Volkswagen Bringing Back Physical Buttons, Says Removing Them Was a Mistake (pcmag.com) 61
smooth wombat writes: In what can only be described as a no-brainer, Volkswagen has announced it will have once again have physical buttons in all its vehicles. As Andreas Mindt, design chief at the company said, removing buttons was "a mistake".
"From the ID 2all onwards, we will have physical buttons for the five most important functions -- the volume, the heating on each side of the car, the fans and the hazard light -- below the screen," he explained, adding: "It's not a phone: it's a car."
This doesn't mean touch screens are set to disappear on new Volkswagens, just that drivers will now have the option of physical controls for their most used day-to-day tasks. The new controls are set to make their debut in the ID.2all, a small, budget EV set to debut in Europe.
"From the ID 2all onwards, we will have physical buttons for the five most important functions -- the volume, the heating on each side of the car, the fans and the hazard light -- below the screen," he explained, adding: "It's not a phone: it's a car."
This doesn't mean touch screens are set to disappear on new Volkswagens, just that drivers will now have the option of physical controls for their most used day-to-day tasks. The new controls are set to make their debut in the ID.2all, a small, budget EV set to debut in Europe.
And also because they have to (Score:5, Informative)
The Euro NCAP safety ratings are changing to include a need for physical buttons for important functions of the car to get the maximum score. Any vehicle that doesn't have physical controls for those things can't get the best safety rating.
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Starting in January 2026, automakers seeking the highest safety rating from Euro NCAP must include physical controls for five critical functions: turn signals, hazard warning lights, horn, windshield wipers, and the emergency call (eCall) system
need more than that (Score:5, Interesting)
You need the vent-mode button. Rear defrost. When you're driving down the highway and notice the windows start to ice up you need a way to turn those on without fucking around with a giant iPad.
You need basic media keys, if the song sucks, again you need a way to change without fucking around with a giant iPad.
Basically anything that's not done exclusively at a stop should have a button. Turning off auto-steering headlights, THAT'S a function that's fine to bury within the iPad menu.
Re: need more than that (Score:3)
Giant, usually slow to respond iPad.
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Slow to respond but is able to stack up all touch inputs to execute serially when it finally comes to life. You will pay for your impatience with your slow expensive crap.
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This is a very good point and if it's me making the rules I would regulate that if there are going to be touch buttons they have to have like a sub 200-ms response time *at all times* no matter what it's doing, lag in a car is dangerous.
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My daughter prefers the back seat because the seat heater has a physical button and she can turn it on immediately. In the front she has to wait for the touchscreen to boot, she tells me the touchscreen is "retarded".
Even kids know better.
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In the front she has to wait for the touchscreen to boot, she tells me the touchscreen is "retarded".
Get your daughter in front of more car designers, she is spot on lol
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Remember the evil overlord list and the 5 year old plan checker?
She sounds like a good one.
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If only it was an iPad.
Most manufacturers put zero effect into decent UI / UX for those things.
And they pinch pennies on the hardware.
It feels more like a Windows Vista tablet.
Goodness of their heart I am sure (Score:5, Informative)
And has nothing to do with the EU threatening regulation to such effect: European car safety body is coming for touchscreens [politico.eu]
Still a good thing to happen, they have the right idea but if statutory action wasn't taken (or implied) here does VW make the same choice?
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The German car giant’s lead designer called the move away from physical buttons in favor of touch screens 'a mistake.'
I imagine if they didn't agree, they would have claimed they were being forced against their will to change how they do things.
Their cheap EV has had them since 2023. Now their nicer vehicles get them too. Thank hell, because fuck touchscreens doing everything under the sun in cars.
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Sure but his statement comes after that announcement.
They're a business, they are making a financial and reputational decision between the balance of (i presume) cost savings on eliminating buttons versus the negatives of non-compliance which could be reduced safety ratings, market competition (Hyundai has said they would keep their buttons all along as an example) and risk of more stringent regulations as a consequence of their non-compliance.
There was a reason they eliminated them in the first place so th
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Also my point really is that this guy's statement is PR, the decision had already been made and we are not privy to those internal discussions so we can only surmise through their actions and the timeline.
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I'm sorry, that just doesn't track with how corporations normally function.
I think everyone sees it as having been a mistake.
Many manufacturers have shifted their cheaper vehicles back to buttons, and started doing so years ago.
The push for touchscreens was a weird fucking perception of luxury thing.
I've often seen it peddled that it was done for cost savings, but the math for that has never checked out, and the fact that manufacturers started getting rid of them
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Sure, but then why call it a mistake?
Makes for good PR "You fool, I planned to exactly this all along! Please don't look at all our prior actions..."
I've often seen it peddled that it was done for cost savings, but the math for that has never checked out, and the fact that manufacturers started getting rid of them on their cheaper models first backs that up as being a myth.
Maybe but I could look at this as taking advantage of existing supply lines, you see lot's of sharing of buttons and components across not just inside companies but even between them, so my theory was it was a choice to save by not having to tool up brand new buttons for new models that requires new electrics, plastic molds, wiring, etc, cheaper models could share more components with existing ICE
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Makes for good PR "You fool, I planned to exactly this all along! Please don't look at all our prior actions..."
I see. Under the premise that people always hated it, VW pushed it on the people, and now they want to apologize for doing so.
That's fair.
Maybe but I could look at this as taking advantage of existing supply lines, you see lot's of sharing of buttons and components across not just inside companies but even between them, so my theory was it was a choice to save by not having to tool up brand new buttons for new models that requires new electrics, plastic molds, wiring, etc, cheaper models could share more components with existing ICE models since the capex for those parts is covered already.
One certainly hopes they take advantage of existing supply lines, heh.
Designing a fresh set of buttons for every single major revision of every single car does definitely sound like wasted money.
I'm still not convinced, though- mostly because, as I mentioned, the cheapest models of cars either got buttons back first, or never lost them- and almost universally had tiny
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Yeah sor sure the Model 3's I would say meteoric rise when it was launched definitely pushed carmakers into a copycat "hey, dont forget about us! we can make stupid decisions too! hell we predate Tesla by decades with stupid shit!" and we can pull some threads when Tesla I believe has been quite clear eliminating the buttons was a cost savings measure wrapped in "cool factor"
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I imagine if they didn't agree, they would have claimed they were being forced against their will to change how they do things.
Well, that wouldn't be unusual. Even the Head Designer are under budget constraints.
Or he may have admitted with this words that it was his mistake. Or he may not have been in that position when that decision was made.
So there is no contradiction here.
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Mandate comes after shift at VW in their cheaper vehicles.
Engineering says original shift was mistake.
Mandate happens.
Slashdot:
Change was made because of mandate!
Re: Goodness of their heart I am sure (Score:2)
Mod up whoever can. The article quoted above is a very interesting read. Talks about not just buttons but screens in general, and other safety features.
Who on Earth allowed Tesla to get rid of indicator toggles??
The idea about cameras watching the driver at all times is a massive invasion of privacy and an overblown babysitting attempt.
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Who on Earth allowed Tesla to get rid of indicator toggles??
Vehicle design regulation in the US is kind of all over the place, there's a lot of explicit things but there are also a lot of vague directives and loopholes to found
Very interesting video on that regualatory topic here: The Senseless Ambiguity of North American Turn Signals [youtube.com]
Probably not (Score:2)
The vast majority of vehicles have always complied with those rather limited rules anyway (eg indicator stalks). IMO this has far more to do with bad press about VWs hopeless touch interface in the last few years, more so than other manufacturers.
Still, whatever the reason for the outbreak of common sense it can only be a good thing.
Voice command (Score:3)
Volkswagen Bringing Back Physical Buttons, Says Removing Them Was a Mistake
While I certainly applaud the Lazarus like re-appearance of physical buttons from the land of dead ideas, I've found voice commands to be an adequate substitute for physical buttons. Your opinion may differ, it doesn't make either one of us wrong.
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What happens when you're sick and lose your voice? Or maybe go to a concert/sports game and yell too much? Or have obnoxious passengers who won't shut up, or like to mess with things (think children). Voice controls can sometimes be ok (I use them on my hands-free device while driving), but for a great many things they fail miserably. Last thing I want is "tttuurrnnn. onn.nnn the... seatt... heatttter... its... f'ing.... cold..." followed by "I'm sorry, I'm programmed not to respond to those words. Wou
Voice doesn't work well in my car (Score:4, Informative)
Thats not an opinion, its a fact. Even simple commands like "radio on" can take 2 or 3 goes , as for setting the satnav, just forget it, its never once got the address correct.
So great for you that yours works, but you're not everyone.
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Because all voice recognition systems are equal in their effectiveness, right? I mean, every single car on the road with voice command capability all use the exact same code and all perform exactly the same, right?
My car has no problem with satnav from voice. "Navigate to ${DESTINATION} in ${CITY_OR_NEIGHBORHOOD} basically works every single time I use it, in both of my cars. Same for my wife.
Don't buy cars with shitty software, if functional software is important to you.
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Yes, so the voice directions should just let you miss turns because someone in the car won't shut up. That's definitely better.
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oops slashdot eat my quote tags
ADHD (Score:1)
The very last thing I'd ever buy is a car with a laptop screen.
My car has a minimal 4" screen for the radio with all sorts of travel statistics options and I have everything turned off but the clock set to amber.
My parents bought a new hybrid recently... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: My parents bought a new hybrid recently... (Score:3)
Don't forget the crank [youtube.com].
You insensitive clod! (Score:2)
"It's not a phone: it's a car."
My phone has buttons.
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Yeah, they looked at a phone and drew entirely the wrong lessons
Hyundai got it right.. (Score:2)
The new Hyundai I just bought has the giant Ipad that can control everything, but they also put in old-fashioned buttons for the important things like ass warmers. I don't have to take off my gloves (or buy those special gloves with the "touch fingers") to control most things.
Re: Hyundai got it right.. (Score:2)
Damage done (Score:1)
May be too late for those guys already, expensive, cheap made, and nanny crap everywhere, thanks but no thanks.
Stop Drooling - It's Still Digital (Score:2)
Lot's of people love their analog controls, but don't get excited. These will be Midi Controllers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI) communicating via a network. But diced finely enough, anything digital can seem analog - just ask any quantum physicist. Or streaming service.
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It goes beyond MIDI, the future for cars is Automotive Ethernet: The In-Vehicle Networking of the Future [keysight.com]
"What's the subnet of your crank position sensor?"
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Physical buttons were CAN a long time before touchscreens came on the scene. Decades. The ECUs that run them were very reliable. And the point is a physical button is just a better UI. whether it's an ECU behind the scenes communicating over CAN, or a rats nest of relays, diodes, and wires, this is still ultimately a good thing for usability.
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All of the buttons on each of my doors connect to a local in-door controller that connects back to the main ECU via CAN- each button with its own CAN address.
It's a 2011.
I'm pretty sure my 1999 did the same thing.
In unrelated Volkswagen-News... (Score:2)
https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/volkswagen-currywurst-rekord-100.html [tagesschau.de]
It turned into a Food Store.
In 2024, VW produced and sold more Curry-Sausages than cars. (Combined number of cars and trucks over all VW-owned brands)
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I bet they made more money on cars than on Curry-Sausages.
(There is a reason why the sell so many: The Curry-Sausages at Volkswagen really are very good.)
Thank goodness. (Score:4, Funny)
My wife and I rented a car recently in Australia which had a touch screen and a row of useless buttons below it. To change the temperature in the car if you were displaying a map using Apple Carplay was (a) hit the home button (to close Apple Carplay), (b) swipe left (to bring up the secondary row of navigation items; the primary row was radio, carplay, and something else I don't remember), (c) tap on the "Environment" button, then (d) adjust the slider on the touch screen (whose touch point required you to actually touch the slider, not just tap the bar for 'up' or 'down'.)
All operations (except the first) were done through the touch screen. Often while traveling down a bumpy windy road at 80km/h. All without any sort of tactile or auditory feedback.
And notice to switch back to Apple Maps (so we didn't get lost), you'd have to press the home screen, then press the "Apple Carplay" button.
Thank God car makers are either coming to their senses, or are being dragged kicking and screaming back to their senses.
Similarly with GM (Score:3)
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The touchscreen in the ID3 suffers from the same issues that many cars have. It looks like someone glued a cheap iPad knock-off to the dashboard. It's not particularly responsive, although not terrible. The UI isn't well thought out. It's also rather small so you can't display too much at once, which alleviates a lot of the issues with touch UIs by eliminating mode switching.
DON'T TOUCH (screen) ME, BRO! (Score:2)
I need more caffeine, so I am not going to preview this. My apologies in advance if thI ramble, use poor grammar, etc.
I'm very glad to hear this, and I hope that Audi and other brands within the group also do this. I would naturally love for all auto makers to go back to a similar setup to my 2012 Audi Q5:
HVAC
Auto mode available, but buttons for defrost, A/C, recirculate. Separate buttons around knobs to choose what mode/option you are adjusting (temp is default-no button pushh) vent to outpunt to, fan lsp
Good. Now Microsoft and Google (Score:2)
We need UIs as they were, with:
- Raised buttons.
- Sunk text entry fields.
- Clear window borders.
On behalf of the people of the world: Thank you.
Was bad cost cutting. (Score:2)
Once you already have a screen in the car, every physical buttons cost money to add, when you could instead make the screen touch and save all that cost.
They only took away the buttons to save money. No one wanted them gone, we all wanted physical buttons. Easier to find without looking away from the road, easier to tell you activated the button and how much you turned the dial.
They did this crap even on luxury cars where they charged you more money for leather seats but 'saved' you money on no buttons.
Don't forget the... (Score:2)
...windshield wipers
Fumbling around a touchscreen in traffic, on a rain slick road with decreasing visibility is never a good idea
It's been ages since I've said this... (Score:2)
One in a series of design mistakes in newer cars (Score:2)
I'm gratified to see buttons returning to dashboards. It's a safety thing. Perhaps manufacturers will also reverse some other mistakes where greater technology has brought worse performance, at least in the US:
1. Thermostats replacing simple heat/cool settings. In the old days, you just set the interior heat with a simple dial. That meant in the winter, you could have warm air blowing on your hands all the time. Newer cars have thermostats that try to maintain the interior at a particular temperature. In wi
80 years ago (Score:2)
Motorola made the pushbutton car radio so people didn't have to look down to tune to their favorite station.
But the new generation always knows better, so their new cars had to put the new paradigm right up front without consulting any actual users.
Great job, guys. Stoopid with two "o"s.
hurray (Score:2)
Hurray for VW. However, removing VW was not a mistake, buttons notwithstanding.