GM Electric Vehicles Can Now Use Tesla Superchargers (msn.com) 26
The Washington Post reports that electric vehicles made by General Motors now can use Tesla's Superchargers. (GM's charger adapters "will first be made available to customers in the United States, followed by availability for Canadian customers later this year.") The Post writes that the move "expands the number of vehicles compatible with the North American Charging Standard developed by Tesla" — and also marks "another step forward for efforts to settle on a universal public charger network for battery-powered cars and trucks in the U.S.
"It could also allay some GM customers' concerns about a lack of charging options." The new changes take effect immediately, along with sales of the GM-approved power adapters... The deal makes roughly 17,800 Tesla Superchargers available to drivers of GM-manufactured vehicles such as the Chevy Bolt, Cadillac Lyriq and Silverado EV, with the help of an adapter that costs $225... GM estimates that the partnership with Tesla contributes to an overall network of 231,800 fast chargers across the United States available to drivers of its vehicles. GM is also part of IONNA, a joint venture of eight automakers that plans to build at least 30,000 high-powered chargers nationwide.
GM's statement calls it "a move that will help accelerate fast and convenient charging options for current and future EV drivers." And the move comes 15 months after GM announced it was adopting the standard — a move followed within weeks by similar announcements from Rivian, Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Hyundai and Kia. "Ford and Rivian have started distributing adapters for their EVs," the Washington Post points out, "while others, such as BMW, Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz have promised to start making their vehicles compatible this year or next."
"Knowing we will now have access to Tesla Supercharger locations means that range anxiety has now virtually evaporated..." argues a Chevy owner at CleanTechnica: This is mostly good news for drivers of electric cars from GM. Tesla and The General have been bitter enemies in the past, with GM opposing Tesla's direct sales model in many states. The once fierce battle has cooled in recent years, but GM essentially won by keeping Tesla from selling direct to the public in several US states, including its new home of Texas. Nevertheless, the two companies are now cooperating, which is a bonus for drivers...
Despite some niggling concerns, this is a big deal for EV drivers in North America. Tesla Superchargers are the gold standard in the industry today. There are fast, reliable, and always located in clean, well-lit places where restrooms and fresh foods are available. This could very well change the conversation about electric cars to the point where by the time GM, Ford, and Stellantis get their plug-in hybrids into showrooms, the demand for them will have shrunk considerably.
One GM executive says in this week's statement that "GM's ongoing efforts to help accelerate the expansion of public charging infrastructure is an integral part of our commitment to an all-electric future."
"It could also allay some GM customers' concerns about a lack of charging options." The new changes take effect immediately, along with sales of the GM-approved power adapters... The deal makes roughly 17,800 Tesla Superchargers available to drivers of GM-manufactured vehicles such as the Chevy Bolt, Cadillac Lyriq and Silverado EV, with the help of an adapter that costs $225... GM estimates that the partnership with Tesla contributes to an overall network of 231,800 fast chargers across the United States available to drivers of its vehicles. GM is also part of IONNA, a joint venture of eight automakers that plans to build at least 30,000 high-powered chargers nationwide.
GM's statement calls it "a move that will help accelerate fast and convenient charging options for current and future EV drivers." And the move comes 15 months after GM announced it was adopting the standard — a move followed within weeks by similar announcements from Rivian, Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Hyundai and Kia. "Ford and Rivian have started distributing adapters for their EVs," the Washington Post points out, "while others, such as BMW, Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz have promised to start making their vehicles compatible this year or next."
"Knowing we will now have access to Tesla Supercharger locations means that range anxiety has now virtually evaporated..." argues a Chevy owner at CleanTechnica: This is mostly good news for drivers of electric cars from GM. Tesla and The General have been bitter enemies in the past, with GM opposing Tesla's direct sales model in many states. The once fierce battle has cooled in recent years, but GM essentially won by keeping Tesla from selling direct to the public in several US states, including its new home of Texas. Nevertheless, the two companies are now cooperating, which is a bonus for drivers...
Despite some niggling concerns, this is a big deal for EV drivers in North America. Tesla Superchargers are the gold standard in the industry today. There are fast, reliable, and always located in clean, well-lit places where restrooms and fresh foods are available. This could very well change the conversation about electric cars to the point where by the time GM, Ford, and Stellantis get their plug-in hybrids into showrooms, the demand for them will have shrunk considerably.
One GM executive says in this week's statement that "GM's ongoing efforts to help accelerate the expansion of public charging infrastructure is an integral part of our commitment to an all-electric future."
Re: (Score:2)
It's a real shame because Europe standardizing on CCS2 relatively early was a big boost for EV adoption. Tesla was forced to fit CCS2 to its vehicles, so started retrofitting chargers as well, and opened them up to other vehicles shortly after.
It also meant that other charging networks could get Tesla customers without fitting another connector.
For once the industry picked a decent standard too. NACS isn't bad, it has a few issues that CCS2 doesn't, but also some small advantages. It's a toss up really, it'
Re: (Score:2)
nacs is good enough.
the form factor is great. been living with it the past 5 or so years. my only charge is via SC network (apartment renter so no home charging for me; and none at work, either).
elon is an asshole and does not care about this stuff anymore. what he cares about - is not what his original buyers care about. so I worry about the growth of the charger network. it was the ONE thing elon did that was done well.
Re:like usual (Score:4, Interesting)
The main downside with NACS is the lack of 3 phase AC support. We can get 22kW from CCS2 in Europe. AC chargers are much, much less expensive than DC, and take up almost no space at all. 22kW is typically around 140km/h charging speed, quite decent and makes relying on public chargers when you can't charge at home easier.
With single phase you are limited to 7kW, even with 240V.
The other kinda jank thing about NACS is using short range radio to control the locking mechanism, and make the car open the charge port door. It's daft idea anyway, especially for cars with V2L where you don't want anyone else to be able to open that port. It also means that the unlocking mechanism can be jammed, in the radio sense. Sometimes you find that people can't unlock their car with the keyfob button because something nearby on the same unlicenced frequency is unintentionally jamming it.
On the other hand, it is a bit smaller and lighter than the full CCS2 DC connector. I think the other things outweigh that though, especially the 3 phase on the AC plug.
Re: (Score:3)
Not sure why you're comparing NACS to CCS2, Tesla lost that battle. US home users essentially never have access to three phase and their single phase is not limited to 7KW.
It is clear that lack of three phase is an issue in Europe but it isn't in the US. The main "downside" in the US is lack of backward compatibility with 1772. Motorcycles use 1772 and L2 chargers provide 1772. By transitioning to NACS/3400 those users and charging points get left behind. There's no benefit either, NACS is slightly smal
Re: (Score:2)
So how do you do over 7kW from single phase in the US? 480V? Is it common in the US?
Re: (Score:3)
> So how do you do over 7kW from single phase in the US?
7KW = 30A at 240V single phase (Hot-Hot). Since there is no real limit to current on a 240V circuit other than the capacity of your panel/service you can get 20KW Level 2 EVSEs (not that many vehicles support that)
Wall outlets are half phase (Hot-Neutral) at 120V and unless certain special criteria are met, wall outlet circuits are limited to 16A continuous and are often less.
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
> 30A.
US L2 chargers can be sourced with up to 80A 240V (100A breaker). Typically, the most powerful ones are either 40A or 48A 240V. The US has standard wall plugs that are 50A 240V. >7KW is commonplace.
European standards do not like imbalanced loads so they require large loads to be three phase. US standards handle those imbalances upstream and don't even bring three phase to the home.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, that makes sense. Some chonker cables though. Do many US cars support 22kW or more on AC?
Re: (Score:2)
In the US, and also in Europe, the VAST majority of EVs today only support 12KW or less regardless of what the outlet is theoretically rated for. This is why 3-phase isn't actually that big a deal.
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
NACS lacks backwards compatibility with 1772, the primary reason CCS (1) is the way it is. It's not a toss up, NACS is worse in the features that matter.
Tesla participated in the development of CCS and then actively chose not to support it. In Europe they were forced to comply to the benefit of consumers. In the US they were not and now the consumer suffers. NACS is a glaring example of the consequences that occur when the government does not play its role and instead allow sociopaths to damage the mark
Re: (Score:2)
The Tesla connector seems like an odd design, given they were very concerned about charging speed in the early days, and made a big deal of it being the fastest on the market... Yet it doesn't support 3 phase AC, which would have been very useful for people wanting to charge at home, and for cheap AC chargers at businesses and workplaces.
They could have had 3x the speed from AC charging, the only downside being a slightly bulkier connector.
Re:like usual (Score:4, Informative)
US homes don't have three phase. Tesla is US-centric. Also, Tesla's concern with charging speed was not L2, it was L3. AC charging is not the fastest regardless.
It should also be understood that AC charging rarely occurs at 20 KW, at least in the US, even though that exists in the standard. L2 charging is generally overnight or at least over several hours. 20 KW isn't really beneficial in L2 unless your battery/consumption is enormous.
The average US driver travels about 40 miles a day in mostly city miles. Even with poor efficiency, a BEV would need only charge 15-20 kWh daily to support that. There is simply no justification for three phase AC charging when even 7KW charging satisfies average demand in 2-3 hours. Hell, many US users can meet charging needs with L1 charging.
I would agree with you that 3-phase is a nice feature that CCS2 provides and that should be a requirement in Europe, but US users will never have that. Our system is designed differently and our three phase is never brought to the home. In commercial it is, but then the voltages and equipment are different. You have to be wealthy and extreme to bring commercial service into your home, most likely because you have a shop that requires three phase power. The cost of 3P electric to the home is wildly out of line with typical residential service, and BEV can get 20KW charging with 100A single phase service without it.
Re: (Score:2)
> NACS lacks backwards compatibility with 1772
They are electrically compatible and use the same communication scheme; You only need an adapter. For AC charging this has always been the case, and for DCFC it's only Teslas older than 2018 I believe that are not compatible and need an ungraded onboard charger unit.
=Smidge=
Part of north america not europe (Score:2)
like usual, canada gets screwed
Perhaps they could remember that they are part of north america not europe?
always located where fresh good and restrooms are (Score:1, Interesting)
hahaha so true, I pulled up map of Chicago area and the whites and asians have conveniently located chargers, the well-to-do whites and asians LOTS of them, but if you're black apparently they think you should just fuck off
Re: always located where fresh good and restrooms (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In other words, they're fucking over the whites now in addition to the blacks.
A lot of the boomer rage can be summarized as, "They're treating me like a negro!"
Re: (Score:2)
Lululemon
This is a good thing, but... (Score:3)
...it may make life more difficult for Tesla owners in the short term
We need LOTS more chargers, and they need to be reliable and properly maintained
Re: (Score:2)
The chargers need to be where people sleep.
The idea that your everyday charger is going to be out "on the road" somewhere, and you're going to be competing for a spot with random people, is a holdover from the days of gasoline fuel. It's not necessary and it's the cause of range anxiety, which is also making EVs worse than they need to be (more weight, higher cost.)
Re: (Score:3)
Yes chargers where people sleep are important, but so are DC Fast Chargers. If you drive over ~250 miles in a day more than once every three months then superchargers are critical to adoption. If the drive is entirely on interstates today you can likely pull it off, but if you have more than 100 miles on state or local roads you are generally out of luck.
Re: (Score:3)
The problem is that there another, unrelated idea and that is to prevent the average person from owning their own place to sleep. When you rent it, you can't decide whether there's a charger there or not.
Of course, cars are becoming unaffordable just like housing is, so perhaps the problem is short term regardless.
Nazi electricity (Score:2)
GM (Score:2)
From your link:
"Did Alfred P. Sloan’s brainchild collude with the Nazis?
No, is the short answer from Yale historian Henry Ashby Turner Jr."
The article then goes on to say that Germany basically nationalized Opel, kicking out the Americans. Kind of like what Venezuela did to GM in 2007.
Annoying (Score:2)
It's annoying that you "need permission" to access a charging network. If you have a compatible physical connector, compatible protocol, and a payment method you should be allowed to access any charging network. This should include "point of sale" payment too, not "you have to create an account and have an app" nonsense.
We need "gas station" equivalent charging on the highways, every 50 miles or so. If you had this, most charging concerns go away. I have tons of "local" charging around where I live, whe