EU Signs $1 Billion Deal For Sovereign Satellite Constellation To Rival Starlink (techcrunch.com) 109
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The European Union is forging ahead with plans for a constellation of internet satellites to rival Elon Musk-owned Starlink, after signing a $11.1 billion deal to launch nearly 300 satellites into low- and medium-Earth orbits by 2030. The bloc wants the space tech to boost its digital sovereignty by providing secure comms to governments.
First announced in 2022, Iris^2 (Infrastructure for Resilience, Interconnectivity and Security by Satellite) is a public-private partnership whose initial cost estimate (6 billion euros) leapt 76% through a fraught negotiation process. In the end, the program will be 61% funded from the public purse; an industry consortium called SpaceRise, selected in October, is making up the difference. This grouping includes French satellite giant Eutelsat, which merged with European rival OneWeb back in 2022.
First announced in 2022, Iris^2 (Infrastructure for Resilience, Interconnectivity and Security by Satellite) is a public-private partnership whose initial cost estimate (6 billion euros) leapt 76% through a fraught negotiation process. In the end, the program will be 61% funded from the public purse; an industry consortium called SpaceRise, selected in October, is making up the difference. This grouping includes French satellite giant Eutelsat, which merged with European rival OneWeb back in 2022.
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Elon didn't invent Tesla, he bought in as a shareholder.
I'd argue that Mark Cuban is doing far more for the everyday person with his cheap prescription pharmacy. https://www.costplusdrugs.com/ [costplusdrugs.com]
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Yes, of course, and Mark Cuban is a cretin, a VC scumbag and a misogynist who runs a real piece of shit operation at the Dallas Mavericks. And yes, Cuban is a saint compared to Musk. It's like celebrating Mitt Romney. Sure he's among the most decent Republicans, don't forget he got his money as a corporate raider. He is a despicable human being, yet he's one of the "good guys" by today's standards.
Also, Musk has taken from others literally everything he has. He did it before Tesla, he did it at Tesla,
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I wouldn't trust anyone who doesnt. Keep the shitty arguments to yourselves, now. For a billionaire far in excess of wealth needed to live life hedonistically, Elon (fuck you for your derogatory slight, you piece of shit), spends his money advancing field after field to the point where the most powerful governments cant possibly even keep up. Thanks to Elon, we have landable rockets. We have an EV future. We have broadband everywhere on earth. None of that would have been possible had he not pushed the envelope. How can we tell? His rivals who have access to the same talent pool are no where near him. He is a phenom. So when it comes to trust, why not? He is leading his life in pursuits of new levels of achievement for humanity, unlike say the Waltons who are 3 generations away from actually creating anything useful. Some may not like his politics. I'd ask of them: What have you done in your life to prove your ability to assess the political environment in excess of Elon's? Yeah, fuck you. I'll trust Elon.
I would simply ask why it has to be all or nothing. Seriously, why so black and white. Elon pushes the envelope in certain directions because he had a vision, and he happens to have put together the right series of events to put himself in a position to make that vision come to fruition. That I can admire. He wants humans multiplanetary, and he's worked toward it. He wants to get us off fossil fuels, and he's worked toward it. He wants to create a truly global communications network available to anyone, and
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He's done bad things
Such as?
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He's done bad things
Such as?
For a start? Promoting policies that are fairly blatantly pro-corporate at the expense of the common taxpayer. Even going so far as to tell the country as a whole that they need to suffer. And however you view Trump, hitching himself so firmly to *ANY* political figure, even if they weren't such a controversial one, seems a negative hit on Musk. I know why he did it, I just don't think it's going to turn out as good for him as he seems to think. Trump's love affairs with any public figures, even public figu
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"What have you done in your life to prove your ability to assess the political environment in excess of Elon's? Yeah, fuck you. I'll trust Elon."
I haven't raped or defrauded anyone nor accused a hero who save the lives of children of being a pedophile, that's makes me better than your Leon.
And "assessing the political environment" is the standard? Who the fuck are you?
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:1)
Which talking points, exactly?
Also, learn to use a search engine.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/c... [forbes.com]
Moron.
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:1)
Wait, so not only do have no idea what the word "and" means, but it has never occurred to you that the president's admin works at his direction?
Also, I asked you to be specific about which talking points you're referring to. Put up or shut up already.
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It was said that reusable rockets would never work. Until Elon.
Who was stupid enough to make the bold claim that reusable launch vehicles would NEVER work?
And SpaceX holds all of the key patents.
You can't patent the idea of a reusable launch vehicles, just different methods of doing it. Unless you are telling us that the exact way SpaceX does it is the only possible way of implementing reusable launch vehicles, SpaceX will eventually get competition and no set of patents can stop it. The first and fiercest competitor will be Chinese.
.... It's kind of crazy the way progressives adore Apple and let them get away with anything ...
What exactly do Apple and progressives have to do with any of this? Are the
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:1)
You can't patent the idea of a reusable launch vehicles, just different methods of doing it.
Because "key patents" clearly means the entire fucking concept, right?
Unless you are telling us that the exact way SpaceX does it is the only possible way of implementing reusable launch vehicles,
They could always do things the way NASA did with the space shuttle. But that wasn't exactly economical, was it? But remember, you're the idiot who thinks key patents means there same thing as the concept itself.
SpaceX will eventually get competition and no set of patents can stop it. The first and fiercest competitor will be Chinese.
China doesn't care about patents, but more importantly, the EU isn't China.
What exactly do Apple and progressives have to do with any of this? Are they plotting to launch satellite constellations too?
I'm pointing out both the absurdity and the hypocrisy in the way you guys hate one guy who hasn't done a single thing to wrong you at all, and is in fact r
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't patent the idea of a reusable launch vehicles, just different methods of doing it.
Because "key patents" clearly means the entire fucking concept, right?
Unless you are telling us that the exact way SpaceX does it is the only possible way of implementing reusable launch vehicles,
They could always do things the way NASA did with the space shuttle. But that wasn't exactly economical, was it? But remember, you're the idiot who thinks key patents means there same thing as the concept itself.
Just explain to us what things it was that SpaceX patented which make it physically impossible for anybody else to implement a reusable launch vehicle without violating SpaceX's patents.
SpaceX will eventually get competition and no set of patents can stop it. The first and fiercest competitor will be Chinese.
China doesn't care about patents, but more importantly, the EU isn't China.
Sure, because it couldn't possibly be that there are more ways of building a reusable launch vehicle than the one you claim SpaceX has supposedly patented thus making competing with them impossible unless you are China that doesn't give a shit about patents.
What exactly do Apple and progressives have to do with any of this? Are they plotting to launch satellite constellations too?
I'm pointing out both the absurdity and the hypocrisy in the way you guys hate one guy who hasn't done a single thing to wrong you at all, and is in fact responsible for this technology's existence to begin with, and without whom the EU wouldn't even be contemplating this idea right now. Yet you guys love Apple even though they're the single biggest purveyor and promotor of e-waste, planned obsolescence, breaking interoperability, and hostile compliance. But the reason you hate Elon is because...what? What specifically has he done other than you just hate his politics? The way you guys think is just bonkers.
I'm not a fan of Elon's politics. In particular I'm really opposed to his stance on Ukraine, among other things. But unlike you guys, I'm not going around hating on everything he touches for it, and then loving people like Tim Cook just for his politics, even though he happily shits on your rights as consumers. Again, bonkers.
No you are dragging Apple and progressives into a discussion about reusable launch vehicles and satellite collections, for no logical reason because you are possessed by an irrational and unhealthy obsession with them, not because they are in any way shape or form relevant to the discussion.
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:1)
Just explain to us what things it was that SpaceX patented which make it physically impossible for anybody else to implement a reusable launch vehicle without violating SpaceX's patents.
Never said it would be physically impossible. In fact, there's nothing stopping the EU from setting up such a constellation right now without doing anything with SpaceX. But there's a wrinkle in that idea that still hasn't occurred to you.
Sure, because it couldn't possibly be that there are more ways of building a reusable launch vehicle than the one you claim SpaceX has supposedly patented thus making competing with them impossible unless you are China that doesn't give a shit about patents.
This is where your understanding is incredibly broken. It isn't just one patent. Or even a hundred of them. Can you physically do it without them? More than likely. But what's the whole point of this to begin with? Here's a hint: Shit that you've consistently missed.
No you are dragging Apple and progressives into a discussion about reusable launch vehicles and satellite collections, for no logical reason because you are possessed by an irrational and unhealthy obsession with them, not because they are in any way shape or form relevant to the discussion.
The po
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Just explain to us what things it was that SpaceX patented which make it physically impossible for anybody else to implement a reusable launch vehicle without violating SpaceX's patents.
Never said it would be physically impossible. In fact, there's nothing stopping the EU from setting up such a constellation right now without doing anything with SpaceX. But there's a wrinkle in that idea that still hasn't occurred to you.
Sure, because it couldn't possibly be that there are more ways of building a reusable launch vehicle than the one you claim SpaceX has supposedly patented thus making competing with them impossible unless you are China that doesn't give a shit about patents.
This is where your understanding is incredibly broken. It isn't just one patent. Or even a hundred of them. Can you physically do it without them? More than likely. But what's the whole point of this to begin with? Here's a hint: Shit that you've consistently missed.
No you are dragging Apple and progressives into a discussion about reusable launch vehicles and satellite collections, for no logical reason because you are possessed by an irrational and unhealthy obsession with them, not because they are in any way shape or form relevant to the discussion.
The post I replied to, what did it say again? And what did the one it was in response to say again? And which part of it did you miss? You've been doing a lot of that so far.
Actually, you said SpaceX "holds all the key patents" on reusable launch vehicles which kinda makes it hard to build one unless you are China and don't give a shit about SpaceX's 'key patents'. Also, you never told us who was stupid enough to say that: "... reusable rockets would never work". and, finally, you never adequately explained just exactly what the hell Apple and progressives have to do with reusable launch vehicles and satellite constellations.
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Actually, you said SpaceX "holds all the key patents" on reusable launch vehicles which kinda makes it hard to build one
Are you that fucking dense? Do you not understand the difference between 'physically possible' and 'economically viable'? Again, I'm going to remind you, NASA reused the Space Shuttle boosters. And it wasn't at all economical. They said it would be, but it never was. And do you have any idea what the whole point of reusable rockets is? Any idea at all? Sure, you can physically land a rocket, but why would you spend all of the necessary time and money to do so?
Also, you never told us who was stupid enough to say that: "... reusable rockets would never work"
You know what's funny? People who did either edi
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Just explain to us what things it was that SpaceX patented which make it physically impossible for anybody else to implement a reusable launch vehicle without violating SpaceX's patents.
Never said it would be physically impossible. In fact, there's nothing stopping the EU from setting up such a constellation right now without doing anything with SpaceX.
So what did you mean by "key" when you said "SpaceX holds all of the key patents". What is key about them? If they can be avoided by doing things a different way, surely they're not key patents.
Re: More sattelites in space (Score:5, Insightful)
"It was said that reusable rockets would never work. Until Elon. And SpaceX holds all of the key patents."
Citation please.
"It was said that phased array antennas could never be affordably produced at scale. Until Elon. And SpaceX holds all of the key patents."
Citation please.
I studied phased array antennas as an undergraduate in the 80's. There were commercialized then. AWACS implemented a phased array antenna. I don't know who you're talking to that "said" that, but I suspect he has DogeCoin to sell you.
Oh, and I'm sure the Europeans care about "holding" those key US patents!
"It's kind of crazy the way progressives adore Apple and let them get away with anything (see Obama giving Apple a free pass to infringe on Samsung's patents, and then denying Samsung the same thing.) If Elon was like Tim Cook, SpaceX would be the only company doing this for the next two decades, suing (and very likely winning) any competitors out of existence. And that includes the EU, even though it's technically a government, it's still bound by hundreds of treaties covering this stuff."
Yep, and there's the right-wing conspiracy theories. I'm sure George Soros is in there somewhere. Aren't jewish space lasers prior art?
"And you trust Tim Cook but you have a problem trusting Elon even though he's never really done anything to break anybody's trust."
Not sure who this "you" is, but it sure seems like your mean the enemy. But who "trusts" Tim Cook with what? As for Leon Musk, he commits crimes and fraud on the daily, only a fool would trust him with anything and it's been that way for a decade now. Never forget the pedo accusations ever.
"Really his only crime is saying shit that you don't like. "
And defrauding investors, and manipulating the stock market, and sexual harassment, and wrongful termination, and sexual exposure, and public indecency, and obstruction of justice, and racketeering, and racism, and gender discrimination, and defamation, and drug abuse, and false advertising. And that's just the results from one website!
Come on, what kind of moron are you?
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"It was said that reusable rockets would never work. Until Elon. And SpaceX holds all of the key patents."
Citation please.
Already provided them. Enjoy.
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Citation please.
I studied phased array antennas as an undergraduate in the 80's. There were commercialized then. AWACS implemented a phased array antenna. I don't know who you're talking to that "said" that, but I suspect he has DogeCoin to sell you.
And despite that education you still don't know the difference between 'commercialized' and 'affordable', or even the foggiest idea how much AWACS costs and why it isn't even comparable to what you find in a $500 starlink antenna.
Yep, and there's the right-wing conspiracy theories.
What part of it is the conspiracy?
As for Leon Musk, he commits crimes and fraud on the daily, only a fool would trust him with anything and it's been that way for a decade now. Never forget the pedo accusations ever.
And who brought that lawsuit? And who won that lawsuit?
And defrauding investors
If he legitimately defrauded investors he wouldn't be the CEO of anything right now.
and manipulating the stock market
The entity he "harmed", Citadel, were themselv
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Not sure who this "you" is, but it sure seems like your mean the enemy. But who "trusts" Tim Cook with what? As for Leon Musk, he commits crimes and fraud on the daily, only a fool would trust him with anything and it's been that way for a decade now. Never forget the pedo accusations ever.
If it's any consolation I trust Tim Cook about as far as I trust Elon Musk... which is to say about half as far as I could throw Rupert Murdoch... In fact between the three, I'm not sure which one I distrust more.
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I studied phased array antennas as an undergraduate in the 80's. There were commercialized then. AWACS implemented a phased array antenna.
As did the F14 Tomcat.
But Reality was never important to anyone with a 'purpose'. Imagination and fantasy work fine for them (until it doesn't).
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It was said that reusable rockets would never work. Until Elon. And SpaceX holds all of the key patents.
It was said that phased array antennas could never be affordably produced at scale. Until Elon. And SpaceX holds all of the key patents.
This is why I just stuck with criticizing Starlink for having limited bandwidth and being more expensive than terrestrial broadband, rendering it not much of a competitor in places where there's other broadband options. Wouldn't ya know, that's still true! My father has Starlink because he lives up in the mountains of NC. It's slightly worse than Spectrum that I pay 1/3 the price for here in central FL, but for him it's way better than the 1 Mbps DSL which was previously his only other option.
Musk practi
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Musk practically hyped up Starlink like it was gonna put Comcast out of business, rather than what it really is - marginally tolerable broadband for folks who live in the boonies, and for wealthy(ish) folks to install on their yachts and RVs. Although for the later unless you really travel off the beaten path, you might just be fine with cellular broadband.
Fuck man, the level of shit information on Slashdot is getting tiresome. No, he didn't say he was gonna put comcast out of business. The level of discord here is not "nerdy" at all, since almost all modded up posts are now just blatantly wrong.
Citation: https://youtu.be/MratcC0AZy8 [youtu.be]
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The hype over Starlink goes back a lot further than some Joe Rogan show from two years ago. By 2020, Musk had already come clean that Starlink was no threat to established terrestrial broadband providers. [lightreading.com] Prior to that though, Musk let speculation run rampant and even kind of encouraged it. [youtube.com]
In SpaceX's own words: SpaceX’s Starlink is a next-generation satellite network capable of connecting the globe, especially reaching those who are not yet connected, with reliable and affordable broadband interne
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I see plenty of examples of you saying other people have done this, but where did Elon?
Also, SpaceX is nowhere close to being finished with Starlink. And I'm not talking about more birds. This party is just getting started.
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even though he's never really done anything to break anybody's trust
Grow a backbone. No one thinks you're idol worship delusion is in any way cool. You've just said a serial liar has done nothing to break anyone's trust. Anyone's? Really?
What about the Tesla Model 3 owners whose car didn't triple in value like Elon said it would?
Yeah why would it anyway, not now that they aren't all going to be fully autonomous self driving robotaxis, like Elon said they would.
But it could be worse, at least they aren't the Tesla investors strung along for years as the company promises to r
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Grow a backbone. No one thinks you're idol worship delusion is in any way cool.
The amount of bullshit about Elon found on slashdot is insane. I mean you guys have literally claimed, repeatedly, that he's not an engineer, or some crap about how he has to be "kept away" from the "real engineers" at spacex, which isn't even remotely true. Yet every time I simply provide a correction, suddenly it's "idol worship" or that I'm a "leon lover" or some shit like that. It's not. I'm just speaking plainly and honestly. Perhaps you ought to try it for once in your life? The fact is, you guys have
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The real problem is, there are no companies in Europe capable of engineering a competitive constellation of satellites and more so, there are no European companies capable of mass producing, distributing and supporting high accuracy, high frequency phased antennae array ground equipment. There isn't a single reliable European consumer tech company anymore.
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Musk is sucking Putin's cock. What's the difference between the Trump administration, with Musk, and this "reborn USSR" you speak of?
Musk interfering with Ukraine military operations on Putin's request is the problem here.
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They'll need to pick between the USA and a reborn USSR
EU has always picked USA as their major ally. However, there are also significant differences in foreign policy, with US wars that the EU won't support, and EU wars the US won't support (or not as much as the EU wished for).
Also US politics oscillates between Europe-friendly and isolationist moments on short notice, with a former/new President routinely threatening to withdraw from their existing compromises with their friends. Even on this website isolationist feelings are expressed, and if one day the geo
Not with that scale (Score:2)
You're not rivaling Starlink with 300 satellites. Is that even enough to get more than one satellite over the EU at any given point in time?
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Re: Not with that scale (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes using primarily Starship for launches is the only thing that makes sense. Otherwise launching on Ariane rockets exclusively would mean a 50% at least more expensive system from a launch perspective just comparing to the Falcon 9 launched Starlink. It would need massive subsidies to become competitive even if they could catch up.
Once Starship starts launching many more satellites at once via Starship then Starlink is going to be much more economical and more capable.
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They need to keep Ariane going for national security reasons, so cost isn't the main factor.
By the time it gets going the cheapest option will probably be a Chinese company, but they won't want to use them either.
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> launching on Ariane rockets exclusively would mean a 50% at least more expensive
Yes, true, but saying "we want 'N' launches over the next 'M' years carrying 'P' Kgs of payload, and we want to buy from an EU company" sure would stimulate the EU space industry.
Even with all that, it probably will cost more pound-for-pound, but it'll give the EU some tactical independence where it feels it needs it. Some of the money can come from the military budget.
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You're right, it's only slashdot headlines that say so. The EU dimensioned their constellation for secure government services only, Starlink needs many more satellites to address the general population.
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When they say fiber, they're not talking about what was in your breakfast.
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Well if you must know, two different ISPs serve fiber to my house. I pay $65/month for a symmetric gig.
Paywalled it seems (Score:1)
Russia has launched now a new counter to Starlink to locate terminals (probably to target the locations) and possibly to disrupt so best to stand by and see if we need a solution that that before launching a new service I would think.
To be economical they will have to launch using Sp (Score:2)
To be economical they will have to launch via SpaceX rockets. Actually they could take advantage of SpaceX sunk R&D costs and launch much more economically on Starship and catch up to Starlink faster.
Developing a more economical launch capability would just set them back several years at least.
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Quite frankly unless another internet constellation comes up with their own launcher to keep costs low. I don't think ANYONE is going to catch up to Starlink. Starlink is already so far ahead in the game and Starlink can essentially launch their sats at or below cost.
Are we taking bets on whether or not the constellation being discussed in this thread will be the catalyst for an eventual EU antitrust case against SpaceX? "Competitor can't compete because of low launch costs, so SpaceX must pay $Billions to EU/EU Company."
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SpaceX is wholly inside of the US, what jurisdiction does the EU have over them that they could leverage? SpaceX might have a sales office or something but the engineering happens in CA, TX and the satellites are built and designed in WA.
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I'm pretty sure SpaceX would give up the tiny EU launch market to maintain total control over starlink. Even if it came to blows SpaceX would probably win in court. I doubt many people think that's a credible threat.
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Re: To be economical they will have to launch usin (Score:2)
I believe Musk has said that internally they will charge the Starlink business unit the same launch rates as they would Starlink competitors. Of course that is a balance sheet exercise when it is under one roof.
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Developing a more economical launch capability would just set them back several years at least.
To become independent of both Musk and the US that delay would be more than worth it. Come to think of it using more expensive launch options and become independent of both Musk and the US right now would also be worth it. I'm not seeing a downside here ....
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Geez, you get your panties all up in a wad just because the US has and will again ask you to pay your FULL share of NATO and spend what you are supposed to on your own defense budgets....?
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If you have the capacity to regularly launch to orbit or beyond, you have the capacity to follow in SpaceX's footsteps. It's a proven superior launch method, and NOT attempting to build your own version is stupid.
China will do it. Maybe India. Russia will try, but they don't really have the capacity any longer. The EU shouldn't hesitate.
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To be economical they will have to launch via SpaceX rockets.
"The constellation is expected to be launched by European rockets such as the upcoming Ariane 6." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Russia plans one by 2027 (Score:2)
Is the EU going to be around in 2030? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Uh...I'm sorry....but what?
I have no clue what you're on about here....
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I live here...have all my life (so far)....and can happily report that no such thing has been observed anywhere here in the US yet.
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You
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Still....more coherent and all around better than Biden and his vice president.
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EU is currently very strong, I think it is most likely to survive in the world. Some strengths
1. Strong currency, second in the world after dollar.
2. The system allows an individual country to leave the party. This means that country that is strongly against EU, is more likely to leave than try to break the whole system.
3. The benefits of the system are big for all countries that are in.
4. Allied with the country that has biggest army.
EU is by no means perfect, but I think it is very strong.
Re: Is the EU going to be around in 2030? (Score:2)
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Musk cut off service that was currently being provided because it threatened Russian navy vessels. It was on Putin's request. Musk speaks directly with Putin.
Who's spreading false information, comrade?
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Well, he didn't interfer with a war... He wanted the US government to contract Starlink for supporting attacks on Russian ports and ships in the Black Sea because he didn't want to do this just nilly-willy. Then the government did contract with Starlink.
Do you really want him to just support such things and basically act as if he's the government? You would hate him even more for that then I guess...
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That's right, who have you defrauded? Who have you raped? Who have stolen from? You've accomplished NOTHING!
Smart Goal (Score:2)
No one should want to rely on Musk for anything important at this point. He's too "mercurial".
It won't "rival" Starlink (Score:2)
It's just about European governments not depend on Starlink. Which is Ok I guess. But these 290 satellites won't be in competition to the 7000 Starlink satellites at all. It will be so expensive that you will only use this if you're mandated by law to use it. I guess it will be about 2000 Euros a month at least for end users.
And if it should be subsidized so much to be as cheap as Starlink is (and it won't) it will be totally oversubscribed. You can't compete with Starlink this way. It's just about governme
"Nearly 300 Satellites" vs 6,700 (Score:2)
Europe still thinking small-side-of-the-pond (Score:1)
Starlink - 6,700+ active satellites.
Europe - planning on 300.
Isn't it about time Europe quit trying to out-US the US?
What a surprise (Score:2)
"the program will be 61% funded from the public purse"
Overpriced (Score:2)
€10.6 billion for 290 satellites? That's about €36.5 million per satellite.
The total cost of SpaceX's Starlink program is not known. The best number we have is from 2018 [wikipedia.org], an estimate of $10 billion for the whole constellation. Assuming the estimate holds for the planned 12000 satellites, that's about $833k per satellite.
As things stand, I do not expect this European system to be profitable.