Millions of Windows 10 PCs Face Security Disaster in 2025 When Microsoft Ends Support (betanews.com) 234
"Millions of computers are heading towards a security crisis as Microsoft plans to end support for Windows 10 on October 14, 2025," writes BetaNews:
32 million devices — roughly 65 percent of household computers in Germany — are still running the aging operating system. In the DACH region, including Austria and Switzerland, over 35 million systems rely on Windows 10, leaving millions of users exposed to potential cyberattacks once updates stop. By contrast, only about 33 percent of German devices have transitioned to Windows 11, and over a million are still running even older systems like Windows 8, 7, or XP.
Thorsten Urbanski, an IT security expert at ESET, is sounding the alarm. "It's five minutes to midnight to prevent a security fiasco in 2025. We strongly urge users not to wait until October. Upgrade to Windows 11 now or choose an alternative operating system if your device cannot support the latest version. Otherwise, users are exposing themselves to significant security risks, including dangerous cyberattacks and data breaches...."
Urbanski also points out that the current situation is worse than when Windows 7 support ended in 2020. By late 2019, over 70 percent of users had already switched to Windows 10, while only about 20 percent remained on Windows 7. Today, the transition to Windows 11 is far slower, creating a dangerous environment. "Cybercriminals know these numbers well and are waiting for the end-of-support date. Once that hits, vulnerabilities will be exploited en masse."
"Those unable to move to Windows 11 are being advised to consider Linux as a secure alternative, especially for older hardware."
Thanks to Slashdot reader BrianFagioli for sharing the news.
Thorsten Urbanski, an IT security expert at ESET, is sounding the alarm. "It's five minutes to midnight to prevent a security fiasco in 2025. We strongly urge users not to wait until October. Upgrade to Windows 11 now or choose an alternative operating system if your device cannot support the latest version. Otherwise, users are exposing themselves to significant security risks, including dangerous cyberattacks and data breaches...."
Urbanski also points out that the current situation is worse than when Windows 7 support ended in 2020. By late 2019, over 70 percent of users had already switched to Windows 10, while only about 20 percent remained on Windows 7. Today, the transition to Windows 11 is far slower, creating a dangerous environment. "Cybercriminals know these numbers well and are waiting for the end-of-support date. Once that hits, vulnerabilities will be exploited en masse."
"Those unable to move to Windows 11 are being advised to consider Linux as a secure alternative, especially for older hardware."
Thanks to Slashdot reader BrianFagioli for sharing the news.
Linux as an alterntive (Score:5, Insightful)
"Those unable to move to Windows 11 are being advised to consider Linux as a secure alternative, especially for older hardware."
While it may be, I'm guessing many of the people who can't go to Win11 would struggle with a conversion from Win to Linux, at the OS level as well as getting programs to do what they do with their WinBoxen.
Re:Linux as an alterntive (Score:5, Interesting)
I dont really think so. Maybe with a really awful UI, like the default Unity shell for Ubuntu maybe...
But XFCE4? Just move the taskbar to the bottom of the screen, and it feels *A WHOLE LOT* like the Win7 era UI experience.
If anything, it might be EASIER for them to use. (Quibbles about them not being able to do routine tasks like installing printers is a nonsequitor, as most windows users cant do that themselves *anyway* in my experience.)
If things are set up with desktop launcher icons, and or, are in the launcher menu, they should have essentially zero issues.
Then again, i've been driving under XFCE for... a decade now?...
Still, I let my tech-tarded cousin borrow a small NUC I set up for driving a vintage pen-plotter so she could do some online training before the last vocational deadline, (that happens to be driving xubuntu), and after setting her up with a desktop shortcut, she had exactly ZERO problems with it.
Most of the issues with adoption at this point, I think, are merely inertia.
Inertia that Microsoft is STUDIOUSLY testing, with their "Forced microsoft account!" bullshit.
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I dont really think so. Maybe with a really awful UI, like the default Unity shell for Ubuntu maybe...
But XFCE4? Just move the taskbar to the bottom of the screen, and it feels *A WHOLE LOT* like the Win7 era UI experience.
This. I've moved several grandmas onto Linux (usually a variety of Mint) and they've hit the ground running, and were amazed how nicely their old and slow (on Windows) computers ran on Linux. And if a person converts OS themselves, today, that isn't terribly difficult.
libimobiledevice does not replace iTunes (Score:2)
If things are set up with desktop launcher icons, and or, are in the launcher menu, they should have essentially zero issues.
User story from trying to get my roommate to try an Xfce-based GNU/Linux distribution:
My iPhone SE is on an Apple Music family plan, and now I've found an artist who isn't on Apple Music. So I bought the artist's MP3s on Bandcamp, and I want to sync them to the Music app on my phone so I can put them in a playlist with my other music. First I tried this libimobiledevice thing. It put the MP3 files on my phone, but apparently the Music app's library is separate from files. Then I installed iTunes using this
Re: libimobiledevice does not replace iTunes (Score:2, Insightful)
Too bad you chose to buy a locked down phone that isn't standards-based.
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This is an instance of software doing things it should not be doing.
Specifically, iTunes wanting to talk directly to the hardware, via the USB driver subsystem,
Why does Apple think this is acceptable, instead of using an industry standard communication protocol, or doing abstraction like a proper modern application should?
I dunno, why dont you ask Tim Cook?
(More snarkily, I think it has something to do with Apple's Walled Garden ecosystem, and wanting to keep you inside it, very very much. So much so, that
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I agree with you that the UI changes would be manageable. For 90+% of users, all they need to be able to do with their PC is connect it to wi-fi and click the desktop shortcut to a web browser.
The barrier for such users would be the process of installing Linux in the first place. If they can't Google their way to the registry edits to bypass the CPU/TPM requirements (probably the reason they can't just press the "upgrade to Windows 11 button" in the first place), I wouldn't be confident in them being abl
Re:Linux as an alterntive (Score:5, Insightful)
Those CPU/TPM requirements being the main reason this is even a problem in the first place. By putting in those requirements, Microsoft has made Win11 incompatible with a huge number of older computers that would otherwise be perfectly capable of running it with completely acceptable performance.
Faster hardware won the race against slower software a long time ago now, so relatively "old" computers are nowhere near as slow as they used to be. Thus the motivation to actually upgrade also isn't what it used to be.
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Another vote for XFCE (Xubuntu) which I have been on for over a decade ...
I was on KDE before that, but never looked back.
XFCE is small, functional and stays out of the way ...
Re:Linux as an alterntive (Score:4, Insightful)
If anything, it might be EASIER for them to use.
Citation Required. One of the more interesting things about UI changes is that they seem to universally affect power users the most while normal users quietly go about their business. Think of the biggest gripes you have about Windows 11 and how a normal user would use their PC. Oh the Control Panel is inaccessible, and the settings are a mess - normal users virtually never access these. Oh my favourite shortcut doesn't work - normal users virtually never use them. Oh the start menu doesn't allow me to make folders anymore - normal users rarely modified start menu items.
A lot of the UI changes are driven primarily by what the mass telemetry tells people. I tried installing Libre Office for someone recently and they were perplexed at how to do simple things in Writer, everything is expected to be a ribbon to them. The concept of needing a menu is just not something a lot of normal users understand and they were quick to unlearn it. Power users on the other hand, well we spent half of our computing lives seeing something in a certain way so we will rain fire from the heavens if someone dares change it.
Happy XFCE user here. But I'm sure my mother would be more happy with Ubuntu's default "spam every app on the screen at once" approach. After all it more closely mimics her phone.
Re:Linux as an alterntive (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not going to be easy. We're converting most of our Win10 workstations to Linux (we use RDP anyways, so it's not actually that big a switch). They're perfectly good machines that we're not going to junk just because they don't run the latest and greatest.
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Linux itself isn't the issue as much as the programs used. Libreoffice, as good as it is, is no Microsoft Office. Us nerds have no issues adapting to the changed UI, but for many, learning how to do that thing they used to do with the third button in the upper corner is quite a challenge.
Got my family to switch easily because everything they use requires a browser, and that one is everywhere. It was a lot harder to get my elderly aunt to change since she works with documents and power point presentations an
Re:Linux as an alterntive (Score:5, Interesting)
I would argue that the only real dealbreaker would probably be Microsoft Office, and then, only because Microsoft has tied it at the hip to its OS's licensing subsystem (and thus, is particularly tedious to get to play nice in WINE.)
(Note, TEDIOUS, not IMPOSSIBLE. You basically have to run a fake KMS server to replace the missing OS feature.)
OR-- if you have some very specific need for the EXACT scanner software that came with a scanner, or Printer, or something. (And cannot use SANE and the TWAIN/WIA bridge in WINE for it) or something similar.
At this point, you will have a hard time finding software that does not run in WINE, unless Microsoft has gone out of their way to tie it to stuff WINE does not do, and cannot realistically, legally do (Due to DMCA anticircumvention stuff) like they have done with some versions of Office, or which talks directly with hardware (which is something that shouldnt be happening, ANYWAY, but ....)
Once it is set up, said software can be launched with a launcher shortcut and the end user need not know anything at all about WINE.
Is there some additional setup and maintenance involved here, Oh, for sure.
Is this a "User just CANNOT use their old software, give up all hope ye who enter here!!" kind of thing? Certainly not.
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How many of those PCs are prevented from running Windows 11 because of some Microsoft user-control TPM bullshit?
I'm guessing it's a big number.
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TPM is an excuse, not the real reason. The big problem: before 8th generation Intel, you had Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities that needed to be handled by the OS. As time goes on, mitigating the security problems with those old CPUs just becomes a HUGE headache. Now, Microsoft COULD have said, "Sorry Intel users, but your CPU is causing too many problems with support, so we are going to drop you". Without doing that, Microsoft needed an excuse not to support those older CPUs, and TPM 2.0 was the
Re: Linux as an alterntive (Score:3)
How does TPM solve speculative execution security holes?
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How does TPM solve speculative execution security holes?
It doesn't. The argument is that by adding a TPM requirement, MS gets to drop support for those vulnerable Intel CPUs without having to throw Intel under the bus. Intel is an important business partner, so instead of saying "We are dropping support for these CPUs due to Intel's security bugs" and pissing Intel off, they get to say "Sorry, we have to drop support for these Intel CPUs due to lack of TPM support".
It's a win-win for both companies. MS gets to close a security hole and doesn't need to maintai
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Except of course, that this is not a strictly conserved case.
For instance, Dell XPS15 9560 has TPM2.0, but uses a Gen7 intel CPU. It is thus, NOT SUPPORTED.
Likewise, Inspiron 15 5577 has TPM2.0, but has a Gen7 CPU, and is NOT SUPPORTED.
It is totally about the presence of HyperThreading and pals on Gen7, that is not present on Gen8.
Otherwise, the two generations have identical featuresets concerning processor instruction sets. One is vulnerable to nasty speculative execution exploits, because HT and SGX are
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I've done it to a 2006 Macbook, two different 2008 iMacs (two different distros, one of them a Batocera arcade setup), 3 different laptops, and 2 Lenovo Thinkcenters. I've used Ubuntu, Mint, and Batocera distros.
Each time I did one it was basically 'insert DVD or USB into system, boot to media, connect to wifi or ethernet, install, run all the updates. Done.
I'm a Janitor that dropped out of IT in 2008, so I've had no reason to keep up on the tech and learn stuff as I need it. I usually did those setups on a
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There is at least one service out there that has pledged to continue patching Windows past Microsoft's EOL.
https://0patch.com/ [0patch.com]
I have no affiliation with them, but their service seems interesting.
regedit and PowerShell (Score:2)
I was under the impression that many configuration and maintenance tasks that require the terminal on GNU/Linux tend to require registry editing on Windows. So you're still "typing long, character-perfect strings of BS"; you're just typing them into regedit instead. Not to mention the Windows maintenance tasks that require typing commands into PowerShell, such as removing unused preinstalled Store apps [lifehacker.com] or using DISM to remove old update uninstallers from the WinSxS folder [microsoft.com].
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It's almost as if you haven't used either Linux or Windows for many years as your information is quite outdated. Windows relies more and more on the command line (powershell mainly) for basic maintenance, such as cleaning up old updates. And navigating regedit is still a thing that's needed from time to time.
Not sure what you're going on about with the UAC elevation thing. All current distros implement nearly identical functionality as macOS where elevation requires typing in an admin password.
I set up L
The WOT enshitification of 11 isn't helping. (Score:4, Insightful)
Especially with all the Recall and AI crapware on top of the "TPM 2.0 required" bullshit to lock down devices away from your own control, and anyone's surprised folks are going "BLEEP THAT!" to that faustian choice?
Re:The WOT enshitification of 11 isn't helping. (Score:5, Interesting)
Especially with all the Recall and AI crapware on top of the "TPM 2.0 required" bullshit to lock down devices away from your own control, and anyone's surprised folks are going "BLEEP THAT!" to that faustian choice?
Maybe 5% of computing society can say “Fuck That!” (we’re adults here) AND have the drive, desire, and intellect to find an actual alternative.
The other 95% of society will do exactly what planned obsolescence expects them to do. Bitch, but ultimately not posses the capability or desire to seek out alternatives.
If they did, Microsoft OS would have died with the shitware known as Windows Me.
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More accurately, this is just a Re-Run of the "Cannot upgrade to Vista" phenomenon.
Did it spur some people to switch to Linux back then? Sure.
Enough for critical mass?
NO.
I expect similar this time.
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Especially with all the Recall and AI crapware on top of the "TPM 2.0 required" bullshit to lock down devices away from your own control, and anyone's surprised folks are going "BLEEP THAT!" to that faustian choice?
Maybe 5% of computing society can say “Fuck That!” (we’re adults here) AND have the drive, desire, and intellect to find an actual alternative.
The other 95% of society will do exactly what planned obsolescence expects them to do. Bitch, but ultimately not posses the capability or desire to seek out alternatives.
If they did, Microsoft OS would have died with the shitware known as Windows Me.
THen they get exactly what they deserve. If learning how to do things is simply too much trouble, then they get as much shit as they will put up with. Which in some people means there are no limits to the stinky diarrhea then will happily swill down and act like that's the only possible outcome, and say their daily prayer:
Windows is great
Windows is good
It smells kind of awful, but the shit we eat is our food.
Re:The WOT enshitification of 11 isn't helping. (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of them could go over to apple
This is my plan for IT for households I manage. My past attempts to encourage Linux all failed, but this time around I plan to migrate people that have iPhones (most) to MacOS by telling them it is just like their iPhone.
Re: The WOT enshitification of 11 isn't helping. (Score:2)
So you lied to them and think that will help? iOS' interface is bad in one way, Mac OS' is bad in another. The skills from one don't carry to the other because they use different bad paradigms.
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Some of them could go over to apple
A lot could. Most could.
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Some of them could go over to apple
I'd think buying a new Mac would be much more expensive than a new Windows 11 OEM junker. They'll rationalize that they know Windows better anyway.
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Especially with all the Recall and AI crapware...
Given the privacy invasion represented by the programs you mentioned, I propose that we start calling it creepware.
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I work for a UK government contractor. In my branch of government, all of the desktops are Windows 10 (locked down very tightly, probably so much so that it doesn't send telemetry). There are *no* online accounts for anything (there's barely any internet access), so I seriously doubt they'll be switching to Windows11-like-everyone-else-has-it. I am looking forward to what they do decide to do - this isn't the first time Microsoft has given them a cliff edge to navigate, but it's possibly the "worst" one.
I p
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Unable? I'm sitting here with a computer that I built 5 years ago. I've upgraded some of the components over the years but the motherboard is still the same. And it runs Windows 11 just fine. ...
The REAL problem is that 99% of computers sold by the big OEMs contain the cheapest, shittiest hardware possible.
That's the problem here. The average user isn't like us. We are fine building our own systems, but uncle Jim and grandma Ruth almost always get OEM if they need a new computer.
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" but uncle Jim and grandma Ruth almost always get OEM if they need a new computer."
But they won't be getting a new computer, unless they buy in the next few days.
He said they were going to have tariffs on day 1 .
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>
He said they were going to have tariffs on day 1 .
Uncle Jim lives in Brazil and aunt Ruth lives in Germany. So what is this nonsense you're blabbering on about?
Win11 sucks. (Score:3)
Win11 sucks.
It's simple as that. So far I found many UX regressions - but not a single improvement.
Best argument for upgrade was always that it was an upgrade. Now this gone too.
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Win11 sucks.
It's simple as that. So far I found many UX regressions - but not a single improvement.
Best argument for upgrade was always that it was an upgrade. Now this gone too.
This. W11 was forced on my work computer (which realistically could almost be a dumb terminal as all it's for is to VPN in and connect to the secure jump servers, OK I can read my email and teams on it which is why I said almost). After spending time figuring out how to stop it trying to look like an abortion of MacOS and bring it back to some semblance of Windows 10, there are still little things that have changed, all for the worse and some can't be gotten rid of. If MS ends W10 support I might start by
Re:Win11 sucks. (Score:5, Informative)
I was telling a friend who uses Windows that when I open Windows 11 I have a hard time finding things like settings etc, they seem to be in various places with the organisation making no sense. He told me "but there is a search function"... As a Windows 11 user he has normalized the fact that you have to use search to find common settings and need to do that every time since you still can't figure out where they actually are. That's not how any reasonable UX works.
I switched completely to Mac for a few years now. It was hardware that did it in the end, I had a nice Ryzen Thinkpad which I liked and thought was plenty fast until we went Apple Silicon at work and it was the kind of jump in performance I had last seen when going from HD to SSD. Yes, Apple dumbs down and locks down their OS so I do see some features go (sometimes with easy workaround, sometimes not), but it is a much more coherent experience overall, plus the unix experience works better than WSL, so I really don't miss WIndows.
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As a Windows 11 user he has normalized the fact that you have to use search to find common settings
This has always been my response to search. When you go to the store to buy eggs (assuming you can afford them) do you go to the vegetable section to see if the egss are there? Do you go through alcohol section? The chips? The cereal aisle? No, you go straight to the refrigerated section to get your eggs.
One should not have to search. You should be able to go straight to what you want.
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Microsoft might have them in vegetables next to the eggplants. And you'll be lucky if they are not all broken too.
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It's what they call "crisps" over there, and has nothing to do with fish or silicon unless things are getting really weird. I believe they even put jelly on their bread/toast in the mornings...
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And no, the 1853 date is too late to apply.
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To continue with the grocery analogy, I argue that search is like curbside pickup.
If I want eggs, I open the store's app, search "eggs", click "add to cart", and when I go to the store someone is waiting out front to hand me my purchase. What do I care how illogically the store is laid out if there's a much more convenient option than going in and finding my groceries myself?
No, you go straight to the refrigerated section to get your eggs.
You may find yourself very confused if you ever go to a European grocery store where the eggs are sitting unrefrigerated on a shelf
Search for settings (Re:Win11 sucks.) (Score:2)
As a Windows 11 user he has normalized the fact that you have to use search to find common settings and need to do that every time since you still can't figure out where they actually are. That's not how any reasonable UX works.
I switched completely to Mac for a few years now.
I have been using the Mac since 1984, and guess how I often find the settings (because they change around with the MacOS versions)? And I almost exclusively use Search for settings on the iPhone; it's a real mess.
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I was telling a friend who uses Windows that when I open Windows 11 I have a hard time finding things like settings etc, they seem to be in various places with the organisation making no sense. He told me "but there is a search function"... As a Windows 11 user he has normalized the fact that you have to use search to find common settings and need to do that every time since you still can't figure out where they actually are.
And why they do that is beyond me. When we tried out a W11 computer, I had to go to the intertoobz to find out how to do simple maintenance items that on W10 I did by muscle memory. That's bullshit. And some things I did with a mouseclick now took like 3.
And the search business. Yeah, it works a good amount of the time, but doesn't that harken back to MS-DOS Days? only with a severely dumbed down command line? That's not how any reasonable UX works.
I switched completely to Mac for a few years now. It wa
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Search for settings and options IMO is fine. "Settings" are by definition not user-friendly, since every time you need to tweak them is a case of something not working like you need it to.
The main problem is that you can never find settings that are not there anymore. Or settings for "new features" that are not really configurable (and you notice that as if entirely delivered via web).
Settings aside, on a more basic level, Win11 became the first Windows where MSPaint and Notepad, after many upgrades, stoppe
Re: Win11 sucks. (Score:2)
"Settings" are by definition not user-friendly"
Decent settings are logical and found in one place and that is friendly to users who know how the system works.
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Settings in macOS is just as bad now. Has a search function and I have to use it now that they've made the whole app into a glorified iOS app.
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Don't they alternate regression so you have a reason to get 12? Just accept this is regression and be happy when 12 arrives.
Multi-tab file explorer (Score:2)
That's an improvement in my book.
Multi-display cursor snap (Score:2)
Another improvement. If you use two displays of different sizes, the cursor no longer gets stuck at the edge of the screen if the other screen isn't defined at that position.
I still stick to Windows 10, just because I'm too lazy to update and handle the differences, but at least some of them are configurable (in settings or the registry), so I'm guessing that once I move and tweak I won't feel that 11 is too bad.
For reference, it also took me a long time to move from Vista to Windows 7.
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Never had been a fan of the tabs feature (present elsewhere for decades now). It's bit like the browser tabs: it adds one more level of nesting, making switch between two windows a non-singular action, thus harder. It's fine as long as I'm sitting in this one application - but as soon as I need to involve 1-2 other applications into the workflow, then it simply messes up everything for me/requires too much of concentration. (It might have been a different matter if I could tab-ifying everything arbitrarily
Nothing will happen. (Score:3)
Microsoft isnt dumb enough to take the black eye they will get for this.
Either the numbers will improve, they will get the uptake rate they are looking for by summer or so. They certainly are not going to update support dates or make any promises before that because it would only encourage people not to switch. Otherwise MS will just extend the support window for Win10 in some way at least as far as serious security issues are concerned. Its not like it even represents a huge effort for them. Most of the code base, that is security critical anyway hasn't changed much or at all.
The remaining possibility is they do some additional spin of Win11 with slightly relaxed hardware requirements to get hold outs to upgrade. I'd say this is least likely thought because as far as desktop Windows is concerned Microsoft sees the content industry as its real customer they want to be able to assert most users can't do certain thing on Windows when its on physical hardware and some release of 11 beyond 22h2. No they don't care about the enterprise as far as Windows goes, that play is Azure platform and Office365, various accompanying products like sharepoint online, teams, power BI, etc. Microsoft is perfectly happy for people to use Outlook in Chrome on some Linux as long as they get to sell an E5 license!
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I'd imagine that removing the TPM requirement for upgrading to Windows 11 can be still done with just a few registry changes. If Microsoft is REALLY scared about this, they'll make the necessary modifications.
What I find odd is that almost every major software and game release in 2024 still offered Windows 10 support. Again, if Microsoft was REALLY scared about low Windows 11 upgrade adoption, wouldn't have they made upgrading a pre-requisite for the shiny new stuff?
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Didn't they already announce paid extended support program, where you pay them for the updates to win10 that used to be free?
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Didn't they already announce paid extended support program, where you pay them for the updates to win10 that used to be free?
Yes. For $30 for a single year of extended support (whether Microsoft will offer it for additional years, and at what price, is not yet known (for businesses the price goes up each year)).
Of course, many people may not want to pay that $30, but that is a choice for them to make.
Re:Nothing will happen. (Score:4, Interesting)
... as far as desktop Windows is concerned Microsoft sees the content industry as its real customer they want to be able to assert most users can't do certain thing on Windows when its on physical hardware and some release of 11 beyond 22h2.
I think what you're saying is that MS is effectively pushing everyone back to the server-and-terminal days. In that case I think you're entirely correct - and not just about Microsoft, but about the entire tech industry.
I was about to say "the entire consumer tech industry", but it's worse than that. Basically, even fairly large companies will end up using cloud-based everything under some other corporation's control, because it won't be practical or even possible to run their own server farms.
It's all about renting versus owning, and data-mining, and serving ads. In short, it's all about extreme parasitism.
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pretty much what I am saying. Microsoft's interest in Windows at this point pretty much boils down to it being first a marketing channel in its own right, and second DRM.
Call it the analog hole or the frame buffer hole or whatever but eventually you have have to represent content in CPE hardware as something like a raster image and plain representation of sine waves at some point. Windows second job is about making that as hard as possible for people to get at/copy etc to appease their content customers.
Ev
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I expect to see
We need actual protest (Score:3)
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The legal system is too slow, we need to make Microsoft shit their pants instead. Don't just run away to Linux, actually force Microsoft to unshittify Windows. I don't know how, but we need to put up a big stink somehow. If you are a Microsoft employee or contractor reading this post, please put pressure on from within.
The only cure for Microsoft is for people to stop using them. If you don't stop using them they will happily give you whatever crap they demand you eat. I'm pretty much Microsoft free now, and it is fscking awesome. One program left that I need Windows for, and that laptop is only used when I need that program.
My Macs and My Linux machines simply work.
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Bender Bending Rodríguez (Score:2)
Disaster, you say. Hmmmm.
Consumer Windows 11 is a no-go (Score:3)
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Don't forget about them constantly re-enabling One-Drive after every Feature Update....
https://answers.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]
Coupled with this "But you SHOULD USE THE CLOUD, DEAR USER-- you SHOULD use THE CLOUD!" nonsense.
Scare tactics (Score:2)
Major change in support window (Score:2)
Windows 10 started a big change in the support window for Windows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Every version of Windows before 10 was supported for 10 years after the release, with multiple additional Windows versions coming out before support ended.
Windows 10 only has two years support from each major build release date, and only one new version (11) has come out since it was released.
Windows historically had a stereotypical "every other release is crap" reputation, and it was pretty normal to skip ma
Why all the hyperbole? (Score:2)
No really, we get these crazy news cycles every other fucking time. It happened with 10 when people wouldn't switch from 7, and again before that when they replaced XP. The world didn't end.
Re: Why all the hyperbole? (Score:2)
Its yours to use forever (Score:2)
Re:Its yours to use forever (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe that's because they have older hardware without TPM (and there are plenty of i7 era PCs around that are still working just fine), maybe because Windows 11 doesn't support some app/hardware they have properly, or maybe they've taken one look at the Windows 11 UI/UX and run away screaming in horror (which I feel is probably the larger fraction). The expectation that any of those groups will just go out and buy a whole new PC and/or OS they don't want and deal with it, even if their existing setup meets their needs, just to because Microsoft and various pundits say they need to because of security reasons they probably don't understand is insane at the best of times. That they're trying to do this when people simply don't have as much spare cash as they used to, we're already in a period of global uncertainty with multiple on-going militiary conflicts, the very real possibility that Trump is going to start trade wars with both China and the EU (amongst other things making the financial outlook uncertain), and is it any wonder that more than half of Microsoft's OS customers are giving them the finger?
It's going to be an interesting game of chicken between Microsoft and their users, which is going to be a very entertaining trainwreck to watch regardless of where you sit on the matter. Given how much of a part cyber-warfare now plays in any wars (including trade wars - viz. the recent hack of the US Treasury Dept.) and the potential impact of vast numbers of vulnerable PCs in the wild, there's also a fairly major third player in all this - when the penny drops - if it hasn't already - I suspect some governments might be having a "quiet word" with Microsoft execs about their approach as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Waiting on Microsoft (Score:3)
I built my desktop around eight years ago, just under top of the line hardware at the time. It isn't the fastest out now, but it can run most games with slightly reduced graphics, and any other program runs fine. Despite being a perfectly fine computer still, it isn't Win 11 compatible. I'll upgrade as soon as Microsoft fixes this problem.
Didn't they already stop supporting in mid 1990s (Score:3)
I mean Microsoft stopped giving out support for their products in the mid 1990s. What we are talking about now is not support, but fixing defects. In fact those are not defects that occur through use, but defects that were in the products when they were sold. Essentially design defects.
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Yeah but (Score:2)
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Simple answer (Score:2)
Airgap them. Repurpose as disconnected from the internet devices. If they need network resources, replace.
Again? (Score:3)
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Time for me to bury future windows. (Score:2)
I've been using windows nearly 35 years. from windows 3.11 for workgroups, 95, NT, 2000, xp, 7, currently on 10.
I disabled tpm in bios to not get 11 spam. 10 is the hill I'm gonna die on.
I'm now retired from IT, I no longer NEED windows at home. I still play some games on my fast rig, once I no longer can,
I'll simply find an alternative, some flavor of linux. I'm hoping steamOS on PC gets better and better.
M$oft has lost me as a customer. F*** your force-fed features.
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Laptop/Notebook != PC
Wild stab in the dark, bogus/non-existent TPM or poor driver maintenance by vendor?
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I dunno about that... maybe for bargain ones.
I have a very old DellXPS 15, that has a 7th generation i5 (and is thus "TOO OLD" by microsoft's Esteemed opinion), that has TPM2.0 functionality.
It's running XUbuntu 24.04, and not Windows, and does a bang up job of it too-- But still. It's a bit old, and showing its age, and has TPM2.0 function. The fact that many BRAND NEW units lack it, is just OEMs being "cheap chinese plastic crap".
The TPM is a fine feature if it is under the user's control. (It's basica
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Sadly, in microsoft's world, the TPM is used to CONTROL the user.
Nope. TPM is a crucial link in modern auth - primarily because the large bulk of users are so horrendous at protecting themselves. That's it. Anything else exposes the account to age old attacks.
Why the hatred for TPM? MS doesn't control the TPM installed on your device? They don't manufacture TPMs. They use it as intended - per the open standard.
What, exactly, is this "control" you speak of?
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There are essentially zero tools under windows for the end user to see what is inside their TPM Keystore, but random bits of buyware can shove things in there. From a security standpoint, this is not a good thing.
Under linux, I can not only see what is in there, I can add, and revoke, keys as I see fit.
That is a TPM that is under my control, and respects me as the user.
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If, however, you mean "How does Microsoft control the end user" with the TPM?
"User, We noticed that you CHANGED YOUR VIDEO CARD, and now your system's unique hash does not match what we have in the TPM!-- Clearly, this means you are trying to do something AWFUL and NEFARIOUS, like USE WINDOWS WITHOUT A PROPER LICENSE, so now I wont boot at all, except into safe mode! FOR YOUR SAFETY! (Why, AN EVIL, NO GOOD HACKER might JUST MAYBE have infiltrated your computer and changed things!! Maybe!) -- That is, Until
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wierd_w:
How does Microsoft control the end user with the TPM?">
We noticed that you CHANGED YOUR VIDEO CARD, and now your system's unique hash [....] so now I wont boot at all, except into safe mode! FOR YOUR SAFETY!
TPM -- designed for Her pleasure!
The mothergod in Redmond wants to fuck you again.
mccalli:
Because of specific instruction sets missing from a few Intel chips - specifically, the SSE
Well, ain't that a chip in the head!
New PCs mean new Windows licenses.
Good upgradeers make good customers.
I think I'll execute an order for 66 new PCs.
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"User, We noticed that you CHANGED YOUR VIDEO CARD, and now your system's unique hash does not match what we have in the TPM!-- Clearly, this means you are trying to do something AWFUL and NEFARIOUS, like USE WINDOWS WITHOUT A PROPER LICENSE"
Sounds more like you have an OEM license and moved outside the scope of that license. But that's just guessing. I have changed GPU,CPU, NVMe, pretty much everything aside from MOBO multiple times on a full license and have NEVER seen this. Ever.
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*COUGH*
https://forums.tomshardware.co... [tomshardware.com]
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*COUGH*
1st off, ZERO mention of the typical secure boot invalidation message. None. Are you just Google-ing garbage to support your faulty assertion without actually reviewing what you're spamming?
Secondly, what does MS have to do with SB? That's the MOBO fabricators baby. It's the MOBO fabricators keys. What is this, push unsubstantiated FUD day?
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Under linux, I can not only see what is in there, I can add, and revoke, keys as I see fit.
You are most assuredly an edge case.
Added to which, I can flush the TPM at any time on any Windows device with zero issue. I will just be re-authenticated, issued a new cert and away we go.
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Wow are you MS shill or what? Your entire post is really disingenuous. If don't chose to use the TPM or try to say remove Microsoft's certificates and sign the current Windows binaries myself is there any way for me to get Windows to attest to secure boot being enabled, right nope.
So Microsoft and the content partners get to basically TIVO my PC. Either I run their stuff with their signatures and only their stuff or I can't interact with a lot of the outside world in terms of DRM protected content, maybe
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Wow are you MS shill or what?
Awesome logic fail.
Either I run their stuff with their signatures and only their stuff or I can't interact with a lot of the outside world in terms of DRM protected content.
Again, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
MS isn't enforcing 3rd party DRM. That would be the 3rd party DRM rights owners fingerprinting your device and storing this on the TPM. But sure, let's keep pushing the FUD. TPM is an open standard. Vendors are free to use.
Look, the world would be FANTASTIC if we didn't have to lock our doors and windows every time we went somewhere but the hard reality is... security is unavoidable and pretending it is unnecessary is delusional. Yes it's in
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It's not purely a 'how powerful' thing, it's the instruction sets supported.
Re:compliant but not compliant (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, they REMOVED the specific virtualization instructions after Gen7. :P
Let's compare the featureset of a Gen7 CPU with a Gen8 CPU.
https://www.intel.com/content/... [intel.com]
As compared with the Gen8 CPU.
https://www.intel.com/content/... [intel.com]
Against the Gen8's feature list:
Granted, HyperThreading and pals have proven to be a rather poignant security hole... but this can be mitigated by turning the feature off in the OS with a microcode option.
Removing these from the processor is really the ONLY significant change between Gen7 and Gen8, concerning what the CPU can do. They have the same feature level for SSE and pals.
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Every OS has new security issues. Supported OSes don't (I hope, by my definition of "supported") have longstanding, widely-known security issues that can be exploited by any script kiddy.
Get some AV software, keep stuff backed up. You should be fine.
I'm open to suggestions for reliable AV software that isn't worse than the malware it's meant to prevent (Norton, McAfee), but backups won't help you at all against malware exfiltrating your data.
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Exactly this. The browser is the only real surface that is exposed.
Since i run firefox with noscript, i don't see any impending disaster, personally.
Of course, i am not continually downloading apps or media files (except from dvd/bluray).