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China The Military

China Successfully Tests Hypersonic Aircraft, Maybe At Mach 12 (theregister.com) 104

Posted by BeauHD from the full-of-feats dept.
China's Northwestern Polytechnical University successfully tested a hypersonic aircraft called Feitian-2, claiming it reached Mach 12 and achieved a world-first by autonomously switching between rocket and ramjet propulsion mid-flight. The Register reports: The University named the craft "Feitian-2" and according to Chinese media the test flight saw it reach Mach 12 (14,800 km/h or 9,200 mph) -- handily faster than the Mach 5 speeds considered to represent hypersonic flight. Chinese media have not detailed the size of Feitian-2, or its capabilities other than to repeat the University's claim that it combined a rocket and a ramjet into a single unit. [...] The University and Chinese media claim the Feitian-2 flew autonomously while changing from rocket to ramjet while handling the hellish stresses that come with high speed flight.

This test matters because, as the US Congressional Budget Office found in 2023, hypothetical hypersonic missiles "have the potential to create uncertainty about what their ultimate target is. Their low flight profile puts them below the horizon for long-range radar and makes them difficult to track, and their ability to maneuver while gliding makes their path unpredictable." "Hypersonic weapons can also maneuver unpredictably at high speeds to counter short-range defenses near a target, making it harder to track and intercept them," the Office found.

Washington is so worried about Beijing developing hypersonic weapons that the Trump administration cited the possibility as one reason for banning another 27 Chinese organizations from doing business with US suppliers of AI and advanced computing tech. The flight of Feitian-2 was therefore a further demonstration of China's ability to develop advanced technologies despite US bans.

China Successfully Tests Hypersonic Aircraft, Maybe At Mach 12 More | Reply

China Successfully Tests Hypersonic Aircraft, Maybe At Mach 12

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    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      They have actually had hypersonic spy drones in service since 2019, so it shouldn't really be any surprise that they are developing the technology rapidly on their own.

    • Re:I guess, the 'banning' didn't work then (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2025 @07:54AM (#65490786)

      Not enough information to tell if the news is real or not.

      Not enough information to tell if it even flew.

      I'd hold my horses until something more substantial pops up.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        You expect orange jesus to admit that China is rapidly advancing in aerospace and rocketry? He's too busy rage tweeting in all caps at 3AM and not reading intelligence reports. He never read them during his last term. https://www.politico.com/news/... [politico.com]

        • No, I expect to see Chinese sources that have more than two or three propaganda lines.

          I'm sure they are putting a lot of effort in development of these things, but from what I've seen in my area of interest, they are still kind of far from the state of the art.

          So I ask for evidence for the claims that are made. None in TFA and the linked sources.

      • Re:I guess, the 'banning' didn't work then (Score:5, Insightful)

        by packrat0x ( 798359 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2025 @08:40AM (#65490842)

        China's (likely) false story is being paraded by Washington so defense contractors can make more money. When three liars lie, it must be true!

        • Yes, this is quite possible.

          We know that the military capability of the Soviet Union was significantly exaggerated by the US government to justify the enormous spending on nuclear weapons in the '60, '70 and '80s.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        We defeated ourselves on this one. The scepticism is so strong when it comes to China that people dismiss everything. Then when it's driving past their house they claim it was built with slave labour. And finally they buy one because it's cheaper and better than what the domestic manufacturers produce.

        Even the military isn't immune. Everything is an inferior copy and doesn't work, until in a few years time, probably in some export market, one zooms overhead.

        • The scepticism is so strong when it comes to China that people dismiss everything.

          Aww, dear, don't be so dramatic, please. There is absolutely nothing to dismiss or discuss here. This is a zero-information post about something that might or might not have happened.

          Let's wait for a more detailed account of this proposed technological achievement, hopefully with a video and some details, and then we can see if we can form informative or insightful opinions.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            The US government takes it seriously enough to sanction the university that did this. It has a solid record in this kind of technology, being involved in earlier hypersonic vehicles that it has been confirmed that China has actually deployed,

          • Do you know the fastest EV on the Nurburgring is now a Chinese EV? https://www.motor1.com/news/76... [motor1.com]

            That wasn't a fluke.

            • Yep, saw that yesterday. Quite impressive, and really should give the automakers pause.

            • So buy one.

              I'll keep my id.buzz and my hybrid Toyota for the time being.

              Last time I cared about "the fastest car in the world" it was Lancia Stratos.

              Then I learned there are more important things to look for in a car. Boring shit, like how safe it is, how often it breaks, is it comfortable, does it survive its first mild winter without rusting. These are still things that the Chinese EVs tend to have a hard time with.

              Priorities, they differ among people.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

                So buy one.

                Xiaomi plans to build just 100 examples of the SU7 Ultra Nürburgring edition, priced from 814,900 Chinese Yuan, or around $114,000. Like all Chinese-branded vehicles, you won't be able to purchase this one in the United States.

                Yeah ok.

              • The point is the prejudice that China is only capable of making cheap garbage is proven false.

        • No the skepticism should be the default for any time someone makes a claim. If a US contractor said they reached Mach 12 with an airplane, I would be skeptical because as far as I know only NASA's experimental aircraft have only hit Mach 9.6. The X-43 however did not take off on its own power as many of the NASA's hypersonic planes had to carried to altitude then dropped. Now if you looked at the article, their "plane" was put on top of a rocket. Rockets like Arian 5 can go up to Mach 30 so . . yeah. JWST
        • War is also fought and won in the information or dis-information sphere ... propaganda... history is written by the victors. So I agree with you, we usually get a distorted view from our own people, for reasons... arms makers want to make arms... militaries want their budget to grow... politicians what to inflame the masses and stay in office so they don't go to jail --- like the Orange One and Bibi.

          Military strategists agree that it is a mistake to underestimate your enemy. Sun Tzu said that... 2500 years

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

            Wars are not won in the information sphere. It's won through logistics.

            We are not at war. That is why propaganda is so important to get people to support the cause. If bombs were falling on our heads instead of half a world away, propaganda would be unnecessary. Conversely, if you were a resident of Bakhmut, no amount of propaganda will allow you to return to the city.

            • Sun Tzu would disagree. We are always at war.

              "There is no doubt the enemy is coming. Only the time and place are unknown."

              He would disagree on the propaganda comment too.

              "One need not destroy one's enemy. One need only destroy his willingness to engage."
        • It's rocket-powered. This isn't even remotely impressive.
          Even the transition to a ramjet isn't particularly impressive, and I'm not sure why it's being called a world-first.
          NASA transitioned from rocket to hypersonic scramjet propulsion in the early 2000s with the X-43.

      • “Not enough information to tell if the news is real or not. Not enough information to tell if it even flew.”

        Ah, the subtle art of strategic ambiguity, Wumao style. Funny how all the Wumao trolls come out of the woodwork when a Chinese state-controlled university releases just enough information to fire up global headlines but not quite enough for independent verification. Almost like it’s engineered that way.

        You’re not waiting for more data. You’re waiting to see which narrative wins — so you can align your position without risking embarrassment. Classic Wumao triangulation: hedge hard, qu

  • Autonomous Switching (Score:4, Funny)

    by dohzer ( 867770 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2025 @08:17AM (#65490808)

    by autonomously switching between rocket and ramjet propulsion mid-flight

    That's nothing. My electric kettle autonomously switches from 'ON' to 'OFF' mid-boil!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by zlives ( 2009072 )

      my spit uses autonomous switching to from accelerating away from earth to accelerating towards earth.

  • Time for laser guns (Score:3)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2025 @08:39AM (#65490840) Homepage

    "Hypersonic weapons can also maneuver unpredictably at high speeds to counter short-range defenses near a target"

    They can't beat the speed of light so perhaps its time to invest more into laser and microwave weapons rather than the half hearted attempts so far.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Oh noes, I hope nobody in China thinks of polishing the rocket walls to a mirror finish!

    • ... into laser ...

      Space-age weapons such as hyper-sonic bullets, instant-fry LASERs and microwave emitters require massive amounts of energy. In addition, light is easily damaged by the atmosphere, making it a short range weapon. It's why the US DoD has abandoned these technologies over the last few years: Nuclear bombs and cruise missiles cover the no-boots-on-the-ground gamut from genocide to sneak attacks. Space-age technology lacks the efficiency and effectiveness to provide the theoretically-possible 'instantaneous'

    • Hypersonic weapons are unlikely to really be maneuverable. The SR-71 which was about Mach 5 had a turning circle of 500 miles. They are also unlikely to be very accurate. Fine for attacking a target like a city, but not so much for something smaller and they are still slower than an ICBM.

      • Hypersonic weapons are unlikely to really be maneuverable. The SR-71 which was about Mach 5 had a turning circle of 500 miles.

        Well, to be fair, with the SR-71, you have to be careful not to kill any humans that are inside it. You don't have that problem with a missile.

        • True, but the biggest problem is just that anything going that fast takes a lot of power to change direction. It is simple physics, the faster you are going one direction, the more acceleration required to change it.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        [fast things] unlikely to be very accurate. Fine for attacking a target like a city, but not so much for something smaller and they are still slower than an ICBM.

        They could slow down when they get close to the target, or launch sub-missiles that slow down.

    • Pin-pointing a laser onto a moving target is getting progressively more difficult the faster the target is. Targeting optics need to be progressively faster and more precise to hit the object for the time needed to have the intended effect. And all the effect the laser it has is proportional to the energy it deposits per square centimeter onto the target. With more air passing by the object, even more energy is dissipated and with the faster speed, the total flight time in range of the laser is progressivel

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        I never said they'd be a replacement for missle defense, but they could be an addition to it. As for the enemy sending loads of the things - sure, thats exactly what russia is doing right now with drones in ukraine but you don't see the ukrainians sitting around saying "Meh, why bother". They shoot down as many as possible even though some get through because lives matter.

    • The "aeroballistic" hyperbolic Cringe-all* missiles that the ruzzkies are so proud of are "maneuvering unpredictably" in the "aero" phase of flight, where they are slow and fly like cruise missiles, but in the hypersonic ballistic phase they just fall along a ballistic curve.

      Which has allowed the Ukrainian air defenses to shoot quite a lot of them down successfully.

      * Or maybe it was "Kinzhal", I forget...

    • They are working on it:
      https://www.aerospacetestinginternational.com/news/defense/us-air-force-successfully-tests-anti-missile-laser-defence-system.html#prettyPhoto

    • They can't beat the speed of light so perhaps its time to invest more into laser and microwave weapons rather than the half hearted attempts so far.

      You are yaddeyaddering a lot of physics with that comment. We have invested in lasers and microwave weapons. They share two things in common: a) they are insanely large and impractical, and b) they cost orders of magnitude more than simply rebuilding what that missile hit. Neither of those are because the attempts have been half hearted.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        "they are insanely large and impractical,"

        You ever seen the size of an aircraft carrier?

        "they cost orders of magnitude more than simply rebuilding what that missile hit"

        Good luck rebuilding the people killed in it. Idiot.

    • Lasers have inherent limitations no matter how powerful you make them due to divergence. The most powerful 300kW laser that has been made has a limitation of a few 10s of kilometers. A distance the hypersonic vehicle will cross in about 5 seconds. Put reflective and sacrificial armor on it and you've circumvented the only thing that could hope to stop it aside from a nuclear detonation on yourself.

  • Yep, lots of that goes on there.

  • "Hypersonic weapons can also maneuver unpredictably at high speeds to counter short-range defenses near a target, making it harder to track and intercept them," the Office found."

    The Office "found" what the US has known since the 1950s, and was built in MARV form in the 1959 Alpha Draco project from 1957's WS-199 effort.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    All that is old is new again... and forgotten so we can claim its new *and bad*.

  • Antagonize, mock, and threaten 1 billion people who are kicking your ass in academics, because you're scared they'll pull ahead of you, instead of working together so you both advance, and then you find out what happens... oops.
    • We've been trying to work together for the last 50 years. China doesn't want to work together. China doesn't have that world view, they've been taking a zero-sum approach.

  • If, as I suspect, the rocket motor is what allowed them to reach such a high speed, that speed would only be able to be sustained for a few minutes.

  • Whether this Mach 12 thing is real or not, what we do know is that the US doesn't have any hypersonic missiles. Other countries do.

    So, the question I have is how did the US fuck this up and miss the boat?

    Sure, it's DEVELOPING stuff now. But we're way behind. How did that happen? Would be interesting to dig into that.

    • Do we know that? I don't think I'd feel safe in assuming that the public was fully aware of our military capabilities.

    • So, the question I have is how did the US fuck this up and miss the boat?

      By worrying more about drag queens and brown people doing kitchen prep work.

    • Whether this Mach 12 thing is real or not, what we do know is that the US doesn't have any hypersonic missiles.

      Apart from the LGM-30 Minuteman, which hits apparently Mach 23, and the Trident 2 which is similar. The US doesn't have any hypersonic glide vehicles, and probably won't until the end of FY2025, presuming the LRHW is deployed as planned.

      Sure, it's DEVELOPING stuff now. But we're way behind. How did that happen? Would be interesting to dig into that.

      The LRHW is quite far through development. They've

  • Banning sharing AI reminds me of when they tried to ban strong encryption. It didn't work and there were many workarounds including printing it on paper. Sorry, but you can't contain knowledge.

  • Can it also land on the sun, just like Kim Jong Un?

  • I'm guessing that China is trying to make the US overspend on defence R&D so as to cripple its budget elsewhere. Claim to have mach 12 missiles, even when you don't, and the US then has to spend many millions researching defences against mach 12 missiles. Rinse lather and repeat for many other areas, and the US spending massively dwarfs the cost of fabricated claims of progress.

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