Global EV Sales Up 30.5% In September (reuters.com) 136
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Global sales of fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose by an annual 30.5% in September, as China surpassed its record numbers recorded in August and Europe resumed growth, market research firm Rho Motion said on Tuesday. Gains in the U.S. market have been slow and steady in anticipation of the Nov. 5 election, which makes it difficult to predict future trends in the country, data manager Charles Lester told Reuters. EVs -- whether fully electric (BEV) or plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) -- sold worldwide reached 1.69 million in September, Rho Motion data showed.
Sales in China jumped 47.9% in September and reached 1.12 million vehicles, while in the United States and Canada they were up 4.3% to 0.15 million. In Europe, EV sales rose 4.2% to 0.3 million units, thanks to a 24% jump in the United Kingdom and gains in Italy, Germany and Denmark, Lester said. In the Chinese market, the penetration rate of BEV and PHEV is growing faster than some expected and sales "could be a record every month until the end of the year", Lester said. He added that Germany's 7% year-on-year growth was "definitely positive news", and that intermediate carbon emission reduction goals set in the EU for next year will test the bloc's market.
Sales in China jumped 47.9% in September and reached 1.12 million vehicles, while in the United States and Canada they were up 4.3% to 0.15 million. In Europe, EV sales rose 4.2% to 0.3 million units, thanks to a 24% jump in the United Kingdom and gains in Italy, Germany and Denmark, Lester said. In the Chinese market, the penetration rate of BEV and PHEV is growing faster than some expected and sales "could be a record every month until the end of the year", Lester said. He added that Germany's 7% year-on-year growth was "definitely positive news", and that intermediate carbon emission reduction goals set in the EU for next year will test the bloc's market.
Meanwhile Tesla's stock cratered 9% (Score:2)
Tesla needs to update it tech or it's gonna get it's lunch eating. The Cybertruck has been a disaster and they've run through all the preorders. Turns out you can't just turn a middling SUV into a truck on a whim. They did get a nice sto
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While the Cybertruck struggles to not short circuit in any amount of water, a Rivian can apparently survive a hurricane induced flood [imgur.com] and go on to deliver supplies.
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While the Cybertruck struggles to not short circuit in any amount of water, a Rivian can apparently survive a hurricane induced flood [imgur.com] and go on to deliver supplies.
Rivians have the added benefit of not looking like your truck got stuck cosplaying like it was in a sci-fi movie from 1957.
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Tesla is going to struggle until it can get rid of its public perception of being Elon Musk and focus on making profitable EVs that remain an excellent value proposition.
The fact that Tesla can profitably make EVs that are 10+% less than similar competitors is HUGE for the company, but people seem to be willing to pay the extra to avoid association with Musk.
The Cyber Truck seems like a miss too. It was revealed in prototype form as something innovative putting function over form. As it went into production
They tried, Musk blocked them (Score:2)
Well, he hired them, then immediately fired them.
Tesla *is* Musk. It lives and dies by Musk. There's no getting around that. He has friends on the board of directors and between their shares and his Tesla might as well be a privately owned company. He has controlling interest thanks to his buddy's shares, so none of the usual breaks and safety measures work.
The only reason his $55bn dollar pay package (more than all the profit Tesla
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What do people have against Musk?
Seems a pretty successful guy with EVs, space, satellites, etc....?
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What do people have against Musk?
Seems a pretty successful guy with EVs, space, satellites, etc....?
Musk is his own worst enemy when it comes to public perception. Right around the time SpaceX started making too much progress for the old guard space companies' comfort, Musk started shoving his foot firmly down his own throat with public statements supporting the far right. I'm sure a lot of the ultra-wealthy, like Bezos and Zuckerberg support those same far-right policies, but they're smart enough to not publicly post/talk about it because they know it would only enflame the left and the media. So, combin
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He purchased Twitter to make it more biased and worse signal to noise.
He is loudly political in a way contrary to a large percentage of the potential EV buyers.
He's implied he needs to out breed his customers to save the world.
Would I pay extra to buy a car not made by him? No
But I buy used cars for $15-20k, so it's not so relevant.
I would pay extra for physical buttons and door handles, but I'm not sure the price delta between a model Y and ioniq 5 is small enough for me.
The numbers do seem to show the tre
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It didn't help that their CEO started hanging out with Nazis and allowed himself to double down on only right wing memes.
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Yeah it's funny how quickly the video of him and his brother Kimbal admitting they were illegal in the US .
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(was suppressed). FYI here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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though it looks like it's back up after the dip. Basically a large sell off when that event flopped and then it stabilized. It's still at half what it was 3 years ago. Though I guess better than it was 6 mo ago when it was half what it is today (or 1/4 the 3 year high).
Tesla's stock is based on speculative value, and you've presumably seen enough cryptocurrency and meme stock stories to know how that works. That's more the fault of Wall St. living in some fantasy world rather than anything Tesla is doing wrong, though.
They make $8k per car, which sounds nice until you realize that's with a $7500 gov't subsidy that's on track to go away in a few years.
Might go away even sooner if Musk gets his presidential endorsement wish granted. It certainly is weird watching a CEO sabotage his company in real time.
When it does unless Tesla pulls some major tech out of their bums and gets us a sub $30k 4 door EV Sedan they're dead walking.
You're probably already well familiar with the average selling price of a new vehicle in the USA, so it
Re:Meanwhile Tesla's stock cratered 9% (Score:4, Informative)
B.S.
Model Y is the most sold car in the world for a reason.
Big surprise (Score:2)
Re:Big surprise (Score:5, Informative)
Big surprise. In China where they are $20k there was a 40% increase. Here where they are $60k the increase was 4%.
A Model 3 starts at $38,990. Real-world pricing for the Chevrolet Equinox around my neck of the woods starts at $39,135. From personal experience, if you tell a Chevy dealer "I'm not paying Tesla prices for a Chevy EV", they absolutely will come down a bit on the price.
Also, the Chevy does qualify for the $7,500 tax credit, but the base Model 3 does not. It's complicated. [cars.com]
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I sincerely hope you hurt yourself trying to move that goal post that quickly...
> Ok so both those vehicles are $50K
38 does not round off to 50.
=Smidge=
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Ok so both those vehicles are $50K and nowhere near the cargo capacity of an Explorer. Do either of them even seat six?
All very important metrics for daily single person commuters and mothers with one child.
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In the UK you can get a 250 mile range MG MG5 for under £20k. It's the shame the US seems more interested in protecting its very slow automotive industry than in getting affordable EVs into people's hands.
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The news is not about a competition between China and the rest of the world or whether those results should be expected, you just choose to read it that way then fabricate some evidence to denigrate those reporting the numbers.
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EVs are a strategic sector in China. That means government assistance and subsidization at every level of government, from CCP head of a random farming village all the way to Xi himself.
So they're going to appear cheap because of all those efforts. If you actually attempt to price in those efforts, they're astronomically expensive overall.
But that's how Communist system works fundamentally. USSR focused same amount on military, and it was good enough to the point where Ukraine and Russia in spite of mass ne
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>There is nothing preventing our governments from matching the subsidies that China gives.
Other than of course that our governments are not totalitarian Communist, and so have no ability to do things that CCP can in PRC.
>I feel
Unironically, this is the main problem. People "feel" or more accurately "intuit" too much, and find out and use logical constructs too little. This combined with fairly low IQ by East Asian standards combined with extreme social pressure to "feel" as much as possible and "think
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>Why do you think the US government doesn't have enough money to pay half for everyone's EV?
This is exactly my point on low IQ and feelings being incompatible with reality. Here's a person who genuinely believes that you can just take money and turn it into EVs. Because there's no actual understanding there of what it takes to take funds and turn them into products. Just throw money at it. I'm sure it'll work out!
And then there's a complete shut down of cognitive processes and pointed ignoring to avoid f
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Me:
>And then there's a complete shut down of cognitive processes and pointed ignoring to avoid feeling bad whenever this is done and obviously fails
You:
>I don't understand the question.
My entire point is that you cannot understand this exceptionally easy question. This has nothing to do with difficulty of the question. It has everything to do with ideology shutting down your cognitive processes when this question is asked.
Notice that I predicted this BEFORE it happened to you. How did I know this woul
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Every sale is great news. (Score:3)
Every save of an electric car is one less sale of a gas car, and therefore less reliance on oil from the middle east. Yes, The US is producing more oil now than any previous time in history of he country. But less oil means less worrying what the middle east is up to.
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It's even more impactful once you account for the cars that run on petrol.
There's always gotta be one of you. Here in the USA we call petrol "gas" even though it's not a gas. Sometimes we even eat crappy gas station food and it gives us gas while we get gas. It happens. [flickr.com]
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Because when someone buys a new EV they simply add another vehicle to the road and additional climate emissions. It does nothing to reduce emissions. Its the "not buying" a new ICE vehicle that reduces emissions comared to a new EV. But not buying any new vehicle would create even fewer emissions.
So if someone who otherwise wouldn't have bought a new vehicle at all buys a new EV to reduce emissions, they are mistaken. They are increasing emissions.
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I only know four people with EVs but three entirely replaced an ICEV with it.
So they junked their otherwise serviceable ICE vehicles and took them off the road? I think that is unusual. Most people trade their ICE vehicle in and it is used by someone else. It is still putting out just as many emissions. Without that EV on the road someone would have had to walk, bike or use transit. Or not taken the trip at all. Instead they can drive.
A simple example is someone buys a new EV and their kids drive the existing car to school instead of taking the bus. It really doesn't matter wheth
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Since some ICEVs are scrapped every year,
And they are scrapped whether someone buys an EV or not. I think you are missing the point:
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Unless you are expecting people to no longer drive cars, then a scrapped ICEV will be replaced by an ICEV. It is better that it gets replaced by an EV.
I agree. But buying an EV does not replace a scrapped ICEV, it adds a car.
The driving figures I quoted elsewhere show essentially no change in car miles per capita
Thus confirming that there are more people driving more miles (as the data shows) which is certainly easier the more vehicles there are to drive.
To encourage people to use the bus it needs to offer advantages.
No, it doesn't. At least not advantages to a car if they don't have a car available. But you are now seeing the issue. Someone who buys a ne
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No, as I noted, EVs will also replace ICEVs.
And yet you haven't provided a single situation in which that is true. In fact every EV purchased is an additional vehicle on the road. The only ICEV it replaces is a hypothetical new vehicle that wasn't purchased. You can plug that replacement into your computer model, but it doesn't exist in real life.
Without radical change elsewhere, it isn't likely to change.
Fewer cars means fewer miles traveled so buying an EV increases VMT. I don't see why "per capita VMT" matters. Its the total emissions whether from 1 person or 1 billion that cause climate change. And buying
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you are arguing by assertion and feelings with absolutely no data to back it up
You appear to be arguing based on faith with no logic to back it up. You assert that buying an EV takes an ICE car off the road. You have presented no evidence that is true and there is no logic that would make it true. Because it isn't.
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Total number of miles travelled per year by car in the USA has bounced around a bit,
Not really. Its increased every year [bts.gov] since 2011 with the exception of 2020 covid year when there was a very sharp drop.
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Total number of miles travelled per year by car in the USA has bounced around a bit,
Not really. Its increased every year [bts.gov] since 2011 with the exception of 2020 covid year when there was a very sharp drop.
Since 2011, but certainly not over the last 20 years. There's a question of how long to look for for a trend, but it's clearly possible for miles to fall without a pandemic. Also, after the 2020 drop it took a while to return to 2019 levels. It's not generally considered an appropriate analysis to state that it increased each year apart from one. If you look per capita, miles travelled by car fell by about 5% 2000 to 2022.
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It's not generally considered an appropriate analysis to state that it increased each year apart from one.
That is a ridiculous comment when the COVID epidemic is the one year of interruption,
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Your concerns don't seem to be backed up by actual data, at least not for the USA.
Actually that isn't the concern and this isn't a question of whether replacing ICE cars with EV's is a good idea. Its whether buying a new car of any kind is a way to reduce emissions. My assumption is that vehicles are driven until they wear out and that when someone doesn't have a vehicle they change their behavior in ways that reduce emissions by walking, biking, using transit, skipping trips etc.
This is the same basic assumption as lifetime emissions comparisons for a new ICE and new EV. The higher emis
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You think US oil prices wont rise when the Iran / Israeli war beaks out?
Yes, oil prices will rise, but I don't really think the US is trying to boost oil prices.
In 2-3 years I'll be looking for a new car (Score:2, Troll)
I'm hoping there's a robust and broad non-Tesla EV marketplace available when I'm ready to buy. If not, I might end up with another ICE vehicle, or just running my current one a few years longer (hey, I held onto that Escort Wagon for a very long time, I can do the same with the Camry).
I typically try to avoid letting personalities / politics affect my purchasing decisions, but Musk is such a flaming turd of a human that I simply can't see myself buying anything from a company for which he's the public face
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or just running my current one a few years longer (hey, I held onto that Escort Wagon for a very long time, I can do the same with the Camry).
I had an '02 Camry that I drove into the ground. Only ended up getting rid of it because it needed an engine rebuild and was costing me a fortune in gas.
If money wasn't an object, I'd probably be one of those crazy rich people with a fully restored vintage '02 Camry just because I really liked that car. And I'd probably still just drive my Bolt everywhere to keep from putting miles on the Camry.
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best is to run the old car into the ground; then buy an EV. There will be acceptable EVs but you won't ever get long range with short refills anytime soon. It's just a change in lifestyle that is mostly a big deal for wimps who can't adapt. We have a huge global problem and WTF is with people demanding everything has to be perfect for them to do something positive?!
My old 94 Escort was a nice little wagon for a starter car - but I NEVER took it on a long road trip after almost breaking down once. It's si
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Well, it's a hard sell for the average person to have them spend $$$, with a car being generally the 2nd most money they will spend aside from
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I didn't spend $$$ for my EV. It was cheap. No new car is cheap but we've got a decade of used EV out there now and they are in demand... not as easy to buy one a dealer hasn't bought up to jack up the price. I've had car dealers cold call me offering to buy my decade old EV! LOW resale value is a benefit to making them affordable! It's perceived value and not rational. I'm doing great with my used EV and it doesn't have any problems like a used ICE would at the same age. Even a reliable Volvo isn't hal
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Fucking concern trolls never change.
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So...what's so bad about Musk?
He's successful...sells EVs, space company, satellites, etc....
What's causing you all the hate there buddy?
Saw some driving a Hummer EV the other day (Score:2)
In the parking lot at an apple orchard.
Thing had tires as wide as a dump truck's.
Made the Rivians and Cybertrucks I see on the road look puny by comparison.
My first thought was, this dude isn't going apple picking, he's getting provisions for invading Russia. Until his battery runs out, that is.
Title mismatch (Score:2)
Posted Reuters article: "Global EV sales up 30.5% in September as China shines, Europe recuperates"
Article that Reuters links to: "Global EV sales up 20% in August despite 19-month low in Europe, Rho Motion says"
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Read the article again. The "recuperate" is the result of increasing EV sales after the slump in August resulting from Germany and France removing subsidies. Yeah EU sales are down but are trending up.
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Wow you are stupid.
You realize September is the month that comes after August right? FFS
Of course. That's why there is a title mismatch, idiot. If they wanted to talk about September then they should have quoted a September article.
Sales in the UK influenced by taxes (Score:3)
thanks to a 24% jump in the United Kingdom
And you know why that is? It's incredibly tax advantageous for small business owners to buy EVs as they can be entirely deducted against company profits and attract extremely low "benefit in kind" taxes and vehicle excise duties. These things are either being slowly wound back or there's a fear the new Labour government might yank out the tablecloth so now is a particularly good time to buy especially with the higher corporation tax rate. I assure you, though, that if it becomes no more financially advantageous to have an EV, I'm back in the gas guzzler :-)
Buy an EV...nope (Score:2)
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Yep...for me, the BEST car in the world...is the one that is PAID OFF.
I can't stand making car payments....there is SO much more I'd rather do with my disposable dollars.
Jolly Green Giant (Score:2)
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EVs aren't impactless.
That's true and driving any existing vehicle is better than buying a new EV. But if someone is buying a new car its likely an EV will have fewer emissions than a pure ICE car. It may or may not have fewer emissions than a new PHEV. If you are driving less than 20 miles each day both the EV and the PHEV will run on electricity. But the smaller battery in the PHEV means it will have fewer lifetime emissions. Of course that calculation depends on how many gallons of gas the PHEV uses during its lifetime.
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I think the explanation is that these statistics include hybrids, which are an easier purchase decision (at least for for buyers who have good money). The battery EVs is what is more interesting to follow, because it implies a disruptive choice. The data I read today for EU is that the battery EVs are down in sales year to year, it's the hybrids that increased a lot and are pulling the overall numbers up.
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Also, only looking at cars doesn't take into account the numbers of people who are leaving their cars at home & getting around on bikes, electric power-assisted bikes, & electric scooters. Where I am, they're everywhere. A lot of people use them to get to work. Additionally, the hybrid buses here are gett
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"Also, only looking at cars doesn't take into account the numbers of people who are leaving their cars at home & getting around on bikes, electric power-assisted bikes, & electric scooters. Where I am, they're everywhere. A lot of people use them to get to work."
Do they not have rain or snow over there?
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Do they not have rain or snow over there?
America is special because of [checks notes] weather!
Finland, it may surprise you, does get snow. And yet somehow people still travel by bike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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The data I read today for EU is that the battery EVs are down in sales year to year
Share the data? The data I read just now is that EU BEV sales are flat year on year, and that despite a major market like Germany removing subsidies causing that two countries to experience a significant downturn (implying that EV BEV sales are growing elsewhere in Europe). In fact if Germany's -18% (to June) is excluded you have 5% growth in the EU, and it's always worth looking at both total figures as well as excluding the ones related to changes in subsidies as that is a more accurate indicator of under
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https://www.acea.auto/press-re... [acea.auto]
"European auto industry calls for urgent action as demand for EVs declines
Brussels, 19 September 2024 – A continuous trend of shrinking market share for battery electric cars in the EU sends an extremely worrying signal to industry and policymakers."
* "Year-to-date EU battery-electric sales volumes have dropped 8,4% in an already shrinking market"
* "Year-to-date EU battery-electric market share has dropped from 13.9% last year to 12.6% this year"
* "Only 16% of European
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But Tesla has stayed strong because its products actually are serious and do r
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That's not correct. These data include PHEV (plug-in hybrids), but not what are now called "mild-hybrids" like the original Prius.
That's not correct. The original Prius is a FULL HYBRID. A Mild Hybrid is a hybrid with a MUCH smaller battery. The motor/generator is tacked on (it's mounted where you would have an alternator) and it's only enough to start the engine and get the vehicle moving before the engine start-stop restarts the ICE and takes over. This offers 50-80% of the benefit of a full hybrid with far less weight and cost.
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That "barely 10%" improvement may be true for older mild hybrids with ICE engines that run in the Otto cycle, but full hybrids that run on the Atkinson cycle get something more like 30% better mileage. The Atkinson cycle also reduces wear on the engine and emission components. So despite the added complexities of having two different kinds of motors, when you calculate the TCO it's actually cheaper to run a hybrid than an equivalent ICE car.
Despite whatever a priori misgivings I may have had about a hybri
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That and, for me...none of them are in a configuration of a 2-seater sports car....
ICE still seems to be pretty much the only ones that make fun cars like this available....
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I consider myself a pure pragmatist when it comes to cars -- they're just a way to get from A to B for me. But even I was shocked by how incredibly dull the Prius was the first time I drove one. But it's easy to get used to that, then the you drive it year after year, and the only thing to break the monotony is a occasional complaint from the tire pressure sensor.
I think there's a place for cars that are really practical but no fun at all, but also for cars that are really fun but not very practical. Wha
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I've never in my whole life....owned anything but 2-seater sports cars...manual transmission.
Yes, they are my daily cars...if I needed to haul something I'd just borrow a friend's truck or switch keys for the day, etc.
But to me...my car is NOT just A->B.
Every time I get into my car, I feel a thrill and every trip is an adventure for me...even just to the grocery store and back.
So, right now,
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in exchange for a load of complex tech to go wrong under the hood. This seams logical at first glance but the numbers don't actually bare this out, at least in the case of something like Prius reliability ratings vs those of Tesla. The former is at the very top of all reliability ratings even with all it's supposed over-complexity, while Tesla sits at the very bottom with all the old German ICE makers.
Until you can find me the 25-year old Prius community still going strong on original hardware, I was more referring to the additional complexity added to an ICE engine with hybrid technology, with often laughable gains. 1-3MPG better than standard models? Why even bother with hybrid complexity unless your motivation is after market profit through maintenance? That’s still a polluting tailpipe on a hybrid. And the Prius represents part of the tiny fraction of hybrids that at least try and make hybr
Re: EV market (Score:4, Informative)
Thats just not true. I was a company using Prius and Yaris (non hybrid Prius) for company fleet and mpg were 50 and 35 respectively.
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Thats just not true. I was a company using Prius and Yaris (non hybrid Prius) for company fleet and mpg were 50 and 35 respectively.
This is now the third time I will clarify the Prius and a handful of other models, attempt to make hybrids actually viable and worth it. But when I look at the other 90% of models that give laughable advertised gains of a few MPG better, the complexity and cost of repair isn’t worth it. Which is usually determined by the battery life and replacement cost.
Just like the joke that is long-term EV ownership. A Hyundai owner was quoted $61K for a battery replacement. On a car that cost $60K new. I can
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This is the current marketing push. Since EV sales are down, they now include hybrids in the numbers. Hybrids are way up.
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In the US, which they still are....plug in hybrids have seen a bump....but pure EVs are still a hard sell in the US.
Only sluggish in US (Score:2)
Detroit tried to make fatass SUEV's, which is not electric's forte. Detroit swore off sedans roughly a decade ago, and now are regretting it. Maybe someday they'll get big SUEV's right, but may fall behind the EV learning curve before that.
Big cars gotta die. Tax them heavily unless there's a legitimate need. Call it the phallic tax.