Vivaldi Browser Doubles Down On Gen AI Ban 17
Vivaldi CEO Jon von Tetzchner has doubled down on his company's refusal to integrate generative AI into its browser, arguing that embedding AI in browsing dehumanizes the web, funnels traffic away from publishers, and primarily serves to harvest user data. "Every startup is doing AI, and there is a push for AI inside products and services continuously," he told The Register in a phone interview. "It's not really focusing on what people need." The Register reports: On Thursday, Von Tetzchner published a blog post articulating his company's rejection of generative AI in the browser, reiterating concerns raised last year by Vivaldi software developer Julien Picalausa. [...] Von Tetzchner argues that relying on generative AI for browsing dehumanizes and impoverishes the web by diverting traffic away from publishers and onto chatbots. "We're taking a stand, choosing humans over hype, and we will not turn the joy of exploring into inactive spectatorship," he stated in his post. "Without exploration, the web becomes far less interesting. Our curiosity loses oxygen and the diversity of the web dies."
Von Tetzchner told The Register that almost all the users he hears from don't want AI in their browser. "I'm not so sure that applies to the general public, but I do think that actually most people are kind of wary of something that's always looking over your shoulder," he said. "And a lot of the systems as they're built today that's what they're doing. The reason why they're putting in the systems is to collect information." Von Tetzchner said that AI in browsers presents the same problem as social media algorithms that decide what people see based on collected data. Vivaldi, he said, wants users to control their own data and to make their own decisions about what they see. "We would like users to be in control," he said. "If people want to use AI as those services, it's easily accessible to them without building it into the browser. But I think the concept of building it into the browser is typically for the sake of collecting information. And that's not what we are about as a company, and we don't think that's what the web should be about."
Vivaldi is not against all uses of AI, and in fact uses it for in-browser translation. But these are premade models that don't rely on user data, von Tetzchner said. "It's not like we're saying AI is wrong in all cases," he said. "I think AI can be used in particular for things like research and the like. I think it has significant value in recognizing patterns and the like. But I think the way it is being used on the internet and for browsing is net negative."
Von Tetzchner told The Register that almost all the users he hears from don't want AI in their browser. "I'm not so sure that applies to the general public, but I do think that actually most people are kind of wary of something that's always looking over your shoulder," he said. "And a lot of the systems as they're built today that's what they're doing. The reason why they're putting in the systems is to collect information." Von Tetzchner said that AI in browsers presents the same problem as social media algorithms that decide what people see based on collected data. Vivaldi, he said, wants users to control their own data and to make their own decisions about what they see. "We would like users to be in control," he said. "If people want to use AI as those services, it's easily accessible to them without building it into the browser. But I think the concept of building it into the browser is typically for the sake of collecting information. And that's not what we are about as a company, and we don't think that's what the web should be about."
Vivaldi is not against all uses of AI, and in fact uses it for in-browser translation. But these are premade models that don't rely on user data, von Tetzchner said. "It's not like we're saying AI is wrong in all cases," he said. "I think AI can be used in particular for things like research and the like. I think it has significant value in recognizing patterns and the like. But I think the way it is being used on the internet and for browsing is net negative."
Transfer of power (Score:2)
With any change comes a transfer of power. That is the message that is continuously bombarded onto the employees by companies and their leadership. The practically hysterical gobble over "Everything in AI, AI in everything!" by its zealots is such a change.
Just like Google bent Altavista over the proverbial barrel and had its way with it, power was transferred. The dot.com bubble, that was another one of those power transfers.
AI is nothing else but another transfer. And with each transfer, we (the public) t
Re: (Score:3)
power over what?
It's easy to say something is nothing more than a transfer of power when "transfer of power" doesn't mean anything. AI is about a lot more than a "transfer of power" this power only matters to those that deliver it.
Is pumping oil out of the ground "nothing more than a transfer of" energy? Or perhaps does it have consequences?
Re:Transfer of power (Score:5, Informative)
Power over us. I have also noticed the big AIs are notorious in filtering unorthodox content before it gets to out screen. A most sinister development.
Great! (Score:4, Interesting)
This is almost as important as maintaining manifest V2 support. Stop at Chromium 138.
Re: (Score:1)
At least vivaldi and brave kept it AFAIK. Probably others also.
But the problem is that manifest v2 add ons are mostly no longer actively developed because mainline chrome no longer supports them. Also they're being removed or have been removed from chrome add on store.
Re: (Score:2)
And end up like palemoon with an outdated fork of a rendering engine, which doesn't work with modern websites? The web is moving fast, in 2 Years the 138 engine will be a reason why most people won't use your browser.
Re: Great! (Score:1)
I've loved Vivaldi since its inception, but I'll have to religate it to my 'other browser' once they move to Manifest v3. Their built-in blockers just don't do the trick. I hope Firefox and its derivatives get something like workspaces. I'll miss having a browser that I can make do exactly what I want...easily.
A honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Would someone enlighten me why the fvck a browser could need generative AI?
Re:A honest question (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine that you're reading the web.
Suddenly, your small government decides there are things on the web that you don't need to know.
Imagine now dealing with this the old, 1984 way. You need a yuge ministry of BEST PEOPLE to change and synchronize all stories, delete all traces, etc.
Hard, expensive, error-prone.
But think about how a degenerative AI can solve this.
Instructions are constantly updated while you browse, and the new, improved content is degenerated on the fly, emotionally tailored to your profile and therefore very persuasive.
Also, cheap, because you'll pay for most of the required infrastructure.
What's not to like?
Re: (Score:2)
To do some text processing. Firefox can generate key points for websites in their link preview. The reader mode could generate a summary, tags, or an automatic estimation of reading time. You could have grammar checking instead of just spell checking in text input fields, functions to detect text that looks like spam or phishing and much more. Everything that needs text transformation or classification works very well with LLM. Just don't think they are an encyclopedia or calculator.
Good for them !!!! (Score:2)
Thank God (Score:4, Insightful)
How and why? (Score:2)
A browser already has access to every website you visit and every value of every form-fill. How would using AI in the browser enable collecting more information? What information?
And a browser is supposed to go to whatever URL I specify and render the site. How can it control what I se
Re: (Score:2)
And a browser is supposed to go to whatever URL I specify and render the site. How can it control what I see?
It seems you're trying to access the web site xxx.yyy , Dave. Unfortunately, I can't allow that. This site is present in your government's list of crimethink resources. I'm notifying the local police for your own safety. Have a nice day.
Re: (Score:2)
Yet another reason to love Vivaldi (Score:2)
As if I needed another reason to have it as my daily-driver for almost ten years. Glad to hear they'll continue to do the sane, intelligent thing.
"If people want to use AI as those services, it's easily accessible to them without building it into the browser."
Exactly.