildly out of line with typical residential service, and BEV can get 20KW charging with 100A single phase service without it.
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In addition to not really needing such high charging speeds at home, the other reason the most commonly used EV charging circuit in the USA is a NEMA 14-50R outlet (9.6kW) is to avoid overloading the main breaker panel. Newer homes in the USA typically have a 150A or 200A electrical service, and in a house with central air conditioning and all electric appliances, it's not difficult to bump right up against the limits of your electrical service while you're charging an EV.
Now certainly, I've seen some larg
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It should also be understood that AC charging rarely occurs at 20 KW, at least in the US, even though that exists in the standard. L2 charging is generally overnight or at least over several hours.
Definitely a US thing to not charge at 20kW. Many (most?) L2 chargers in Europe are 22kW. It certainly is the most common type in my city. And the reason being is that you want to charge over only several hours. The USA is more unique in its suburban nature. Most people I know do not have off street parking, let alone garages, so the ability to fully charge their car in 4-5 hours is great. Plus top-up destination charging is better at that speed, and it's very rare for small shops / malls / parking garages
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> NACS lacks backwards compatibility with 1772
They are electrically compatible and use the same communication scheme; You only need an adapter. For AC charging this has always been the case, and for DCFC it's only Teslas older than 2018 I believe that are not compatible and need an ungraded onboard charger unit.
=Smidge=
Part of north america not europe (Score:2)
like usual, canada gets screwed
Perhaps they could remember that they are part of north america not europe?
Re: always located where fresh good and restrooms (Score:2)
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In other words, they're fucking over the whites now in addition to the blacks.
A lot of the boomer rage can be summarized as, "They're treating me like a negro!"
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Lululemon
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can't be true, pull up map of the Tesla charging stations in the Chicago area and you'll see I really was telling the truth.
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Is it possible they are only using criteria for their charging stations such as....where sales and high ownership of their cars exist in town?
Maybe they are also looking at crime stats and putting them mostly where EV owners would actually feel safe getting out of their cars and charging for a period of time?
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if that's what you want to think as reason black and latino neighborhoods don't get the chargers, go ahead.
You'll see some residents driving some very expensive cars in those neighborhoods, by the way.
This is a good thing, but... (Score:3)
...it may make life more difficult for Tesla owners in the short term
We need LOTS more chargers, and they need to be reliable and properly maintained
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The chargers need to be where people sleep.
The idea that your everyday charger is going to be out "on the road" somewhere, and you're going to be competing for a spot with random people, is a holdover from the days of gasoline fuel. It's not necessary and it's the cause of range anxiety, which is also making EVs worse than they need to be (more weight, higher cost.)
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Yes chargers where people sleep are important, but so are DC Fast Chargers. If you drive over ~250 miles in a day more than once every three months then superchargers are critical to adoption. If the drive is entirely on interstates today you can likely pull it off, but if you have more than 100 miles on state or local roads you are generally out of luck.
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The problem is that there another, unrelated idea and that is to prevent the average person from owning their own place to sleep. When you rent it, you can't decide whether there's a charger there or not.
Of course, cars are becoming unaffordable just like housing is, so perhaps the problem is short term regardless.
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What we really need for mass EV adoption are a bunch of reasonably fast DC chargers with a standardized plug at every major hotel, shopping center, state/national park, and highway rest stop with food options. We're not there yet, but I'm hopeful that we will be within the next 5 years.
Once you can charge up your EV in less than an hour with roughly the same convenience of finding a gas station now, I think that we'll have a bunch more willing EV converts. Until then, it's going to be a tough sell if you fi
Re:This is a good thing, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you don't want fast chargers everywhere. You're thinking gas vehicle.
You want slow chargers where people are going to spend hours parked.
You see, a fast charger is not a parking spot. If you are done charging, you must move your vehicle away from the charger and park it normally. This is a huge inconvenience and it's not something you want to do - regardless of if the charger goes from zero to full in 20 minutes or an hour. If you know you're going to spend a couple hours in a place, a slower charger would be what you need, and they're easier to install. These can be regular parking spaces so you can park, plug in, and do whatever it is you need to do.
Even at workplaces, a slow charger is fine. No one wants to run out to their car to use the fast charger, then run out again half an hour later when it's charged to move it to another parking space. No one lives like that. They'd rather park, plug and leave it until it's time to leave.
The basic goal is to realize most vehicles are parked 20+ hours a day, and while they are parked, they can be charging. And most of the time, they can be slow charging. Even a level 1 charger plugged in 20 hours can replenish 40-60 miles. A faster level 2 can do easily up to 200 miles in 20 hours.
The superchargers and fast DC chargers should be reserved for those needing to do long road trips - the charger stop being a reasonably nice place to spend an hour resting and stretching legs and enjoying something to eat.
That doesn't preclude having a few fast charger stations at a mall or something for those who may not be able to charge at home, they can charge while they go shopping and have a need to be fully topped up after running errands.
But the vast majority of people go from home to a shopping mall and back, and you only need level 1 or 2 chargers since you're going to just charge what you used to get there.
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You're probably right about not needing fast chargers at hotels, where you people will actually get a chance for a car to sit for a few hours to slow charge.
More fast chargers at places like shopping centers, museums, state parks, and (especially) highway rest stops would be helpful for road trips, though. If I'm on a road trip, I don't want to wait longer to charge then it takes to use the rest room and get a bite to eat.
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You are completely missing the point. The only place you need fast chargers are high-way rest stops - places where the duration of charge is the defining reason for stopping.
You also don't need to fill your car to 100%. Who runs in and out of a museum within 1 hour? Who goes into and out of a shopping mall in that time, or a state park? A slow charger is more than sufficient in this scenario. If I drive 20km to a museum even on a slow charger my car will be fully charged again within 20min. In many cases su
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Somehow, I don't see all the big shopping malls here in the US with the vast parking lots...tearing them all up to install individual chargers at every space.....I especially don't see it till there is more demand for EVs in the US.
Chicken and egg thing.
The same goes for large apartment complexes...I don't see them tearing everything up to put in charging stations that won't be used for
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Somehow, I don't see all the big shopping malls here in the US with the vast parking lots...tearing them all up to install individual chargers at every space.....I especially don't see it till there is more demand for EVs in the US.
Giant malls are a suburban thing, and people living in the suburbs can charge at home. No need for mall charging. Oh, it might be nice for malls to offer a dozen chargers for people whose cars are a bit low... and maybe a few dozen more for employees (many of whom have lower incomes and live in apartments, so being able to charge at work would be a huge plus). But there's definitely no need to install thousands of chargers in a mall's parking lot.
The same goes for large apartment complexes...I don't see them tearing everything up to put in charging stations that won't be used for quite awhile to come...
No, but I do see all the new apartment complexes being bui
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Most apartment complexes just have vast parking lots, with no assigned parking.
You don't know how many cars each apartment will have and they allow extra spots, quite often, for visitors.....
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Why not add a meter per spot tied to that apartment? You only get charged your own usage that way. Power companies install the meters anyway so they can charge appropriately, it shouldn't increase costs by much at all.
Power companies charge a lot of money to install those meters. Look into the fees involved in connecting a new house to the grid. Also, many apartment complexes don't have assigned parking.
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Why not add a meter per spot tied to that apartment? You only get charged your own usage that way. Power companies install the meters anyway so they can charge appropriately, it shouldn't increase costs by much at all.
Power companies charge a lot of money to install those meters. Look into the fees involved in connecting a new house to the grid. Also, many apartment complexes don't have assigned parking.
Assigned parking can easily be fixed and properties would just end up charging the renters in small increments like they always do for parking (hidden fee in your apartments rent).
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Most apartment complexes just have vast parking lots, with no assigned parking.
You don't know how many cars each apartment will have and they allow extra spots, quite often, for visitors.....
Most apartments I've been in either have assigned spots for yourself with shared visitor parking or allow up to two vehicles with no assigned parking. The assigned spaces actually solve issues with having to look for a space far away from your dwelling and would be a welcome change for many.
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That's a pretty broad assumption there...no, there are a LOT of people, even in suburbs that do not have single family dwellings with off street parking they can modify to add a charger.
Many people rent houses...can't install charger. Many have houses without off street parking.
Even more live in large apartment complexes with no assigned parking in vast parking lots where no owner is planning any time soon to tear up s
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Many people rent houses...can't install charger
They don't need to install a charger, they just need a regular old outlet close enough to where they park their car. Sure, an L2 charger is nicer, but I drove an EV for years with nothing more than an L1 charger plugged into a standard 120V 15A outlet.
Many have houses without off street parking.
In the suburbs? Nah. The only place you find houses without at least driveways, if not carports, is places where the houses were built before the 1950s, and that's a very small percentage. Not that they don't exist, but they're really not common.
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But those chargers do not need to be fast chargers. They can be standard Level 1 or Level 2 chargers because the car is presumably going to be parked there for hours on end. So there's no need to go from empty to full in 20 minutes if the car is going to sit around for 12 hours.
In fact, you can probably say the same where people work - they drive to the office, then you only need a slower AC charger at the office where your car is going to sit parked for hours agai
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That's fine and good for everyone that has off street parking....single family home, that they own and can modify for installing a charger.
AT least 1/3 of those in the US do not own their home, do not have off street parking, etc....
So, if you want to market to a very large number of people in the US, you need to have plentiful, fast charging stations all over the place.
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That's fine and good for everyone that has off street parking....single family home, that they own and can modify for installing a charger.
AT least 1/3 of those in the US do not own their home, do not have off street parking, etc....
So, if you want to market to a very large number of people in the US, you need to have plentiful, fast charging stations all over the place.
I'd suggest rethinking the way you're thinking. This isn't a gas car mentality, nor does it need to be. Start thinking about "Where's my next stop?" rather than just filling up when empty.
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Actually, it's both.
We need DC fast chargers out in the middle of nowhere so you can get from Point A to Point B.
We then need L2 chargers at places you sleep or places you'll be spending a few hours at, so you have easy charge while you're there.
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...it may make life more difficult for Tesla owners in the short term
Don't hate the Bolt driver taking up two spots, hate Tesla for installing cords that are so short that the Bolt driver has to park in the wrong spot [forbes.com] to use the Supercharger.
And yes, I've verified it for myself. With a Bolt you have to park on the leftmost edge of the white line in the space to the right of the charger you're using, in order for the cord to reach. The charger you're parked directly in front of ends up being blocked, unless the charger on the rightmost end is available and you're able to pa
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In Europe where this has been a thing for a few years now, it's been fine. Tesla started fitting longer cables to accommodate other cars too.
Of course Tesla owners can use other charging networks too.
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We need LOTS more chargers, and they need to be reliable and properly maintained
Well I'm sure Tesla will keep up with their past excellent work in the charging side of the business. There's no way Musk would do anything to destroy that signature feature of owning a Tesla ... oops https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
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There aren't NEARLY enough non-Tesla EVs in North America (except perhaps in California) for this to cause any additional congestion at supercharging stations.
GM may have a lot of EV models now, but none of them are being produced in quantity.
Nazi electricity (Score:2)
GM (Score:2)
From your link:
"Did Alfred P. Sloan’s brainchild collude with the Nazis?
No, is the short answer from Yale historian Henry Ashby Turner Jr."
The article then goes on to say that Germany basically nationalized Opel, kicking out the Americans. Kind of like what Venezuela did to GM in 2007.
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You know what I'm philosophically opposed to more than giving Musk money? Giving oil companies money. I'll gladly take the lesser of two evils when the EA chargers are full.
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I'm sure you would be less philosophically opposed to it if you were denied the benefits that industry has directly given your quality of life. Yeah everyone is gangster against fossil fuels right until they get their power turned off and have to buy an off the grid installation for their home - funded to you in part by cheap fuel to get that gear to you from China.
Annoying (Score:2)
It's annoying that you "need permission" to access a charging network. If you have a compatible physical connector, compatible protocol, and a payment method you should be allowed to access any charging network. This should include "point of sale" payment too, not "you have to create an account and have an app" nonsense.
We need "gas station" equivalent charging on the highways, every 50 miles or so. If you had this, most charging concerns go away. I have tons of "local" charging around where I live, whe
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The other problem is the fast charging networks are more expensive than gasoline compared to many ICE vehicles.
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of the Superchargers around here are priced at roughly $0.49 per kWh, which makes it more expensive per-mile than an ICE economy car. If I had to regularly rely on DCFC, I wouldn't consider it cost effective to own an EV. As a once-in-awhile thing though, it's not too bad.
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My EV gets almost 5 mi/kW-hr as well - driving around town. On the highway it's closer to 3 mi/kW-hr, due to physics.
I don't need 350kW chargers while driving around town... I want those gasoline-price-competitive chargers on the highway, not "around town."
Any practical experience? (Score:1)
Does anyone have knowledge on how well this actually works in practice? I note that many of the non-Tesla cars have the charger ports on the front left of the car; the Tesla has it in the rear left and you are supposed to back the car into the stall, meaning the charging port aligns with the right side of the stall, which is also where the charging station (with short cables, I hear) sits. Can the Supercharger cable actually reach form the charging station to, say, a Lyric's charging port?
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Does anyone have knowledge on how well this actually works in practice?
The V3 Supercharger cords are very short, which requires some precision parking (and taking up two spaces) to get a GM vehicle into a position where it will reach. Other than the parking being a bit of a pain in the ass, the actual charging works like any other app-reliant DCFC station.
Is it worth dealing with when there's EA chargers nearby with availability? No. But if I'm somewhere Tesla is the only game in town or there's a line at the EA chargers, then yeah, I'll spend the extra time parking like I'