China Summons Top Carmakers Over 'Zero-Mileage' Used Vehicles 56
An anonymous reader shares a report: China's Ministry of Commerce is meeting with some of the country's biggest automakers to discuss whether the industry is using a loophole to mask weakening sales. Reuters adds: It comes after Great Wall Motor's Chairman Wei Jianjun said in an interview with Sina Finance last week that a phenomenon called "secondhand cars with zero mileage" had emerged in the Chinese market as a result of the industry's years-long price war.
The phenomenon, he said, involved cars that had been registered and had licence plates -- marking them as sold -- but had never been driven being sold in the secondhand market. Wei said that at least 3,000 to 4,000 vendors on Chinese used car platforms were selling such cars. The source said the tactic was seen as a potential method within the industry for automakers and dealers to support new car sales as they try to meet aggressive sales targets.
The phenomenon, he said, involved cars that had been registered and had licence plates -- marking them as sold -- but had never been driven being sold in the secondhand market. Wei said that at least 3,000 to 4,000 vendors on Chinese used car platforms were selling such cars. The source said the tactic was seen as a potential method within the industry for automakers and dealers to support new car sales as they try to meet aggressive sales targets.
Cheat Better (Score:1)
Stupid executives forgot to have employees drive them around to put miles on them.
Re: Cheat Better (Score:1)
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Huh? If the Chinese govt. was in on this they wouldn't need to even bother making the extra cars .. they could just register ghost cars.
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it's not as simple as that... The thing is that the pressure happens at multiple levels of government and multiple levels of corporations.
An example from the US that had a lot of this was the Wells Fargo account opening scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_cross-selling_scandal ) though that was just at the level of a single company, not industry wide.
Not the in the US people don't channel stuff, kick the can down the road etc, but it seems to be a lot more common in places where saying no to
Tags and Plates. (Score:2, Interesting)
Normally in China all this costs extra and sometimes you have to pay a lot or enter a lottery system in which you don't even know if you will get a license plate. By having these already and transferable, could this just make it easier for first time buyers to buy a car in China.
Genius (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Genius (Score:4)
There's a saying in China, "If you can cheat, then cheat."
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Rather like the US corporate decision process. Perhaps also Europe, as Volkswagen comes to mind.
Re: Genius (Score:2)
Should those who live in glass houses throw stones?
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Well, at the very least they should fuck in the cellar.
Re:Genius (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, the Brazilian government makes profits from their oil industry, whereas in America corporations do. Win some, lose some.
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The correct meaning is actually the exact opposite of what you claim: https://chinese.stackexchange.... [stackexchange.com]
It's a negative remark about someone's behaviour, not encouragement or advice. Some idiot blogger misunderstood it and now idiot Westerners think it's true.
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There's a saying in China, "If you can cheat, then cheat."
I don't feel comfortable throwing that stone right now
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We can't afford to admit to the CEO or the Politburo that we failed to meet our new EV sales target. So let's report new EV's as being sold, and then resell them as used vehicles in the secondhand market. Surely that won't have any impact on our ability to meet our new EV sales target.
That's next year's problem; and in the meantime i'll still have a job for another year. Or maybe i'll be able to find a job elsewhere in the meantime.
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We can't afford to admit to the CEO or the Politburo that we failed to meet our new EV sales target.
I read both the Bloomberg and the Reuters articles linked in the summary, and there is no mention of EVs. Most companies mentioned in the article - BYD, Great Wall, Dongfeng Motors - produce both EV and hybrid/ICE vehicles. The only pure EV manufacturer in the articles (Leapmotor) is a relatively small startup, and it was only mentioned tangentially, because its stock suffered losses. There is no mention whether Leapmotor was summoned to discussions.
It looks like your EV reference is a hallucination. Either
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Welcome to the industry. Seriously this happens all over the place. It's amazing how Tesla pulled a shitton of sales out of its arse in Canada just before the EV credits expired. The entire auto industry is full of these kinds of number games.
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Frontloading sales happens all the time, and then the company has to deal with lower sales for the rest of the year. This is how the executives make their money, they dump shares between when the results are released and when the forecast for the rest of the year is released.
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They probably got the idea from Europe. At least in the UK this is very common practice. Go on a site like Auto Trader UK and search for vehicles with less than 100 miles on the clock. There are thousands of what they call "pre-registered" cars which count towards quotas for things like sales of EVs. The dealer registers the vehicle to itself so technically the buyer is the second owner, although some manufacturers allow the warranty to start when the customer takes it anyway.
It works because the official l
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They probably got the idea from Europe. At least in the UK this is very common practice. Go on a site like Auto Trader UK and search for vehicles with less than 100 miles on the clock. There are thousands of what they call "pre-registered" cars which count towards quotas for things like sales of EVs. The dealer registers the vehicle to itself so technically the buyer is the second owner, although some manufacturers allow the warranty to start when the customer takes it anyway.
That doesn't seem to be the same thing. Say I can buy a brand new car for 30,000. The seller would like to sell more, but if they drop the price to 27,000 then the get 3,000 less per car. Not good. So they sell me an officially "used" car for 27,000. Most people pay 30,000; but there are some who find 30,000 too expensive and live with a "used" car saving 3,000.
The difference is that these cars are actually sold to real customers, who drive these cars for real. They are not parked somewhere in a hidden c
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It sounds like these guys are doing exactly the same. Have the dealer buy the car so it counts as a sale, and then sell it "used" with zero miles on the clock.
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We can't afford to admit to the CEO or the Politburo that we failed to meet our new EV sales target. So let's report new EV's as being sold, and then resell them as used vehicles in the secondhand market. Surely that won't have any impact on our ability to meet our new EV sales target.
Who mentioned EVs?
They could also be failing to sell their ICE variants. Great Wall as mentioned in the fine summary mainly produces ICE or PHEV, either hideous pickups or even uglier SUVs. Only their Ora brand produces BEVs and a grand total of 3 models.
I think it's more a sign that the Chinese economic juggernaut is juddering to a halt (to be fair, this is just the latest sign, it's been happening for years and China has been trying to ignore it).
Great Wall Motors (Score:2)
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Why did it fail so badly in Europe? It doesn't seem to be a complete failure in Australia. It isn't a huge success like the BYD Atto and Seal are, but it does sell.
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Better than western makers (Score:1, Flamebait)
Swasikars commit odometer fraud [arstechnica.com] to rip off customers.
Selling new cars as used is positively customer-friendly in comparison.
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Swasikars commit odometer fraud [arstechnica.com] to rip off customers.
Interesting. Shame about the forced arbitration agreements. I thought it was a fundamental right to sue people in USA?
Maybe California should prosecute Tesla for odometer fraud.
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Maybe California should prosecute Tesla for odometer fraud.
I'm sure CA will be happy to if any is found, but the claims in that lawsuit are outlandish and highly unlikely to be true.
Especially given how much many EV drivers scrutinize their range and energy usage and how much freakin' data collection there is in these cars, there's just no way something like this would not have been discovered by now.
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there's just no way something like this would not have been discovered by now.
If the stories are accurate, then something like this was in fact discovered by now, and that is what led to the articles being written.
Maybe you mean "there's no way something like this would not have been discovered before now", which would make more sense... but keep in mind that Teslas famously support over-the-air software updates, so it's technically trivial for any Tesla to have a 100% honest odometer on days 0-N, then receive a firmware update and have a "creative" odometer on day N+1, and a Tesla c
Re: Better than western makers (Score:2)
SOP in Australia (Score:4, Insightful)
In order to win the sales war Holden used to register cars at the end of the year.
Re:SOP in Australia (Score:4, Interesting)
In order to win the sales war Holden used to register cars at the end of the year.
And where is Holden (or the entire Australian car industry) now.
An case study in demanding government money to make products no-one wanted and expecting people to buy them because patriotism. Holden tried to sell the Commodore in the UK as a Vauxhall (VXR8) where it was too American for European tastes and in the US as a Pontiac (cant remember what the model name was) where it was too expensive for Americans despite selling it in both countries at a loss.
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They sold it in the USA as the GTO, which is a classic badge here. Arguably it was a pretty good match since it was powerful and RWD. People liked them but as you say, they cost too much.
The West lies again (Score:3, Insightful)
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Not really. This is par for the course in an industry that is dependent on arbitrary deadlines for reporting numbers. Tesla pulled an insane number of sales out of their arse in Canada just before the EV credits expired. You also see pre-registration "fraud" in that car companies register their new vehicles under their own name to declare them as sold just to get the figures up in a quarter (think about that next time you order a car and they have license plates ready to go for you on the day of enquiry (no
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The EU gives massive subsidies to its car makers too. I seem to remember the US bailed its auto manufacturers out more than once in the last couple of decades too. Then you have the wars to secure oil prices...
The difference is that the Chinese government didn't just give them free money to keep people in jobs or whatever, they set a strategic goal and achieved it. A goal that both massively boosted their economy and created a revolution in clean transportation technology. Why can't we do that?
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This is because we banned their EVs to save useless US/Euro car makers. How many sat untouched on your shores to prevent an EV revolution eradicating the US and German (and therefore EU) economies?
They produce ICE cars too... which are also not selling in the US or Eurozone.
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You claim "The West", but when you have the Chinese government subsidizing cars just to allow for very low prices, that is the perfect place where tariffs would normally be justified. It's not the same as "in the West" where governments pump money into auto makers who then keep the prices high just to increase their profits. The safety regulations in many "Western" nations are much more demanding than what you get out of China. These Chinese vehicles, do they have more than two airbags for the front a
Ford also... (Score:2)
Ford is selling "new/used" Mustang EVs at auction.
Truckloads of them are being dumped.
Overproduction risks (Score:1)
This burst of EV manufacturing capacity is similar to the overproduction of housing in China.
The big differences are: 1) EV's can be exported to willing buyers 2) EV's depreciate 3) EV's from bankrupt manufacturers will probably plumet in value due to the lack of support and parts
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Capitalism bad, it's not fair, etc etc
Ex Porsche buyers? (Score:2)