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Transportation Businesses

Nissan and Honda Agree To Merge (msn.com) 111

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Honda sketched plans for a drawn-out deal that amounts to a takeover of Nissan in all but name, as Japan's automakers struggle to keep up in an increasingly competitive global car industry. From a report: The two announced a tentative agreement Monday to set up a joint holding company that will aim to list shares in August 2026. While their executives called the transaction a merger, Honda will take the lead in forming the new entity and nominate a majority of its directors.

Nissan's partner Mitsubishi may also participate in the deal. Honda and Nissan both are having trouble contending with ascendant domestic automakers in China, which surpassed Japan as the world's largest car-exporting nation last year and is pulling further ahead in 2024. Honda Chief Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe spoke to the level of level of difficulty ahead for the companies when he said during a press conference that their goal is to be competitive by 2030.

Nissan and Honda Agree To Merge More | Reply

Nissan and Honda Agree To Merge

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  • This mornings news says that Mitsubishi is joining this merger.
    This will either add weight to the sinking or ? help it float?

    • I for one, welcome our new HondaNissanMitsubishi overlords!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      In the US market, merging has-beens usually just makes a bigger has-been. Maybe Japan is different? We'll see...

      • Re:Mitsubishi is joining the sinking ship (Score:5, Interesting)

        by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @12:14PM (#65034721)
        I think we'll continue to see lots of consolidation in Japan going forward, because it's a rapidly shrinking nation [statista.com].

      • Honda is hardly a has-been, it's second only to Toyota In the small SUV space [goodcarbadcar.net]. The CR-V has been popular for a while.

        Now Nissan, there I'd agree it's kind of a has-been. I never hear anyone talking about them anymore.

        • Nissan was a pioneer in EVs with the Leaf, but unfortunately did not follow through with a more diversified EV portfolio. Now they have been left behind.
          None of these Japanese car companies merging or not, has made a serious effort in EVs. That's undoubtedly why some are struggling.

          • They also clung to the "battery thermal management isn't necessary" bullshit long after it was obvious it was terrible for longevity. Pioneering the space, and giving yourself a bad name in the space simultaneously. Good move.

            I think their new SUV finally has a liquid-cooled battery. Only took them like... 15 years.

            • You don't need to tell me, I leased a 2012 Leaf. I returned it early. They should have put active cooling. And also ship a higher capacity battery. Still, it was a run car to drive. The range was just too limited. I switched to a 2015 Volt, which I still have. Post pandemic, I seldom use any gas. The engine maintenance ran twice in the last few months.

      • It depends on if they do it smartly. For example, they should keep all the Honda engineers, as they build quality products that last. Nissan does not, and has not for some time.

        However, Honda's styling has always been super conservative with a few exceptions, where Nissan is (for better or worse) more likely to take a risk on style and design. Sometimes that works out, and sometimes you get the Nissan Cube.

        If they can keep the reliability up (and drastically increase reliability for Nissan) then this cou

        • The only part that Nissan is worse at than Honda is the transmission. Their CVTs are trash. Everything else is fine, albeit not spectacular like it used to be. Yes the corrosion protection has gone downhill but have you seen a Honda lately?

          • They need to look at the Ratio Zero transmission, which is a geared CVT. It doesn't provide reverse, but it can do neutral to infinity. This ensures there is actual torque that can be handled by the CVT, and because the CVT is all gears and not belts, it should last significantly longer than the CVTs.

            There is always going EV + range extender as well, which greatly simplifies the drivetrains.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rossdee ( 243626 )

      Is it just Mitsubishi's car division that is involved in this? They make a lot of other stuff besides cars.

  • Nissan (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @11:50AM (#65034625)

    Nissan being the Chrysler of Japan, will their quality improve or will Honda's tank as a result? I think Honda has been slipping lately in regards to quality.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by edis ( 266347 )

      Would be pity. My entity of Honda Jazz, purchased over 20 years ago brand new, was impressive hit of vehicle engineering. Still a keeper. Just bodywork could address slightly better our European challenges of weather. Layer or more of anti-corrosion purpose could be very meaningful. Anyway, Japanese engineering was top notch.

    • My question exactly. Hondas are high quality, Nissans are at the bottom of the heap. However, that may be because of penny-pinching.

    • Remember what happened to Mercedes Benz when they merged with Chrysler? Remember what was *supposed* to happen?
      History will repeat I think.

      • The T1N Dodge Sprinter wasn't a bad vehicle. The 5-banger was odd, but if one fixed the turbo resonator with a metal one, it could run on almost any jungle juice you could imagine (B100, etc.)

        Now the newer ones are a different story. Just like any Mercedes, it runs very well... when it runs. However, when it has issues, you pay Mercedes prices for parts and Mercedes prices for service.

    • I'm thinking the same thing. Of all the car makers, the most reliable I've had are Hondas, by far. Honda just knows how to do vehicles "right".

      I hope quality improves. In general, Japanese brands are known for their reliability [1], so Mitsubishi and Nissan being under the Honda umbrella may not be a bad thing, especially if car technologies like good hybrid drivetrains transfer over. It may also make a useful product line, for example a Nissan Titan with a hybrid system similar to the Ford F-150 PowerB

  • Honda used to be hot. What the F did they do wrong? Somehow Toyota let them eat their lunch. Toyota's are arguably slightly more reliable than Hondas, but Toyota's are butt-ugly, making it a wash.

    • The old saying was if your Honda has a problem keep driving it and it will fix itself.

      Then they stopped caring about quality.

      I have a Pilot with significant unibofy corrosion at only ten years old.

      The twenty year old Toyota is fine in the same conditions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by GoTeam ( 5042081 )
        My 2013 Accord is still fine. Maybe it got more hit-or-miss 10 years ago. I'll drive this car until it dies. No unnecessary "smart" features.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by edis ( 266347 )

        Yep, they lack the most on body. The rest of my Jazz 2003 is of beautiful design and engineering.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sconeu ( 64226 )

        Had a 2004 Pilot EX(? top of the line trim).

        The driver's window kept falling off its internal support, and failing. Plus the stripping on the rear window fell out to some extent.

        Got rid of it in 2016 (logic was "Paid for covers a multitude of sins").

        • Do you happen to remember if it was fixed with OEM parts? The window regulator is something a hundred no-name brands sell on ebay, but in my experience they are junk. I go with Dorman, not to much more expensive but my luck has been better with them.

    • Re:How did they F up the lead? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @12:28PM (#65034773) Journal
      What the F did they do wrong?

      Bean counters. They started listening to accountants on ways to save a few cents here and there.
      • Honda may have cheapened is designs but it also lost its mojo. In the 80's and 90s, Honda was cool. They were hugely successful (under their own brand) in F1, they had the NSX, CRX, "Type-R" Hondas and Acuras (just watch the first Fast and the Furious), and the S2000 which in retrospect seems like something of a swan song.

        They've certainly made some efforts and a few sparks in the last couple decades, but not like it was.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Hodr ( 219920 )

          Didn't help that the designs were shifted to focus on some futuristic cyber-punk aesthetic while their price put them in the realm of more conservative (i.e. older) car buyers.

          • This is exactly right. Honda tried to attract younger buyers with styling borrowed from The Transformers, but kept the prices too high to appeal to the market attracted by that styling.

            Nissan basically stayed true to their roots but made a series of terrible CVTs that had people staying away from their vehicles in droves. Everything else about the vehicles is still at least as good as a Honda, and the handling is still superior, but most people can't drive worth shit anyway so that is wasted on the public.

        • Add to it the headaches of emissions regulations killing a lot of fun cars.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by khchung ( 462899 )

      Honda used to be hot. What the F did they do wrong?

      Japanese car makers all made huge bets on the wrong technology (hydrogen), but the world went to batteries, so they were all caught with their pants down, and now are unable to compete with BEVs around the world.

    • Re:Why don't these Japanes companies (Score:4, Informative)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @12:02PM (#65034697)

      Nissan Leaf
      Nissan Ariya
      Subaru Solterra
      Honda Prologue
      Toyota bZ4X
      Mitsubishi i-MiEV

      • Re:Why don't these Japanes companies (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @02:02PM (#65035031) Journal

        The Solterra and bZ4X are the same car, a joint venture, and is absolute dogshit. It would have been a mediocre EV in 2014 but for the year it was released it's embarrassing... especially for Toyota who has decades of experience in electrified drivetrains but apparently couldn't be bothered to use any of that knowledge.

        The i-MiEV has been completely out of production for a few years now, and for the past decade was only available in limited markets (e.g. basically Japan only). It's also disappointing in the specifications with under 100 mi range from the factory... again forgivable in 2009 but it was never improved upon.

        The Prologue EV has gotten good reviews but is not competitively priced for what you get, so it's not super popular.

        Only Nissan has any credibility as an EV manufacturer because they were the first (in partnership with Renault) to offer a mass-market and reasonably affordable EV. However despite 15 years of making them the LEAF didn't get a liquid cooled battery until 2025 and still has a Chademo port. That's a major miss so despite being very well priced they are not going to be first choice to anyone who understands what those words mean (especially re: Chademo port).

        Japanese and European brands have fumbled the automotive market in almost exactly the same way that the US did decades ago. Now it's China's turn.
        =Smidge=

        • especially for Toyota who has decades of experience in electrified drivetrains but apparently couldn't be bothered to use any of that knowledge

          Yep I've always found this deeply weird. The Prius motor is underpowered for an EV, but only by a factor of 2. It's just bizarre that Toyota didn't double the size of the motor, and drop the engine. They had a serviceable EV more or less ready to go in terms of the hard won knowledge of not making one that breaks. And today they have a plug in Prius with a decent mot

          • The people I know who like myself prefer German cars are going to continue buying German cars. The idea we will all switch to something Chinese is kind of laughable.

        • The prologue is not even a Honda. It's badge engineered GM. They were too cheap to even replace the controls so it feels like one, too, alienating Honda customers.

        • In a way, it would be nice to see Chinese cars on US soil. The only ones are rebadged Buicks and Cadillacs like the Buick Envision. Just because everywhere else in the world is getting that choice, and something like the Chinese Yangwang U8 just puts anything from the US to shame in the SUV department. Even the BYD Shark puts almost all US pickups to shame.

          IIRC, the US has the most limited and overpriced car selection in the world, where companies like VW refuse to sell vehicles that are useful or what i

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by _merlin ( 160982 )

            Australia has a more limited and overpriced car selection than the US, but at least we get the BYD and Polestar EV lineups, and the GWM Tank line to provide some competition in the 4WD space.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        It’s really striking how Nissan squandered the early mover advantage it had with the Leaf. It absolutely could have built out a usable tech base off that, and it ought to have been able to reduce costs faster than rivals. But it never happened

        • The Leaf was rightly panned for its trash battery, so Nissan could not parlay that into additional sales.

          • It was a great battery for commuting. It was helped by the tax rebate. You could get out the door on a lease that was $100 a month, and many coworkers of mine did this, replacing cars that used $100 a month in gasoline alone. Insurance at the time was also like half that of ICE.

            • It was a great battery for commuting.

              The average commute in the US is 30 minutes. If you can't charge at work, then that's not enough battery for the really real world for around half of commuters.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        Aside from the Nissans have you ever seen any of these on the road? Excluding Nissan the Japanese auto makers have really only paid lip service to BEVs and now they are paying the price. Even Nissan failed to lever their early success, such a shame.

      • That's not "making EVs", that's doing the bare minimum to qualify for sale in some markets. I like the Toyota example the best. A single car. One. Brand new to the market. Also you put it in the list twice since the Subaru Solterra is the same car. In the meantime the likes of VW has had more than 5 EVs in its line-up for 5+ years now.

        The Japanese are woefully behind in the BEV market. None of the companies are in any shape or form taking EVs seriously, even if they do have one car in their lineup (and borr

    • Japan co's think in the shorter term hybrids & plug-in hybrids are the better bet, and hydrogen better in the long-term, at least in metropolitan areas. In Japan hydrogen is expanding, and they expect to be the trying ground for hydrogen tech.

      Hydrogen is more efficient than EV, but requires the fueling infrastructure to be viable. In heavily populated countries it might fly. In spread-out countries like the US and Russia it may not be a good fit, though, as it's more feasible to use the existing electri

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        I am trying to guess what you mean when you say H2 is more efficient. Maybe speed of refuelling? It’s all I can really imagine. Obviously, H2 is notoriously inefficient as a means of storing energy for a car compared to a BEV. Storage and piping it is also incredibly expensive and difficult, because it’s so embrittling and prone to leakage. (I always think of a Heinlein phrase along the lines of helium being “so agile it will migrate straight through a rubber seal” from Have Space Su

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ukoda ( 537183 )
          I was scratching my head over that one too. The single on paper advantage of hydrogen was refueling time. The reality appears that the hydrogen fueling stations have slow cycles times to build pressure and are prone to nozzles freezing on cars. There is no way the hydrogen fueling experience can compete with the charge where you park BEV option.

          If you really need the "drive to special place and pay some to fill your car" option then battery swap stations are better than hydrogen fueling stations. The

      • Re:Why not EV's? (Score:4, Informative)

        by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @02:21PM (#65035051) Journal

        > In Japan hydrogen is expanding, and they expect to be the trying ground for hydrogen tech.

        Sales of Hydrogen vehicles in Japan are down 83% since 2021, selling just 422 vehicles nation wide in 2023. There's less than ten thousand HFCVs in the country despite being on sale since 2014. That's not what I'd call "expanding."

        > Hydrogen is more efficient than EV

        It takes roughly double the upstream energy input ("well to wheels") to drive a HFCV a given distance compared to an EV. That's not what I'd call "efficient."

        > but requires the fueling infrastructure to be viable

        Tesla, love 'em or hate 'em, had the good sense to invest heavily in EV infrastructure to support their product. To this day their supercharger network is the #1 (and IMHO the only) selling point. That's fading as other manufacturers are gaining access, though.

        But Toyota, who is the biggest investor in HFCVs of the bunch, has invested nothing into fueling infrastructure for their product. None. Hydrogen in Japan was stillborn and never had a chance.
        =Smidge=

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        The problem is less Japan and more Toyota. Toyota was the one anti-BEV and pro-HFCV and forced the reset of the industry down that dead end. There is no metric by which hydrogen is more efficient. 40 years ago hydrogen was the exciting new future, now it is a footnote in the history of automotive engineering.

        The real hope is this merger of Nissan and Honda can break Toyota's control of the Japanese auto industry and allow them the to refocus on what the market actually wants and to allow them to compe

      • We already tried hydrogen here in California and it already failed. Japan is delusional about it. It will never make sense. They want it to because they do not have the materials to make batteries on their little island. It never will.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dusanyu ( 675778 )
      prehaps becuse they are not selling verry fast. https://www.usatoday.com/story... [usatoday.com] https://money.com/why-american... [money.com] https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25... [cnn.com] https://www.forbes.com/sites/p... [forbes.com] Car makers make money as much as cars and they will build was sells

      • I've been eyeing a used Kia Niro but noticed that the Polestar 2 is almost the same price used. Twice the horsepower and the battery has an 8 year 100,000 mile factory warranty. It's so tempting.

        • Don't fear the Chinese either. As a Polestar 2 owner myself I can vouch for the fact that the quality of the car is just like any other, actually better than some that I've driven.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Hodr ( 219920 )

          What part of the country are you in? I can find used Niros all day for $14k to $16k, the cheapest used 2021 Polestar 2 cars start at $30k

      • You're misreading those sites. They all state that sales aren't "growing as fast as expected". The slump is only a slump in an upward trendline.

        Car makers make money as much as cars and they will build was sells

        No they won't. They will dictate to you what you should buy. They will market it as your best option and resist every possible pressure to create a product people themselves choose. The clever car companies follow the market, which is why the same company selling EVs as compliance cars in one country has a huge lineup of them in another country.

        What Japan is doing i

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        I would note all your links are for the USA. Worldwide the up take is better for a number of reasons. The thing here is new tech has a S curve of adoption, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], and BEVs are now in the "early majority" phase. If you are in the automotive industry you ignore this at you own risk **cough** Toyota **cough**.
    • My understanding was that Toyota can sell as many hybrids as they can make. And the limit on how many they can make is the supply chain, specifically batteries. If they made an EV it would take the same amount of batteries as 3 or more hybrids. They make more money selling those hybrids than they will make from selling the EV. And if you are talking about emissions, eliminating the ICE cars those additional hybrids replace will result in a a bigger reduction in emissions than replacing one ICE car with an E

      • Toyota finally figured out how to make a car handle ok just in time for nobody to care because none of them know how to drive any more, they just point and shoot and let the advanced driving features do the job for them. But they also figured out how to design a non-sports car that doesn't look like dog shit. The newest model of Prius looks spectacular.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        That is mainly true of the USA market which is skewed on a number of metrics. Outside of the USA BEVs are taking sales more from hybrids than ICEV for people focusing on environment issues. BEVs are taking more sales from both hybrids and ICEVs for people who care about total cost of ownership. With Chinese BEVs now starting to fall below the cost of hybrids and ICEVs in non-protectionist markets you can expect sales to really take off for almost every sector. Hybrids really only look attractive to peopl

        • As for battery supply chain issues, that is a Japanese problem,

          Well, we are talking about Japanese auto makers. That there are more batteries available in China is really irrelevant, they have to base their decisions on what is available to them where they are manufacturing cars.

          They are really making excuses for failing to invest in the future tech they would need to survive.

          Maybe, but they need to make their decisions on what batteries are available to them now. Right now that supply is limited. They seem to be able to sell a lot of hybrids which require batteries. So why should they waste the batteries needed to build 3 or more hybrids to build one BEV?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ukoda ( 537183 )
            Actually you are highlighting an issue with the way Japanese car companies work, they can only use what their down stream suppliers make. When faced with the same issue companies like Tesla and BYD said "If we can't buy the type of batteries we need we should make them" and set about creating the needed supply chain. A recent example is if Tesla can't get enough lithium to make batteries they will simply refine it themselves, https://www.tesla.com/blog/tes... [tesla.com].

            As for "why should they waste the batterie

  • ICE (Score:1, Troll)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 )

    Japan is still focused on Internal Combustion Engines. Sure they have hybrids, to keep pushing the ICE, and maybe dabbled in EVs - but the main focus is on producing cars with Internal Combustion. Times are changing but Japanese manufacturers are not keeping up.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) *

      You should read about Toyota's batteries that are beginning production.

      Current Teslas will have very little resale value in only two years.

      • Toyota has nothing special, same as everyone in regards to battery tech. I suppose Toyota would need to make EVs that people acre about before it matters, unless Toyota is to stop making cars.

        Yes, all EVs will need batteries at some point and future packs from all manufacturers should see improvements. Solid state batteries portend lots of range and fast charging, no one has them in production.

        I suspect most Teslas have poor resale now. Never been a fan due to quality issues. It is easy to find pictures of

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        Why does every one think that if a new EV option looks good it is going to kill Tesla? That is not how the automotive industry work, it is not about killing your competition, it is about relative market share. If Toyota ever actually produce this miracle battery they have been promising for years now all it will do is make them more competitive than they currently are. Given what they were promising is now all ready matched and in the market by some other companies they are not going to magically jump in
        • If you have a Tesla made in 2000, yes, the resale value will be astronomical.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ukoda ( 537183 )
            Gee thanks, I was assuming it would only be market value. Since it was the top spec version I expect the deprecation to way worse than the common entry level models. The problem is I'm old, so it may out last me, so resale value was not a consideration when I brought it. The thing is if you buy a 10+ year old car then models they only sold in small numbers are pain to get parts for. Models that sold in the millions usually have a healthy aftermarket supply chain. I'm not saying an old Tesla is any bett

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by samdu ( 114873 )

      Meanwhile, Mazda has posted a couple of years of record sales in the US. With ICE cars.

      • Mazda has been quietly working jointly with Toyota to refine a miniature Wankel engine to serve as a battery charging generator that would not be in the drivetrain, sort of like a diesel-electric that trains and submarines use. Haven't seen any prototypes in a couple years, since the concept was announced about 5 years ago.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ukoda ( 537183 )
          An idea that made a lot of sense 5 years ago. As battery prices have fallen and energy densities risen over the last 5 years then need for such an option has fallen off significantly.

          • I wouldn't count the serial hybrid out yet. In places like Europe, where the biggest threat to the electric grid is Russia, not natural disasters, BEVs make sense, just because they have standardized chargers, and solid adoption. However, in the US, power for EVs isn't really guarenteed, and the Bitcoin mining companies as well as the AI companies get first dibs when more gigawatts come online. This is where serial hybrids or BEVs with range extenders come in. Not just to allow people to stop at a gas s

  • properly, will they crash into each other or will one be run off the road?

  • The quoted article states "The two announced a tentative agreement". This is not the same as a scheduled merge that's a done deal.

  • I really hope Honda is the one who calls the shots (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TigerPlish ( 174064 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @12:11PM (#65034713)

    I know TFS says it will, but in business trust absolutely no one.

    If Nissan gets *any* control whatsoever, no matter how minor, it will be the end of Honda.

    And I don't want Honda to go away.

    I won't spill a single tear if Nissan dies, tho. They did this to themselves. Why should anyone step up to help them?

    • Most likely it was the government calling the shots to bail out / absorb Nissan, they have a history of doing such. I think Toyota was directed to do the same with Subaru years ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shanen ( 462549 )

        As I noted in my earlier reply, Honda was not such a cooperative company. But maybe it's changed and is about to follow the government guidance the wrong way around?

        <sound of flushing>?

  • Carlos Ghosn to the rescue (Score:3)

    by toxonix ( 1793960 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @02:21PM (#65035057)

    What they should do is forgive Ghosn and beg him to come back to make them profitable again.
    He ripped out Nissan's cultural and traditional way of doing business and laid off about something like 20,000 workers. He went all management consultant on Nissan, Renault and Mitsubishi, but for a while there they all were really profitable. For a while. Then the deep cuts started showing, and none of them were building or innovating anything really exciting. Nissan/Infiniti in the US are seen as the worst current Japanese cars, with the lowest quality and the ugliest designs. It's kind of the Japanese version of Stellantis, which was also made profitable by closing plants, eliminating jobs and throwing quality out completely. That looks good on the books for the first 5 years, but eventually the whole thing needs saving again because unhappy workers don't make good products.

  • Breaking Toyota's control (Score:3)

    by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Monday December 23, 2024 @04:07PM (#65035321) Homepage
    For several decades I have own Japanese cars and motorcycles but now I drive an American Tesla and ride a British OSET. You can put much of the blame for that on Toyota. Before buying a new car I asked Suzuki what year I could get a new BEV version of their Jimny, the answer was no plans, so I brought a Tesla. I asked Honda what year I could by a BEV motorcycle to replace my ICE Honda motorcycles, the answer was no plans, so I brought an OSET.

    When you look at why the Japanese are ignoring what customers like me have very specifically asked when we can have what we actually want, the blame fall on Toyota. Akio Toyoda has said I am wrong and I want an ICEV. My wallet has said fuck you if you don't want my money I will give it to someone who will give me what I actually want. Akio Toyoda and his head in the sand attitude to change has badly hurt the whole Japanese economy.

    I really hope this merger goes a head and is the first step that leads to breaking Akio Toyoda's control of Japan. Honestly I think the Japanese automotive market has already left it to long and will never be the major power house they once were. I hope I'm wrong but the signs are not looking good for Japan.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nissan was a pioneer of EV technology, but failed to keep developing it. Honda had a decent first EV but the follow up is a weird step backwards.

      The Japanese car industry in general has been slow to adopt EV technology, and is struggling to migrate supply chains. They invested a lot in hybrid systems and don't want to write that off.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        I would agree with that. I think there is also a cultural issue too where as people can see the issues but won't call out people above them as they would see it as disrespectful or career ending.

        I suspect Akio means well and is worried about all the down chain suppliers that will be hurt by changing to BEVs but off shore buyers don't care.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          That's it, they have a big supply chain and much if it is going away as fossil engines do. The need to transition the supply chain is hurting them, while others just build new ones from scratch or are far more agile.

          It's a shame because the Ariya, for example, is a pretty good car.

  • will stop bullying the late Uzi Nissan to get the nissan.com domain?

  • First, they partner with General Motors to make an EV.
    Next, they merge with a crappy car manufacturer (Nissan).

    Shameful.

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