Man Trapped in Circling Waymo on Way to Airport (cbsnews.com) 130
It "felt like a Disneyland ride," reports CBS News. A man took a Waymo takes to the airport — only to discover the car "wouldn't stop driving around a parking lot in circles." And because the car was in motion, he also couldn't get out.
Still stuck in the car, Michael Johns — a tech-industry worker — then phoned Waymo for help. ("Has this been hacked? What's going on? I feel like I'm in the movies. Is somebody playing a joke on me?") But he also filmed the incident... "Why is this thing going in a circle? I'm getting dizzy," Johns said in a video posted on social media that has since gone viral, garnering more than two million views and interactions....
The Waymo representative was finally able to get the car under control after a few minutes, allowing him to get to the airport just in time to catch his flight back to LA. He says that the lack of empathy from the representative who attempted to help him, on top of the point that he's unsure if he was talking to a human or AI, are major concerns. "Where's the empathy? Where's the human connection to this?" Johns said while speaking with CBS News Los Angeles. "It's just, again, a case of today's digital world. A half-baked product and nobody meeting the customer, the consumers, in the middle."
Johns, who ironically works in the tech industry himself, says he would love to see services like Waymo succeed, but he has no plans to hop in for a ride until he's sure that the kinks have been fixed. In the meantime, he's still waiting for someone from Waymo to contact him in regards to his concerns, which hasn't yet happened despite how much attention his video has attracted since last week.
"My Monday was fine till i got into one of Waymo 's 'humanless' cars," he posted on LinkedIn . "I get in, buckle up ( safety first) and the saga begins.... [T]he car just went around in circles, eight circles at that..."
A Waymo spokesperson admitted they'd added about five minutes to his travel time, but then "said the software glitch had since been resolved," reports the Los Angeles Times, "and that Johns was not charged for the ride."
One final irony? According to his LinkedIn profile, Johns is a CES Innovations Awards judge.
Still stuck in the car, Michael Johns — a tech-industry worker — then phoned Waymo for help. ("Has this been hacked? What's going on? I feel like I'm in the movies. Is somebody playing a joke on me?") But he also filmed the incident... "Why is this thing going in a circle? I'm getting dizzy," Johns said in a video posted on social media that has since gone viral, garnering more than two million views and interactions....
The Waymo representative was finally able to get the car under control after a few minutes, allowing him to get to the airport just in time to catch his flight back to LA. He says that the lack of empathy from the representative who attempted to help him, on top of the point that he's unsure if he was talking to a human or AI, are major concerns. "Where's the empathy? Where's the human connection to this?" Johns said while speaking with CBS News Los Angeles. "It's just, again, a case of today's digital world. A half-baked product and nobody meeting the customer, the consumers, in the middle."
Johns, who ironically works in the tech industry himself, says he would love to see services like Waymo succeed, but he has no plans to hop in for a ride until he's sure that the kinks have been fixed. In the meantime, he's still waiting for someone from Waymo to contact him in regards to his concerns, which hasn't yet happened despite how much attention his video has attracted since last week.
"My Monday was fine till i got into one of Waymo 's 'humanless' cars," he posted on LinkedIn . "I get in, buckle up ( safety first) and the saga begins.... [T]he car just went around in circles, eight circles at that..."
A Waymo spokesperson admitted they'd added about five minutes to his travel time, but then "said the software glitch had since been resolved," reports the Los Angeles Times, "and that Johns was not charged for the ride."
One final irony? According to his LinkedIn profile, Johns is a CES Innovations Awards judge.
"Trapped" (Score:3, Informative)
https://support.google.com/way... [google.com]
Re:"Trapped" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Trapped" (Score:5, Informative)
I think the bigger miracle is that he was able to reach somebody at google. It should probably occur to him that this...
Johns, who ironically works in the tech industry himself, says he would love to see services like Waymo succeed, but he has no plans to hop in for a ride until he's sure that the kinks have been fixed. In the meantime, he's still waiting for someone from Waymo to contact him in regards to his concerns, which hasn't yet happened despite how much attention his video has attracted since last week.
...aint happenin'.
Re: (Score:2)
Anybody who works in tech knows that Google "tech support" doesn't respond to inquiries. Which is why they went to the press instead, in order to publicly shame them into a response.
It makes me wonder if I should do something similar with my GMail support issues. Instead of deleting the dozens of random Google "account recovery" e-mails I get every week, maybe I should be screenshotting them and sending them to Wired?
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It's just that the car was unable to find a safe spot to stop. He should've waited a hour or two until such a place became available.
Re: "Trapped" (Score:2)
Sounds like you've seen the eternal traffic circle in the first row in front of Costco.
Re:"Trapped" (Score:4, Informative)
Well you shouldn't have to install an app, which exposes you to a _lot_ of security issues, just to stop a car.
This is a solved problem since without the app you can't call for the car in the first place. What next, you walk to the postoffice to send a telegram to Uber to arrange a car to pick you up?
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So that person voluntarily installed an app? Why would he not expect to get robbed. Installing an app is like coating yourself with honey, then rolling yourself next to a bee hive and an ant hill.
Being temporarily trapped in a car kinda is one of the better outcomes, particularly since he could have just aborted the ride at any time.
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Well I avoid apps as much as possible, and when I need to have an app I use more trustworthy stores like f-droid.
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We have now met the slashdot user who sideloads their apps rather than getting them from the app store.
"THE" Slashdot user? Well, there are at least two of us who do that... ;-)
Re: "Trapped" (Score:2)
Except the smartphone can run out of battery while you watch p0r^H^H^H work on your smartphone while in the car.
The control needs to be a physical one, in the car, not subject to battery outage.
Although I wonder what would happen if the passenger couldn't reach google, and let the vehicle circle until it ran out of battery.
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This is a solved problem since without the app you can't call for the car in the first place.
What happens if your Smartphone quit working in the middle of your trip so you can't open the app to ask the car to stop?
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And? You can't call a Waymo with a telephone. What's your point? That you have literally no idea what we're talking about? Just say that next time.
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The google page I quoted says, "tap the Pull over button in your app or on the passenger screen"
Re:"Trapped" (Score:5, Insightful)
" the car will find a safe spot to stop." not "its an emergency stop button". the car obviously couldnt find a safe spot to stop which is why it kept circling....
Re:"Trapped" (Score:4, Insightful)
Unbelievable that the car has not big - GIGANTIC BIG - emergency stop button like any escalator has.
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Stopping in the middle of a highway is an extreme safety risk. Hence the lack of escalator style emergency stop button.
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Stopping in the middle of a highway is an extreme safety risk.
And yet this HAPPENS! In Real Life! The auto tire blows out, you cannot continue driving for more than a few meters. Drivers are taught to turn on their flashing lights and pull over, then call for a tow. Even if you're on the freeway! It is unsafe to continue your trip! Cars have broken down in the middle lane!
I've had it happen to me; the controls broke, I was stuck in neutral on the freeway. I turned on the emergency lights and nearly instantly all the traffic behind me slowed down, moved out of t
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The ask was for escalator style emergency button. That typically engages emergency brakes and halts the system. You do that on a highway and the only thing on your mind is going to be the grille of the truck behind you going through said mind. Or more accurately, brain.
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" the car will find a safe spot to stop." not "its an emergency stop button". the car obviously couldnt find a safe spot to stop which is why it kept circling....
Lets not be overly kind here for pre-IPO stock sake. The car, was literally circling a parking lot. The car obviously didn’t have a damn clue as to where it actually was, safe spot be damned. If the car can park, then it was actually surrounded by safe spots.
We should give autonomous solutions credit when appropriate, but we should also chastise the shit out of them when appropriate too. An autonomous car stuck in a literal parking lot, has NO business being on public roadways without a licensed d
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Define an “emergency” stop for a car moving at freeway speeds.
Um; It's well-explained to every driver in driver's Ed the basic process for performing an emergency stop on the freeway.
And by the way: you still stop when necessary in an emergency stop even if there is no safe spot to pull over. A tree can still have fallen in the road in front of you, even if there is no shoulder and zero space to divert.
Presumably if the autonomous vehicle is working properly there should never be a cause t
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Now maybe we should require autonomous vehicles to pass a Drivers Ed course, take a driving exam with the DMV, and then fill out the paper test? Optionally the autonomous vehicle can wait in line to get an unflattering picture taken as well.
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Re:"Trapped" (Score:5, Interesting)
Could not have happened to a more suitable candidate, too.
Mike Johns is a tactician who sits at the intersection of tech, entertainment, media, and politics — providing creative direction, message development, content strategy, and a 360 approach to business development and growth.
Operating in Los Angeles, Johns serves clients globally with London as his second home. Johns leverages his diverse experience and connection to enhance the image and reputation of public figures, artists, businesses, organizations, and agendas that move the world forward. Goal, impact 1 billion people within the next ten years. He has been featured on Fox News, Wireless Weekly, Los Angeles Times, Variety, Vibe, Black Enterprise, Mobile Entertainment and is among Hollywood’s who’s who decision makers.
ASK ME ABOUT:
DATA | BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY | AUTONOMOUS CARS | SMART CITIES | INTERNET OF EVERYTHING | ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE | CONSUMER ELECTRONICS | DIGITAL LITERACY | ROBOTICS | ENTERTAINMENT | POP CULTURE | INFLUENCER MARKETING | FUTURE OF WORK | SPACE EXPLORATION | EDUCATION
The tactician and renowned expert on autonomous cars, who could not find his way out of a robotaxi... LOL.
Re:"Trapped" (Score:4)
Could not have happened to a more suitable candidate, too.
Mike Johns is a tactician who sits at the intersection of tech, entertainment, media, and politics — providing creative direction, message development, content strategy, and a 360 approach to business development and growth. Operating in Los Angeles, Johns serves clients globally with London as his second home. Johns leverages his diverse experience and connection to enhance the image and reputation of public figures, artists, businesses, organizations, and agendas that move the world forward. Goal, impact 1 billion people within the next ten years. He has been featured on Fox News, Wireless Weekly, Los Angeles Times, Variety, Vibe, Black Enterprise, Mobile Entertainment and is among Hollywood’s who’s who decision makers.
ASK ME ABOUT:
DATA | BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY | AUTONOMOUS CARS | SMART CITIES | INTERNET OF EVERYTHING | ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE | CONSUMER ELECTRONICS | DIGITAL LITERACY | ROBOTICS | ENTERTAINMENT | POP CULTURE | INFLUENCER MARKETING | FUTURE OF WORK | SPACE EXPLORATION | EDUCATION
The tactician and renowned expert on autonomous cars, who could not find his way out of a robotaxi... LOL.
Is that LIST supposed to be taken seriously? Ask him about “DATA”? I almost feel like biting, just to see what this john has to say about the resume whoring.
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Is that LIST supposed to be taken seriously?
Is this a serious question? :)
I mean, I have no idea what that guy supposes, but I'm sure you're taking it about as seriously as I do.
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This list suggests he created a hoax for attention. Though "this has been fixed within a couple of minutes" vs his claim of "I'm not doing this again until they fix it" already suggested that he was creating a hoax for attention.
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Exactly. Who the fuck gets in a robotaxi and starts bitching about "human connection" and "empathy" when things go wrong? That's like going to a Starbucks and being mad that the barista wouldn't take the time to talk extensively about the newest developments in coffee bean harvesting.
Fuck this attention seeking asshole.
Hardware Stop (Score:5, Insightful)
Having no way to physically disconnect the power is not safe - humans can recognize far more emergency situations than an AI can currently - and it should be a basic requirement for all AI systems that they all have a physical shutdown button that stops things at a hardware, not software level.
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Of course when all cars are autonomous, tailgating and aggressive driving will no longer happen and so hitting the emergency brake button will be completely safe, even on motorways/freeways.
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Re:Hardware Stop (Score:5, Insightful)
There is an emergency brake in trains. It does not check if the user has a valid train driver licence, if the moment is most adequate for the operation, or if the person using is a minor or an incapacitated person. If someone triggers the train or metro emergency stop, it STOPS. There is a sticker next to it "abuse is punished by law". Minors and incapacitated are under responsibility of their tutor.
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There is a difference between theory and practice.
Actual safety does not work based on law, and measly definitions "who is responsible", but on practice "what will happen when xyz is misused".
Re: "Trapped" (Score:2)
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Next time, don't use a half finished robot driver.
As a guy working in the field, he sure has learned his lesson.
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RTFA
He did contact support but they were unable to stop the car.
Why couldn't he get out? (Score:3)
open the door at 45MPH or higher? (Score:4, Funny)
open the door at 45MPH or higher?
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Pop quiz, hotshot...
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if you do not tip then I keep the car over 50
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Speeding and running red lights are the best parts of a cab ride. These modern services have lost something
Red lights are for human sleazebags (Score:2)
That will come in time, once they manage to stop in a parking lot.
Red lights are for human sleazebags.
Robots will in the distant future be able to cross red lights without danger, once they become reliable, and may perhaps be allowed to by law....
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The best part is when Clint Eastwood commandeers the cab to go on a high speed chase over San Francisco hills! Or wait, was that Leslie Neilson? In all the excitement I forgot.
Re:open the door at 45MPH or higher? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why open the door at speed when a passenger can simply hit the kill switch and stop the vehicle before exiting. They have fully-functional E-Stops, right?! Safety 101.
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What is a panic button ?
A button for the robot to panic ?
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Middle management: We have a written plan that there will be no bugs, therefore the feature request to have a panic button is denied.
Open the door? (Score:2)
Can you open the door? I bet the car goes into an emergency stop if the doors are opened.
Re:Open the door? (Score:4, Insightful)
doors auto lock while the car is in motion.
Re: Open the door? (Score:2)
Well, my doors lock when the car is in motion, too, but the lock doesn't stop me from opening the door from the inside.
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I'm guessing the locked doors also don't stop the occupants from turning the car engine off.
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My car not only autolocks the doors when the car is in motion, but also there is a feature that locks the rear doors so they cannot be opened from the inside -- a safety feature for children, or if you want to keep a prisoner you've kidnapped.
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If memory serves, unless the child safety is on, the inside door handle MUST open the door at all times. (even if it takes 2 pulls, as is the case when the door is locked)
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Some cars disable the interior door handle and lock when the door is locked with a key. It prevents a thief from opening the door with a coat hanger. I think it's a terrifying feature.
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Went to play with locking in my car.
Indeed the "double lock" antitheft mode left me sitting inside the car with absolutely no way to open from the inside, even from the driver's seat, Had to open using the remote.
Locking this way with someone inside is hard to do by accident, so I guess there's that.
Single lock mode, all doors could be opened from the inside.
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First time?
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I know for a fact I deal with more of this than you do
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It would seem that both your understanding of memes, and the very concept of what "fact" means could use work.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes... [knowyourmeme.com]
London taxis don't (Score:2)
This is to allow passengers who perceive themselves to be being kidnapped can escape. Should Waymo?
having an e-stop button = in control and that = DU (Score:2)
having an e-stop button = in control and that can = DUI in some states.
Put of the plan for self driving cars is help cut down DUI's by driving drunk people.
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Do you have any actual precedent or explicit regulatory text to support your theory, or did you just pull it out of your ass because you don't understand how courts actually apply law?
Just the beginning (Score:5, Interesting)
The more ubiquitous these get the more of these issues will start occuring and the less companies like Google will care. Right now every small issue gets blown up in the media. But pretty soon these cars will be running over people, people will be robbed, and more traffic accidents will occur and we will never heard about.
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just wait for the self driving track to wipe out an school bus full of kids.
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Not the first time this happened (Score:5, Informative)
Back in December a Waymo was recorded repeatedly looping around a roundabout [reddit.com]. Supposedly the company issued a software fix for this glitch.
Apparently not.
Obligatory commitstrip (Score:2)
They fixed it for traffic circles, not for parking lots.
Obligatory commitstrip: https://www.commitstrip.com/en... [commitstrip.com]?
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If the same code navigates a traffic circle as a parking lot then I think Waymo has bigger problems than this bug. It's like saying there's only one possible buffer overflow bug in the entire Linux kernel and once that is fixed there can't be any more buffer overflows.
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Back in December a Waymo was recorded repeatedly looping around a roundabout [reddit.com]. Supposedly the company issued a software fix for this glitch.
Apparently not.
They probably fixed that glitch... this is likely to be an entirely new and exciting glitch.
If computers can think faster than humans, they can also fuck things up faster than humans.
Lack of empathy (Score:2)
A properly empathetic underpaid phone support worker would have at least played him some nice music on a tiny violin, to mitigate the absolute horror of slowly circling in the parking lot 8 times.
(My guess: there was a drain, and the AI was circling it)
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i agree with the first part of your statement, that this is much ado about nothing, so i don't understand where the 2nd part comes from.
From a "taking a cab to the airport" transportation POV how is his overall experience materially different from being stuck in a traffic jam for 10 minutes?
My guess? Tempest in a tea cup.
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Well, if a cabbie is driving in circles, its because he thinks you're a stupid tourist who doesn't know the area, so he is trying to rip you off by running up the meter... the impossibility of which is one of the selling points of the likes of Uber and Waymo in the first place. If a Waymo gets itself stuck into a loop you at least know it's an error, not deliberate malice.
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Just making a shitty "circling" joke. Though I imagine whatever was causing the double rerouting (visible in the video where the car shows its intended path) is going to be excised from the code.
Also, I would consider this much worse than being stuck in traffic for a while. More comparable to eg the cabbie falling asleep at the wheel without causing an accident -- no one likes a reminder that the AI controlling the vehicle can fail in unexpected non-human ways.
Re: Lack of empathy (Score:2)
Where's the personal touch, the human contact says man who uses app to hail a robotaxi : /
Teething problems (Score:3)
That being said, a way to do an emergency stop that can't be overridden is probably a good idea.
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Basically everyone in the city is being forced to take part in a extended alpha test whether they agreed to or not.
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I think the problem is that their teething problems are taking place on roads human beings drive on and these are multi-ton vehicles moving at high speeds.
Waymo so far has been far safer than human drivers. Your point would stand if there were no cars, and Waymo suddenly decided to introduce them into the society.
Re: Teething problems (Score:2)
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It's safer than human drivers in areas that have an exact digital scan and good weather. In other places, not so much.
Waymo is not operating in "other places", so we don't know its safety.
Re: Teething problems (Score:2)
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I think the problem is that their teething problems are taking place on roads human beings drive on and these are multi-ton vehicles moving at high speeds.
Your analogies are a bit messed up. Teething issues by definition are production issues. Baby's teeth don't fall out in the womb, and in projects you don't resolve teething issues before release, by definition they are after release. Given that none of these issues resulted in safety hazards and the most hazardous thing on the road are the human drivers (drivers, really? Not pedestrians, or people actually vulnerable, but you're concerned about other road users behind the comfort blanket of their multiple t
No network areas (Score:2)
I wonder what would happen if the vehicled malfunctioned in an area without cell networks. Even satellite network can be obstructed by tall trees, precisely in the same areas that lack cell coverage.
There needs to be some sort of button the passenger can press to force the vehicle to make an emergency stop.
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Apparently, there is such a button, but I suspect the real answer is that the cars are set up to avoid such areas.
Plus, the areas can be smaller than expected. A cell phone is typically restricted to around 300 mW. Maximum power is actually 4-5 Watts. So if the car has a bigger antenna than a cell phone, located higher up, and can transmit at around 10 times the power, well, it can get good signal in areas that the typical phone can't.
Where, he asks (Score:2)
Where's the human connection to this?
Certainly not in a driverless car, duh!
Empathy has been outsourced... (Score:2)
Not seeing the problem... (Score:2)
It's a dilemma with any sort of automated tech: On the one hand, there ought to be an "override" button that absolutely interrupts the automation. On the other hand, if there is such a button, it will be abused by idiots, which is why it doesn't exist.
On the gripping hand, this guy had a phone number to call, reached someone, and they were able to solve his problem. "Lack of empathy"? WTF? Call-center workers don't have any empathy left, after all the abuse they take.
Empathy (Score:3)
Empathy is a cognitive construct requiring a reasonably high IQ to simulate another persons experiences and then be able to ascertain how they feel about a situation then construct a cognitive solution they will release the other person from said situation.
Empathy will be out of reach of AI and stupid people for a very long time.
The Human Expectation. (Score:3)
”Where's the human connection to this?"
This? Coming from the one who voluntarily chose to pass up every human-powered taxi cab and Uber/Lyft-badged car to specifically use the autonomous car without a human driver?
I truly have no fucking idea how society managed to warp the concept of expectations this badly. People are absolutely delusional for failing to understand a single timeless concept; Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.
So you employ a coachman and groom? (Score:2)
On your logic we should never have abandoned horses because it made lots of people unemployed. The remarkable feature of the capitalist economies is that they DO generate more jobs despite getting rid of so many. The problems mostly come where a local industry is destroyed - be that coal mines or car factories.
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Human Driver (Score:2)
Is it better to be ripped off by a human driver than by a machine?
Thats not irony (Score:2)
Weird complaint (Score:2)
Kind of an odd complaint from someone who got into a driverless car instead of a taxi or Uber. Choosing to pick a robotic car over a human driver and then complaining about a lack of human connection seems indication a lack of awareness.
No "Emergency Stop" button? (Score:2)
I miss ... (Score:2)
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A hardware emergency shutdown button should be part of the base design. I mean put it behind a glassbreak or something if you think it would get abused, but have something to override the computer.
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Does that still work in the day of modern satellite navigation on everyone's phone for free?