Mercedes-AMG to Drop Four-Cylinder for Inline-Sixes and V-8s (caranddriver.com) 43
"Mercedes-AMG is transitioning away from the four-cylinder plug-in hybrid powertrain," reports Car and Driver, "and back towards the inline-six and V-8 powertrains more traditionally associated with the brand."
That isn't to say that AMG had a change of heart concerning the merits of the four-cylinder powertrain, but rather that the automaker is responding to customer criticisms. "Technically, the four-cylinder is one of the most advanced drivetrains available in a production car. It's also right up there on performance. But despite this, it failed to resonate with our traditional customers. We've recognized that," a source at Mercedes told Autocar...
Car and Driver also spoke with AMG chief Michael Schiebe at the reveal of the AMG GT XX electric concept car... Although the four-cylinder may be on its way out, Schiebe did say AMG remains committed to plug-in hybrids. "There are a lot of advantages of combining electric motors with combustion engines," Schiebe said. "We want to offer different kinds of drivetrain opportunities on the combustion side to our customers, so they can choose for whatever purpose they want to use the car."
Much of the criticism of the C63 and GLC63's powertrain was focused on the lackluster sound when compared with the symphony of a V-8. The M139 drew our ire for sounding "reedy" and "buzzy" in our test of the current C63. The C63's hybrid system also brings the car's curb weight up to nearly 5000 pounds, meaning it didn't provide a meaningful performance boost over its V-8 predecessor despite offering significantly more horsepower....
AMG wouldn't confirm exactly when the four-cylinder will be phased out, telling Autocar that it will remain in production for the time being before "eventually" being replaced.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader sinij for sharing the news.
Car and Driver also spoke with AMG chief Michael Schiebe at the reveal of the AMG GT XX electric concept car... Although the four-cylinder may be on its way out, Schiebe did say AMG remains committed to plug-in hybrids. "There are a lot of advantages of combining electric motors with combustion engines," Schiebe said. "We want to offer different kinds of drivetrain opportunities on the combustion side to our customers, so they can choose for whatever purpose they want to use the car."
Much of the criticism of the C63 and GLC63's powertrain was focused on the lackluster sound when compared with the symphony of a V-8. The M139 drew our ire for sounding "reedy" and "buzzy" in our test of the current C63. The C63's hybrid system also brings the car's curb weight up to nearly 5000 pounds, meaning it didn't provide a meaningful performance boost over its V-8 predecessor despite offering significantly more horsepower....
AMG wouldn't confirm exactly when the four-cylinder will be phased out, telling Autocar that it will remain in production for the time being before "eventually" being replaced.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader sinij for sharing the news.
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The Chinese are betting on a market for high end EREV sedans with some eco banger to charge the large battery when needed. I think they will be right and Mercedes drawing the wrong conclusion from their hybrid failure is going to cost them double.
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It's a thing here in California to buy bigger name European cars, leave it parked in a dark alley overnight, and the next day drive it off with no muffler so that you can be extra loud and obnoxious. BMW, Mercedes, you name it. And then after that, be an even more obnoxious asshole by driving even more aggressive than a typical Angelino and cutting everybody off.
Re:Resonate with customers (Score:4, Interesting)
The AMG badge typically meant you either had a tuned V8 or even V12. And it wasn't for drag racing or making noise. It meant you wanted to cruise comfortably at 155+ on the autobahn. They had a nice respectable sound. The badge started to get watered down with AMG packages only having some fancy wheels. It's still amusing to me how many Cannonball run times were set with German sedans.
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Allow us to educate you [youtube.com]
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you wanted to cruise comfortably at 155+ on the autobahn.
Except nobody actually does that.
Tell us you've never been on the autobahn without actually saying it.
C-63 (Score:2)
I think that the C63 AMG which is now a hybrid 4-banger has sold very very poorly.
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The AMG badge typically meant you either had a tuned V8 or even V12. And it wasn't for drag racing or making noise. It meant you wanted to cruise comfortably at 155+ on the autobahn.
They days you can do that with a not particularly advanced six, or a high end four. Modern four cylinder engines make over 400HP with turbocharging, and an engine with 300HP is more than enough to do speeds like that. The idea that you need a V8 or V12 to cruise at 155 is nonsense. (The four would be loud, but a good straight six would be fine, and since hoods are getting longer again there's room.)
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The AMG badge typically meant you either had a tuned V8 or even V12. And it wasn't for drag racing or making noise. It meant you wanted to cruise comfortably at 155+ on the autobahn.
They days you can do that with a not particularly advanced six, or a high end four. Modern four cylinder engines make over 400HP with turbocharging, and an engine with 300HP is more than enough to do speeds like that. The idea that you need a V8 or V12 to cruise at 155 is nonsense. (The four would be loud, but a good straight six would be fine, and since hoods are getting longer again there's room.)
I presume we're talking mph and not kph. My V-6 matched to an 8-speed sounds overly loud at the legal limit of 80mph. I can't imagine listening to that thing at 155mph for any length of time... at least not in any "comfortably cruising" sense.
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A couple more cylinders aren't going to move the needle on that. The remedy would be something else, like tuning differently, or adding features to the intake or exhaust to kill sound. Your V6 is also a lot louder than an L6 potentially can be.
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The only thing that resonates is the empty brains of vroom-vroom lovers.
And those who had to drive up a hill. Or merge onto a highway safely. Who think that a lawn mower engine with turbo is not a good fit for an auto. :-)
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For most people driving a car is a necessary hassle, please don't drive your overpowered overpriced car like a race car on public roads. Merging is only an issue if you don't know how to drive and share the road. Of course the drivers we often merge with don't know how to drive and share the
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The 1960s are calling you, those problems were mostly gone by the late 70s for every car made.,
No, those problems with reintroduced with 4cyl engines far smaller than their 70s counterparts, trying to make up the difference with turbo. Similar with hybrids. If the batteries are too low to contribute to power and the engine charging them, they start sucking too.
I say mostly because cheap economy cars are still a necessity as our society is getting even more imbalanced financially.
If you want to argue for the necessity of the tradeoff, fine. But argue that performance has not take a hit, sorry.
Merging is only an issue if you don't know how to drive and share the road.
Nope. Merging is safer if you have excess power to give yourself options. A lack of power limits those options and may force you
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And those who had to drive up a hill. Or merge onto a highway safely.
What a load of bunk.
The 0-60 time of my base-model mid-sized family sedan with a naturally aspirated 4-banger beats the 350 cubic inch 4bbl equipped muscle car that I had 45 years ago. It has no problem merging onto highways.
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The 0-60 time of my base-model mid-sized family sedan with a naturally aspirated 4-banger ...
And is it the 2.0L'ish size I am referring to? A 4cyl can be OK, even in the 80s, depending on climate. But they are starting to get ridiculous in some models nowadays. Hybrids having some problems too when the battery are too low to supply power and are charging.
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... beats the 350 cubic inch 4bbl equipped muscle car that I had 45 years ago.
1980s V8s were a unique mess. Compromised to hell to meet emissions and mileage standards. Late 1990s and 2000s V8s, that's when they got good again.
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Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters (Score:1)
Who voted this submission up?
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Hey I do my part and submit stories. Like this one.
https://www.404media.co/ice-ta... [404media.co]
Or this one
https://www.theverge.com/gadge... [theverge.com]
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Hold on a moment, I'll ask your mom.
Please dear lord, .... (Score:2)
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I owned a Volvo with their inline 6 engine and it was great. Ran smooth and the seats were super comfortable. Unfortunately the rest of the car was garbage with numerous leaking fluids, electrical problems, and rotted rubber hoses in the emissions control systems. Also had an old Jaguar with the famous 4.2L and it was equally nice to drive.
My daily driver now is an Alfa Romeo and they managed to squeeze 280hp from a 4 cylinder engine. It’s fast enough to be fun but it’s certainly not smooth unde
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I have an old BMW inline 6, no turbo
I have a new BMW inline 6. 3.0 liter, alloy block and heads, forged crank, closed deck twin cam, 24 valve, twin scroll turbocharged, liquid to air intercooled, direct injected, variable valve timing and lift. Growing up with carbureted American V-8s I could only dream of such technology as a kid. EVs simply hold no such fascination, the lack of complexity that makes electric motors simple and reliable also makes them boring.
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Peak power vs average power (Score:1)
Was looking into a hybrid toyota suv a while back.
Gas engine was standard 6 cyl 270 hp.
Hybrid was a 4 cyl 180 hp plus 60 hp motor.
Not much of a difference in peak power but quite a bit of difference once the battery runs out and some of that 180 from the gas engine needs to be bled off to charge it up.
Not an issue with city driving but not that great with overtaking on a slight uphill grade at highway speeds.
Remember test driving a 4 cyl gas toyota suv with the wife a few years back. Tried it on one of thes
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Toyota 6s had sludge issues.
Re: Peak power vs average power (Score:2)
Re: Peak power vs average power (Score:1)
If the gas engine is sized right the ecvt is theoretically superior. If the ecvt and battery are an excuse to cheap out on the engine then they're only good for city driving and highways on flat terrain.
Kinda like "fix it in software" only makes up for hardware deficiencies 9 times out of 10, and if your use case is that last 10% you're SOL because some beancounter insisted that the arithmetic is representative of all reality, not just some of it.
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..., since people keep insisting hybrids have no drawbacks. If they can't go up a hill then they are going to take a dangerously long time to accelerate to passing speed on a single lane highway.
hybrids are fine for that, especially the passing which is https://youtube.com/watch?v=vR...
these dudes do a 100mile loop on some highways around Denver towing 4000lbs a Ford Maverick Hybrid. the ice on that setup maxes out at a whoping 168HP (at sea level so prob less up there). my point isn't that it's a great towing rig, but get rid of the trailer and do you really need more in a general use car?
also note that the parent was talking (I think) about just the normal Toyota 4cyl SUV being gutless, whic
Re: Peak power vs average power (Score:2)
Not much of a difference in peak power but quite a bit of difference once the battery runs out and some of that 180 from the gas engine needs to be bled off to charge it up. Not an issue with city driving but not that great with overtaking on a slight uphill grade at highway speeds.
He is talking about a hybrid.
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4 v 6 v 8 (Score:3)
4 is efficient. 6 is smooth. 8 is loud. All can make lots of power with turbos and more with hybrids.
And they all suck compared to evs.
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4 is efficient. 6 is smooth. 8 is loud. All can make lots of power with turbos and more with hybrids.
And they all suck compared to evs.
My other car has 8 cylinders and is quieter... much quieter... than my 6. Both were tuned for comfort. Oh, and both are quieter than those silly alien spaceship sounding EVs. Explain that?
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