Rivian Reports First Quarter of 'Positive Gross Profit'

Rivian reported its first-ever positive gross profit of $170 million in Q4 2024, driven by cost reductions and increased regulatory credit sales, despite a $4.7 billion net loss for the year. The company said it expects to sell 46,000-51,000 vehicles this year and achieve "modest gross profit." The Verge reports: Rivian reported $170 million in positive gross profits, which includes production and sales but does not factor in other expenses, for the three-month period that ended December 31, 2024. That was based on $1.7 billion in revenues. The company said its net loss for the fourth quarter was $743 million, as compared to $1.5 billion in net losses in the same period in 2023.

Rivian earned $4.5 billion in revenue for the full year 2024, based on the delivery of 51,579 vehicles. It record a net loss of $4.7 billion, compared to $5.4 billion in 2023. Rivian cited increased revenue from the sale of regulatory credits to other automakers, which is also a primary revenue driver for Tesla. The company said it saw a $260 million increase in regulatory credit sales in the fourth quarter year over year.

Rivian is *almost* cool...

[Valgrus Thunderaxe]

...If they would just re-work those headlights.

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[rsilvergun]

They kind of need them. If you took away those headlights I wouldn't even though they existed. When you see those headlights they don't look like anything else on the road and you know that Truck wasn't built by anyone of the well-known manufacturers.

From the standpoint of a buyer their desirable because it means you get to stand out which a lot of people like doing. Like how does a certain class of nerd that is obsessed with owning a Scout II

Re: Rivian is *almost* cool...

[wavetraced]

Headlights aren't the problem, now they have the money to recall the unbelievably loud heat pump and the "premium" audio system.

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[thegarbz]

I've seen cool headlights. Cool shouldn't be the design goal. https://www.cybertruckownerscl... [cybertruckownersclub.com]

$4.5b revenue for $4.7b net loss?

[Caro Cogitatus]

Someone explain to me how you continue running a company that's spending more than twice what it takes in.

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[timeOday]

That's what the stock market exists for - to give companies a time to grow into profitability.

I'd love to think Rivan will pan out, replacing Tesla. And the government seems pretty committed to locking out Chinese imports, for better or worse in the long run. However, the domestic EV's including GM are getting better. So I think Rivan's window of opportunity may be closing.

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[LDA6502]

However, the domestic EV's including GM are getting better. So I think Rivan's window of opportunity may be closing.

Depends on how badly Stellantis continues to mess up the Jeep brand. Might be an opening for them in that market segment.

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[nevermindme]

Much like peers Rover, Jeep is the only brand worthy of a spin off because they do not need to innovate, their common buyer wears out their bought from new jeep wrangler in 8 to 12 years after 180k miles and series of aftermarket add ons. Vast majority of the components not from the parts suppliers can remain static for the next 10 years and the customer base would not care a single bit, off road DNA rubicon jeep down to the sports, 85% the same parts bin. Midrange winter road SUVs at 30-35% margins

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[nevermindme]

Rivian at 35k is a lot different than a 75k starting point. The ICE navigator on a deep discount vs the EV next generation jeep with a smile face front end is the same cost of ownership in the next 4 years.

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[Art Challenor]

The seem to be well positioned in the delivery van marketplace which none of the bigger players seem to be chasing (yet). That's an area the should be a natural fit for EVs. Relatively short distances (for the most part) and lots of stop-start. I do wonder if anyone has calculated the cost of fuel for UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc. etc.that is spend in idle trucks.

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[hipp5]

The seem to be well positioned in the delivery van marketplace which none of the bigger players seem to be chasing (yet).

Ford has the E-Transit and I'm starting to see them around a fair bit.

Re: $4.5b revenue for $4.7b net loss?

[50000BTU_barbecue]

It's "Rivian".

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[R_Ramjet]

You do this if you're investing all the income of the company for the first few years into growing the company. Amazon went public in 1997 and didn't record its first profitable year until 2003. Of course, lots of companies try this with less successful long term outcomes than Amazon...

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[haruchai]

You do this if you're investing all the income of the company for the first few years into growing the company. Amazon went public in 1997 and didn't record its first profitable year until 2003. Of course, lots of companies try this with less successful long term outcomes than Amazon...

Amazon had a plan to sell anything to anyone so an essentially unlimited customer base

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[tragedy]

If all businesses followed your logic, all of them would close after the first day when their sales failed to offset their startup costs. All businesses have capital costs and other startup costs and it takes time to pay those down. Not to mention that the startup costs can actually be continuous. Companies will often take on more debt to expand before they start turning a profit because it increases their revenue. They do this in anticipation of when they do turn a profit which could be years or even decad

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[Gilgaron]

That's how startups work, it's a happy accident if they end up profitable without needing to get bought

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[Ed Tice]

It costs billions of dollars in equipment to setup a vehicle manufacturing company. You can't charge a billion dollars for a car. If you're Rivian, you charge about $80k for a car. The cost to build that car is probably around $60k in materials and labor. They are selling around 50k cars/year. If they double that to 100k cars/year, they will be approximately breaking even. The US car market is 15 million cars/year. If they claimed 5% of that market, it's 500k cars/year for a profit of about $45B. So

Re: $4.5b revenue for $4.7b net loss?

[dj245]

5% of the US car market is a lot. It would require them to outsell Volkswagen, Subaru, Tesla, Mazda, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz, all of whom have 5% or less of the market. These are established brands with decades of experience with producing new models at regular intervals, and who have survived potentially-bankrupting recalls. Rivian may be able to do that but the monster setbacks are the ones which sink companies and they haven't been tested in that manner yet.

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[Ed Tice]

You've mentioned companies that might not have 5% of the US market, but their total sales worldwide are much larger than the US market. And their US operations are profitable. I pointed out that Rivian would be profitable at 500k cars/year. That's not a hard target. And 5M cars worldwide would be about the same as Volkswagen. There's about a 25% chance they might achieve this. Hence why their stock is worth about 25% of VW!

Here's the explanation

[haruchai]

"The company said it saw a $260 million increase in regulatory credit sales in the fourth quarter year over year"

No credits, no "modest profit"

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[phantomfive]

There's no profit. There is "gross profit," which (in this case) is the same as saying, "We used accounting tricks to pretend there was profit for marketing purposes."

Gross Profit?

[drinkypoo]

Gross profit is a number you lie with in order to pretend you made a profit by ignoring all indirect costs. But it still includes the direct costs of selling your product, so it's not actually a gross (without deduction of expenses) anyway.

And accountants wonder why people don't trust them.

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[thegarbz]

And accountants wonder why people don't trust them.

They really don't. Accountants know they are in a profession which involve complex terms and that idiots who don't understand them will read some nefarious conspiracy into it. There's no wonder about this. Anyone doing anything beyond a grade 10 level of complexity will know there are some people out there who don't trust them because they thing they are performing witchcraft.

Gross profit has a purpose. You not understanding that purpose doesn't make accountants liars. It just means you don't realise that t

Gross Profit

[packrat0x]

Gross Profit is Gross Revenue minus Direct Costs.
That means the company makes money on what it is selling. If the company could increase sales, it will eventually make enough money to cover its Indirect Costs (overhead), thus being profitable (Net Income).
The next step is Return on Investment (ROI). In which the company not only makes a profit, but makes enough profit to be worth investing in (as opposed to something low risk--usual example being US Treasuries).

There are three types of companies:
1) Slow and steady. Already showing Net Profit in the first year, and growing slowly after that. Typical for markets with established competitors.
2) Go Big Fast. Invest vast amounts of money in an attempt to grab market share. Typical for new markets without established competitors.
3) Go Medium. A mix of 1 and 2, the market has established competitors, but it takes a large investment simply to produce the product / service. Typical for Railroads, Airlines, and Ship Building.