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Transportation Software The Almighty Buck

Skipping Over-The-Air Car Updates Could Be Costly (autoblog.com) 83

Posted by BeauHD from the PSA dept.
Longtime Slashdot reader Mr_Blank shares a report from Autoblog: Once a new OTA update becomes available, owners of GM vehicles have 45 days to install the update. After this date, the company will not cover any damages or issues that are caused by ignoring the update. "Damage resulting from failure to install over-the-air software updates is not covered," states the warranty booklet for 2025 and 2026 models.

This same rule applies to all GM's brands in the USA: Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC. However, if the software update itself causes any component damage, that will be covered by the warranty. Owners coming from older GM vehicles will have to adapt as the company continues to implement its Global B electronic architecture on newer models, which relies heavily on OTA updates. Similar policies appear in the owner's manual for Tesla. Software-defined vehicles are here to stay, even if some of them have far more tech glitches than they should -- just ask Volvo.

Skipping Over-The-Air Car Updates Could Be Costly More | Reply

Skipping Over-The-Air Car Updates Could Be Costly

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  • No (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Akardam ( 186995 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @08:49PM (#65561532)

    Just... no. Do not want.

    • Re:No (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @11:21PM (#65561772)

      Well, it isn't like they're asking. They're telling.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Monoman ( 8745 )

        We all know eventually these updates will include a 'Terms of Service' update and nothing to do do with safety or performance. I suspect this will eventually go to court.

        • Sadly, yes, the "license 'IPR', not sell a product" lie turned out to be too profitable not to exploit.

          • The car companies are heading towards a place where you will get an "Ebook equivalent" license for cars.

            You may own the physical car, but the car company can force you to do software updates within X months or void your warranty.

            Then they will end of life the software updates after 10 years with large parts of your car becoming unworkable beyond the subscription model entertainment services, with test runs of losing heating and cooling of seats, losing collision detection, and eventually losing emission con

            • Just wait until the zipper becomes a "wearable" with a firmware that only lets you zip and unzip if you've paid your license for the year.

              • "Securitization" is the term here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

                The drive to isolate any activity or revenue stream into a security, borrow money against future expected revenue and sell that debt to investors is a net negative for society and quality of life.

                For cars, it is the proliferation of computers and aim to monetize any and all features in the car from entertainment systems, BMW (?) heated seats, and more.

                The "lack of ideas for innovation" in long-lived product lines, like cars, is a driving f

      • Well, it isn't like they're asking. They're telling.

        And I am not buying. See how that works?

        Car manufacturers around the world have at least some amount of the disease that infects American automakers; but holy shit. American car manufacturers are completely and irrevocably affected by the disease. I have no idea what to call it, but they are not making product for the consumer.

        • And I am not buying. See how that works?

          Yeah, about as well as "I'm buying that purism phone", "I'm rooting my samsung, not letting them have my data", "I'm running my home server for my email" and a bunch of other similar threats to the well-being of the large manufacturers, which never materialize.

          Stuff they ignore completely.

    • Re:No (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CaptQuark ( 2706165 ) on Saturday August 02, 2025 @01:13AM (#65561906)

      GM can say anything they want but actually denying coverage might be a different issue.

      This reminds me of the "breaking this seal voids your warranty" issue. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says it is illegal to void a consumer's warranty just because they used a non-original part or a repair center not affiliated with the OEM. This does not stop the companies from continuing to place the sticker on their products hoping to scare their customers into only using the manufacturer's parts and repair centers. Putting the stickers on the equipment, even though the information is wrong, is not illegal. Refusing to honor the warranty even if they find a broken sticker IS when it becomes illegal.

      GM might be hoping for the same results. "Damage resulting from failure to install over-the-air software updates is not covered," states the warranty booklet for 2025 and 2026 models. This might be defensible if they tell the customers this prior to purchasing the vehicle and assumed warranty and the owner agrees with this stipulation. Some states do not allow this type of modification to the warranty as it only benefits GM with no added benefit to the customer.

      GM might want every new customer to turn on OTA software updates so GM can modify many things that the car does and reports, but it might not actually have the power to refuse warranty repair based on that condition. Many states require the car manufacturer to repair emissions problems for the first seven years, so GM claiming they don't have to repair the vehicle because the owner refused an OTA update to change the turn signal flash rate might not be defensible.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It will depend what the updates are for. Shoving more ads in the car wouldn't void the warranty if you skipped it, but adjusting the engine parameters to avoid premature wear on some component might. The problem is they won't separate the two things, you have too have the adware to get the genuine fixes.

      • I am NEVER buying a car that updates, OTA or not. I have seen too many examples of features being enshittified or outright removed... or even worse, hiding defects. The Range Rover Evoque had an issue where water would be able to get into the combustion chamber or somesuch nonsense so they prevented the 4th cylinder from firing and messed with the timing and such with the other 3 cylinders to create almost as much power as the 4 cylinders themselves did previously. A simple rubber boot would have solved the

    • Another reason why I will not buy a new car.

  • The wrong way to go about compliance (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    There are all kinds of reasons a car could be turned off for 45 days or longer.

    This is a policy you could apply in a production tech environment, but applying this type of timeline for a product people keep at home is insane.

    • The warranty is voided, they don't turn off your car. That said, let's reverse it. If the OTA borks the car, is gm going to refund the purchase price?

      • Re:The wrong way to go about compliance (Score:4, Insightful)

        by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:13PM (#65561580)

        they don't turn off your car

        I think the PP was implying that the cars owner might park it for 45 days. Is their telemetry always on?

        On a related note: There's no cell phone coverage where I keep my car. If I don't come in to town within 45 days, what then?

        • Ah, yes, I read it wrong. 45 days isn't crazy long if you go on a long vacation as an example. Worse, if you were planning on being gone that long, you might turn off telemetry so the battery doesn't run dead. I still would like the "deal" to be symmetrical though. gm screws my car, gm bought it back full price. And I'd apply the rule to any car maker since OTA is common now. If I take it to the dealer for service and they bork it, they are on the hook to fix it. Why not OTA if they brick it?
          • In addition to long vacation you could have a summer home / winter home combination and fly over and leave the car parked in another area / state ("sun and snow birds"). A third thing would also be you end up for a few months in the hospital (including but not limited due to a automotive injury).

        • Re:The wrong way to go about compliance (Score:5, Funny)

          by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Saturday August 02, 2025 @12:37AM (#65561860)

          There's no cell phone coverage where I keep my car. If I don't come in to town within 45 days, what then?

          We see you are driving with Firmware 4.02c, Friend Citizen, but this is a Firmware 4.03 Highway. Please report to your nearest termination center immediately. Thank you for your co-operation.

        • Telemetry always on.

          Yes ANOTHER reason to not buy their piece of shit cars.

          • This seems to be natural progression. Its like the Mythical Man Month, where the 2.0 version is overengineered because the engineers have all the time to add in stuff that they didn't have for 1.0. At some point there were peak cars, where the engineering was optimal. After something has been designed, then all the bugs ironed out, the engineers keep going but not for the consumer. Cost cutting then happens, which consumers don't benefit from. Or they add on emissions type stuff, which adds complexity, part

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by sd4f ( 1891894 )

              I tend to think that around 2015, we hit a turning point where increasing numbers of automotive manufacturers started to cram in junk that few are really asking for. The engineering may not have been optimal, as the auto industry is very broad, and there's always some shuffling around as to who's making a decent reliable and low cost of ownership vehicle at the time. Some makers produce a dud after making something decent, others have learnt from their mistakes and iron out a few bugs that have tarnished th

            • Or they add on emissions type stuff, which adds complexity, parts that will fail 15 ears down the road (like that rusted EVAP canister under the rear bumper).

              I'm fine with it being illegal for you to dump noxious fumes into air I breathe.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Monoman ( 8745 )

          If you have no connectivity to the mother ship then how can they prompt you to install the update? Some folks will disconnect the radios to disable this 'feature'.

        • Then you can update it via USB instead. You have a car that has OTA updates, keep it in a place where there is no signal, and don't know this? Wasn't it in the manual?

      • Once a new OTA update becomes available, owners of GM vehicles have 45 days to install the update. After this date, the company will not cover any damages or issues that are caused by ignoring the update.

        That doesn't sound like they are voiding the warranty except for things caused by the failure to update. Once you update, even if after 45 days, the warranty would still be good since your failure to update earlier likely wouldn't be the cause of the problem.

  • OTA updates also means telemetry (Score:3)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:07PM (#65561562)
    My guess is that this move mostly about people opting out of telemetry and tracking and/or outright disabling data modules.

  • We've decided that in our best interests we'll not be responsible for issues directly caused by us after a period of 45 days from an arbitrary date decided upon by us (the date at which we've decided to pretend our latest buggy POS OTA is actually a fix for the issues we've caused).

    Sounds good to me!

    Amen brotha, I'm feeling that ... but it's it legally defensible?

  • Just another reason.... (Score:3)

    by LVSlushdat ( 854194 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:16PM (#65561590)

    Just another reason why I'd NEVER EVER buy a current model car.. Even if I was a millionaire, I'd keep driving my 10 year old car and keep fixing it when necessary. I suspect theres a growing number of people like me out there in fly-over land....

    • I suspect theres a growing number of people like me out there in fly-over land....

      I totally agree with you, though that is a stop-gap resistance measure. Eventually, we will have to be millionaires to afford the older cars.

      OTA updates should be seen as implicit acknowledgement that the vehicles are not road-worthy, and should be banned around the world.

      • It'll just be that the future generations of young people will be priced out of owning a car. Its already the case that there are no cheap cars anymore. Mostly due to high cost of repairs, and in our state, a strict vehicle inspection. 10-20 years ago there was a lot of variety in the cars you'd see, some junky rust buckets. Not anymore, even the cars in the trailer parks are newer. Car company execs must love that.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sinij ( 911942 )
      Had multiple cars for 20+ years, some daily drivers. Here is what typically happens.

      0- 3 warranty.
      3-6 usually no issues but consumables.
      8 - 10 suspension work, transmission fails unless maintained, some bushings fail.
      10-15 if there are design flaws, like CVTs or weak head gaskets, it happens in this period. Major consumables start to go - muffler, bearings, CVs. Unless car was maintained this is where it typically ends.
      15-20 more of the same, only parts become harder to get, but plenty of used parts. This

      • Ya, at the end of the day, parts availability eventually renders most cars to the bin.

        I've wondered if I could justify an non-obnoxious classic car, like an old Beetle or Porsche. Maybe a small block Chevy. Parts for restoration should be more accessible. Plus classic car.

        • Jeep Wrangler. Parts availability is obscenely good.

        • I don't think that's even true. I have multiple > 20 year old cars and parts are plentiful. Parts are even getting cheaper because of how they're selling hardly any of the parts because there aren't many of the cars. The reason cars are getting junked are people that don't do the work themselves aren't having them fixed. They take a car into a shop, get a $1500 estimate for xyz, say screw it, and go across the street to the car dealer and pay $x/month which is far less than the bill. The problem is servi

          • People have this attitude that they won't do the work.

            I'm not a car guy and have never done car work, but I've never really had a car to work on. I do do other things myself though, and I find a lot of tasks easy. I do have some kind of affinity for working with tools, I enjoy it and I pick it up easily. And I've had people to teach me on the way. After many years of biking around, and fixing problems, I'm at the stage where I can swap out a frame in about 4 hours (well maybe less now, after that experienc

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by kackle ( 910159 )
          Great nerds think alike. My 26-year old car is succumbing to the rust of our locale. I pondered it's replacement and the options are unappealing for differing reasons.

          Decades ago, I helped a friend retrieve a "non-obnoxious" 1964 Mustang from another state that she bought. The seller handed us a catalog that surprisingly seemed to have every part for the car (even radios, knobs, seats, plastics, etc.), manufactured as new, with the exception of the frame. It dawned on me that one could keep this car

      • My experience with my Jeep has been more or less the following:

        0-60,000 miles: Years 0-6
        Largely trouble-free. A few relatively minor repairs. Expected maintenance. I did replace springs and shocks, but because I wanted to upgrade to aftermarket parts, not necessity. Third set of tires at 60K miles.

        60000-104000 miles: years 6-13
        A few relatively minor repairs. Expected maintenance. A bunch of deferred maintenance with respect to the front suspension.

        104000 miles: Year 13
        Engine blew and took catalytic converte

        • 104000 miles: Year 13 Engine blew

          Jeeps are trash.

          Your opinion: exposed as being not worth much.

        • It's a 2007 Jeep Wrangler, so it will be a long time before parts availability is an issue.

          Is that specific to Jeep? I don't have much experience in this regard but I know other people for whom much less heavily driven vehicles aged out due to lack of parts. Might have been over 20 years though (and was a decade ago), but also might have been lack of a good mechanic.

          Engine blew and took catalytic converters with it.

          I think that's the point most people would tap out and get a replacement car.

          On the other ha

          • Is that specific to Jeep? I don't have much experience in this regard but I know other people for whom much less heavily driven vehicles aged out due to lack of parts.

            Yes, it is. The best I can describe it is that it is some combination of installed base, commonality of parts among model years and an insanely loyalty customer base. The Jeep Wrangler platform is supported by a huge quantity of third party vendors that cater to this market. You can buy COMPLETE BODIES for models that are 30, 40, 50 years old - for example.

            Engine blew and took catalytic converters with it.

            I think that's the point most people would tap out and get a replacement car.

            It was a close call and could have gone either way. It sat for a year before I made a decision. The value of selling it "as is" vs its value of what it

            • Yes, it is. The best I can describe it is that it is some combination of installed base, commonality of parts among model years and an insanely loyalty customer base. The Jeep Wrangler platform is supported by a huge quantity of third party vendors that cater to this market. You can buy COMPLETE BODIES for models that are 30, 40, 50 years old - for example.

              OK, that explains it, well, half of it! Jeep don't IIRC have the best reputation for reliability, but if you can basically replace everything forever, an

              • It WAS very satisfying!

                On bikes...when I was a bike, I built one more or less from scratch. A guy had a huge pile of shit in his yard for some reason, and he let me have whatever I wanted from it. I managed to build a bike from the frame up with the parts I found there. I think all I had to buy new was tires. Bike was a piece of shit for sure, but for almost free, it was worth the price (:

                • On bikes...when I was a bike, I built one more or less from scratch. A guy had a huge pile of shit in his yard for some reason, and he let me have whatever I wanted from it.

                  There's a strange guy nearish to where I live with a huge pile of shit. He does charge for it though, but I managed to haggle him down over a frame from £400 to £30 (20? can't remember) if he removed all the bits I didn't want. It was a very strange experience. I got a new to me frame there when I busted the old o

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by sinij ( 911942 )

            I have a pair of barely worn smart yet comfortable shoes which I have for formal events which is now a less than yearly occurrence. I've had them a number of years, and I wasn't wearing them much pre-covid, then didn't touch them for about 4 years. Went to an event and towards the end the soles fell apart. Like, just disintegrated. They were made of some sort of urethane rubber foam and it had degraded and they just fell apart into chunks, leaving the internal structure exposed.

            Pick up a pair of Allen Edmonds with leather sole with a rubber traction pad glued to it. These can be repaired multiple times and last long time.

            • Super off-topic, but I had a similar experience with a pair of hiking boots. My understanding is, that urethane material can indeed experience a dry rot. And, anecdotally, it seems to be worse with shoes that sit idle for a while instead of being worn with some regularity.

            • It's an ecco pair. Super comfortable! This cobbler has already repeatedly resoled and reheeled several ecco boots I own. If I need another new pair at some point I shall look into those.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sinij ( 911942 )
          Jeeps are not known for reliability, so you shifted some items by about 5 years. At the same time, Jeep are so common and parts are so cheap that it isn't a big deal if you DIY.

      • Parts availability on new cars will be more difficult. Fewer aftermarket parts and one will be forced to buy them through dealers. Eventually the dealers will stop stocking the older parts and the owners will be screwed. Especially true with EVs.

    • I own a 2021 Alfa Romeo and it appears to be offline. The previous owner didn't spring for the navigation package and when I disconnected the battery to work on the brakes the time did not automatically set itself.

      • I own a 2021 Alfa Romeo and it appears to be offline.

        Friend of mine used to drive Alfa's, right until the time he heard the announcement "would the owner of XXXX please identify yourself to staff, your car is on fire". It was parked outside at the time and had been for several hours, switched off, everything cooled down.

    • My Jeep is 18 years old.

      I don't plan to ever replace it.

    • It really depends on the car. Friend of mine drives a BYD and has never had problems like the ones in TFA, presumably because the manufacturers see their current customers as future repeat customers, not cash cows.

      • see their current customers as future repeat customers, not cash cows.

        Just about every car owner I've talked to plans on selling their vehicle or trading it in, in a few years. The car mfg just has to make happy the first owner and get through the warranty period. I don't know if its still the case (seems like their ratings have dropped) but mfgs like Toyota are the exception that design a vehicle to last as long as possible. On the opposite end of the spectrum are mfgs like GM/Chevy. Where they'll try and save $5 but the cheaper part is sure to be junk and give problems down

        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 )

          Just about every car owner I've talked to plans on selling their vehicle or trading it in, in a few years.

          That's not surprising at the moment, once they've had a chance to drive anything recent with all of the automation available. When you can just let the car do most of the work for things like bumper-to-bumper traffic, motorway driving, etc, it's hard to go back to the endless manual slog of older cars. Presumably at some point things will plateau, if they haven't already, and people will be happy hanging onto ten-year-old vehicles again because there's no big incentive to upgrade, but ATM there is a big i

      • All car owners are cash cows.

    • Shitty GM policy is a reason to not buy any current car? Were you sleep posting on Slashdot?

    • Exactly. I take care of my cars and they take care of me. Both are over 30 years old and very reliable (Toyotas).
      I have no desire to buy a new car. If they fail, I'll buy a used car that doesn't have this crap.

    • My youngest car is over 20 years old now. I just can find anything similar for a reasonable price. Between powertrain and drivetrain issues, very few modern cars stack up and the ones that do, cost north of $300k. Just something basic, like requiring a minimum of 1hp and1ft/lb torque for every 10 pounds of weight. AWD is like speaking the Devil's own tongue when you mention it anywhere south of the 40th parallel.

  • Not a problem (Score:3)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:37PM (#65561636)

    I was never considering purchasing a Buick or Tesla in the first place. I'll keep my 2010 vehicle with manual transmission and no telemetry.

  • My car starts with a hand crank. All you suckers with 12V batteries be damned, 6V 1890s electronics 4 lyfeee. Really though fuck the lazy ass car makers of today.

  • This is a great way to tell me you don't want me to buy your piece of shit vehicles.

    Not offering CarPlay in all new models also works.

    But no fear. After unloading the piece of shit GM vehicle that we had until recently, there has been no chance of me ever buying another GM vehicle anyway.

  • I hope Toyota release an update for their anti-lock braking system soon, and all owners install it.

    Tyre detaches from rim, anti-lock braking system prioritises stability over braking, driver dies [bbc.co.uk]

    A woman who died in a crash on the M25 in a "terrifying situation" was unable to stop in time as an anti-locking system reduced her car's braking effect, a coroner has said.

    "The brakes did not work effectively because when the brake pedal was pressed, the vehicle's anti-locking braking system was activated, and it o

  • I don't mind the concept of OTA updates (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Saturday August 02, 2025 @06:15AM (#65562108)

    I like the idea that the manufacturer can find and fix a bug without a trip to the dealer. I also like that the manufacturer has the ability to add new features and update things like navigation maps at no additional cost or (again) the hassle of making a dealer visit.

    Do I like the fact that I can be "tracked"? Not really, but I have resigned myself to trading that lack of privacy for the ease of getting updates. If the day comes where I'm no longer OK with that trade, I'll get a classic car, stock up on consumable parts, and call it a day.

    • I like the idea that the manufacturer can find and fix a bug without a trip to the dealer. I also like that the manufacturer has the ability to add new features and update things like navigation maps at no additional cost or (again) the hassle of making a dealer visit.

      Agreed. But I don't like the idea that the manufacturer can introduce new bugs, whether with or without a trip to the dealer. I also don't like that the manufacturer has the ability to remove existing features and update things like navigation maps from no additional cost to monthly subscription fee required. I'll also pass on changing privacy policies so they can now sell my driving telemetry data to anyone who will pay them (insurance companies, advertisers, etc...) They used to sell the data before

  • I suspect not...

    But the court case could be significant, if GM is held liable for shipping products with software faults that cause significant accidents/vehicle damage, let alone injuries. Anything that moves us towards increased liability for vendors shipping buggy (and insecure) software is A Good Thing, in my view.

  • Ford had an issue where the cam phasers weren't getting enough oil and would go out. A very expensive repair. They created an ECU update to help mitigate it. If customers didn't have the update after a certain period of time they would not warranty the cam phaser repair.

    Ask me how I know? It took two months of haggling with Ford to get a $3000 repair to fix my truck that was still UNDER WARRANTY.

    Mike

    • I would consider installing software updates that prevent known future failures part of common user maintenance.. No different than lube or oil. The blame there goes both ways. I have a Ford, they do mail and notify your of available updates - to a fault - ignore them at your own future inconvenience.

      • I would consider installing software updates that prevent known future failures part of common user maintenance.. No different than lube or oil. The blame there goes both ways. I have a Ford, they do mail and notify your of available updates - to a fault - ignore them at your own future inconvenience.

        When I can get software updates from the local oil change place we can talk. When Ford has to do it, and there's mandatory drive to town and a 5 hour wait... no thanks.

  • Last time I bought a GM car was 1967. Have not missed them since.

  • My 2021 Chevy Bolt has OTA updating capability but it has never worked. Yes, the update capability is in the "infotainment" system, and I believe it uses the 3G cell network, but it has never worked nor have I heard of a 2017-2021 Chevy Bolt owner who has successfully used it. As far as I know, you must go to a Chevy dealer and have them update the software onsite.

  • My dad has a late-model Ford Fusion. We've had chronic problems with updates not installing. In fact, he got so fed up with the update starting but not completing, he took it to the dealership to have them do it. They couldn't get it to work, either. No joke, we had to just keep trying again and again until it worked, which took a few weeks.

    Each update attempt takes about an hour, and the engine must be running the whole time to keep the battery from going flat, so you can only effectively install the u

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