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Meta Uses Open Source AI To Design Greener Concrete For Its Next Data Center (nerds.xyz) 51

Posted by msmash from the for-what-it's-worth dept.
BrianFagioli writes: Meta has partnered with Amrize and the University of Illinois to develop an "AI-optimized" concrete mix that cuts carbon by 35% for its new data center.

Meta Uses Open Source AI To Design Greener Concrete For Its Next Data Center More | Reply

Meta Uses Open Source AI To Design Greener Concrete For Its Next Data Center

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  • You used math. It's just called math. You lazy fucks had the AI do it for you but that doesn't mean it was designed by AI.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sims 2 ( 994794 )

      Does it cut carbon by 35% or does the AI say it cuts carbon by 35%? Assuming it does, does the new formula substituting in Elmer's glue actually hold up?

      I've noticed a lot of people even really really high level people are trusting what it says waaaaaay too much.

      • The AI is still faulty.

        Limecrete and Hempcrete exist and are far better than 35 % , they are carbon NEGATIVE!!!!.

        Why did the AI not suggest this ?

        We continue to stay on the path to extinction.

        • Re:No it's not (Score:4, Interesting)

          by DamnOregonian ( 963763 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @04:07PM (#65525370)

          The AI is still faulty.

          No.

          Limecrete and Hempcrete exist and are far better than 35 % , they are carbon NEGATIVE!!!!.

          They do, and they are.

          Why did the AI not suggest this ?

          Because they have terrible compressive strength, and are generally used as insulation, not load bearing, what was not what they were looking for.

          We continue to stay on the path to extinction.

          The Earth naturally sequesters and emits carbon in the various carbon cycles of varying lengths.
          It's not quite so simple to point at any single carbon emissive behavior and say "that there- that's leading us toward extinction!"
          The biggest target needs to be fossil fuels. But in the interim, less carbon-intensive concrete will help.

      • Does it cut carbon by 35% or does the AI say it cuts carbon by 35%?

        They replace about a third of the cement with fly ash.

        So, yes, that reduces carbon since it uses less cement.

        The fly ash comes from burning pulverized coal, so this technique won't work after coal is phased out.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Pascoea ( 968200 )

          The fly ash comes from burning pulverized coal, so this technique won't work after coal is phased out.

          Whew! Good thing we're "reinvesting" in coal, then, isn't it? /s

        • They replace about a third of the cement with fly ash. So, yes, that reduces carbon since it uses less cement. The fly ash comes from burning pulverized coal, so this technique won't work after coal is phased out.

          Pretty much all concrete uses aggregate. Fly ash is just one specific form of aggregate.

          Using fly ash in concrete is not new, though. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pavem... [dot.gov]

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Braken ( 713688 )
            Fly ash is a supplementary cementitious material (SCM), not an aggregate. Aggregates are your rock (coarse agg) and sand (fine agg). And you're correct, fly ash has been used for decades, and is a byproduct of burning coal. Other SCMs like ground granulated blast furnace slag have also been used for years. Both are commonly used in general blended cements or low heat cements, or where high durability is required in aggressive environments. A lot of "green concrete" is simply replacing cement (i.e. po
            • The article is trash, but it has links too the actual process that are good.

              What the "AI" did (Beyesian Optimizer, if we're being technically accurate) was help them find proportions that gave them an ideal trade-off between green and required compressive strength.

              The "AI" portion, is what is called the surrogate model. It stands in as a replacement for a physical simulation. It's highly accurate, even for unknown configurations, and requires a microscopic fraction of the power to give its answer.
              The B

            • Fly ash is a supplementary cementitious material (SCM), not an aggregate. .

              Correction noted; thanks.

      • that's the f'up thing about this whole thing.... the company in charge "estimates" it cuts carbon by 35%.... Why estimated? it is something one can actually measure and calculate... no reason for an estimate

        • Because different concrete blends have different amounts of Portland Cement in them, so there's no perfect baseline to compare against.
          As for the CO2/kg for this particular concrete- yes that is more or less precisely knowable.

          Also, FWIW- on the company's actual website, they don't say estimate- they say "at least 30%"
          But again- unless you precisely specify the concrete mix you're comparing it against, you can't really give a % decrease, and giving the precise mix is practically meaningless for anyone b

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by allo ( 1728082 )

      AI *is* math.

      Mind = Blown.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        No. AI of this variant is statistics with is a small part of Math and one that basically has no connection to concrete mixes.

        • As usual, entirely incorrect.
          It's a predictive model trained to be a surrogate for a physical simulation of compressive strength of concrete over time, based on its mix.

          You never get tired of being wrong. It's fucking incredible.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by allo ( 1728082 )

          And you seriously think statistics is no math?

          You already had better troll posts.

    • Nothing lazy about it.
      Bayesian optimization is good way to find better ways to do things if you have enough data to train a sound surrogate model.
      The alternative is a physical simulation which may require supercomputers to do reasonably.

  • or... (Score:3)

    by zlives ( 2009072 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @02:29PM (#65525190)

    you could not build it for 100% green plus the bonus for not actually burning more energy for AI porn generation.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by zlives ( 2009072 )

      also my understanding is this will be biggest center to date... 35 percent less of 200 percent bigger?

      • Growth happens either way.
        What's better, 0% less of 200% bigger, or 35% less of 200% bigger?

        You wouldn't think this would be a difficult math problem.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by zlives ( 2009072 )

          i am questioning the purpose of growth, sometimes obesity is just bad

          • Well, I mean that's just a general question to be asked of humanity in general, I think.

            What is the purpose of growth? Simple- we can't stop fucking. All other growth follows from that.
    • Assuming they can actually pull it off and it's not some kind of concrete limited to this particular data center, it seems like it lowers carbon by 35% for everyone else that can use it as well. I'm guessing that whatever they're doing isn't as economical as regular concrete or someone else would have already done this. Even if you don't give a single damn about the environment the amount of money to be made from green initiatives is staggering and this seems exactly like the sort of thing that could get a

      • Disclaimer - I'm not a concrete expert. But I do know that there are many varying grades and mixes of concretes depending on application. Sure, this may not be a fix for all concrete applications, but then no concrete formula is. That doesn't mean that lessons from this application can't be applied to others.

    • There exists concrete products already that are carbon negative.
      Hempcrete and Limecrete.

      You and the AI are both wrong.

      • No. They're both more educated than you.

        *crete is not a set of synonyms made from different things.
        They have a set of requirements, neither of which are met by the poor structural strength of limecrete and hempcrete.

    • Don't knock AI porn too soon... it eliminates human/child/sex trafficking needs and a whole shit ton of evil if porn was strictly/wholly AI generated...

      people will do what people will do... AI porn generation would reduce victims to a degree from the loop...

  • I used AI the other day to invent anti-gravity. A few weeks ago it helped me solve world hunger.

  • AI used more than the savings (Score:3)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @02:47PM (#65525232)

    Too bad using the AI was a non-green solution to a green problem. How many times over will the AI in that datacenter burn though the savings that the concrete created, in a day?

    What is the win from ditching the AI completely? You won't even need that datacenter, talk about going green.

    • Worse that its solution is wrong, and therefore a total waste of resources.
      Hempcrete and Limecrete are carbon negative ... ie waaaay better than 35% and these products are already commercially available.

      We are "Led by donkeys"

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Pascoea ( 968200 )
        Limecrete has a maximum compressive strength of around 2500PSI, but is typically lower than that. (Hempcrete is MUCH lower than that, around 500PSI) Limecrete may be suitable for things Sidewalks, Patios, or Residential floors, but it's not even close to strong enough for structural use (4000PSI-ish) or even something like a garage floor. Hempcrete is only good for insulation.
    • It's not known how green the use of the "AI" was.
      It was a surrogate model for a physical simulation- far cheaper in energy terms than a traditional physical simulation.
      Whether or not that was all cheaper than just using traditional concrete is a quite simple "Yes."
      Cooking limestone into calcium oxide emits 1 CO2 molecule per calcium oxide molecule. It's a fuck-ton.

  • The Iciocracy ... No need to do this. (Score:3)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @02:54PM (#65525240) Homepage Journal

    Hempcrete is carbon negative.
    If the AI doesnt reccommend this , then the AI is defective.

    Once again more bullshit and #greenwash from the worlds billionaire cretins.

    Heres a few citations in case you think im a loon.
    ( Im not ! thats the idiocracy )

    https://www.researchgate.net/p... [researchgate.net]

    https://www.researchgate.net/p... [researchgate.net]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    https://www.anthropocenemagazi... [anthropocenemagazine.org]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ffsnjb ( 238634 )

      You've commented multiple times about hempcrete in this story, while completely disregarding that (according to your own Wiki link) it is not fit for purpose, as it's not load-bearing. The majority of concrete in any build is in the slab, which is load-bearing by definition.

    • The AI didn't invent something ...

      What I'd like is some clever additive... such as carbonated water makes it better and greener concrete... and how it could be used for structural footings then a way to fill the rest with limecrete and foam blocks.

      • The Bayesian Optimization (including it model) zeroed in on a concrete with their basic requirements after being trained with the knowledge of existing concretes.
        Since we seem to be calling this particular Bayesian Optimizer "AI" (fine by me), the AI did, indeed, invent it.

    • During WW2, the Japanese mixed coconut fiber into concrete to make bunkers.

      The fibers reduced the amount of cement needed, and made the concrete more flexible so it was resilient to shelling.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      Jesus dude. Are you getting paid by "Big Hempcrete" to post this or something? Five comments with the exact same (under-informed) point?
  • This just confirmes that AI is going to save the world.

    • Unfortunately not

      Hempcrete exists and is carbon NEGATIVE.

      That the AI didnt suggest this proves your assertion that AI is going to save us is wholly incorrect

      In all honesty though that the AI didnt suggest either Hempcrete or Limecrete which are commercially available and CO2 negative tells us either that the AI is unfit for purpose or for some reason these products were deliberately excluded. It tells us that those who enlisted the services of the AI have been promoted to a high level of incompetence.

      There

  • I thought Meta had its own AI, given all the data its slurped up you would have thought they would dog food instead of farm out.
  • If they are simply reducing the strength to just barely meet the engineering requirements, that's a slippery slope. We aren't back in the days where everything was overbuilt. We are in the 'will it last through tomorrow and the check clears' days of construction.

    If they are increasing aggregate size to reduce the refined parts of the mix, that's also cause for concern.

    And if this new mix is kept as a trade secret, why are they hoarding information that could help save the world?

  • I've heard of carbon neutral cement before. I've heard of carbon negative cement before. There's been papers by Prof. Darryl Siemer on this, here's one I could ind with a quick web search: https://www.ecolo.org/document... [ecolo.org]

    That's not the best paper to describe his logic and goals, in part because it meanders about a bit and in part as it is more about CO2 sequestration by other means than by cement production, but it hopefully makes sense if you can tolerate reading it to the end.

    I remember him because of

    • You don't get lime from basalt.
      You could use crushed basalt as an additive (it does, after all have a lot of stuff in it that are already added to cement), but you cannot avoid the hydraulic lime, which you cannot get hydraulic lime without calcining some kind of limestone analogue.

      That doesn't mean you can't have low or negative carbon cement- after all, hydraulic lime must re-absorb the CO2 lost in the calcining, and by adding additional CO2 absorbers, you can actually push it negative.

      Basalt has bee

      • You don't get lime from basalt.

        A professor from Idaho State University says otherwise. The link I gave above points out that "average basalt" consists of 12.4% CaO. This "average basalt" also consists of 7.9% MgO that will form a carbonate like lime when exposed to air and water.

        You could use crushed basalt as an additive (it does, after all have a lot of stuff in it that are already added to cement), but you cannot avoid the hydraulic lime, which you cannot get hydraulic lime without calcining some kind of limestone analogue.

        I can be convinced to agree, and I stated something similar in my earlier comment. I'll consider the chemical composition of cement I found here: https://civiltoday.com/civil-e... [civiltoday.com] (I chose this source as it uses the chemical notation I'm familiar with than th

  • They lie when they say it creates more jobs and lie when they say it won't use much water / electricity !

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