Rival Browsers Allege Microsoft's Practices on Edge Unfair (usnews.com) 56
Microsoft gives its Edge web browser an unfair advantage and EU antitrust regulators should subject it to tough EU tech rules, three rival browsers and a group of web developers said in a letter to the European Commission. From a report: The move by Vivaldi, Waterfox, Wavebox and the Open Web Advocacy could boost Norwegian browser company Opera which in July took the European Commission to court for exempting Edge from the Digital Markets Act (DMA). [...] "Unfair practices are currently allowed to persist on the Windows' ecosystem with respect to Edge, unmitigated by the choice screens that exist on mobile," they said, pointing to Edge set as the default browser on all Windows computers. "No platform independent browser can aspire to match Edge's unparalleled distribution advantage on Windows. Edge is, moreover, the most important gateway for consumers to download an independent browser on Windows PCs."
Possibly. But who uses Edge? (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean, just try one of the alternatives and Edge becomes the brain-damaged crappy choice that nobody wants.
Re:Possibly. But who uses Edge? (Score:4, Informative)
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Now, when the Linux desktop reaches 10% adoption, we'll be witnessing a real movement, won't we!
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Obvious flamebait is obvious. 0/10
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Just grabbed the first link from google: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-... [statcounter.com]
ChomeOS is a Linux distribution.
Linux is Linux.
Uknown is likely to be Linux.
Together, they account for over 10% (about 12%).
Meanwhile, OS X is around 15%.
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The argument of Edge having unfair distribution on Windows ignores Chrome's 65% market share. (https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide)
It being bundled with Windows definitely helps (or else Firefox would be more widely used than Edge), but it's no longer an industry-determining factor when the bundled browser accounts for only 14% of all desktop browser use.
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Google still very aggressively pushes Chrome. So aggressively, in fact, that many unsophisticated users believe that they need Chrome to use gmail or search. I'm also fairly confident that I've see it bundled with other programs recently as well.
Use FireFox to promote a free and open web.
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I spent 20 minutes trying to get chrome as default browser on win11. Can you believe they added an option to chrome that defaults to using edge for all web pages link ????
Re: Possibly. But who uses Edge? (Score:2)
Low market share doesn't cancel the unfair practices. These practices are real, and the low market share is just a consequence of people being tired of Microsoft and its past seemingly eternal domination over the Web with the standards-ignoring Internet Explorer (and maybe some dissatisfaction with Edge's qualities, too).
With all that said, alternative browsers like Vivaldi and others are not likely to benefit much by any action against Edge. Sad, but a fact.
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This. If you're in a locked-down M365 environment, you're using Edge. Edge these days isn't bad, for work use.
Re: Possibly. But who uses Edge? (Score:2)
Yep. I have found it to be no worse than chrome in general, and slightly superior in some respects. It is better behaved in terms of windowing operations working correctly. My only "choices" are edge or chrome.
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I can be cleaned up a lot from the settings.
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I don't use it myself but I admit I do promote it in my company: it ties in nicely with Microsoft 365 logins so users don't have to enter passwords left, right and centre which therefore get forgotten, noted on post-its stuck to the screen or set to recycled passwords they use for personal devices. It has zero usability issues as it shares Chrome's engine and of course is well tested for MS web apps.
Again? (Score:2)
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In this case, the competition sucks. I don't want their stupid browsers, nor do I think it's Microsoft's job to market them.
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Really? Why do you think we should use those other browsers? Guaranteed when they start getting fat they'll want to make money, either you have to pay them or they'll sell you as a product. At least with Microsoft they are a public company and also subject to scrutiny.
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No. Microsoft isn't a monopoly (Macs exist, Linux exists, and both come with a default browser). And some scrutiny is better than none.
Re: Again? (Score:2)
You are missing the point (or maybe you're deliberately beating a straw man). The point isn't the quality of alternative browsers, but the freedom of users to use whatever they want. Microsoft clearly restricts that freedom, plus they're using their OS as a vehicle to achieve that, a practice found illegal and for which they have been already sanctioned.
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Is there anything in Windows blocking those browsers? No. Anyone can use download and use any browser. The proof is that people are using Chrome and Firefox. You don't find calculator app makers indignant about MS Calc? Did Adobe ever sue about MS Paint? These browser makers are mad that Microsoft includes a browser and want there to be an annoying pop-up directing people to their own browser app.
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And yes, there is something blocking the other browsers. Not only do they make it extremely difficult to set the default browser on Windows, you can't set another browser as the default in every circumstance. It's ironic that Microsoft is piggy backing on technology that Google helped advance in the first place to do it, too.
The problem isn't just with Edge
What? (Score:2, Interesting)
Those three browsers suck. They want the EU to force us to use those. Name something I should care about that those browsers have? I rather just use Chromium or something like that. Fuck it I dont even need a GUI, I'll use lynx or just curl instead of fucking with those browsers.
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Well, for one, I really like that my bookmarks and history are synced across all the devices I use.
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That isn't a special or unique feature.
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If you're using lynx or curl as OP suggested, yeah, it is.
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But it's not special or unique from Chromium, which is where he started before downgrading further, thus not a feature he would care about.
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OK fine, *he* wouldn't care about it. I do, and so do many others.
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Whoop-de-doo. He said name something he should care about.
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Sorry, I don't know him, so I had to assume he was a somewhat normal human being.
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Then you should have named a better feature. I have never used any version bookmarks/favorites since they've become a thing, and I don't want my history synced. My phone does not need the historical records of my PC web browsing, and it's a stupid concept to begin with. I can either send the link over to my phone or just search it up again fresh.
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The only real difference in Chromium and Chrome is browser sync and tracking.
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Name something I should care about that those browsers have?
Crypto-mining. Crypto-wallets. Fifteen unneeded extensions built-in (including various third-party game stores). Yet-another-authentication-store. You know, THE ESSENTIALS!
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I have been using opera for a long time. At the beginning, I was using it because it was full featured out of the box, I never installed any plugins. It even did syncing before many of the other ones.
Re: What? (Score:2)
The EU won't force anyone to use anything. Quite the contrary, it's Microsoft which currently forces users who don't know better to use Edge
History repeating itself (Score:3, Informative)
Re:History repeating itself (Score:4, Insightful)
How many times does this make Microsoft receiving legal action for unfairly promoting its browser?
I loathe that they do this, but at this stage, I'm of the persuasion that they have a case.
Bundling Chrome with ChromeOS, and requiring users to drop to a command line and install a flatpak is, apparently, okay when Google does it.
Bundling Safari with iOS, and actively inhibiting other browsers from running their own render engines is, apparently, okay when Apple does it.
Bundling Edge with Windows, which at worst gives dismissable paper-tiger warnings is, apparently, worthy of litigation.
Edge is a pain because of how many buttons and knobs are required to tell it to shut up and just display a website, and it's more problematic that it's nearly impossible to permanently remove from Windows...but if both Google and Apple can do that, then I don't see how it's reasonable to call out Microsoft specifically.
Either mandate that OSes *must* have a mechanism to install alternative browsers, complete with their distinct render engines, as well as a mechanism to uninstall the first party browser, and mandate Apple, Google, and Microsoft *all* do so...or ignore the problem and let people choose their OS based on their preferred browser if it really is that important.
Re: History repeating itself (Score:2)
"Bundling Safari with iOS, and actively inhibiting other browsers from running their own render engines is, apparently, okay when Apple does it."
EU: Hold my bier
What, again? (Score:2)
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Yes, but that was because Microsoft leveraged their Windows monopoly to promote IE everywhere. It didn't help that the competing browser stunk by comparison (back in the Netscape 6 era when it was a bloated mess).
These days it's somewhat different. Edge has barely any marketshare - Chrome is where it's at. Sites are not "Optimized for IE" - something MIcrosoft promoted heavily that
Its Microsofts OS (Score:1)
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Ok (Score:2)
Not that Edge is "better", but holy shit Vivaldi, Waterfox, Wavebox, and Opera all suck. Vivaldi is a mess of too much customization and two-tier tabs are stupid. Waterfox looks like it was made by a child - which it was when it came out. Wavebox is just a straight up scam. And Opera, I've always wanted to like, but every time I try it, it's just not worth it.
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You are right about opera. Once the other browsers caught up with the feature set and it had moved to chromium, there really isnt anything left going for it.
- typed from Opera
Safari says (Score:2)
Norwegian company? (Score:3)
Opera is 72% owned by a Chinese investment company. It's CEO is a Chinese billionaire Zhou Yahui, the owner of said investment company.
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I'm guessing you're in the US based on the obsession with China. Foreigners own 47% of the top US companies as of 2019, and it only goes up every year. Does that mean they're not US companies?
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Not even close.
I just don't like it when people say things that are misleading at best.
Why even say it's a Norwegian company in the first place?
Gogole must be chuckling.. (Score:2)
Why does this matter anymore? (Score:3)
* Mobile devices account for around 60% of the world's internet usage these days.
* Apple requires every browser on iOS to be a reskin of Webkit. This is effectively like saying you're going to go to McDonalds, but decide on Burger King, but when you walk into the Burger King it's also McDonald's food. And then you go next door to Wendy's and it's also McDonald's food.
* So you have an internet dominated by either Chrome or Safari.
* Edge on Windows is a Chromium reskin with Microsoft-specific tie-ins (use Microsoft Accounts instead of Google Accounts) and some minor customizations outside of the core browsing experience.
* Who gives a shit if Microsoft literally makes Edge the ONLY browser on Windows? They don't hold the dominant position in the market that they once did and there's literally nobody that can argue they have a monopoly on the web.