Microsoft Quietly Makes It Harder To Install Windows 11 on Old PCs Ahead of Windows 10's End of Support (xda-developers.com) 78
Microsoft has intensified efforts to block unsupported Windows 11 installations, removing documentation about bypassing system requirements and flagging third-party workaround tools as potential malware. The move comes as Windows 10 approaches end of support in October 2025, when users must either continue without updates, upgrade to Windows 11, or purchase new hardware compatible with Windows 11's TPM 2.0 requirement.
Microsoft Defender now identifies Flyby11, a popular tool for installing Windows 11 on incompatible devices, as "PUA:Win32/Patcher." Users are also reporting that unsupported Windows 11 installations are already facing restrictions, with some machines unable to receive major updates. Microsoft has also removed text from its "Ways to install Windows 11" page that had provided instructions for bypassing TPM 2.0 requirements through registry key modifications. The removed section included technical details for users who acknowledged and accepted the risks of installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.
Microsoft Defender now identifies Flyby11, a popular tool for installing Windows 11 on incompatible devices, as "PUA:Win32/Patcher." Users are also reporting that unsupported Windows 11 installations are already facing restrictions, with some machines unable to receive major updates. Microsoft has also removed text from its "Ways to install Windows 11" page that had provided instructions for bypassing TPM 2.0 requirements through registry key modifications. The removed section included technical details for users who acknowledged and accepted the risks of installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.
profits (Score:1)
Don't they get a cut of each new pc sold with windows on it? Or did microsoft buy a computer company?
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Re:profits (Score:4, Interesting)
It's an attempt to create more techno-trash to help increase their profits. Yes, they still get a cut of every new PC sold with Windows, which basically means every new PC sold outside of some very niche OEMs. And they do have their Surface systems.
I'm curious why they think TPM 2.0 is so important. I get the public babble about security, but there must be something more behind it. Does it give them more control of the end-system? Why is this *SUCH* a massive thing for them? It's not like Windows 10 couldn't have been bloatwared up like 11. They could have shoveled all the AI shit into 10 too. Or just not locked 11 to the TPM necessity. Or stuck to their original plan of having Windows 10 be the last version number and just provide "security" (i.e. bloatware) updates going forward. What is their hang-up with it? Is it literally just an excuse to force new hardware purchases? I have my doubts it's that simple.
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TPM makes it more difficult to fiddle with the OS internals and do things they don't like. MS probably envies ChromeOS and how tightly sealed of a box it is.
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TPM makes it more difficult to fiddle with the OS internals and do things they don't like. MS probably envies ChromeOS and how tightly sealed of a box it is.
I've installed Linux on two Chrome devices. Granted, I've installed it on a *LOT* more Windows devices, but it still seems a weird hill for them to plant the flag on.
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TPM makes it more difficult to fiddle with the OS internals and do things they don't like. MS probably envies ChromeOS and how tightly sealed of a box it is.
I've installed Linux on two Chrome devices. Granted, I've installed it on a *LOT* more Windows devices, but it still seems a weird hill for them to plant the flag on.
I've done the same exact things. I used to be a bit easier on early Chromebooks, but can still be done.
Re: profits (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really not just a TPM requirement, lots of people could just add a SPI TPM if that was the only problem as the connectors are fairly common and the TPM is cheap. They also require modern processors, and there is one carve-out for one older chip with TPM 1.2. They are not focused on TPM, but on specific changes to instruction sets.
Both Microsoft and the PC makers they anticompetitively chained to their ecosystem want Microsoft to make changes which sell new PCs. Most Windows licenses are sold with PCs, and vice versa. If we don't buy computers we don't need, they all lose revenue.
This is outright abusive, no ifs ands or buts. It is just more anticompetitive action.
Re: profits (Score:5, Insightful)
Most Windows licenses are sold with PCs, and vice versa. If we don't buy computers we don't need, they all lose revenue.
This is outright abusive, no ifs ands or buts. It is just more anticompetitive action.
Yes, they're screwing customers on several fronts. First, they create an entirely artificial obsolescence and force them to pay for new hardware which they don't really need. Second, they force them to cloud-based everything, so they're renting services rather than buying licenses. Third, they charge them for the privilege of being data-raped by MS and partners.
Microsoft doesn't have customers - they have feudal serfs.
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Yes, they're screwing customers on several fronts. First, they create an entirely artificial obsolescence and force them to pay for new hardware which they don't really need. Second, they force them to cloud-based everything, so they're renting services rather than buying licenses. Third, they charge them for the privilege of being data-raped by MS and partners.
I have a nice fast computer that won't install W11. It functions as flawlessly as a Windows OS can, yet I'm supposed to abandon it. It'll be Linux soon.
Ironically I suppose - my new Mac runs W11 in Parallels very nicely.
The only issue is my new Mac is an M4 arm computer, and my SDR software needs updates on the Windows side to run the digital audio and cat control. Fortunately it runs great on the MAC side. With all of the ARM computers coming out, they need to write ARM based drivers, and soon.
Microsoft doesn't have customers - they have feudal serfs.
And the
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You don't have to sail very far on the seven seas to find a non-TPM/Windows-10 solution. Why not install Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 [massgrave.dev]? Activate it with this script [github.com].
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 will be supported almost another 10 years.
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I'm curious why they think TPM 2.0 is so important. I get the public babble about security, but there must be something more behind it.
I can't provide a link for this, but at the time Win 11 came out, it was said that Microsoft discovered that between 10 and 20% of malware infections could be prevented by simply encrypting the hard disk, so this is what is driving the use of TPM. It's an artificial way to make Windows look less bad for security.
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Simple: As soon as most Windows computers have encrypted disk, that advantage will vanish because malware will be adjusted. There is no security gain here.
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The full disk encryption keeps someone else from booting and logging into your PC. That's all it's really good for, same as any other platform, but it does close the hole where you could boot Linux and change the passwords without having the key for the disk. The TPM is of course used to store the key, so the system is no more secure than the TPM, and as I presume you know vulnerabilities are found for those periodically.
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You can encrypt a hard disk perfectly fine without TPM.
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TPM + Trusted Boot lifts the requirement for typing in an encryption password.
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Its not just TPM, its also SecureBoot.
They're trying to control the entire boot process.
-warning, pure speculation again-
I think their "end game" with this shift is the fact Microsoft also controls the root keys for SecureBoot installed in every motherboard BIOS. This means Microsoft gets to approve OSes installed on each machine, which of course means themselves. They've so far played "nicely" with Linux, but they're not entirely played nicely with others, Rufus for example. But Linux isn't the only other
TPM = guaranteed ad endpoint (Score:2)
That's all. They can sell more ad data.
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I'm curious why they think TPM 2.0 is so important
They need guarantees of functionality to support Bitlocker and other encryption platforms. Just like Windows Vista required a composite capable video card. This isn't Linux. Every version of Windows from this point on will require these features because it is now a core feature of Windows... a set of platforms YOU KNOW WILL BE THERE
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Sure, they get paid for every OEM license of Windows 11 that they sell. I'm sure it's nowhere near the retail pricing profit margin for them, and it's probably closer to the price for bootleg licenses that you can get from services like SCDKey.
Still, it's more than what they get from people upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 for "free". I'm putting "free" in quotes, because you're still paying for it in the time you spent "upgrading", followed by the additional time you spend removing all of the bloatw
Awesome! (Score:2)
What this means for Linux users is that decent hardware which used to run Windows 10 will suddenly become a lot cheaper, as folks who would have upgraded to Windows 11 will instead be buying a new computer and throwing their older hardware away.
Some people just want to buy a new computer every year or so, and Microsoft gives them the excuse to do so. I know that it seems financially and environmentally wasteful to throw away good computers because they're "outdated", but some people value being a part o
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What this means for Linux users is that decent hardware which used to run Windows 10 will suddenly become a lot cheaper, as folks who would have upgraded to Windows 11 will instead be buying a new computer and throwing their older hardware away.
I just "disposed of" 2 desktops and a laptop from work. None of them will run Win11. (I have permission, and drives were removed and destroyed before I got them.) With a cheap new SSD all 3 run Linux amazingly. One of the Desktops will become my new NAS, and the other is going into my friends HAM radio setup as part of his APRS setup. Not sure what I will do with the laptop. Maybe garage computer.
Thanks Microsoft.
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I have not bought myself a computer (well, not counting a few RasPis) in well over a decade. For all of my purposes 10 year old hardware is more than sufficient.
Not bragging on Linux, these machines would be sufficient for the things I do running Windows XP, but Microsoft not only pushes hardware specs, they unnecessarily change the "version" of their OS to push people into believing there has been a significant change, instead of small evolutionary steps.
There is no actual technical reason that they neede
Microsoft has embraced full enshittification (Score:2)
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Once they went down the path of forcing you to search for everything on a pc, the writing was on the wall. If you can't get directly to a piece of software without having to search for it, why not remove everything and just have a search area?
For example, there is no way, that I know, to get diretly to Credential Manager in Windows 11. The only way to get to it is by searching or other similar methods. There is no listing in the Start menu you can use to get to it.
I wonder if this is how stores will become
Re:Microsoft has embraced full enshittification (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want access to all the settings in Windows 10 or 11, create a folder and rename it to: GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}
You know have access to ALL settings one click away.
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Damn wish I had some mod points for this post.
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Why the hell did not a single site I checked ever mention this? Every single one said to either search, use Run, or even Task Manager.
However, this still isn't the same as being able to get to it through the Start menu, and since Microsoft is vowed and determined to get rid of Control Panel, this won't last forever.
But thank you. This helps.
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I think they are trying to increase "engagement time", i.e. how much of your time they waste. For a few years now, doing anything with Windows has taken more and more time and gotten more and more complicated.
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Absolutely. It takes longer to do things in Windows 11 than it did in 10, and far longer than it took in 7 or XP. W2000 was a speed demon compared to 11.
I'm of the opinion the people who "designed" W11 had no concept of usability in mind. Shove everything into whatever box they could find and force you to search for it while at the same time neutering functionality.
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I think it may be intentional on some level. Some group with a lot of power at MS may well think this is a good thing.
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Microsoft needs more than antitrust at this point, it needs its sales department punished.
Microsoft needs its entire C-suite thrown in jail. Not in a Club Fed, but in general population with all the violent lifers.
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Microsoft needs its entire C-suite thrown in jail. Not in a Club Fed, but in general population with all the violent lifers.
The ones El Salvador just offered to hold for 'merka?
From what I've heard of El Salvador prisons? That's pretty close to what they deserve. Maybe we could reopen Devil's Island for them?
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That would be a good idea. Will not happen though and they will continue larger and larger damage to society.
I've Switched to ChromeOS (Score:2)
I got my first Windows machine when Windows 95 came out, I was seventeen years old. Windows 10 will be my last.
On a lark I bought a refurbished Chromebook Plus last year, and it's a great machine. The Crostini Linux VM is Debian compatible and it's been able to handle anything I throw at it. I really don't see the need to buy a new machine just for Windows 11
It's kind of bittersweet too. I've always been a Microsoft fanboy because supporting Windows "pays the bills." My first IT job was working at a call ce
Never heard of Flyby11. Rufus better? (Score:2)
Never heard of Flyby 11. I thought Rufus was the tool most used to bypass Windows 11 requirements. Whats the benefit of Flyby11 over Rufus?
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Rufus is a handy program for making flash drives bootable.
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Rufus is a handy program for making flash drives bootable.
Mayby that was the joke they were making. Using Rufus to make a bootable Linux USB.
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Rufus creates Windows 11 ISOs that bypass Windows 11 requirements.
Screen shot at below link
https://rufus.ie/pics/screensh... [rufus.ie]
In related news... (Score:3, Insightful)
... Linux is easier to install than ever before.
Tired of Microsoft (Score:1)
An argument that this is good (Score:2)
Consider:
Yes, MSFT has an interest in selling upgrades and cutting support for old Windows versions, but to the extent they persuade unsophisticated users to move to TPM 2.0 hardware, they're increasing users' security.
And, arguably, the security improvement is worth more to the average user than the cost of upgrading. (This is of course debatable.)
For some users this will be a clear win, for others a lose, but MS is not doing anything to prevent *sophisticated* users from using old hardware. And presumably
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What "security improvements" are you talking about? Making it harder to block their ads?
Problem isn't the TPM (Score:1)
Lies lies lies (Score:2)
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Assuming you have a license for Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC, which a lot of people won't. In which case you're running a pirated version which is inherently unsupported irrespective of the version.
Oh well (Score:3)
I'm not in the market for yet another PC. Guess I'll continue on my unpatched Windows 10 box. Like most of humanity.
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I'm not in the market for yet another PC. Guess I'll continue on my unpatched Windows 10 box. Like most of humanity.
If you do your own security, you don't need the Windows patches in most cases. And how many private people actually use Windows support? I've always noted that after support ends, the OS is stable.
Remember the Widows XPocalypse? Me either.
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Shrug. That's always going to be the case. Criminals out there right now are doing the same for Windows 11.
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Most competent criminal have moved on and are only attacking enterprises. Far more profitable.
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Automated attacks to recruit members of botnets will always be valuable for use in those attacks, though, as long as Microsoft makes it easy.
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Exactly. I have a firewall on my router and another one running on the PC. As long as I practice safe computing and avoid trojans I should be fine.
I've been on Windows since 3.1 and have never, ever used Microsoft support. So there's that. From the responses I've read on forums, it's worthless anyway. It's invariably someone named Rhoshandiatellyneshiaunneveshenk telling you to run Windows Update and update your video card driver, full stop. I strongly suspect I've helped more people directly in Micro
Easy solution (Score:2)
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How is Proxmox with audio (in and out), e.g. Teams conferences.
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Proxmox uses QEMU/KVM behind the scenes just like libvirt, so audio works fine but video is crap. Even just streaming a single video is slow AF, Photoshop is barely usable, etc. I've heard whispers of projects to improve this but have yet to see anything concrete. If you want reasonable graphics performance you need to use GPU passthrough. I've also heard that it's possible to do GPU virtualization with AMD, but I know no details (or even whether that's true) since I don't have AMD video. For Nvidia, GPU vi
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Thanks. Looks like I may have to move my teaching laptop to Win11. That is regrettable.
Funny story (Score:2)
A couple of months ago I started getting this notice that my Windoze was about to go out of support. Found out that update wasn't installing new service packs. So I got a Win11 24h2 DVD and upgraded it.
It flagged ExplorerPatcher as malware and had to uninstall it before the upgrade would run. Guess Micro$oft wants your Win11 to look like Wi
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I run Windoze under Virtualbox. I upgraded my Win10 instance to Win11 a while ago. It was 21h2 I believe. I also installed ExplorerPatcher so it looks like Win10. A couple of months ago I started getting this notice that my Windoze was about to go out of support. Found out that update wasn't installing new service packs. So I got a Win11 24h2 DVD and upgraded it. It flagged ExplorerPatcher as malware and had to uninstall it before the upgrade would run. Guess Micro$oft wants your Win11 to look like Win11 no ifs, ands or buts...
If you aren't running their Explorer, you probably wouldn't get the constant nag screens to log into your Microsoft account so they can upload all of your data to OneDrive. "For your peace of mind," of course.
Evil assholes do crappy things... (Score:2)
What else is new. Without laws and real penalties, these people will never make decisions in the interest of their users.
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these people will never make decisions in the interest of their users.
Many would argue that forcing users to spend $300 - $400 to upgrade to a PC with a TPM *is* in the interest of those users.
It allows them to take advantage of a number of security enhancements that have rolled out in the last decade.
Oh for crying out loud (Score:1)
I literally just ordered a TPM modle for my backup gaming PC last night, as I'd read that Microsoft had officially published articles on how to workaround the legacy hardware check. I can still run most modern games at 1080P on it w/o issue, so it's frustrating to have it arbitrarily defined as legacy hardware.
Still running Windows 7 (Score:2)
F! Micro$oft!
Good (Score:2)
Home boxes vs Corporate/Government boxes (Score:1)
MS does not care what you do with your home box, keep 10, install Linux, whatever.
Corporations and governments will all upgrade just like MS tells them to do.
Might mean more cheap PCs and laptops for home users.
That's Too Bad (Score:2)
I've been busily setting up our old machines on Debian. Ubuntu comes with too much cruft, and will Debian does require a bit more front-end work, I now have a nice 100gb image I can put on pretty much all our hardware. I've been buying some refurb Win10 machines because they're insanely cheap right now. We still use Windows via Remote Desktop, but Remmina does the job nicely.
Hopefully once the web app we have to use finally gets out of the 2000s by stopping the need for IE-mode, we can use any damned browse
It's Windows 10's marketing fault (Score:2)
When Windows 10 came out, they said it was the last Windows you'll need to buy, it'll just be regular updates from here on out. People didn't want to give up Windows 7 since 8 was such a shit-show.
Now you'll stop getting updates and if your computer is more than 7 years old, oops, you'll need to buy a new one. For Security! Oh, your old computer has a TPM? You processor is too old!
The new computer just happens to come with a new fully paid for Windows license. You'll probably end up throwing your "free upda
Move To Linux (Score:2)
After my Win10 game machine boot HD died in 2023, I used that as an excuse to refresh mobo/proc/power supply/gpu (AMD B650 system) and– neither Win10 nor Win11 would install on it (missing drivers error).
"Fark It!" I screamed out loud and then installed Nobara linux.
I think we're gonna see more folks doing this.
SteamOS (Score:2)
If a Windows install is just being used for games, maybe it is time explore SteamOS?