Microsoft's Controversial 'Recall' Feature is Already Experiencing Some Issues (cnbc.com) 73
Microsoft's controversial "Recall" feature (in a public preview of Windows 11) already has some known issues, Microsoft admitted Friday. For example:
- Recall can be enabled or disabled from "Turn Windows features on or off". We are caching the Recall binaries on disk while we test add/remove. In a future update we will completely remove the binaries.
- You must have Secure Boot enabled for Recall to save snapshots.
- Some users experience a delay before snapshots first appear in the timeline while using their device. If snapshots do not appear after 5 minutes, reboot your device. If saving snapshots is enabled, but you see snapshots are no longer being saved, reboot your device.
- Clicking links within Recall to submit feedback may experience a delay in loading the Feedback Hub application. Be patient and it will display.
CNBC adds that according to Microsoft Recall "won't work with some accessibility programs, and if you specify that Recall shouldn't save content from a given website, it might get captured anyway while using the built-in Edge browser..." But those aren't the only issues CNBC noticed: - While you might expect that your computer will be recording every last thing you look at once you've turned on Recall, it can go several minutes between making snapshots, leaving gaps in the timeline.
- Recall allows you to prevent screenshots from being made when you're accessing specific apps. But a few apps installed on my Surface Pro are not shown on that list.
- When you enter a search string to find words, results might be incomplete or incorrect. Recall clearly had two screen images that mention "Yankees," but when I typed that into the search box, only one of them came up as a text match. I typed in my last name, which appeared in eight images, but Recall produced just two text matches.
- Recall made a screenshot while I was scrolling through posts on social network BlueSky, and one contains a photo of a New York street scene. You can see a stoplight, a smokestack and street signs. I typed each of those into the search box, but Recall came up with no results...
- The search function is fast, but flipping through snapshots in Recall is not. It can take a couple of seconds to load screenshots as you swipe between them.
- Recall can be enabled or disabled from "Turn Windows features on or off". We are caching the Recall binaries on disk while we test add/remove. In a future update we will completely remove the binaries.
- You must have Secure Boot enabled for Recall to save snapshots.
- Some users experience a delay before snapshots first appear in the timeline while using their device. If snapshots do not appear after 5 minutes, reboot your device. If saving snapshots is enabled, but you see snapshots are no longer being saved, reboot your device.
- Clicking links within Recall to submit feedback may experience a delay in loading the Feedback Hub application. Be patient and it will display.
CNBC adds that according to Microsoft Recall "won't work with some accessibility programs, and if you specify that Recall shouldn't save content from a given website, it might get captured anyway while using the built-in Edge browser..." But those aren't the only issues CNBC noticed: - While you might expect that your computer will be recording every last thing you look at once you've turned on Recall, it can go several minutes between making snapshots, leaving gaps in the timeline.
- Recall allows you to prevent screenshots from being made when you're accessing specific apps. But a few apps installed on my Surface Pro are not shown on that list.
- When you enter a search string to find words, results might be incomplete or incorrect. Recall clearly had two screen images that mention "Yankees," but when I typed that into the search box, only one of them came up as a text match. I typed in my last name, which appeared in eight images, but Recall produced just two text matches.
- Recall made a screenshot while I was scrolling through posts on social network BlueSky, and one contains a photo of a New York street scene. You can see a stoplight, a smokestack and street signs. I typed each of those into the search box, but Recall came up with no results...
- The search function is fast, but flipping through snapshots in Recall is not. It can take a couple of seconds to load screenshots as you swipe between them.
One word (Score:5, Insightful)
Yuck
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Useless garbage
Or if you prefer three words:
Waste of time
Re: One word (Score:2)
Re:One word (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me guess: This will be turned ON by default.
And will nag you if you try to turn it off.
Re:One word (Score:4, Informative)
Not in the EU. If MS turns it on by default, that will actually be a crime in many member states and illegal in all of them.
Re: (Score:2)
And will nag you if you try to turn it off.
And the next Windows security update will silently turn it back on, for your safety.
Goto Linux (Score:3)
Recall Recall.
Total Recall.
Goto Linux
It doesnt even work (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
>> solution is to 'reboot' after 5 mins?
That has been the solution to every M.S. problem since day 1
Who wants this? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the, "solving problems I don't have" department, and forwarded to the "just because we doesn't mean we should" department, who the hell actually wants this feature? My first reaction was, "no", and that was before taking a second to think about all the security related BS it implies. The amount of money and time MS is wasting on this must be staggering.
Re:Who wants this? (Score:4, Informative)
The amount of money and time MS is wasting on this must be staggering.
Yet another example of what happens when a company has too much money, too many people and completely incompetent management.
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The amount of money and time MS is wasting on this must be staggering.
Yet another example of what happens when a company has too much money, too many people and completely incompetent management.
Once an organization (any organization) grows sufficiently large bureaucracy, incompetence and stupidity tend to take over.
It's not for you. It's for training AI models. (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously, to put as many people as possible out of work, and also ready made LEO fodder they can double dip from easily.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably just trying again to train some AIs.
In the western world they long term probably won't get away with that.
But there are other countries that use windows boxes.
Re:Who wants this? (Score:4, Insightful)
MS is desperate to have some real "AI" application. As there are none, they come up with crap like this.
Re: (Score:3)
From the, "solving problems I don't have" department, and forwarded to the "just because we doesn't mean we should" department, who the hell actually wants this feature? My first reaction was, "no", and that was before taking a second to think about all the security related BS it implies. The amount of money and time MS is wasting on this must be staggering.
While the entire quote is worthwhile, I wanted to highlight the portion that I highlighted with bold: There is an infinite amount of money available to do things that someone wants done; however, there is no money available for maintenance. It is equivalent to a disease. We will all fail from lack of maintenance, not just Microsoft, but the USA as a whole.
Re: (Score:2)
It's also a case of the "sunk cost fallacy" - "but, but, but we've already spent $X developing this. We can't just throw that money away!".
Yes, you spent $X. Yes, you actually CAN just throw it away. And yes, you SHOULD just throw it away.
So.... (Score:3)
What customers actually want this feature? I'm curious. All I've heard is negative feedback about this thing. Did anyone actually ask for it?
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
What customers actually want this feature? I'm curious. All I've heard is negative feedback about this thing. Did anyone actually ask for it?
I imagine Microsoft wants this more than anyone else. I imagine it could be used to provide MS with universal telemetry for everything a user does on a system even in third-party apps w/o any MS telemetry built in. Sure MS doesn't say they will use it for this *now*, but ... So, good for them, not for us... /super-cynical
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
What customers actually want this feature? I'm curious. All I've heard is negative feedback about this thing. Did anyone actually ask for it?
I imagine Microsoft wants this more than anyone else. I imagine it could be used to provide MS with universal telemetry for everything a user does on a system even in third-party apps w/o any MS telemetry built in.
But, how exactly is all this telemetry actually beneficial to Microsoft? I guarantee NOBODY inside Microsoft can explain, in detail, exactly what benefit is gained other than some extremely vague hand-waving and "sell more advertising".
It is literally nothing more than the old meme from years ago:
1. Collect massive amounts of data
2. ?????
3. Profit!!
Re: (Score:2)
Who said MS management was rational? There is ample evidence that it is not.
Re: (Score:2)
For getting money, M.S. is actually very rational.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it rational to only focus on money when you are actually selling a product? I think not.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it rational to only focus on money when you are actually selling a product? I think not.
MS is a for-profit organization. Its goal is to maximize profits for its shareholders. I.e. to make money - NOT to sell a product: selling a product is a way to make money, but by no means the only one.
Re: (Score:2)
here, they sell the user which is the product.
Re: (Score:2)
Soo, strategic survival is not a factor? That would explain a lot. Because MS has come close to strategic death already and they will die if they continue like this.
Re: (Score:2)
Massive amounts of data is the new gold, these days.
The AI is starving for data.
Re: (Score:2)
But, how exactly is all this telemetry actually beneficial to Microsoft?
The AI that you will be running will analyze the details of your computer usage and find exactly how best to allow Microsoft to manipulate you. Microsoft will be the gateway to your mental domination. Everyone will be paying Microsoft to control you to buy their products or vote for their candidate. It is really quite breathtaking the amount of control they seek to deliver.
They will fail; however, the process of their failure will be extremely painful for everyone.
Re: (Score:2)
Leaving aside the question of *why* they want this, the more fundamental question for your conspiracy theory is *how* they go about it. Why bother developing a massive user tool, they already have extensive telemetry services in windows and already collect huge amounts of data.
There's literally no reason to create Recall for telemetry. It's like buying a second car to drive to the supermarket because you don't want to use your first car.
A good conspiracy theory has something in it for the conspirator and ne
Re: (Score:2)
Sure MS doesn't say they will use it for this *now*, but ... So, good for them, not for us... /super-cynical
That is what the AI running on your computer is for: To analyze and make decisions about your behavior.
No fucking way am I participating. In no way, shape, or form, will I participate in this. I will not be paying for my own noose.
Re: (Score:2)
>What customers actually want this feature?
The FBI, CIA...
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't say "want" as such. Could find a use for. Maybe. More than once or twice a week I'll remember something vaguely enough that trying to find it is nearly impossible. A barely remembered conversation in an IM window or a website that had useful information about a topic that I didn't know was going to be useful later on. If I had something that was transcribing the text content of my whole screen organised by time/date and some sort of LLM driven "context" I could see myself getting some use out of
Re:So.... (Score:4, Insightful)
More than once or twice a week I'll remember something vaguely enough that trying to find it is nearly impossible.
This seems to be the one use case people mention, and also what Recall markets itself for.
If I had something that was transcribing the text content of my whole screen organised by time/date and some sort of LLM driven "context" I could see myself getting some use out of it.
This is the part that breaks my brain. This is nearly the worst possible implementation if that's the goal. TFS even notes the delays between screenshots as an issue. That quick chat in an IM window? May not get screenshot at all and, if it did, will likely have missed your reply just before you closed that window.
All IM clients have some form of history (even if optional).
All email clients have drafts, sent, and all the incoming data.
All browsers have history and cache of all files downloaded (up to personally set limits).
Your office suite saves files to the filesystem, and utilities can likely read their contents for indexing.
If you add a keylogger, you'd also have all possible inputs you have made (onscreen keyboard via mouse excluded, but that could be fashioned to log as well).
Slap a search interface over all that data and you can do recall like stuff and get the actual files or contextual text content, along with timestamps and all that stuff as well. This has been done before to various degrees.
FWIW, if anyone sees that and thinks, "but my browser cache gets SOOO big that I regularly have to purge it, so won't this get even bigger?" Yes. And guess how much bigger it would be to save full screen images of the text, rather than just the text files?
Trying to do anywhere near as good a job as what we already have, but doing it via periodic screenshots that are then AI parsed for text and image info... a fools errand. It's clearly not a good way to go about that goal. So what does it add? ... but this COULD be added to the other system by adding an image analysis to the cache files and filesystem to index that metadata.
* screenshots, for whatever that's worth. You could see what else you had open at that time... assuming you could find a suitable screenshot.
* image analysis, so you can ask for "firetruck" and get screenshots that include images of firetrucks.
* lazy data collection - no need to retrofit anything, or know anything about the other apps on the system, or look at any structures of any kind. Just hole hog screenshot and brute force it.
I'm must be overlooking something huge. Augmenting the existing data with periodic screenshots may have been a small but nice bonus, but using only the screenshots? Where's the logic in that?
Re: (Score:2)
They should use a small language model and do it locally.
Using a large language model and sending it off seems like a bad idea.
Re: (Score:2)
What customers actually want this feature? I'm curious.
Microsoft itself. Windows is moving towards making its users the product, and is almost there.
Re: (Score:2)
Mostly spyware vendors, as it means they can reduce their code size and thus costs.
What is the purpose? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Why would there be a need for another purpose?
Re: (Score:2)
Spyware is big business, just as browsers once were.
Microsoft is doing to spyware vendors what it did to browser vendors when they integrated Internet Explorer.
Government sponsorship of data theft is worth a lot of money, so if Microsoft can out-compete hacking groups like North Korea's Lazarus team with a rival integrated product, why would governments buy anything else?
Recall Recall.... (Score:2)
Recall Recall....
Recall Recall....
It will end up like Cortana (Score:2)
To a consumer, Recall will be perceived to be crap if it: 1) Can't recognise text and objects in a captured snapshot to at the standard of Apple/Google Photos;
2) Can't be navigated anywhere near as quickly as the aforementioned tools for any reason;
3) Doesn't index or
Does Windows work without internet access? (Score:2)
Re: Does Windows work without internet access? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. I used it today for about five minutes without internet, and could use One Note.
I was thinking more long term, like permanently. Sure, you would not get patches, but your risk profile would be very limited. Does Windows in a VM with no network act and work normally long term or does it complain?
Re: Does Windows work without internet access? (Score:2)
Yes, I run it in VM with no network access and it runs fine. The only nagging happens when 1) it complains about not having the latest virus definitions, and 2) it detects upgrades that it wants to install when network access has briefly been enabled.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have a fully registered network-isolated win10 VM. Occasionally it asks me to register by the background text you cannot remove. Other than that, no negative effects after about one year.
Would Satya Nadella have this enabled? (Score:2)
Or does he have some special privilege to completely disable such features?
Or is he just using a Mac?
This feature is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen.
Re: (Score:2)
He's C Suite. He's probably using a mac lol. (And he wouldn't be the first , both him and Ballmer have been seen in public using macs and macos)
Not a chance in hell (Score:2)
If there is anything that would finally force me to give up Windows, this will be
the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.
Giving up Windows means giving up a lot of software I use that is Windows only
and has either a poor Linux replacement, or none at all.
But this " spy on everything you do " bullshit will finally force me to make that
decision.
Re: (Score:2)
I read the Windows license agreement, and that caused me to decline to have, use, or install MSWindows around 1998. Linux didn't have a decent word processor yet, but I switched anyway. It took awhile to convince my wife, so we first switched to Macs, but after awhile I was able to convince her that that license agreement was also to be avoided.
Re: (Score:2)
Glorious! (Score:2)
How awesome is it that Windows users have the privilege of beta testing this wonderful new feature? Isn't it a marvelous world where users get to be unpaid beta testers for a feature which none of them asked for and most don't want? Kudos to Microsoft for making sure that said feature also renders their already flaky OS even more unreliable and less responsive. Golly gee, it's a great time to be alive!
Linux (Score:1, Redundant)
This is just one more reason to use Linux
Complete quote (Score:3)
"Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better."
Re: (Score:2)
250AD. Roman plebs had bread and circuses, and its life had never been better. And the Empire was rapidly collapsing.
As expected (Score:2)
The right way to introduce a new, experimental feature is through something like the Windows Insider program where curious people volunteer to be beta testers.
The wrong way is to enable it by default and foist it on unprepared and clueless users
Am I the only one (Score:2)
...who still wonders about storage space?
I know storage is cheap, but I don't want my hd filled with 18 million screenshots of my desktop (aside from a host of other reasons I find this repellent).
Re: (Score:1)
You noob!
They are on Microsoft OneDrive!
Why snapshots? (Score:1, Interesting)
Why does it need to keep snapshots at all?? Can't it just extract as much data as possible as it runs, then save that for later instead of screenshots?
Only response that makes sense. (Score:2)
Secure Boot? (Score:2)
The whole point of Recall is to send that data to M$, the Secure Boot requirement is so that M$ knows you can't prevent them from harvesting the data, and TPM 2.0 is so M$ can sell the data as "authentic" to advertisers and adversaries.
lol (Score:1)
The Solution (Score:2)
The solution to Windows turning into a marketing device and personal information vacuum: Linux Desktop.
Let the flame wars commence. My personal preference is Linux Mint. I've been using it on my desktop workstation and my laptop for the last 6 years with zero complaints. I have Windows VMs (VMWare and KVM) that I use for software development, but when one of them goes stupid thanks to Windows updates or general Windows OS stupidity, I just roll it back to the last weekly snapshot. But all my personal co