End of Windows 10 Leaves PC Charities With Tough Choice (tomshardware.com) 38
With Microsoft ending free security updates for Windows 10 in October, millions of PCs that don't meet Windows 11's hardware requirements face an uncertain fate... Charities that refurbish and distribute computers to low-income individuals must choose between providing soon-to-be-insecure Windows 10 machines, transitioning to Linux -- despite usability challenges for non-tech-savvy users -- or recycling the hardware, contributing to ewaste. Tom's Hardware reports: So how bad will it really be to run an end-of-lifed Windows 10? Should people worry? [Chester Wisniewski, who serves as Director and Global Field CISO for Sophos, a major security services company] and other experts I talked to are unequivocal. You're at risk. "To put this in perspective, today [the day we talked] was Patch Tuesday," he said. "There were 57 vulnerabilities, 6 of which have already been abused by criminals before the fixes were available. There were also 57 in February and 159 in January. Windows 10 and Windows 11 largely have a shared codebase, meaning most, if not all, vulnerabilities each month are exploitable on both OSs. These will be actively turned into digital weapons by criminals and nation-states alike and Windows 10 users will be somewhat defenseless against them."
So, in short, even though Windows 10 has been around since 2015, there are still massive security holes being patched. Even within the past few weeks, dozens of vulnerabilities were fixed by Microsoft. So what's a charity to do when these updates are running out and clients will be left vulnerable? "What we decided to do is one year ahead of the cutoff, we discontinued Windows 10," said Casey Sorensen, CEO of PCs for People, one of the U.S.'s largest non-profit computer refurbishers. "We will distribute Linux laptops that are 6th or 7th gen. If we distribute a Windows laptop, it will be 8th gen or newer." Sorensen said that any PC that's fifth gen or older will be sent to an ewaste recycler.
[...] Sorensen, who founded the company in 1998, told us that he's comfortable giving clients computers that run Linux Mint, a free OS that's based on Ubuntu. The latest version of Mint, version 22.1, will be supported until 2029. "Ten years ago if we distributed Linux, they would be like what is it," he said. But today, he notes that many view their computers as windows to the Internet and, for that, a user-friendly version of Linux is acceptable. Further reading: Is 2025 the Year of the Linux Desktop?
So, in short, even though Windows 10 has been around since 2015, there are still massive security holes being patched. Even within the past few weeks, dozens of vulnerabilities were fixed by Microsoft. So what's a charity to do when these updates are running out and clients will be left vulnerable? "What we decided to do is one year ahead of the cutoff, we discontinued Windows 10," said Casey Sorensen, CEO of PCs for People, one of the U.S.'s largest non-profit computer refurbishers. "We will distribute Linux laptops that are 6th or 7th gen. If we distribute a Windows laptop, it will be 8th gen or newer." Sorensen said that any PC that's fifth gen or older will be sent to an ewaste recycler.
[...] Sorensen, who founded the company in 1998, told us that he's comfortable giving clients computers that run Linux Mint, a free OS that's based on Ubuntu. The latest version of Mint, version 22.1, will be supported until 2029. "Ten years ago if we distributed Linux, they would be like what is it," he said. But today, he notes that many view their computers as windows to the Internet and, for that, a user-friendly version of Linux is acceptable. Further reading: Is 2025 the Year of the Linux Desktop?
"soon-to-be-insecure"... (Score:1)
This is what makes "security" folks not trustworthy.
Re: (Score:2)
Pin this so we can make fun of you when more and more bot nets appear. SMFH.
They should just install Linux and get over it. Microsoft abandon them to force new hardware sales and further control.
Re: "soon-to-be-insecure"... (Score:2)
Re:"soon-to-be-insecure"... (Score:4, Informative)
An OS that regularly experiences security vulnerabilities, will most certainly continue to have new vulnerabilities discovered, and will no longer receive security updates is in fact insecure.
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An OS that regularly experiences security vulnerabilities, will most certainly continue to have new vulnerabilities discovered, and will no longer receive security updates is in fact insecure.
And is insecure now and always has been.
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And is insecure now and always has been.
False. Insecurity changes over time based on the vulnerabilities discovered. As they are discovered they are patched out meaning the level of insecurity is low. If on the other hand patching stops that level of insecurity will rise over time.
as if currently supported means secure (Score:1)
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Example, the world uses checkpoint, cisco, Palo alto, offense, and others who all sell "all in one" systems that contain L2
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IT sec should have been a title for people with 5-10 years of system level engineering who turned their focus to security.
As always the market expanded much faster than the talent pool, so companies end up having to hire whoever they can...
You get "security tests" where they only test the front door, they never consider the possibility of other attack vectors. They want a vulnerability scan of a particular server and don't even consider that there will be indirect ways to access it that won't even be touched by this scan.
You're right about sales, because that's where the money is... You don't make money simplifying a system to
Let them use WIndows (Score:1)
In time all who se windows will be broke, fired for not protecting company assets, and looking for jobs.
But they won't know linux "Because it didn't look like Windows I ignored it."
Linux devs and admins rejoice watching this luddite train hurtle down a gentle hill.
You can learn how to use Linux now, or the inevitable is just Darwinism.
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XFCE comes to mind, though KDE Plasma might be even better. Toss on LibreOffice and FireFox and I'd bet that more than a few people wouldn't even notice that they weren't using Windows.
Kids are the exception, of course. They'll have it figured out the instant they discover that Roblox doesn't work anymore.
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Isn't FireFox still on the naughty list?
Customer choices (Score:2)
When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
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It's not really customers though. It's what the charities decide to do. Do they leave the existing Win10 installed and pass the risks to the new users? Do they destroy the computers? Or do they install a Linux distro on each?
It more or less comes down to are they willing to put the effort in to install Linux vs just giving up on their efforts altogether.
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Maybe MS will offer a free W11 upgrade?
Even if they do, the W10 laptops will probably not run W11 very well.
Most of these PCs aren't compatible (Score:3)
Last I checked, Microsoft had offered an upgrade without charge to users of licensed Windows 10 on a PC compatible with Windows 11. The problem is that a lot of PCs that run Windows 10 contain components too old to ever be fully compatible with Windows 11. Any PC running Windows 10 that had previously been upgraded from Windows 7 or 8.1 surely isn't compatible.
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I found major vulnerability vector being e-mail: bad things can be delivered right to the desktop trough the mail client, activated by clicking. Other than that, there never was perfect security, nor can be. All the efforts to keep devices in patched state are welcome, yet plenty of machines on Win7 being around without critical unusability does set the precedent. I'd say, just give away machines you don't see fit your bar as they are - for parts, non-critical deployments, whatever. Place sticker of securit
Forced Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:3)
individuals must choose between providing soon-to-be-insecure Windows 10 machines, transitioning to Linux
It would be a huge ironic self-own if Microsoft's arbitrary hardware requirements for Windows 11 ushered in a substantial "Year of the Linux Desktop" using older, but still very useful systems no longer capable of running - I mean, allowed to run - Windows. Practically, it wouldn't make dent in Windows usage, but perhaps symbolically.
I know I'll be switching from using my Windows 10 system (Dell XPS-420, 8GB RAM) to my Linux Mint 22 (Cinnamon) system (DIY: ASRock Z77 Extreme3, Intel i7-3770, 32GB RAM) full-time before October. The XPS-420 will probably also run Linux quite well then...
I think microsoft wants this (Score:2)
That can be the only reason Windows 11 looks like a garbage linux desktop environment.
ChromeOS Flex (Score:4, Insightful)
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I was gonna say.
But frankly, once installed, Ubuntu is pretty usable for basic tasks. It only gets hard if you want to do something beyond the basics.
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Most of the recycled PC charities use Ubuntu on the PCs they sell. This is because the OEM windows license is already iffy - you may or may not be able to sell a PC using a recycled windows license. So most just avoid the issue by instally Ubuntu.
For basic tasks - which is why you probably went to a recycled PC facility in the first place, it works well enough. And people who go there to pick up parts and other stuff, they probably have enough skills to use it properly or install Windows themselves.
You Only Need Windows For Games (Score:1)
And since businesses don't play games then install Linux and move on down the road. Then in your spare time you can still play games on Linux ;)
Linux (Score:2)
I'm not some Linux on the desktop evangelist, but realistically if the hardware is artificially being locked out of running Windows 11 and their purpose is to recycle PC's then switching to Linux is obvious.
And honestly in today's world if you're not gaming its not really a big deal. Most stuff that the average user does is web based anyways. Chromebooks have proven that many people just need a working web browser.
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Yup, Linux Mint 22 has security patch support until April 2029. It'll run faster than Windows 10 ever did.
Will Windows 11 be any more secure? (Score:1)
Microsoft is always patching security problems. MS will patching up W11 soon. Windows is never fully and finally patched. So what's the difference?
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The difference is that Microsoft is leaving known defects in Windows 10 without a public patch. Security researchers analyze changes to Windows that Microsoft releases through updates to Windows 11, and then intruders check if Windows 10 has the same defect, and if so, weaponize the defect into an exploit.
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Microsoft is always patching security problems. MS will patching up W11 soon. Windows is never fully and finally patched. So what's the difference?
Insecurity is dependent on knowledge. Knowledge of security problems changes over time. Patching brings down insecurity, knowledge raises it. The two fight each other over the life of the product.
Once the produce reaches end of life and is no longer patched, knowledge of security problems increases without a commensurate patching closing the holes objectively raising the insecurity of the OS as ways of exploiting it become more widely known. That's the difference.
Security is not an arbitrary yes or no. It's
Ubuntu For The Win! (Score:2)
Linux for end users (Score:1)
Why are people still saying that Linux is not good for end users? It's perfectly easy to use. If you can use Windows, you can use Linux. I assume configuration is pretty different, but if you just want to use a Web browser and an office suite, what is wrong with Linux Mint would sufficing for almost everyone?
This is true, I had my mom using Debian 3.1 20 years ago. She used it for years and didn't need my help it. She said it was "just so reliable". Meanwhile she got malware on the Windows XP computer
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Why are people still saying that Linux is not good for end users? It's perfectly easy to use.
Do you ride a motorcycle to work instead of a car? Why not, it's perfectly easy to use. The question isn't ease of use, it's expectations. Users who buy a computer at a charity expecting them to run like the one they have at home would rightly be pissed when they get it and their operating system doesn't run Outlook or their kids games.
Put Linux on them (Score:2)
It's a charitable computer and not meant to be a gaming computer replacement, meaning that what Linux (such as Mint) can offer is more than enough for every day tasks. As a bonus the charities won't have to deal with Microsoft and their refurbishment licenses. Getting more people on Linux is something that is sorely needed given Microsoft's horrible Windows track record that just keeps getting worse. A well set up Linux box will serve an average user just fine.
MICROS~1 FUD 2025 .. (Score:2)
I've put people down in front of a Linux Desktop and they can't tell the difference.
Simple answer (Score:2)
I've passed on loads of older PCs and laptops to non-tech-savvy users. I simply install the latest Debian, set it to auto-update, add a couple of shortcuts on the dock and away they go. Most of them aren't even aware that they have a different operating system apart from the fact that it gives them far less trouble. All they want to do is access the web and their e-mails and compose the odd letter.