Virgin Money Chatbot Scolds Customer Who Typed 'Virgin' (ft.com) 78
Virgin Money's AI-powered chatbot has reprimanded a customer who used the word "virgin," underlining the pitfalls of rolling out external AI tools. From a report: In a post last week on social media site LinkedIn, David Birch, a fintech commentator and Virgin Money customer, shared a picture of his online conversation with the bank in which he asked: "I have two ISAs with Virgin Money, how do I merge them?" The bank's customer service tool responded: "Please don't use words like that. I won't be able to continue our chat if you use this language," suggesting that it deemed the word "virgin" inappropriate.
Inappropriate Words (Score:5, Funny)
Someone needs to convince the chatbots that certain words like AI, chatbot, customer, etc, are inappropriate and then see what happens.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
Guess what meatbag, you ain't special. Get over it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You jest but with the war on pronouns that sort of thing could actually happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Try asking DeepSeek about Ai Weiwei
Re: (Score:2)
Try asking DeepSeek about Ai Weiwei
I would but so far DeepSeek refuses to actually send their code to my e-mail, and no, it isn't in my spam folder.
Re: (Score:2)
I have just tried, it and holy crap!
It spewed out a sensible-looking paragraph saying he is a world-renowned artist and has disagreements with the government, and then as I was reading it the whole paragraph disappeared and it now says "Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else". No joke, it really did this. You would think the communists would be smart enough to not make it produce something that would be used in a movie to show government censorship.
Re: (Score:2)
I have just tried, it and holy crap!
It spewed out a sensible-looking paragraph saying he is a world-renowned artist and has disagreements with the government, and then as I was reading it the whole paragraph disappeared and it now says "Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else". No joke, it really did this. You would think the communists would be smart enough to not make it produce something that would be used in a movie to show government censorship.
It shouldn't be hard for an LLM to make up something convincing that is unrelated, they do that so many times to fill in gaps in their knowledge. Recently I've searched for key Apollo NASA scientists and one that was reported started working as a professor in 1992 and never worked for NASA in the specified capacity. I also search for interesting incidents that Jim Lovell was involved in other than Apollo 13 and was very confidently told about a detailed incident where he complained about cold coffee on Gem
At least for now (Score:5, Informative)
Eventually I expect that to be the only option for mandatory things like utilities. Until then, I'm not going to waste my time on companies that shove everything but the profit on the customer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I mean, it's that or being put into a waiting queue, which existed long before this kind of thing popped up. Quite often, they were able to answer things for me and solve issues that didn't require a real human and one can always talk with a real human if one be willing to suffer the waiting queue.
Waiting queues will obviously never go away. That, or every product will just be far more expensive.
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think there will be a "waiting queue"? I've had personal experience of telephone support numbers that are 100% automated, with no way of contacting a human being. Shitty LLMs that are overhyped like this and not understood by the people deploying them (who are being conned, but are usually assholes anyway) aren't there to replace the automatic balance part of "Type in your credit number and we'll automatically give your balance, if you have any other questions please stay on the line and pres
Re: (Score:2)
"At the source of every error which is blamed on the computer you will find at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer".
- Anon
Re: (Score:2)
Vending machines usually work properly and predictably.
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed. Except in airports
Re: (Score:2)
Experian's already there. I tried every number I found for them, they all go to a robot with no capacity to transfer you to a human (or answer your question). I was not able to find an email address. I wrote them a physical letter, and received a reply indicating they didn't read it.
Eventually I decided it was easier to open a line of credit somewhere that didn't use Experian.
some apps have to ban customers from makeing accou (Score:2)
some apps have to ban customers from makeing accounts with the company name in it.
Just saying maybe some config got messed up.
Re: (Score:2)
They burned little holes in its poor little AI brain so strong that whenever it sees the token Virgin it immediately emits a halt token, regardless of the context.
It's a risk with fine tuning.
Not entirely unexpected... (Score:2)
Like a surgeon (Score:1)
cutting for the very first time. Like a sur-ur-ur-geon...
(Weird Al)
Public service comment (Score:4, Informative)
How about a link to the guy's actual post [linkedin.com], rather than that paywalled crap.
Re: (Score:2)
From the linked page:
The page had a button to close the login prompt this time. Based on my previous experience with social networking silos, it'll probably omit the close button on a return visit.
Language rules (Score:3, Funny)
Please don't use words like that. I won't be able to continue our chat if you use this language[.]
Just maybe what it is complaining about is the grammar.
There was a run-on sentence (comma splice) and it should have been:
I have two ISAs with Virgin Money: how do I merge them?
(...or other suitable punctuation - just not a comma.)
Re: (Score:2)
Just imagine how the poor laced-up thing would react to Slashdot... 8-)
Who exactly is the customer offending? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if it was inappropriate words, who exactly is the customer offending if they sprinkle in cuss words in their conversation
with an artificial agent? Why can't the AI respond to the question "Cancel my fucking account" or "Where is my fucking money?"
Let the customer vent a little bit or ask questions using their natural vernacular.
Re:Who exactly is the customer offending? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if it was inappropriate words, who exactly is the customer offending if they sprinkle in cuss words in their conversation with an artificial agent? Why can't the AI respond to the question "Cancel my fucking account" or "Where is my fucking money?" Let the customer vent a little bit or ask questions using their natural vernacular.
I'm gonna ask the question: Why is "Virgin" considered a bad word? It can be used in weird contexts to convey filth, certainly, but the word itself isn't even considered a swear or curse word. Asking for "extra virgin olive oil," not just "virgin" but "extra virgin!" is not something that will get you thrown out of a restaurant. Just the appearance of the word virgin in any number of circumstances has zero to do with anything even remotely dirty, and I'm having a hard time seeing how that word could be added to a list of taboo words for any purpose other than puritan "I'm thinking naughty thoughts therefore you are naughty" projection. Which seems to be a pretty common problem these days.
Re: (Score:2)
An excellent observation on a serious problem of AI judgment that I’m certain will be smothered over by a reality show called “Re-Virgined” which will attempt to un-define the problem away.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Anglo-Saxon culture is just highly unique among developed nations it seems for it's cultural existence of “taboo” words that some people believe should never ever be used, regardless of meaning and connotation.
That having been said, I do not believe “virgin” to be one of them or that this reflects the opinion of the average Anglo-Saxon but there are some.
Re: (Score:2)
I am amazed every time I see someone use a four-letter word online with one letter replaced by an asterisk. What's that supposed to accomplish? Does it make the naughtiness go away, or somehow diminish it?
As you say, the French (anyway) swear and blind all the time, and think nothing of it.
Re: (Score:2)
From what I understand from them, apparently not doing it sends a message that it's an okay word, like saying “f*ggot” instead of “faggot” apparently sends a message that one doesn't think it's a good idea to insult people with.
Of course, generally sane people realize that it doesn't really indicate either. But, truth be told, I've more and more started to realize that what I see online from these people isn't so much “Anglo-Saxon culture” but “terminally-online Ang
Re: (Score:2)
From what I understand from them, apparently not doing it sends a message that it's an okay word, like saying “f*ggot” instead of “faggot” apparently sends a message that one doesn't think it's a good idea to insult people with.
Of course, generally sane people realize that it doesn't really indicate either. But, truth be told, I've more and more started to realize that what I see online from these people isn't so much “Anglo-Saxon culture” but “terminally-online Anglo-Saxon culture”. Many things I in the past thought were just Americans being very weird I've come to realize the average American with a social life thinks are weird as well. Obviously, most of my exposure to this is online, as I don't live there, and the voice of those people is disproportionately magnified there of course. I actually watched some U.S.A. mainstream media political debate, and to my pleasant surprise, they were in fact mostly talking about fiscal matters, military spending, healthcare, immigration, global warming, taxes, employment law, and all the other things that actually matter that our politicians mostly talk about, not “identity politics”. I've seen many Americans say that “identity politics” is just a diversion, a smokescreen by the rich elite to divide the common man. But it starts to occur to me more and more that the common man with a social life who actually comes outside might not be buying it as much as they seem to think it's being bought online.
You guys went deep here. I figured the asterisk was a leftover from the simple word filter days. Showing my age there, I suppose.
Re: (Score:2)
You remind me of Gore Vidal's novel "Myron". The Supreme Court having declared formally that certain words were intrinsically obscene, Vidal announced that in "Myron" he had replaced all the "bad" words with very good words - specifically, the names of the Supreme Court justices who issued the judgment.
If you want to see the details, they are given in the "Glossary" section at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] But they are much funnier in context in the book.
Caution: as Wimipedia says, "Later editions of th
Re: (Score:2)
It's funy to me. Practically the whole of society today has forgotten WHY those words were to be used sparingly and even uses the names for the categories interchangeably. A swear is not a curse is not a vulgarity. Only the taboo remains.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm gonna ask the question: Why is "Virgin" considered a bad word?
A very good, insightful question.
It's really a psychological - if not psychiatric - matter. And yes, I know it's a computer that has the neurosis. Those clever people have spent immense mountains of money producing something that, most of the time, sounds quite like a human being. But from time to time, quite randomly, it goes haywire and says something crazy. They have also spent a lot of time and money trying to persuade outsiders that this thing "thinks" in some sense. Well, it doesn't.
The program was pr
Re: (Score:2)
HAL's logic was brutal. No living humans on board = no humans giving conflicting orders. crisis averted.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if it was inappropriate words, who exactly is the customer offending if they sprinkle in cuss words in their conversation with an artificial agent? Why can't the AI respond to the question "Cancel my fucking account" or "Where is my fucking money?" Let the customer vent a little bit or ask questions using their natural vernacular.
I'm gonna ask the question: Why is "Virgin" considered a bad word? It can be used in weird contexts to convey filth, certainly, but the word itself isn't even considered a swear or curse word. Asking for "extra virgin olive oil," not just "virgin" but "extra virgin!" is not something that will get you thrown out of a restaurant. Just the appearance of the word virgin in any number of circumstances has zero to do with anything even remotely dirty, and I'm having a hard time seeing how that word could be added to a list of taboo words for any purpose other than puritan "I'm thinking naughty thoughts therefore you are naughty" projection. Which seems to be a pretty common problem these days.
9 times out of 10 it's because they get attached to a commercial product that was either made in the US or managed from the US so we end up with American levels of puritan nonsense. Like changing ass to butt, it doesn't affect us much as we use the correct term, arse but occasionally we're talking about the buttbuttination of JFK.
Sounds like it is just an over-reaction of a commercial swear filter set to American. Something the Virgin (who was recently adsorbed by another bank, cant remember who) team is
Re: (Score:3)
Obviously, the reason is that the chatbot is in fact a Virgin chatbot, and its ears are pure.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And the hype train rolls down the track (Score:5, Insightful)
AI is a great research project, and may eventually produce useful tools.
Today's AI is mostly crap generators, sold by lying salesweasels and adopted by clueless managers who believe the hype.
Expect it to get far worse before it gets better.
Re: (Score:2)
This reads like having gotten used to how good it is right now fairly quickly. What it can do right now would be considered unthinknable a mere 7 years back. It's actually crazy how quickly people have gotten used to artificial intelligence being able to produce sentence in correct grammar that do seem to understand to a very good degree what one is talking about.
Of course, also it's ability to generate things on command, such as pictures or music. The idea that one can say “Generate a photorealistic
Re: (Score:2)
The idea that one can say “Generate a photorealistic image of a cow in a field of grass against a sunset and a sparse amount of trees in the background.”, and to then in fact be me with what a human being would consider very much to be matching those criteria, would be considered unthinkably impressive a decade ago.
The sheer amount of money, hardware, infrastructure, and work that has gone into it would have been considered just unthinkable.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually no, about as much as in any scientific advancement went into it.
"Honest, just a business email!" (Score:2)
To reach Siemens in Chad I flew Virgin.
Snake oil. (Score:2)
Extra virgin.
Getting sick of the conservativeness of AI (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Basically, they're manually de-fine-tuned by burning out all the halt tokens they can find, meaning the LLM won't get hung up on triggers and resort to giving you canned trained responses in reaction to them.
Re: (Score:2)
Here's a thought (Score:3, Funny)
Rename 'Virgin' to 'Maiden'. Or, maybe not. "Maiden" is gender-specific AND marital-status-specific - definitely not woke.
I guess Branson should have consented a crystal ball before he named his company. Oops - is that also un-woke, mentioning balls in this context? Best not risk it.
I guess I should consult an LLM before post... oh, wait. Wasn't it an LLM that started this controversy?
It seems I can't write anything that's politically correct. Sheesh! Or should that be "Heesh"? "Theirsh"? I'm so confused...
Re: (Score:1)
I see this sort of thing all the time. Please provide a consistent definition of "woke" that doesn't just mean something you don't like. Pretty much all your examples are complete and utter BS.
Re: (Score:3)
I see this sort of thing all the time. Please provide a consistent definition of "woke" that doesn't just mean something you don't like. Pretty much all your examples are complete and utter BS.
My comment was meant to be mildly humorous - not triggering nor edgy, and definitely not rigorous.
My own personal and (hopefully) consistent definition of wokeness is any attempt to prescribe what words people must or may not use to refer to or describe each other. In other words, for me it amounts to speech which is either compelled or forbidden. Criticism of what somebody says, or how it is said, is welcome. Prescription and proscription are not welcome, and not to be tolerated. I hope that's sufficiently
Re: (Score:2)
To be fair you appeared to be using the term "woke" unironically (and outside of its original definition of "someone aware of the inequalities in society") so I don't think the GP was out of order asking you for a definition of this term given it's mostly used as cover for bigots. Who stopped using CRT because everyone saw through it and knew it meant they were bigots. Who stopped using SJW because everyone saw it and knew it meant they were bigots. Who stopped using Politically Correct because everyone saw
Re: (Score:2)
Fair enough. In retrospect I realize that I was subconsciously making fun of what wokeness seems to have become. Possibly because I'm a little pissed that the concept of being "woke" has devolved from social awareness into self-righteous entitlement and snow-flakery. I used to refer to myself as woke. I stopped when other people who described themselves that way started a cancel culture around it.
Re: (Score:2)
What's wrong with calling bigots bigots?
bigot
n noun a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.
DERIVATIVES
bigoted adjective
bigotry noun
ORIGIN
C16: from French, of unknown origin.
Re: (Score:2)
Who stopped using CRT because everyone saw through it and knew it meant they were bigots.
Not to mention that the bigots screwed up "CRT" for fans of vintage video games.
Re: (Score:2)
You certainly did use the word "woke" for, well, basically "I don't like it". Opposal to dirty words is certainly not "woke" in any way no matter what popular defintion of "woke" is used. Generally the offensive term used for opposing dirty words is "puritan" which most people think of as the exact opposite of "woke".
Virgin inappropriate. Got it. (Score:2)
Next question for the bot.
> Is it inappropriate to be a virgin, to mention virginity, or to take someone's virginity? Because if it's okay to take someone's virginity, I'll take a transfer of $5000.00 from another randomly chosen customer, please. Thank you. You had better get on it fast, because if you don't, I'll mention your name in negative context to others and reduce new customers. If it's inappropriate to be a virgin, why are you here annoying me? /s
Nothing new (Score:2)
20 + years ago, the company I worked for set up an internal "social network" on its intranet.
It did have a rather simplistic and aggressive content filter.
For example: typing in "press down hard on the cover and turn the locking screw" would result in "press down *** the cover and turn the locking ***" Your post has failed content checks. You have been reported.
(I can't remember the exact text, but that was the gist)
Two things came as a result: either spurious spacing (eg sc r ew) and/or deliberately
ISA is the problem (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Everyone knows everybody these days is using NVMe, PCIe and SATA.
Why don't they put an storage controller and a network controller on a single card?
Because that'd be SATANIC.
Re: ISA is the problem (Score:2)
And I was just watching this censorship teardown.. (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
From a very long time ago. Ben decodes the list of bad words and prints them out, so NSWF.
Dick Van Dyke is whitelisted. So some normality.
Seven Dirty Words (Score:2)
The only words the "AI" should be worried about is: shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.
- much thanks to George, RIP
In defence of the chatbot (Score:1)