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Windows Microsoft Security Hardware Linux

End of Windows 10 Leaves PC Charities With Tough Choice (tomshardware.com) 116

With Microsoft ending free security updates for Windows 10 in October, millions of PCs that don't meet Windows 11's hardware requirements face an uncertain fate... Charities that refurbish and distribute computers to low-income individuals must choose between providing soon-to-be-insecure Windows 10 machines, transitioning to Linux -- despite usability challenges for non-tech-savvy users -- or recycling the hardware, contributing to ewaste. Tom's Hardware reports: So how bad will it really be to run an end-of-lifed Windows 10? Should people worry? [Chester Wisniewski, who serves as Director and Global Field CISO for Sophos, a major security services company] and other experts I talked to are unequivocal. You're at risk. "To put this in perspective, today [the day we talked] was Patch Tuesday," he said. "There were 57 vulnerabilities, 6 of which have already been abused by criminals before the fixes were available. There were also 57 in February and 159 in January. Windows 10 and Windows 11 largely have a shared codebase, meaning most, if not all, vulnerabilities each month are exploitable on both OSs. These will be actively turned into digital weapons by criminals and nation-states alike and Windows 10 users will be somewhat defenseless against them."

So, in short, even though Windows 10 has been around since 2015, there are still massive security holes being patched. Even within the past few weeks, dozens of vulnerabilities were fixed by Microsoft. So what's a charity to do when these updates are running out and clients will be left vulnerable? "What we decided to do is one year ahead of the cutoff, we discontinued Windows 10," said Casey Sorensen, CEO of PCs for People, one of the U.S.'s largest non-profit computer refurbishers. "We will distribute Linux laptops that are 6th or 7th gen. If we distribute a Windows laptop, it will be 8th gen or newer." Sorensen said that any PC that's fifth gen or older will be sent to an ewaste recycler.

[...] Sorensen, who founded the company in 1998, told us that he's comfortable giving clients computers that run Linux Mint, a free OS that's based on Ubuntu. The latest version of Mint, version 22.1, will be supported until 2029. "Ten years ago if we distributed Linux, they would be like what is it," he said. But today, he notes that many view their computers as windows to the Internet and, for that, a user-friendly version of Linux is acceptable.
Further reading: Is 2025 the Year of the Linux Desktop?

End of Windows 10 Leaves PC Charities With Tough Choice

Comments Filter:
  • In time all who se windows will be broke, fired for not protecting company assets, and looking for jobs.
    But they won't know linux "Because it didn't look like Windows I ignored it."

    Linux devs and admins rejoice watching this luddite train hurtle down a gentle hill.

    You can learn how to use Linux now, or the inevitable is just Darwinism.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      XFCE comes to mind, though KDE Plasma might be even better. Toss on LibreOffice and FireFox and I'd bet that more than a few people wouldn't even notice that they weren't using Windows.

      Kids are the exception, of course. They'll have it figured out the instant they discover that Roblox doesn't work anymore.

  • When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

    • by evanh ( 627108 )

      It's not really customers though. It's what the charities decide to do. Do they leave the existing Win10 installed and pass the risks to the new users? Do they destroy the computers? Or do they install a Linux distro on each?

      It more or less comes down to are they willing to put the effort in to install Linux vs just giving up on their efforts altogether.

      • Re:Customer choices (Score:4, Interesting)

        by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Saturday March 15, 2025 @08:58AM (#65235493)

        >"It more or less comes down to are they willing to put the effort in to install Linux vs just giving up on their efforts altogether."

        How much "effort" is it to install Linux Mint, which installs much faster than MS-Windows? If the comparison were between a machine that ALREADY HAD a usable and "fresh" MS-Windows installed on it and a blank machine you need to install Linux on, that might have a bit more merit (not much, though). But these are recyclers, they likely had to wipe or replace drives anyway. Are there any legit recyclers that leave the previous MS-Windows install in place??? What a nightmare for security/privacy!

        It would be a horrible time to give up on recycling computers. "Old" computers are much faster and more capable than in the past. Placing Linux on previous MS-Windows machines makes them even faster and more capable. They can help people for many years to come; staying free, updated, responsive, and relevant. And it does all that while far better protecting privacy and user choice.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Stopped caring about windows security vulnerabilities years ago. If you operate a typical client machine behind a stealth mode firewall the software you run not the OS is the salient vector for compromise.

    The steady drip of privilege escalations, secure boot vulns, and service bugs are simply irrelevant to most of us. Given the scope and scale of data exfiltration performed by Microsoft the most salient threat to our privacy and security is from the OS vendor itself.

    • by edis ( 266347 )

      I found major vulnerability vector being e-mail: bad things can be delivered right to the desktop trough the mail client, activated by clicking. Other than that, there never was perfect security, nor can be. All the efforts to keep devices in patched state are welcome, yet plenty of machines on Win7 being around without critical unusability does set the precedent. I'd say, just give away machines you don't see fit your bar as they are - for parts, non-critical deployments, whatever. Place sticker of securit

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:39PM (#65234927)

    individuals must choose between providing soon-to-be-insecure Windows 10 machines, transitioning to Linux

    It would be a huge ironic self-own if Microsoft's arbitrary hardware requirements for Windows 11 ushered in a substantial "Year of the Linux Desktop" using older, but still very useful systems no longer capable of running - I mean, allowed to run - Windows. Practically, it wouldn't make dent in Windows usage, but perhaps symbolically.

    I know I'll be switching from using my Windows 10 system (Dell XPS-420, 8GB RAM) to my Linux Mint 22 (Cinnamon) system (DIY: ASRock Z77 Extreme3, Intel i7-3770, 32GB RAM) full-time before October. The XPS-420 will probably also run Linux quite well then...

    • That can be the only reason Windows 11 looks like a garbage linux desktop environment.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Saturday March 15, 2025 @02:06PM (#65236049) Homepage Journal

      Sadly it will never be the year of the Linux desktop, with the sort of exception of ChromeOS which isn't really very Linuxy. Or maybe SteamOS if they ever do a desktop Steamdeck, but again not very Linuxy.

      There are just so many things wrong with the Linux desktop, from how most distros are somewhat broken out of the box, to Linux software distribution being far too much work (Linus mentioned this a couple of years ago and nothing has changed). Most of all though users just can't seem to cope with it.

      Even if the machine was given to them for free by a charity, they would not use it. I'm sure someone will come along to say their 98 year old mother uses it daily after they set it up, but it's a bit different when you have your own personal tech support guy. People have been trying to sell or give away Linux machines for decades, and it never works.

      Which is not the worst thing in the world, Linux is still great for other stuff. Just not desktop.

      • I'm not disagreeing with you but if we swapped MacOS for linux in your post, it would also be true for most users. MacOS doesn't run most Windows software either. It looks different.

        While I'm not an Apple user at any level, I'm pretty sure MacOS is a perfectly usable desktop OS.

        So the real problem is wanting to run software that only runs on Windows. No easy way to fix that so it's transparent for the user. Yes, I do it with plenty of windows software (games mostly) on linux but most the time, it requires a

  • ChromeOS Flex (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CommunityMember ( 6662188 ) on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:41PM (#65234929)
    ChromeOS Flex is not for everyone (and every PC), but where it runs it offers what many people now think of when using a PC (a web browser, and an office productivity suite), so should be considered as a possible alternative to what will soon be an unsupported Windows 10.
    • I was gonna say.

      But frankly, once installed, Ubuntu is pretty usable for basic tasks. It only gets hard if you want to do something beyond the basics.

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Most of the recycled PC charities use Ubuntu on the PCs they sell. This is because the OEM windows license is already iffy - you may or may not be able to sell a PC using a recycled windows license. So most just avoid the issue by instally Ubuntu.

        For basic tasks - which is why you probably went to a recycled PC facility in the first place, it works well enough. And people who go there to pick up parts and other stuff, they probably have enough skills to use it properly or install Windows themselves.

      • Ubuntu is great until a bad software update corrupts a part of it and apt-get just stops updating packages correctly. I've seen this happen more than once on my own PC's. Sure, an experienced Linux admin knows how to fix this, but your typical person picking up a used PC from Goodwill doesn't stand a chance.

        • I've had this happen when I setup a system but didn't pay enough attention to the fact that I wasn't on an LTS release. Some how, I got to the point where migrating via apt to the new release wasn't doable. I tried the official work around and an unofficial but no dice. Ended up redoing the system with the LTS release but it was definitely a frustration.

          It definitely makes me wonder why they have the release schedule setup is such a way that this would even happen, but now I know better. Stick to LTS, even

    • by allo ( 1728082 )

      You can also just install Ubuntu and a Chrome on it. It's not that much different, but you get less Google dependencies.

    • Came here to say this.

      People are familiar with Chrome and likely already have a Google account already. Seems like a no-brainer to just throw this OS on there.

  • And since businesses don't play games then install Linux and move on down the road. Then in your spare time you can still play games on Linux ;)

    • I still hear tell of various industry applications that are only for windows. Accounting software, CAD software, you name it. So it likely does depend on what very specific software your industry uses. Things get worse when it needs to get certified and there are regulatory compliance things as well.

      • It is easy enough to wall off those apps so that you can continue to use them without the worry of every new vulnerability for Win 10. Depends on budget I assume. Or skills.

  • Linux (Score:4, Informative)

    by MBGMorden ( 803437 ) on Friday March 14, 2025 @10:45PM (#65234933)

    I'm not some Linux on the desktop evangelist, but realistically if the hardware is artificially being locked out of running Windows 11 and their purpose is to recycle PC's then switching to Linux is obvious.

    And honestly in today's world if you're not gaming its not really a big deal. Most stuff that the average user does is web based anyways. Chromebooks have proven that many people just need a working web browser.

    • Yup, Linux Mint 22 has security patch support until April 2029. It'll run faster than Windows 10 ever did.

      • And a more Windows-like look and feel with a default install, unlike the very tablet-y Gnome/Unity interface in a default Ubuntu install.

        I've moved several very non-technical people to Mint, and it Just Works for them

      • >"Yup, Linux Mint 22 has security patch support until April 2029."

        And anytime along the way, it will also support in-place updating to newer versions of Linux Mint. I have done this many times on many machines and have yet to have any version upgrade fail. So there is no end-date to support, ever, from that perspective.

        At some point, the hardware will be SO old that it will lack enough RAM or storage or maybe some increasingly important CPU instruction. Or it could develop power supply, capacitor, mem

    • Silver lining: Lots of second hand PC's will become available for Linux users.

      I haven't bought a new PC in years. All of my purchases have been retired PC's from the corporate world.

    • by jowifi ( 1320309 )

      One common application that even relatively unsophisticated computer users will install and for which there isn't really a good Linux alternative is tax return preparation software. Getting these programs working under Wine or Proton is probably beyond the knowledge and skill of most Windows users.

  • Microsoft is always patching security problems. MS will patching up W11 soon. Windows is never fully and finally patched. So what's the difference?

    • by tepples ( 727027 )

      The difference is that Microsoft is leaving known defects in Windows 10 without a public patch. Security researchers analyze changes to Windows that Microsoft releases through updates to Windows 11, and then intruders check if Windows 10 has the same defect, and if so, weaponize the defect into an exploit.

    • Microsoft is always patching security problems. MS will patching up W11 soon. Windows is never fully and finally patched. So what's the difference?

      Insecurity is dependent on knowledge. Knowledge of security problems changes over time. Patching brings down insecurity, knowledge raises it. The two fight each other over the life of the product.

      Once the produce reaches end of life and is no longer patched, knowledge of security problems increases without a commensurate patching closing the holes objectively raising the insecurity of the OS as ways of exploiting it become more widely known. That's the difference.

      Security is not an arbitrary yes or no. It's

  • It runs fast on ancient laptops, it's well supported, and it's free! Almost all productivity data is in the cloud nowadays so migration isn't as hard as you might think. Why not?
    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      As a reminder, ancient laptops are, well, ancient, and likely have spinning rust storage devices...

      I'm really wondering where the users are that have home internet and rely on donated 15 year-old desktops and laptops to get on the internet when the government will give low-income families current model tablets and smartphones if they qualify for free school lunches?

  • Why are people still saying that Linux is not good for end users? It's perfectly easy to use. If you can use Windows, you can use Linux. I assume configuration is pretty different, but if you just want to use a Web browser and an office suite, what is wrong with Linux Mint would sufficing for almost everyone?

    This is true, I had my mom using Debian 3.1 20 years ago. She used it for years and didn't need my help it. She said it was "just so reliable". Meanwhile she got malware on the Windows XP computer

    • Why are people still saying that Linux is not good for end users? It's perfectly easy to use.

      Do you ride a motorcycle to work instead of a car? Why not, it's perfectly easy to use. The question isn't ease of use, it's expectations. Users who buy a computer at a charity expecting them to run like the one they have at home would rightly be pissed when they get it and their operating system doesn't run Outlook or their kids games.

      • On the other hand if expectations never changed then we wouldn't be able to ever replace horses with cars. I'd say it's fine if a charity installs a linux distro to avoid security issues. If one absolutely wants win10 then let them install it. It's more effort but beggars can't be choosers. At least charities wouldn't be distributing software with known vulnerabilities to users.
      • Yes, I use Linux for years. And ride motorcycle to work. And have repurposed a couple old PCs with Linux and given them to grandmothers. No complaints what so ever. Support is so rarely needed. So where is the issue? You can't comprehend? My grandma can. Deal with it
      • Windows 11 is substantially different than Windows 10. So you will have to use a different system anyway.

      • So, Linux is not hard to use, it's just different.

        I think it might be okay for the charity to put Linux on the computer, what else are they supposed to do, anyway? If you're getting a charity computer, it sounds like a reasonable trade-off that you can't run some programs, but can run the main ones you need. And also you don't get malware or other computer crime.

        Maybe the charity could warn that the computer "comes with a web browser, an office suite, other programs but may not run all the programs you wa

  • It's a charitable computer and not meant to be a gaming computer replacement, meaning that what Linux (such as Mint) can offer is more than enough for every day tasks. As a bonus the charities won't have to deal with Microsoft and their refurbishment licenses. Getting more people on Linux is something that is sorely needed given Microsoft's horrible Windows track record that just keeps getting worse. A well set up Linux box will serve an average user just fine.

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      As a bonus the charities won't have to deal with Microsoft and their refurbishment licenses.

      You really think that's a problem? The vast, vast majority of corporate donated PCs arrive with Win 7 or better COA, as that is what's needed to install software assurance windows on corporate PCs, it is the random home PC that shows up with a Windows Vista COA.

      As a reminder, Win 10 or Win 11 can be installed on PCs with Win 7, 8/8.1 or 10 COA. Dealing with MS refurbishment COAs is a choice the charities make.

      • by Teckla ( 630646 )

        For those that don't know (I had to look it up):

        Certificate of Authenticity (COA)

        The COA is a sticker or a label that is often attached to the body of a computer for some versions of Windows or Windows Server. You can typically find the COA sticker on the body of the computer or, for some newer laptops, inside the battery compartment.

        COAs and/or product keys should never be purchased separately from the product.

      • I was under the impression that refurbished computers that include Windows need to have a refurbished COA to go along with them. All refurbished off lease Dell and HP systems I have purchased in past included that brown refurbished COA attached to them. I don't think you're allowed to pass on the original COA if you are a company refurbishing and reselling computer systems that include Windows.

  • > Usability challenges for non-tech-savvy users ..

    I've put people down in front of a Linux Desktop and they can't tell the difference.
    • by azouhr ( 8526607 )
      For me, it really is a usability challenge when I have to use Windows at work. Although, I would not call it challenge but nightmare.
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        That can be a blessing in disguise. Years ago, I was developing enterprise document management systems. On various flavors of UNIX. I had a Linux desktop to work from (native X server to run clients from remote systems). As we were practically down the road from Microsoft HQ, they were always sending sales engineers to ask why we hadn't ported to Windows.

        "Sorry. I don't know Windows."

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      "Can't see the difference" or "overcome the differences"?

      There *are* significant differences - they can be easily overcome, but there are differences, but if they live inside a chrome browser and never do anything outside the browser, I can see not seeing the difference, but have that user try and install a printer or any other minor system admin task and there are real differences.

  • Simple answer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by johnw ( 3725 ) on Saturday March 15, 2025 @05:34AM (#65235281)

    I've passed on loads of older PCs and laptops to non-tech-savvy users. I simply install the latest Debian, set it to auto-update, add a couple of shortcuts on the dock and away they go. Most of them aren't even aware that they have a different operating system apart from the fact that it gives them far less trouble. All they want to do is access the web and their e-mails and compose the odd letter.

    • Yup.. I've been doing that very same thing since about 2010, with friends/neighbors/relatives. I have an interesting policy, with regard to my being the defacto "tech support" for my peer group. That policy is: If you let me install Linux, any problems you have with this system, software or hardware, I will troubleshoot and fix with NO labor charge. If you continue to use Windows, there will be a $75/hr labor charge. I demo KUbuntu on my laptop, with a "skin" that looks VERY close to Windows 7 (or 10 with O

  • I have a Threadripper PC with over $5000 invested in it, I don't want Microsoft to tell me it is "obsolete". Fedora sometimes crashes, but it is better than being constantly pressured to "back up" to Onedrive or have Microsoft push new paywalls at me. Ideally Microsoft should be forced by courts to deshittify Windows, but we all know that's unlikely to happen.
    • Fedora sometimes crashes

      Does it really? It's been years since I've had Debian crash on me.

      I've had a couple of NVidia-related graphics failures, but even they didn't cause a full crash.

      Do you know what caused the crashes?

      • I run KUbuntu, currently 24.04, and have been an Ubuntu user since 7.04. The Linux equivalent of a BSOD, that being a "kernel panic" has NEVER occurred on any of my systems, all which run one variant of Ubuntu or another.

  • I don't know why these articles keep pushing the idea that Windows 10 laptops "may end up in a landfill". Windows 11 can very easily be installed on "unsupported" hardware by anyone with minimal technical knowledge who is able to follow simple instructions.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      It's not a question of what's possible. It's the fact that the majority of people don't have the "minimal technical knowledge" to even consider that running on unsupported hardware exists as an option.

      Most of them don't even know what an OS is or what upgrades are, for them Windows is the PC, the PC updates itself automatically, then one day it starts giving scary messages about being unsupported and telling them they should buy a new one.

      So they either obediently trash their current device and buy a new on

    • Until one day Windows stops updating or, even worse, stops working after an update.

  • My 2020 vintage (maybe I actually got in in 21 or 22?) work laptop has been nagging me to upgrade Win 10 to 11 for free.

    Okay, so I try to update it to Win 11, and after a long and not trivial process, it fails with a cryptic error message. I spend some non-productive time looking into it, but it's not a simple obvious problem or solution. (And no, no IT dept, small company.) Pretty sure MS "knows" what the issue is, but they aren't clearly communicating it to me, that's for sure.

    So I suspect its going to

  • I can't believe Win10 has been around that long. Feels like a couple years at most.

    Time flies. I'm getting old...

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      Sorensen said that any PC that's fifth gen or older will be sent to an ewaste recycler.

      Intel 5th generation CPUs came out 10 years ago (2015), I seriously doubt that many corporations are still running 10 year-old hardware in large numbers, what you could find is the random independent retail store with a handful of machines that old, but I doubt there is a massive number of them that will clog the ecycling infrastructure. A large corporation, the folks that push hundreds of desktops and laptops into the hands of these charities likely have machines that support Win11, namely systems based on

  • challenges? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by markdavis ( 642305 )

    >"transitioning to Linux -- despite usability challenges for non-tech-savvy users"

    Getting tired of this myth. Please show me a typical home user that has meaningful "usability challenges" with something like Linux Mint compared to MS-Windows. And these "challenges" will have to be more than things like some icon differences or locations for settings, because if they "upgraded" from MS-Windows 10 to 11, they would, in fact, be faced with the same thing.

    • How about printer/scanner setup? How about wifi devices not being recognized? Sound device?

      • >"How about printer/scanner setup? How about wifi devices not being recognized? Sound device?"

        How about it? I have yet to have *ANY* of the various tons of machines I have installed Linux on in the last dozen years not work properly, by default, with sound and WiFi (if it has WiFi). I have less experience with printers/scanners, but any network printer will work immediately. My Brother just appears automatically and works with no configuration at all. Others, you might have to choose a model on a set

  • Just this week, I installed Debian Edu debian-edu-11.11.0-i386-BD-1.iso on this 15 years old, 32 bit laptop. Well, it had two challenges. After the first installation on reboot it fell to Grub saying "Can not reach outside (hd0)" or something like that. The solution was to create a separate, small /boot partition at the beginning of the drive. Then the wireless, something lwlwifi, had the drivers but not the firmware. Had to connect to the router through cable Ethernet and got them. It is for charity, for
  • I know it's not ready for prime time, but is it full of security holes?
  • KDE on Linux (Score:4, Informative)

    by menkhaura ( 103150 ) <espinafre@gmail.com> on Saturday March 15, 2025 @11:58AM (#65235805) Homepage Journal

    Just install Linux with some sane DE environment, such as KDE or XFCE, which won't depart too much from the Windows desktop standard (appliaction laucher, taskbar in the bottom, windows with the basic controls - maximize, minimize, close - visible, main application icons - Firefox/Chrome/Libreoffice/Steam on the desktop itself etc).

    Just stop trying to sell gnome/ubuntu as the cure-for-all desktop standard, that undiscoverable mess is insanity to throw at new users without any previous training. A user without training won't need to fuck around with conf files, systemd units and whatnot, the same way as an average windows user won't need to fuck around with the registry or system services. Push a mouse around and click some buttons, every user can do, and he doesn't need to discover/memorize keyboard shortcuts, nor depart too much from his workflow. Gnome is not the answer.

  • Do you even NEED an OS anymore? All the good stuff runs in the browser.
  • Charity doesn't mean giving away useless crap, you still need to hand over something of value, useful value. The proposition of handing over a Windows PC, is that you're handing over a platform designed to violate someone else. It would be like giving them a habitat for humanity house, providing they accept the installation of cameras, but would never have access to the feeds, and couldn't turn them off.

    To summarize Microsoft privacy policies, they should just add this block into all of them:

    "EPSTEIN DISCLOSURE FOR DIGITAL VIOLATION AND DIGITAL MOLESTATION

    We will abuse your digital footprint to the extent possible, by all legal and illegal means, including pervasive, and abusive tracking, data collection, telemetry collection, and any other means we feel required."

    Should you

  • Microsoft will continue to offer security updates for Windows 10 through their paid support program. $30 per device for individuals for the next year of patches, $61 per device for businesses. It does sound like MS is not committing to more than a year, but it's another option.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended-security-updates [microsoft.com]

  • Even the archaic Pentium III has plenty of useful "Modern" functionality. Rather you are using Linux on it or WinXP (perhaps with something like One-Care-Api), many modern applications can be ran. Granted, there are less and less Windows applications and Linux distros supporting 32bit systems, or the lack of PAE. But, even without modern software, lots of aging software is still very useful. The fact that no one (in the majority) wants these machines, if they aren't useful on the Internet, shows that the v
  • Choosing the right distribution to replace Windows 10, for those computers which cannot upgrade to Windows 11, is child's play.

    Distrochooser [distrochooser.de] is a site which basically allows anyone to figure out which distribution fits them best.

    Failing that, go for Linux Mint [linuxmint.com]. You can't miss with that one. Solid Ubuntu core, without all the Ubuntu crap. Rock solid choice. Also, you can pick and choose which DE you want.

    If you want the latest and greatest, but stable, go for Solus Linux [getsol.us]. It's a stable rolling release distri

  • There are only installation challenges, not usability challenges with Linux on the desktop.

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