Senator Calls Out John Deere For Clean Air Act Violations, Blocking Farmer Repairs (substack.com) 48
"The Fight to Repair Newsletter is reporting that U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren is calling out agricultural equipment giant John Deere for possible violations of the federal Clean Air Act and a years-long pattern of thwarting owners' ability to repair their farm equipment," writes longtime Slashdot reader chicksdaddy. From the report: Deere "appears to be evading its responsibilities under the Clean Air Act to grant customers the right to repair their own agricultural equipment." That is costing farmers an estimated $4.2 billion annually "causing them to miss key crop windows on which their businesses and livelihoods rely," Warren wrote in a letter (https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/3/24260513/john-deere-right-to-repair-elizabeth-warren-clean-air-act) dated October 2nd. The letter from Warren (PDF), a Senator from Massachusetts and strong repair advocate, is just the latest volley lobbed at Illinois-based Deere, an iconic American brand and the largest supplier of agricultural equipment to farms in the U.S. Deere controls an estimated 53 percent of the U.S. market for large tractors and 60 percent of the U.S. market for farm combines.
In recent weeks, Deere faced criticism, including from Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, after laying off close to 2,000 U.S. based employees at facilities in Iowa and Illinois, moving many of those jobs to facilities in Mexico. The company has also been repeatedly called out for complicating repair and service of its farm equipment -- often relying on software locks and digital rights management to force farmers to use Deere dealers and authorized service providers for even the simplest repairs.
In recent weeks, Deere faced criticism, including from Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, after laying off close to 2,000 U.S. based employees at facilities in Iowa and Illinois, moving many of those jobs to facilities in Mexico. The company has also been repeatedly called out for complicating repair and service of its farm equipment -- often relying on software locks and digital rights management to force farmers to use Deere dealers and authorized service providers for even the simplest repairs.
Glad I donâ(TM)t work these anymoreâ (Score:2)
Re:Glad I donâ(TM)t work these anymoreâ (Score:2)
fixing the headline (Score:1)
First, it's a blog post
Current headline: Senator Calls Out Deere For Clean Air Act Violations, Blocking Farmer Repairs
Suggested headline: Multi-millionaire 75 Year Old Geriatric Democrat Senator Seeks to Virtue Signal to Sway Midwest Voters to Vote Democrat
The political play, find an issue with strong opinions amongst a group of people, unlikely to lose you voters in other groups, and then amplify said feeling,
Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)
Current headline: Senator Calls Out Deere For Clean Air Act Violations, Blocking Farmer Repairs
Suggested headline: Multi-millionaire 75 Year Old Geriatric Democrat Senator Seeks to Virtue Signal to Sway Midwest Voters to Vote Democrat
The political play, find an issue with strong opinions amongst a group of people, unlikely to lose you voters in other groups, and then amplify said feeling,
I am not a Democrat. This is a party that fought a war to preserve slavery, birthed the KKK, supported eugenics, continu
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
With the flip in party affiliation, the Republicans are now the proud owners of that legacy: This is a party that fought a war to preserve slavery, birthed the KKK, supported eugenics, continued their abhorrent racism well into the 1960s by perpetuating Jim Crow, and represented the bulk of opposition to both the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Rights Amendment. This is a party that had an ex-KKK member in congress until the 2010s.
"Democrats are a bunch of wealthy, corrupt, evil, ruling-class assholes", and
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For example:
Woke = Out
Misinformation = Out
Hate Speech laws = Out
Against AI = Out
News Companies Getting Paid By Search Engines = Out
Immigration is fine = Out
If they don't auto-fail from my list, then they're still a candidate regardless of their political affiliation. That said, Elizabeth Warren has been playing in
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First, it's a blog post
Current headline: Senator Calls Out Deere For Clean Air Act Violations, Blocking Farmer Repairs
Suggested headline: Multi-millionaire 75 Year Old Geriatric Democrat Senator Seeks to Virtue Signal to Sway Midwest Voters to Vote Democrat
The political play, find an issue with strong opinions amongst a group of people, unlikely to lose you voters in other groups, and then amplify said feeling,
When a politician does something most of us think is probably at least a nod towards decency and helping the people, must we immediately heap the entirety of their political party's sins on their shoulders before judging their immediate actions? I'm frankly quite tired of being told that the people alive now need to feel all the guilt for everything all of humanity has gotten wrong since the industrial revolution. I think, sometimes, in our obsession to paint everything in darkness, even the tiny pinpricks
Explaining the comment (Score:2)
It's simply that even of I agree with the need for more right to repair advocacy in the USA, taking note of a politician expressing that opinion is not altruistic on their part. It is a way to win votes and win elections.
Right to repair's been on the national scene since 2012 Massachusetts law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Pandering, winning voters over by issue pushing is standard politics for decades, fully expect national level politicians to have an army of researchers and consultants giving them th
Very simple solution (Score:3)
The fix to this problem is easy. Pass legislation that, after a 2 calendar day grace period, imposes nonwaivable liquidated damages of $10,000 per day on a vehicle or machinery manufacturer that locks down repairs or restricts repairs to specific networks. States do this to electric power monopolies to force maintenance on infrastructure.
Re:Very simple solution (Score:4, Insightful)
What's so special about vehicles and machinery? Just do it for anything which is infected with DRM.
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Off the cuff first drafts tend to miss things.
I say it's time to send John Deere a 'Dear John. (Score:4, Funny)
I say it's time to send John Deere a 'Dear John.
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Ah, yes, the Olde "nothing can be done" defense. No, we can make it stop, Congress just refuses to act.
What responsibility ... (Score:3)
Does this extend to other vehicles as well? Should truck manufacturers be prevented from locking down ECMs to prevent people from re-tuning them to "roll coal"?
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The problem is, Deere uses emissions as an excuse, but they lock out repairs to a LOT more than just emissions.
Plenty of options to repair Deere equipment (Score:3, Interesting)
This has become such a ridiculous "cause celebre" for people that have probably never had dirt under their fingernails.
The new tractors have good warranties, and extended warranties are available. Software updates are available for free, ota. Repair resources are available on Deere's website.
Speaking as someone from the midwest: If a farmer has a breakdown...NO, it doesn't shut them down for the season. Neighboring farmers routinely step in to help those in need. And often, neighbors are already banding together to harvest each others fields with multiple machines at once....it's just more efficient.
FFS, read about what is available, before screeching:
https://www.deere.com/en/our-c... [deere.com]
https://www.diesellaptops.com/ [diesellaptops.com]
https://diagsoft-solutions.com... [diagsoft-solutions.com]
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Also your friendly Deere dealership is happy to rent you a machine while they work on yours!
Personally I am sick and tired of emissions problems on these machines. If it's so important, the same laws that mandate my engines have emissions control systems including DPF and DEF should also mandate a *very* long warranty for the emissions-control equipment. If Bosch were forced to honor a 10-year warranty, or better yet lifetime warranty, no farmer would complain too much about DEF. I certainly wouldn't comp
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Are you saying that you were able to successfully diagnose the John Deere dosing pump on your own?! Impossible!...according to RTR advocates.
I sympathize with what you're saying about a cheap sub-part, but long wait time....but that argument could be made with any moderately complex device. Is bosch supposed to supply individual resistors for ECM repairs? On some level, I think it's reasonable that manufacturers only repair things down to a certain "module level".
That being said, I regularly do $80 dolla
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This wasn't a Deere machine. The built-in diagnostics system could show me DEF pressure. Deere can do the same to a large degree. And you can look up the error codes. But usually such problems are also accompanied by derates, which often require a dealer (or a grey-market laptop) to clear.
If Bosch was forced to honor a warranty the dealer would replace the unit for free (no cost part at least). Hopefully this would encourage Bosch and the tractor manufacturer to concentrate on making the dosing module r
Re:Plenty of options to repair Deere equipment (Score:5, Interesting)
I should say that the biggest right-to-repair issue with Deere isn't that I can't find out what codes mean. It's that replacement electronic parts have to be programmed by the dealer when they are installed with the proper payload and are serial-number locked. Otherwise they won't work. And in order to do that the dealer has to go to the mothership for each and every payload they need to program into the board. And Deere charges the dealership every time. It's the ultimate check-cashing racket that Deere has. You can't even move a module like the armrest controller computer from one machine to another without getting a new payload. If all this didn't exist, third parties could provide replacement, compatible circuit boards and ECUs. But we can't have that!
I have an excellent Deere dealer with service guys that know their stuff. They are willing to send me PDFs of internal documents when they know it's something simple I can fix myself. I like Deere's machines. They've been very reliable for me. When you spend all day operating one, comfort is important and Deere's cabs are the most comfortable in the industry. Even the steering response is above all other brands. Very smooth and easy. And Deere's auto steering is the absolute best (and I've run most of them). But my next big tractor will most likely not be a John Deere, for this and other reasons including how expensive they are now.
All of my John Deere tractors are now getting fairly old. Maybe they should be forced to open up all their specifications for machines older than 15 years. Even 20 years would be a leap over what we have now. Let third parties take the specs and protocols and build replacement hardware, much like we see for older automobiles.
Plenty of options other than buying Deere... (Score:3)
New Holland, Case, Caterpillar, Claas, Lamborghini, Kinze.
Just because Deere is the biggest, and makes good equipment...doesn't mean anyone is forced to buy their equipment.
If they're so "evil"...stop buying their gear.
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Spoken like someone who plays Farm Simulator and not an actual farmer that has to pick a vendor from the few that have service shops nearby. Deere is so pervasive in the USA that many farmers have no other choice.
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"pervasive"? I think you mean "successful".
Farmers have a choice...but you're now saying their complaint is "convenience".
But hey, if those other manufacturers are so much better for repair by farmers...I guess it's a non issue, since they'll never have to interact with the dealers again after purchase since they can fix things themselves.
Go drive through farm country...there are plenty of farmers using equipment that isn't green.
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People are importing equipment from China now, primarily from the Alibaba website. There are lots of YouTube videos about it, especially things like excavators and small tractors. Even with the hassle of having to pick it up from a container at the port, they are so much cheaper people find it worthwhile.
Of course you do get what you pay for to some extent, but they are also exactly what many people claim to want - simple, reliable machines, with no reliance on software or DRM, and very easy to maintain. Li
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And those Chinese machines will be bricked if there is ever a real conflict between the U.S. and the Chinese CCP leeches.
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That's the point though, they don't have internet connected control systems or anything like that, they are offline and relatively easy to repair. Few if any custom parts.
If you are worried about remote bricking, I'd be more worried that John Deere's security isn't so hot and their equipment will get bricked in a conflict.
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No, that's not an issue since imported Chinese equipment has minimal electronics. But the problem will be parts and service. Chinese tractors will still run fine, though. Chinese companies do not make large tractors.
Former Soviet companies do make large tractors, and they have had some success selling into the North American market over the years. They were advertised as reliable, rugged, and designed to be repaired by farmers. Putin's invasion of Ukraine and war has pretty much killed their market tho
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New Holland, Case, Caterpillar, Claas, Lamborghini, Kinze.
... are workable alternatives only until they start the same bullshit.
Meanwhile I have indeed avoided buying John Deere. When I was buying a tractor and I told the dealer (a used dealer btw) about the issues around John Deere, it seemed like he had not heard of them.
I Feel Like This Issue is Misunderstood (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about much more than the Right to Repair. It's 100% about personal property rights.
For most of human history, when you purchased an item, ownership of that item transferred to you. It becomes your personal property. As your personal property, you determined how it was used. Your purchase granted you both control as well as liability for the item. This was considered to be common-sense and uncontroversial.
Relatively recently, Corporate America devised a scheme that would allow them to significantly remove long-established rights to private property. It allowed them to sell an item, but retain control of the item, transferring only the liability to the new "owner". These scheme works like this:
If you sell an items that requires any amount of code to function, you claim that while the item was indeed sold, the code was licensed. Therefore, the new owner own the item, and bore responsibility for it's repair and maintenance, but the company the sold it retained control of the item, including how it was used, when it was used, or even if it could be used.
Of course, this was patently laughable.
This mean the if you sold a toaster, and the toaster had a code anywhere in it, that the consumer did not actually buy a full, working toaster. They bought a bunch of steel and wires, which did not do anything without the included chip, but you never actually sold them the code contained on the chip, you only licensed it to them. Oh, and as part of that license, you forbid them from using any other chip. Furthermore, you could materially alter the toaster at any time, even removing it's ability to toast, but if the consumer had ever used the toaster, they had agreed to let you turn it in a non-toaster, or anything you dreamed up. At least this was your position.
By the 2000s, this scheme could transfer to just about anything. Watches, TVs, refigerators, cars, coffee makers, ovens, you name it, it was no longer yours. Unless it broke down. In which case it was 100% yours.
When this scheme first started, most people ignored it, because it was so ludicrious they were well aware that no modern, Democratic, reasonably-ethical government would ever let it become the law of the land. They frog-in-the-bioling-potted it up to the the current situation.
Fast forward to 2024. You no longer own anything. Unless it breaks. You pay for it, but corporate America retains control, as well as the ability to use it to profit in any way they deem fit. Even if it removes your ability to profit from it. In 2024, if you sell an item which requires any amount of code to make it function, and do what you advertised it to do, you can legally seperate the code that makes the item work, from the item itself. And you can se this unbundling scheme to seize the private property rights of the owner, and you can force the "owner" to use the item to serve the corporation's interests, regarldess of whether or not those actions serve the "owner's" interests. The item essentially exists primarily to benefit the seller, in perpetuity, while removing the new "owner's" ability to have it primarily serve their own issue.
The current debate revolves around whether private property rights should be returned to purchasers, where anthing that makes an item work becomes the prima facie property of the purchaser. Or if companies can sell items to the public, without transferring full ownership of the items, essentially terminating private property rights and turning "purchases" into perpetual leases. Essentially, we'd lease every we use on a daily basis from a company, and own nothing.
So, while your John Deere tractor may work great, and you have no problem with maintaiance, repears, or anything else, and we are all very happty for your satisfaction, the issue is about so much more than you and your tractor. You and your tractor are merely a representative case of a far larger class of items.
P.S. Remember to pay your taxes, quality government like this is not cheap.
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This issue played out decades ago, when cars started getting built with electronic fuel injection.
BS. You are talking about a different issue which is that electronic systems (and mechanical sub-systems) usually have to be replaced as whole units these days. In olden days you could buy eg every spring in a carburettor separately, but no-one replaces single resistors in an electronic injection system. If cars still used carburettors, you would likewise probably have to buy an entire new one if a spring broke.
However, until recently at least you could replace a whole unit like an injector control modu
Re: I Feel Like This Issue is Misunderstood (Score:2)
You still could just replace parts if deer didn't activily block it. The ENTIRE complexity is fake and only added to make deermoney
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no-one replaces single resistors in an electronic injection system.
I've done it in ECMs, ABS modules, digital dashboards, sensors, even airbag modules.
If cars still used carburettors, you would likewise probably have to buy an entire new one if a spring broke.
Nonsense....individual carburetor parts are STILL widely available.
if you replace a module physically, it won't work unless the other related modules are told its unique identity code
Ooooo a "unique identity code"! You mean, like, a VIN number? Cars have been doing this for some time now...it's not a new situation...and people still manage.
It's a PITA, but nothing special about Deere. People are fixating on Deere "BECAUSE FARM", but they're perfectly fine buying locked down cars that they dispose of in a few years.
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Some of those "dumb redneck" farmers have downloaded bootleg dealer software from eastern Europe and installed it on their laptops. You seem to have an outmoded image of farmers that I doubt was ever actually true.
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Some
Yes..."some". The ones that take the initiative to do some research.
But people throwing their hands up in defeat, without doing some basic Googling, is a pretty common phenomenon nowadays.
You seem to have an outmoded image of farmers that I doubt was ever actually true.
Not at all...I'm from the midwest...I know farmers that are millionaires...I know ag engineers. But I also know that there are lots of farmers that have no interest in continuing their education, refining their process, or doing things any differently than their "pappy" did.
Re:I Feel Like This Issue is Misunderstood (Score:5, Insightful)
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It started in the '70s with TVs that had funky bolts. The excuse was that it was to keep people from hurting themselves on the high voltage. Yes, the same people who had been replacing tubes in TVs for years to the point that many retail businesses had tube testers available to the public.
In the '80s I tried fixing a VCR and mysteriously couldn't get it to go through it's motions with the cover off so I could see what went wrong. There was a photodiode on the board that appeared to be exclusively for the pu
Quit buying John Deere (Score:2)
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Enough farmers stop buying their tractors, they will stop.
This!
AGCO supports right-to-repair on their farm equipment. Stop buying John Deer and by AGCO instead.
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It takes a long time to lose a dominant market position, but Deere seems to be working hard at it.